Sidearm mechanics - baseball

[pigtailpat]

Just got permission of the parent to post.

I'm working with a different group of kids this year in little league on my son's team. I was a little ataken aback by one particular kid, who's a rightie, but pitches with a very weird sidearm type pitch. He's really tough to catch in the classic-type pitcher pose.

To get an idea of his mechanics, see below:

#1

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/pigtailpat/_MG_0025.jpg

then #2

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/pigtailpat/_MG_0026-1.jpg

#3

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/pigtailpat/_MG_0053.jpg

and

#4
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/pigtailpat/_MG_0054.jpg

with this kind of weird pitching, what kind of timing and strategy is involved?

Thanks.

Pat

[Cameralensrentals]

Nothing wrong with his release. Thats pretty natural to get that kind of shot. It looks awkward, but is actually natural.
Nothing really sidearm about his pitching style.
Looks pretty over the top.

[bigjon0107]

Just try to get some shots with the ball in the frame. Maybe try a side view as well.

[pigtailpat]

Bijohn - that's a great idea! If I know a kid pitches in a weird sidearm type of mechanic, which side should I be on, the side that has the ball in hand - or - the opposite side?

Cameralens - you should see this kid pitch. I know I'm female and not very knowledgeable about the ins and outs of baseball, not having played myself, but you should see his delivery. Maybe you can't see it from the photos I posted, but this is definitely a different type of delivery than I am used to seeing.

Pat

[MJPhotos24]

I was a side-armer and still work with a lot of pitchers as a coach who all have diff. arm slots, but this doesn't look like he is one...and it sure don't look "normal" either. It actually looks like pretty bad mechanics just by looking at his strike foot and the pressue you can see he's putting on his shoulder. Why his hand is facing out as much as it shows in these is strange as well...it's not the easiest to tell from these as it doesn't show his whole delivery but something just doesn't look right to me.

[Cameralensrentals]

I was a side-armer and still work with a lot of pitchers as a coach who all have diff. arm slots, but this doesn't look like he is one...and it sure don't look "normal" either. It actually looks like pretty bad mechanics just by looking at his strike foot and the pressue you can see he's putting on his shoulder. Why his hand is facing out as much as it shows in these is strange as well...it's not the easiest to tell from these as it doesn't show his whole delivery but something just doesn't look right to me.

As a catcher all the way through college and MJ Im sure you can attest..I think he has either Rob Dibble or Mitch Williams syndrome. Really leaning the opposite way to get that extra whip at the end. One thing for certain he is short arming the ball. No follow though at all. I would guess the kid throws pretty hard for his age. What would you say Pigtail?
Either way any 10-12 year olds mechanics are going to look bad. You can teach them to throw, but mechanics can be taught and taught and not picked up on until late teens.

[pigtailpat]

I would guess the kid throws pretty hard for his age. What would you say Pigtail?

Yes! He expends so much energy releasing the ball - he's tremendous. This is not normal pitch mechanics that I am used to seeing with kids this age, which really surprised me, given his age. I may be wrong calling it sidearm, but it's not the norm.

I'm not giving up. I'll try a couple of side shots with this particular kid to see if that helps.

I have to run, have a girl night with a friend. Catch up later guys!

[MJPhotos24]

As a catcher all the way through college and MJ Im sure you can attest..I think he has either Rob Dibble or Mitch Williams syndrome. Really leaning the opposite way to get that extra whip at the end. One thing for certain he is short arming the ball. No follow though at all. I would guess the kid throws pretty hard for his age. What would you say Pigtail?
Either way any 10-12 year olds mechanics are going to look bad. You can teach them to throw, but mechanics can be taught and taught and not picked up on until late teens.

When you break down a guy like Dibble or Williams the key aspects are there (oh how I used to want to pitch like Mitch - even after Joe Carter!) though they had that lil' extra. Every player has little things that some view as not fundamentaly right (like Dontrelle's leg kick when he got to the bigs was questioned big time) but like I said the key aspects are there, except the rare guys who you sit there and ask "how the heck is he doing that".

I honestly do not agree on "any" kids mechanics though; can they repeat them on a regular basis, yea right! HOWEVER, they can learn the basics - in fact that's the most important thing LL coaches need to teach around 10+, just throwing strikes with proper form. Anything younger probably not pitching (maybe 9?) anyways. The group I have now with the high school I coach I started at 11/12/13 and they've been pitching all that time learning the right way since day one. They got it back then, no reason they shouldn't.

[Big K]

HOWEVER, they can learn the basics - in fact that's the most important thing LL coaches need to teach around 10+, just throwing strikes with proper form.

Agree 100%. In my opinion, muscle memory is one of the most important things for a successful pitcher as they get older and the only way to gain it is through proper form from the very beginning.

[MJPhotos24]

Agree 100%. In my opinion, muscle memory is one of the most important things for a successful pitcher as they get older and the only way to gain it is through proper form from the very beginning.

Give you $20 to tell my players about muscle memory! ha. I used to "train" in my bedroom hitting, just going through the steps slowly - why because I believe in muscle memory and not that you need to actually hit to hit (make sense?) I mention muscle memory to them and they look at me like I'm speaking a foreign language! I tell the coaches below me about they need it from day one to succeed and they either fully agree or think "oh you can teach them later" - you know how hard it is to correct bad mechanics? They're used to the bad way, it's not easy.

That's the free lesson to all youth coaches, n I usually charge $250 for lessons :lol:

[khaz]

Why would the kids of today "train" in their room, when they can play the game on Playstation? These kids have the best thumb-eye coordination you can find.

As far as these photos are concerned, 1,2 and 3 look like the mechanics are fine. 4 looks like he has already passed where he was in #2, and is simply finishing his delivery (based on where the foot is in the pictures). That is what that funny move with the wrist might be. The big thing that kids this age need is just arm strength. They pull the head out to the side to allow the arm to come through, and as they get older that should stop. In looking at a pitcher, the shoulders should be level to the ground, along with the eyes. Other than that, his delivery looks like it works.

I agree with seeing some shots from the side. Would like to see what the hand position is out of the glove, and behind him before he throws.

[MJPhotos24]

Why would the kids of today "train" in their room, when they can play the game on Playstation? These kids have the best thumb-eye coordination you can find.

As far as these photos are concerned, 1,2 and 3 look like the mechanics are fine. 4 looks like he has already passed where he was in #2, and is simply finishing his delivery (based on where the foot is in the pictures). That is what that funny move with the wrist might be. The big thing that kids this age need is just arm strength. They pull the head out to the side to allow the arm to come through, and as they get older that should stop. In looking at a pitcher, the shoulders should be level to the ground, along with the eyes. Other than that, his delivery looks like it works.

I agree with seeing some shots from the side. Would like to see what the hand position is out of the glove, and behind him before he throws.

That's true...I was tryin to get a hold of a prospect I advise on some things for info I needed for a recruitment prospect form and never heard back from him - he blamed being too busy with video games that night. One good thing is the games are becoming more active for younger kids and that gets them up off there butts it seems, though not sure - I don't play them or have any interest in knowing about them...I do know though some Physical Education classes have "virtual" stuff that is active and video game like.

As for his mechanics being fine, I can point out way to many things I dont like to say they are fine - maybe I'm just looking to hard - but I see 3 or 4 major flaws. Personally I believe at his age (11?) the most important thing they need is proper form, not arm strength. You have to develop a pitcher (or any position for that matter) with proper techniques first, then add on strength training later - and even then it's a process of teaching the strength program properly and starting at the bottom of the latter and working your way up through proper form first and the arm strength comes with that.

[cargo123]

I like the photos where the pitcher is the only one in the picture. They have that baseball card effect. I think they are a bit underexposed, as the shadows are some what dark. Not that much though. I like the exposure in number 2. Nice job.

[pigtailpat]

I like the photos where the pitcher is the only one in the picture. They have that baseball card effect. I think they are a bit underexposed, as the shadows are some what dark. Not that much though. I like the exposure in number 2. Nice job.

Cargo -

Thanks. They look a little underexposed because I forgot to adjust the EC for the light jerseys (((((:::::: It was my first time shooting since last season, and this is one of those finer points I forgot to process in my noggin......;)

[khaz]

MJ, please don't get me wrong. When I refer to gaining arm strength, I am not expecting a 10 or 12 year old to start a strength program. I am talking about more throwing. The best way to strengthen the arm is to throw. I can appreciate what you do as a coach, as I have also worked with pitchers at the college level for 17 years. As for flaws in this delivery, from these photos, there is no way we can pick apart his throwing motion. He lands with with a good, strong position with his front foot, his arm pronates correctly when he releases. I can not see what it looks like when it comes out of the glove, nor when his foot lands to throw, but the mechanics of how his arm works are fine after release. As I said earlier, level out the head and shoulders, and you will have a motion that is proper.

I have a feeling the thumb may be in front of the ball when he gets ready to throw it, instead of underneath, and that is why the head is being pulled off to the side like it does. Also, he may be being told to get his arm up more than his body is capable of. If the elbow is level with the shoulder, and parallel to the ground, he will stay healthy for a long time. Not every pitcher throws "over the top". Look at Randy Johnson, Jake Peavy, and plenty more. The arm just works better from the side.

If you ever want to see if his arm is working properly, put a football in his hand. If he can throw a spiral, his arm works fine. Fix the head and shoulders and he is good to go.

[Gatorboy]

Just got permission of the parent to post.

None required.

He looks like he's throwing a screwball.

[pigtailpat]

None required.

He looks like he's throwing a screwball.

Gator -

I always ask the parent, because my son plays with these kids, my husband is coaching, and I think it is the right thing to do. Generally, the parents are by and large willing to let me post, because they understand that I am trying to learn by posting, and not exploiting the children for money or any other motive.

Regarding the screwball, can you explain that baseball term to me? What does it mean?

Pat

[Gatorboy]

Regarding the screwball, can you explain that baseball term to me? What does it mean?

It is spinning the ball opposite of a standard curve ball. A curveball thrown by a right-handed pitcher tails away from a right-handed batter -- a screwball will tail into a right-handed batter.

[khaz]

Gator, that is not actually a screwball that he is throwing. When throwing any ball straight (fastball, change-up, a football), the arm pronates in the deceleration process. This is the movement of rotating the hand counter-clockwise (in a right-hander). If you see a picture of a quarterback releasing and following through, you will see the same movement that you see in this young man.