A "safe" way to use flash photography for wedding

[David_Hughes]

Hi, firtly I'd just like to say how informative I have found this forum. I set my business up only 6 months ago and it has been invaluable to me - thanks !

I have an issue however concerning inconsistent results when I use my 1ds and 500ex for flash photography at weddings. I have to admit to trying to use the flash as little as possible (mainly cos I cant use the damn thing and it scares me rigid!!) but also because I try to use fast lenses and higher iso to give the image more of a "feel". This process has worked fine for me during the first few months of my set-up as Ive been photographing weddings in the sunny english summertime (ok perhaps not too sunny but good enough for little flash use). I have a wedding next weekend at a very small country hotel, havng been there I know its flash territory as its going to be dusk by the time I'll have the opportunity for any formal portraits and its a very traditional looking place with oak panelled walls, open fires, etc - and no doubt the occassional christmas tree already !

I know its a very generic question but Im looking for a set-up that is particularly "safe" for flash photography in this area. I usually shoot on AV for convenience - should I just stick with this - Im looking for something thats going to give me natural lighting of the couple but still give me background detail.

Any help would be greatly appreciated ! ... and thanks again for a great forum.
David

www.davidhughesphotography.co.uk

[David_Hughes]

apologies - its the 550 ex speedlite I'm using ! ... not a 500 ex !!!

[dhbailey]

Can you go there before the wedding, with a friend to stand in for the couple, and experiment? I wouldn't feel at all comfortable doing what you're attempting without having practiced first (I'm not a pro, though, but I thought I would chip in with my ideas anyway) and had a chance to see the results on my computer and print them out to be sure of my entire workflow for such a situation.

I would think you would need more than just the on-camera flash to get good results in a room as you describe it. Maybe a second flash on a bracket, aimed as a bounce flash while your main flash is aimed more straight-on?

Is there a way (this might show just how non-professional I am) to take pictures of the rooms entirely empty, and then in PhotoShop (or whatever processing software you use) combine the detail you would have in such shots with the flash pictures of the wedding party and guests, in order to get the detail that will be lost in shadow if you're not careful using your flash.

If I'm totally wrong with these suggestions, I apologize and will crawl back under my non-professional rock and await answers from real Pros.

[phili1]

I am not sure about the 550 Ex but with the 420EX I use manual exposure , set my F stop F5.6, the Camera keeps the flash duration on until the exposure is right. You can then set your shutter speed to give you the background. 1/30 - 1/60 will include the background. If you go any slower you will get ghosting. You can adjust the EV for room size. The only other option you have is Program mode and adjust EV to suit.

Oh also you need and off Camera flip mount or you will get killer shadow on the verticals.

If you have a hand meter it will help you balance the shot, you set the flash as close to that reading as you can.

Indoors if you want background, you need a slave unit if you want your backgrounds exposed as well.

The advice you got about practice shots are good, with digital you can see what you get and adjust.

[phili1]

I shoot my 80% of my flash pictures at 1/60 to 1/90 of a sec. No Camera shake the flash duration is so fast it frezzes the subject.

F 5.6 was for general shooting and your right for groups f 8 is more desirable but muses up batteries fast. So bring extras.

With digital you do not need soft focus, you can do it with Photoshop. With Photoshop you can almost duplicate all filters.

Oh I used to shoot Weddings with a Hasselblad and flash sync was up to 1/500 of a sec because it was a leaf shutter. But my Nikon had a fast flash sync of 1/90 of a sec. whic was used for candids.

He asked how he could balance with the interior lights and that can''t be done at 1/125 of a second, 1/30 to 1/60 is best. The only problem with 1 /30 is ghosting if you are not careful.

[David_Hughes]

Thanks for all your help with this issue guys, its greatly appreciated. I've been doing some practice work with 125th at f8 and 5.6 and I like the balance of ambient and flash this gives together with sufficient depth of field.... if I can go to 90th without shake I'll try that too. I've just bought an off camera mount that will assist with the portrait shots (I cant completely eradicate shadow but much better than on camera results)

[phili1]

Well I shoot about 80% of my flash pictures at 1/60th and I can blowe up my pics to 13 x 19 on my printer.

Flashes fire at 1/500 to 1/5000 of a second depending on the unit, that stops the action but if you move the camera to soon you can get ghosting.

Now the Mamiya has a differnt exposure shutter system like the haselblad. I had to wait for the secondary shutter to close before I moved the camera, that could be the culprit, but it is possable to do it.

If you want to include the interior ambient lighting then he will have to do that.

I had thje same battrery system, it could last for 2 weddings. Now you can buy a $99 battery pack for the prosumer cameras but for SLR's it cost you $400 +.

This pic was taken at 1/90 at F4

http://www.pbase.com/phili1/image/34856769/medium.jpg

[phili1]

If you read my earlier post I agreed with you on the group shots and I said it was a good candid setting.

There is no general rule but if you want the existing lighting to be part of it it is the only way I know to do it.

Most of my wedding shots were at F8 to F 11 unless I wanted the existing light to be part of it, and I think that was his original request.

I am not arguing with you, I agree with you but I answerewd his request unless I read it wrong.

[donhdefl]

Re: photo enlargement. There are ways to avoid the inferior digital enlargement function provided by many digital cameras. There is a product called Imagener. You can read about how it surpasses the digital interpolation techniques provided by Photoshop at http://photoenlargement.imagener.com. Hope this helps! -dh

[brunzie]

If you have the money, get an Alien Bees flash for formals and put it up about 9-10 feet over your head for formals. Use a zoom and you'll nver have to move. NO shadows and the back ground is well lit. I use this at every wedding and I do about 20 a year. I trigger mine with a pocket wizard but you can use the pc cord. After a couple of test shots, you have the exposure for all formal shots....no shadows on vertical or horizontal shots.

[David_Hughes]

hi guys, just thought I'd include an example of the images from the wedding, bounced the flash and shot at f8 for reasonable dof ....quite pleased with the results. What do you think ?
cheers David

[David_Hughes]

sorry - unable to post as attachment too big ... even at reduced image size.

[dlhedg]

I have a Digital Rebel and plan to buy a canon 580 flash this week. I am shooting with a tamron 28-75 2.8 lens. I Have a brother that is wanting me to shoot his wedding do you all fill this equipment will be sufficent.

Thanks
Dan H

[brunzie]

Bloo Dog.......I do employ an assistant, better known as my wife. She's good and works cheap! We do a majority of our formals two hours before the ceremony, so we have some time to put our stuff away and go get some pre-wedding candids. Most of our reprints are from the formals. It seems like everyone wants the "photojournalistic approach" but when we analyze the money for reorders, the candids make up a much lower percentage than the posed pictures. If I were you, I would hire some one to help you....a good high school student would work for cheap and you wouldn't have to worry about getting out of the church quickly with two people. Add $50 to your package and you've paid for your help. I would stop doing wedding photography if I didn't have an assistant...its too much work and stress. My so called studio lighting is very simple and can be used for all formals. I use on-board flashes for candids. We take about 45 minutes for the formals. I go shoot candids while my assistant puts stuff away. Works well for us and we've done 30 years worth of weddings.

[KennyG]

I have a Digital Rebel and plan to buy a canon 580 flash this week. I am shooting with a tamron 28-75 2.8 lens. I Have a brother that is wanting me to shoot his wedding do you all fill this equipment will be suficient.

To be honest Dan, no. Fine if you are taking casual shots and they have employed the services of a pro, but not good enough if you are the only photographer. You would be better off telling him that you will do some candid shots and stuff outside the main venues, but he should pay a pro to do the main work. It is a once in a lifetime event and you can't afford to take chances.

Think about it, what happens if the flash or camera develops a fault mid-ceremony. Do you reach in your bag for the spare? Do you have a spare? And the list goes on...

[brunzie]

Good advice....kennyg

[jhankins]

I'm with you Brunzie. PJ is in but the formals are still the expected. I've not brought my Bees with me as yet. I assume you use the battery pack? My wife is also my assistant and I too wouldn't do a wedding without one. Really takes stress off and creates the opportunity for more pictures or not missing moments while I have my eye in the viewfinder, she pops me into play elsewhere if needed. :)

Jim

[dpp]

Hello

Have to agree with Bloo Dog. Studio lighting for me is impossible. I work alone and only occassionly employ the help of another photographer if the wedding is a very large affair.

My clients do not want the really posed photographs shot with studio lighting, but I guess thats why they booked me, if you show your portfolio with a load of posed shots in it and the client likes it then fine. I guess what I am saying is that there are thankfully all sorts of tastes out there , so if you use lights fine, if not fine as well.

On a slightly different note, I attended a wedding this weekend, obviously I was watching hiom like a hawk to see his style etc, he was very good and when i got chatting with him I was amazed to discover that he shot the whole thing on "P".
The guy soes 50+ weddings a year all on P!!!!!

No light system just a 550EX, I must say though his composition was fantastic for the formals. I guiess thats another debate though the use of "P"

[dlhedg]

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. Is the equipment that i have appropriate even though the situation, and my abilities my not be. Thanks so much for he advice.

thank
dan h

[David_Hughes]

I dont think he's the only one thats uses "P" for professional ! .... I used to use P religiously but got caught out on occassion with strong backlighting, etc. I'm an AV convert at present and use this function 80% of the time - seems to do the trick for me in most cases - just need to be aware of Depth of Field on group shots, portraits, etc. I'm new to the game however so early days but enjoying my new life behind a lense as opposed to a desk shuffling paper !

[brunzie]

Bloo Dog.....send me your email address and I'll send you some of our wedding shots. I am having a web site being built for me but it is not done at this time. Brian

[Ferdinand]

If you like to look at some examples of a 20D + Flash Bracket + 550EX wedding sample, here they are http://www.ferdinandphotography.com (still building the site up) but all the photos you see there is of this combo. Hope this give you and idea of how good/how bad things will be with this combination.

Best regards,
Ferdinand

[KarinaS]

Bloo Dog,
I am a real novice - am I assuming correctly that you can use the camera on F8 @125th sec with flash on (and tweaking power levels?) no matter what lighting is in the church, dark or bright and the picture will turn out spot on? Sorry, as I say I'm a novice and am trying to get my head around this. Cheers, Karina
Quote "Ninety percent of my handheld, indoor wedding camera work was shot at 1/125 sec at f8 with a 35-105mm zoom (on 100 ASA film). This is the "safe" setting because it will allow for a good depth of field for group shots."

[Andy_T]

If I were you, I would hire some one to help you....a good high school student would work for cheap and you wouldn't have to worry about getting out of the church quickly with two people. Add $50 to your package and you've paid for your help. I would stop doing wedding photography if I didn't have an assistant...

Nah, that would be a waste.

If you ever decide to shoot a wedding again, Bloo Dog, make sure to put an advert on the forum here looking for an assistant (e.g. right under CharlesU's workshop information).

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found dozens of possible assistants who would be willing to pay *you* money to take them along.

Unfortunately, I don't live in the US :lol:
But if you go shoot Claires wedding in Sweden, be sure to drop a line :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[KarinaS]

Another dumb question, How can I check that it emits F8 automatically at all distances?
I have a Canon A2E and 540ez flash as well as a 420ez flash
Cheers, Karina

[Moments]

To be honest Dan, no. Fine if you are taking casual shots and they have employed the services of a pro, but not good enough if you are the only photographer. You would be better off telling him that you will do some candid shots and stuff outside the main venues, but he should pay a pro to do the main work. It is a once in a lifetime event and you can't afford to take chances.

Think about it, what happens if the flash or camera develops a fault mid-ceremony. Do you reach in your bag for the spare? Do you have a spare? And the list goes on...

KennyG,

I can't agree with you more. This is hopefully a once in a lifetime event (I did shoot a Brides 2nd and 3rd wedding) and should not be discounted when it comes to the only thing that is left the next day, the photos!! People doing weddings on the cheap tear down and cheapen our buisness. I saw it happen in the commercial photography buisness, with photogs undercutting just to get the job. But then again, If the couple are willing to trade off a pro with pro results for some one who is not, they get and deserve what they will pay for. In a nut shell, they would not be my type of client.

[mgbeach]

If you like to look at some examples of a 20D + Flash Bracket + 550EX wedding sample, here they are http://www.ferdinandphotography.com (still building the site up) but all the photos you see there is of this combo. Hope this give you and idea of how good/how bad things will be with this combination.

Nice site and great shots, Ferdinand. Which flash bracket do you find most usable? Also, do you normally shoot in Manual or Av mode (and how bout some general settings while you're at it!:))

thanks,

Michael