Need new computer, which one? Help..

[johneric8]

I know Macs are great but I'm not going that route..
I have been running an Emachines with a 3200 amd processor with 2 gigs of Ram and it's way too slow. I have to wait a very long time for things to happen. It takes forever to save images, when I'm working in bridge and saving one file after the other it really starts to bog down quickly..

What in your opinion should I get to make CS3 and bridge run quickly?
I have used the PC for 4 years and the reason I have is because I used to have enough time to sit around and wait for it to respond but because of my workload I don't have as much time..

If I was to go to circuit city or best buy and purchase something at the store what things should I be looking for?

I really appreciate your help because I'm not at all up to date with computers like most guys on here..

Blessings and thanks so much!!

[Hermes]

1) Fast, multi-core processor
2) As much RAM as you can afford (limited to 4GB on a 32 bit system)
3) Several hard drives instead of one big one

Try to avoid Vista as it is a huge drain on resources. Don't waste money on an expensive graphics card - a very basic one is more than enough for photoshop's needs.

[Right Cranium Imaging]

Not saying you should go to Mac and that is the answer, just curious why it is not even an option? Unfamiliar, too much PC software, too expensive ? Dont worry I wont have a rebuttal, I am simply curious.

[Mark1]

I just got a Gateway, dont remember teh model -- im at work now--

It is crazy fast. I very commonly have photoshop running, with itunes in the background and with a web browser open, and it never even breaks a sweat.

People hateing new OS's happens every time. Remember when XP was introduced? Now the same people all want XP. Like it or not Vista is the future. By going with XP you are only putting a earlier expiration date on your computer. Once XP stops selling software companies will soon stop supporting it as well. So do yourself a favor and keep up with the times. It is a resorce hog, But really... big deal. It is not really a concern unless you are upgrading an old PC. And that is never really preferred.

[prime80]

If you're going to buy "off-the-shelf" at BB or CC, you're stuck with Vista, although that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Dunno if this link will work, but it's the BB desktop search with 4GB Ram and Intel Quad Core selected. Any of these systems should be more than adequate for a while...it just depends on how much you want to spend.

Click Here (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d3031 2d3031~~cabcat0500000%23%230%23%2311a~~cabcat05010 00%23%230%23%2329~~f118%7C%7C344742~~f551%7C%7C496 e74656cc2ae~~nf546%7C%7C496e74656cc2ae20436f726528 544d29322051756164&list=y&nrp=15&sc=abComputerSP&ks=960&usc=abcat0500000&sp=%2Bbrand+skuid&list=y&iht=n&st=processingtime%3A%3E1900-01-01)

[johneric8]

I have too much invested in software you are right!! Thanks guys for the info, if I get multiple hardrives can I just get one of those external hardrives for the second one?

[Right Cranium Imaging]

Like it or not Vista is the future. .

Just an FYI Microsoft has already projected a replacement for Vista in the near future.

[prime80]

I have too much invested in software you are right!! Thanks guys for the info, if I get multiple hardrives can I just get one of those external hardrives for the second one?

Yes

[Right Cranium Imaging]

I have too much invested in software you are right!! Thanks guys for the info, if I get multiple hardrives can I just get one of those external hardrives for the second one?


If possible I would get more than one internal HD. sATA is faster xfer rate than Firewire if I am not mistaken. That is the only issue with external drives. They are good for storage only, but if you are going to be frequently accessing the images, in my opinion internal HD is better.

[Hermes]

If possible I would get more than one internal HD. sATA is faster xfer rate than Firewire if I am not mistaken. That is the only issue with external drives. They are good for storage only, but if you are going to be frequently accessing the images, in my opinion internal HD is better.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'd say you should have a minimum of 3 internal hard-drives (ideally sATA) for a photoshop computer - one which holds the system and programs, one which holds your images, and one to use as a scratch disk. There's no point spending huge amounts of money on fast processors and RAM if your machine will be straining to run everything from one hard-drive.

[Mark1]

Just an FYI Microsoft has already projected a replacement for Vista in the near future.

Until XP Microsoft has been on about a 2 year cycle. So a replacement is NOT news. Im sure they were working on Windows 7 even before Vista made it out the door. And besides Windows 7 is not XP. It will most likley be Vista+ (what ever you want it call it). And the replacement for 7 will be started before 7 hits the market. All the more reason to keep up.

Besides Big Bill's mis-speak at the investors meating, Ill bet, was about beta testing. Not a retail ready OS.

[tim]

Dell, Intel Quad core, 2-4GB RAM, 2-3 SATA drives (with a big external backup drive(s), decent LCD monitor.

[johneric8]

Dell, Intel Quad core, 2-4GB RAM, 2-3 SATA drives (with a big external backup drive(s), decent LCD monitor.

Is this something I can order from Dell straight to my door?
Here is a dumb question- How do I allocate each feature to the individual hardrives? Is this easy to do?

When you say big external backup drives what do you mean? What is the difference between the SATA a external hardrive?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just not that into computers but I need something fast because my workload is crazy...

[Bobster]

eSATA is the fastest external method for the cost. you can buy external caddies for the HDD that have eSATA ports on, all new PC's should come with this feature..

SATA (serial ATA) is faster than PATA (Paralel ATA) because each connection from the motherboard goes direct to 1 HDD/DVD rather than having a ribbon cable that shared the connection.. eSATA is External Serial ATA :)

-- i've never seen a huge jump in speed when using a single drive as scratch vs having the 2nd fastest partition on a HDD set aside for Photoshop scratch --

[Mark1]

-- i've never seen a huge jump in speed when using a single drive as scratch vs having the 2nd fastest partition on a HDD set aside for Photoshop scratch --

Not second partition. Second physical drive.

[kevindar]

Tim is correct.
I have been building my own pc's, but bought a dell recently. They commonly have very good deals running. they had a quadcore deal with 2 gig of ram and a 500 gig hard drive for under 500. Do you have any friends/ cousins/ nephews who are somewhat computer savy? best buy and circuitcity are genrally not the best places to get your computer.

[neil_g]

another vote for dell over here too. theyre knocking out some great kit and deals recently..

[Bobster]

Not second partition. Second physical drive.
that's what i meant, i've not seen a huge jump in performance over using a 2nd partition than using a single drive for scratch..

unless you have over 32GB of RAM you'll never use more than say 14GB of space anyway (and i edit files that are 1.5-2GB in size)

[Hermes]

that's what i meant, i've not seen a huge jump in performance over using a 2nd partition than using a single drive for scratch..

unless you have over 32GB of RAM you'll never use more than say 14GB of space anyway (and i edit files that are 1.5-2GB in size)

Using a second partition on a single drive as a scratch disk will only increase seek times and slow your performance by forcing Photoshop to write to a specific area instead of wherever is quickest. Best just to leave it as a single partition.

As for using an extra physical drive as a scratch disk, I'd say it
gives a moderate increase in performance, though it made a bigger difference on my slower PCs. Given that a 20 or 40 gig hard-drive costs next to nothing nowadays it's definitely worth doing.

[johneric8]

Wow, lots of useful info you guys know your stuff! Do these things help to make the photos save faster to disk straight out of bridge? It's not uncommon for me to wait at least 20 seconds for one of my files to save as a Jpeg. Should I purchase three seperate eSata? So let me get this straight- My new PC from Dell should have ports on the back that plug directly into the multiple eSata? I'm sorry for sounding ignorant here it's just that I've never used this stuff, once I get familiar with it I'm sure I can figure it all out..

[samanan]

Another vote for Dell. Don't buy the slim Dells though. Buy the bigger machines. You will be able to add hard drives and memory later if you want. Also, make sure that you get the Core 2 Duo Intel processor not the Dual Core (there is a difference). If a Quad Core fits your budget, go for it. You can always buy more RAM later and add it in yourself (that is really easy).

For extra HDD, go for an internal hard drive. Installing an internal HDD is really not that difficult. There a bunch of websites out there that will walk you thru the steps with pictures. You'll be fine.

If you really need external hard drives, I've found that the Western Digital USB 2.0 drives are quite good. They are fast enough for me, but I use them for back up purposes only. I rarely work off them. And if I do, I use Picasa and that is fine.

There should be a bunch of USB ports available in the front and back in the Dells, you should be covered there.

Finally, you mentioned "bridge" a number of times in your posts. What do you mean by this term?

[johneric8]

Another vote for Dell. Don't buy the slim Dells though. Buy the bigger machines. You will be able to add hard drives and memory later if you want. Also, make sure that you get the Core 2 Duo Intel processor not the Dual Core (there is a difference). If a Quad Core fits your budget, go for it. You can always buy more RAM later and add it in yourself (that is really easy).

For extra HDD, go for an internal hard drive. Installing an internal HDD is really not that difficult. There a bunch of websites out there that will walk you thru the steps with pictures. You'll be fine.

If you really need external hard drives, I've found that the Western Digital USB 2.0 drives are quite good. They are fast enough for me, but I use them for back up purposes only. I rarely work off them. And if I do, I use Picasa and that is fine.

There should be a bunch of USB ports available in the front and back in the Dells, you should be covered there.

Finally, you mentioned "bridge" a number of times in your posts. What do you mean by this term?

Photoshop Adobe Bridge CS3 is what I'm talking about it.. I use this to make tweaks to my Raw files before I save them to Jpeg... I shoot lots of events and have an upwards of 1000 photos to go through so I hate having to wait for the PC to save them it takes forever.. ...

I wish they just made a PC that was ready to go...

[johneric8]

Okay guys, would this work? what do you think? what else would I need to add to help it be a photoshop dream?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8781703&type=product&id=1205026863692

[prime80]

Add a 1TB internal drive (there's only room for 1 more drive), and get a 1TB external drive for storage/backup and you should be all set. And get a Logitech G15 keyboard! I LOVE mine for PS. You can map scripts or keyboard shortcuts to single keys and it saves the hand cramps associated with things like Ctrl-Alt-Shift-S, etc.

[johneric8]

I called Dell and they said to get an XPS 420 quad core.. I mentioned getting some extra sATA's and they didnt understand why!! They said one 1TB and that would be all I need for Photoshop... I told them that you guys said otherwise.. No I'm confused.. LOL

[Mark1]

1T is more than enuf for photoshop!! But what about storage of all your shots and backups? This is where you really want the extra storage. It may seem like a lot....and it is. But a photographer will fill it rather quickley. I know of some fellow photog's that have multiple terabytes of storage. And are looking for more.

[johneric8]

1T is more than enuf for photoshop!! But what about storage of all your shots and backups? This is where you really want the extra storage. It may seem like a lot....and it is. But a photographer will fill it rather quickley. I know of some fellow photog's that have multiple terabytes of storage. And are looking for more.

Thanks for taking some time out to respond Mark.. Right now I'm storing everything on DVD and most likely will continue that trend.

Are you saying that I don't need a terabyte if I don't plan on storing a butt load of photos internally?

I keep hearing people say I need multiple drives to run CS3 & Bridge quickly is this absolutely the truth?

Let me give you an example where my computer falls short-
If I have 400 photos opened up in Bridge and I'm ready to save them as Jpegs only using the Bridge interface kind of like a batch save but not really because I just select all photos and save to hardrive..

I basically can't do much else while I'm waiting.. My PC basically runs very slow and I could never dream of opening another program..
It also takes forever to open the files up in photoshop after messing with them in Bridge...

I'm just trying to get the right equipment, I consider myself and good photographer but a terrible computer guy..

[prime80]

The extra drives aren't a "must have", but they are nice. I back up to DVD as well, but I also keep everything backed up on multiple hard drives. DVDs will fail over time, and once they do, you won't get your pictures back. I have an internal backup drive and an external backup drive. Anything I consider "must keep" goes on both drives. The only way I'm screwed is if both of them die at the same time, which is unlikely (barring a house fire or some other disaster). How anal you get about backups is strictly up to you, but for critical safety, DVDs are a pretty poor choice in the longevity dept. If you've got backups from more than 2-3 years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are already bad. I will just keep perpetually upgrading my backup drives as more capacity becomes available so that I always have two copies of everything I keep on both drives. The other benefit to multiple drives is to get everything off of the OS drive. If you stick with one drive, at least partition it so that Windows and your stored files are on different partitions. That way, when/if your windows partition dies, your files are safe in their own partition. You just format/reload the windows partition and you're good to go. Another benefit to multiple drives is you can put the Photoshop scratch disk on a separate drive from the PS program files. This will speed up PS a little bit. Not earth-shaking, but it does help.

[Mark1]

I agree multiple drives are not a requirement. But I do it for saftey in back up, not speed. If you have a new PC the speed you get will not be much. 2 drives thing started when drives were not the fast to begin with. 2 drives lets you read and write at the same time, rather than only read then write.....Bad example.... Old way-> read WRITE read WRITE read WRITE.......with 2 drives it can be rWeRaIdT ErWeRaIdT ErWeRaIdT E

To run a program quickley you need a fast processor and lots of ram. I allways max my ram. It is just a given. Disk space does help but not as much. Think of it this way... You need a library to hold all your information. But you can only work on what you can fit on your desk. It does not really matter that you have the Library of Congress next to you if you work slow on a small desk. However if you can work fast and have a big table you can get more done as you can keep more books where you need them. However as a help to the speed the library is ready.

You could run photoshop on a 20 gig drive if need be. But you want the space for breathing room and storage.But since memory is so cheep I say buy all you can afford. And in multiple drives. Such if you can afford 4 terrabytes get them in 500gig models rather than 1T ones. If one dies you will not lose as much.

With 400 files open...most are not in ram they are in the swap file on the drive that windows runs from. This is where the 2 drive example comes into play. Bridge must call back an image to ram to work on it then send the conversion to a drive. If it is pulling from one drive then writing to another it will go faster....see my above example.

Another hint on choosing a PC look at the FSB ( front side bus) this is the real bottlenect on a computer. The bigger the number the better.

[johneric8]

I agree multiple drives are not a requirement. But I do it for saftey in back up, not speed. If you have a new PC the speed you get will not be much. 2 drives thing started when drives were not the fast to begin with. 2 drives lets you read and write at the same time, rather than only read then write.....Bad example.... Old way-> read WRITE read WRITE read WRITE.......with 2 drives it can be rWeRaIdT ErWeRaIdT ErWeRaIdT E

To run a program quickley you need a fast processor and lots of ram. I allways max my ram. It is just a given. Disk space does help but not as much. Think of it this way... You need a library to hold all your information. But you can only work on what you can fit on your desk. It does not really matter that you have the Library of Congress next to you if you work slow on a small desk. However if you can work fast and have a big table you can get more done as you can keep more books where you need them. However as a help to the speed the library is ready.

You could run photoshop on a 20 gig drive if need be. But you want the space for breathing room and storage.But since memory is so cheep I say buy all you can afford. And in multiple drives. Such if you can afford 4 terrabytes get them in 500gig models rather than 1T ones. If one dies you will not lose as much.

With 400 files open...most are not in ram they are in the swap file on the drive that windows runs from. This is where the 2 drive example comes into play. Bridge must call back an image to ram to work on it then send the conversion to a drive. If it is pulling from one drive then writing to another it will go faster....see my above example.

Another hint on choosing a PC look at the FSB ( front side bus) this is the real bottlenect on a computer. The bigger the number the better.

I really enjoyed your post and found it informative man! Say I have multiple drives do I set them up to run properly with photoshop through photoshop or is it more complicated than that? Lots of good info, I'm learing quickly! Now if I can only figure out how to find the FSB info on a PC.. LOL

[prime80]

The one you're looking at has a 1066 MHz FSB. The ones with the newer quad-cores (Q9xxx) have a 1333MHz FSB. If you have multiple drives, the only setting you'll need to change for Photoshop is the scratch disk location. It's in Edit-Preferences. I just set up a 50GB partition on my fastest drive and use it as my scratch disk.

[Mark1]

FSB (also known as system bus)should be listed in the specs of the computer. Mine is 3600mhz, and with a quad core processor it never really gets backed up. This is the computer I just got about a month ago.... http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/1015014R/1015014Rsp2.shtml

prime80 mentioned how to set up the scratch disk. Its nothing major, just a preference setting.

[johneric8]

FSB (also known as system bus)should be listed in the specs of the computer. Mine is 3600mhz, and with a quad core processor it never really gets backed up. This is the computer I just got about a month ago.... http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/1015014R/1015014Rsp2.shtml

prime80 mentioned how to set up the scratch disk. Its nothing major, just a preference setting.

Tell me more about your experience with running your new Pc with Photoshop? How quickly does it respond ? I'm interested in the one you bought looks pretty good!

The specs says it comes with "Two 500 GB, 7200 RPM, SATA II hard drive" when they say Two 500 GB does that mean one Terra? Is that two seperate hard drives? Sorry for the stupid question. How do you think this compares to the Dell?

[Epix]

I'm sure the HDD are in RAID 0.

[Mark1]

Yes, they are two drives that are 1T together. Technically it takes 1024 gig to make a Tera but its close enuf.

I saw a HUGE difference in speed. I went from a single 2gig processor with 776 meg ram.... to a quad core --each core running at 2.2 with 3 gig of ram (new ram not installed yet. Why not? no good excuse.)

I have a software monitor that can keep track of the load on each core. Unless i am running a program that cant use multiple cores, they never see 50% no less maxing it out! Even exporting out of Lightroom it never breaks a sweat. Im not that much of a power user really, But I have yet to really work it hard. I have not done video on it yet tho.

screen shot of the monitor....
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8504/monitornn2.jpg

[ChasP505]

If you're going through a "big box" store, take a look at Velocity Micro. I'm pretty sure BestBuy sells them and you CAN get one with XP Pro.