TIME FOR A NEW PRINTER NEED IMPUT PLEASE

[TARPONTIM]

Well I am ready to make the purchase if price was not an object what is the best printer i can buy. I like 8.5x11 and larger. I am shooting with the rebel and i bought the 100 x 400 is it is great. thanks Tim.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Canon i9900 :)

[Steven M. Anthony]

... or the epson 2200

[gramps]

any thoughts on thenew Kodak? I think it's a 1400 or some # like that.

[gkas]

If you don't want your prints to fade, then it's the 2200 (or the 4400 if you want BIG).

[aikidoforever]

Many good printers out there. I Love my i9900!

[IanD]

If you are going to stay with prints at or under 8.5 x 11 then take a good hard look at the Canon Pixma 8500. It is a superb printer with output that will floor you. I picked one up last week to replace my i960 and do not regret it. Very fast, very quiet. As with any print from an ink jet, if the print is protected, under glass or in a sleeve, it will last for a lot longer than most of us will live.
Note: in researching this printer I found a few comments from "Web Tests" that there was a problem with over saturated reds with the 8500. I have no idea what settings the testers used or what driver version they used but there is no problem with over saturation of any kind. Taking the time to set up the driver and making sure you are using the proper settings in PS will go a long way to making perfect prints. It also helps to use the right profiles.

[L Pagan]

Epson R800

[aikidoforever]

Many good printers out there. I Love my i9900!

[DeeplyDigital]

... take a good hard look at the Canon Pixma 8500. It is a superb printer with output that will floor you. I picked one up last week ....

IanD,

Have you tried printing BW? The advertisind only ever mentions colour prints.

Julia

[blinking8s]

Canon i9900 :)

agreed...

ok...so onto the whole print fading arguement, if your selling fine art prints you are going to want a 100yr + archival life...everyone thows the whole 10-25 year debate up about epson and canon ink jets, but in truth, we have the files...inket prints are not going to last forever...but when the prints DO fade 10 or more years down the road (pending you dont set the exposed print in a window or something) then printer tech will prob have a 500yr + archival life or something insane...

so...we dont need to worry about it as much as we think, buy what looks best to you now

[IanD]

IanD,

Have you tried printing BW? The advertisind only ever mentions colour prints.

Julia Have not tried B&W yet but will shortly. I'll let you know the reults.

[jgbeam]

Canon i9900. Great prints on all media and FAST!.

Jim

[kmagic-digital]

I have 3 Epson printers (1270, 2200, R900)- I also have access to a 7600 and a 4000 -Good printers all- but my Kodak 8500 dye subs are the only ones I consider to be truely photo quality with consistent prints - every time! -

[rcrobert]

Just one more consideration -- the Canon i9900 is limited to 13x19" prints. The Epson can print 13 x 44". If you want to print large panoramas, Epson is probably the better choice. If not, either is a fine printer!

[TARPONTIM]

Well I did it i bought the i9900 and it is amazing. Ihave spent all day printing and the 13x19 on canon photo pro paper looks great. Thanks for all the imput. Tim

[mikesd]

Tim, you might also want to check out Ilford classic pearl 11x17 and 13x19 paper, in fact all of the Ilford papers work great on Canon printers. Congrats. on the new printer.

[Spatch]

IanD,

Have you had a chance to print B&W? I am looking at the i9950 (which has the same printing head, inks etc as the 8500) and one important consideration is B&W quality.

Cheers
Mark.

[TARPONTIM]

I will buy some illford thanks for the tip. I havent printed B+W yet but i will know.

[Longwatcher]

I have found the best paper for B+W on the i9900 is either a matte paper (epson or Canon) or Ilford's Classic Pearl (Printasia Pearl should give similiar results)

[mphoto]

I just purchased the i9900 and test prints using Ilford Classic Glossy paper look superb. Previously I was using an S900 with Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy. There is a noticeable improvement at 8.5x11.

[TARPONTIM]

I printed a black and white on 8.5x 11 on kodax ultim and i was impressed. I am going to make an order of ilfor paper and i will let you know. LOVE MY I9900. Tim.

[Bruce Watson]

I have found the best paper for B+W on the i9900 is either a matte paper (epson or Canon) or Ilford's Classic Pearl (Printasia Pearl should give similiar results)

What is the general opinion or experience with Red River papers?

I bought some (Polar Satin), set up a profile and am pleased with the output on my Canon S9000, but wonder about fading and am currently testing a couple of prints hanging in my office.

I find the Canon Photo Pro, while giving fantastic results, fades really, really fast. I mean in a matter of months if hung on a wall with moderate window lighting.

A solution would be mounting under glass, but that gets expensive.

Spray coatings help, but I think there is an issue with that particular paper and perhaps the ink, but my web research seems to indicate that other papers hold up better with the OEM Canon inks.

So, I am trying different manufacturers.

[rufis6]

If you want a printer that will NEVER have problems with ink lines clogging plus a long archieval life,and one that laminates the prints as they come out, try the Kodak Dye Sub 1400. I'm not sure if it's out yet; I have the precursor, the Kodak 8500. I have never had a problem after a year of usage. The 1400 may or may not be out yet, if not, it will be soon and is worth waiting for. It produces dry, smear-proof prints in 90 seconds. It has an enclosed print path and becuase it uses ribbons and not ink cartridges you will never have a problem of a print cartridge running out of ink in the middle of printing. It will produces both vibrant glossy or matte prints. The cost per print is $1.78 and will never change. I believe the max size is 8.5" By 14", well within you requirements. I never had the same printer for over seven years in my life; not with the way technology changes every year.

[kb244]

Dye Sublimnation printers are only rated for 7 year life, and are generally dull in vibrance compared to inkjets.

[Longwatcher]

What is the general opinion or experience with Red River papers?


I can not find Red River locally and while I will sometimes buy paper off the net, I must be able to buy it locally since I spend the time profiling the printer and paper together for my use. I must be able to get some with a short drive if I am not paying attention and run out in the middle of a print set, since I want consistency in a set I am selling. If it is a TFP set I am not as concerned. Thus I have not tested Red River papers. Also I have not come across anything about them as far as longevity. I have however read some decent to good things about that paper from others, but it has been awhile.

[Ajay213]

If you want a printer that will NEVER have problems with ink lines clogging plus a long archieval life,and one that laminates the prints as they come out, try the Kodak Dye Sub 1400.

Well other than the lamination part sounds just like an HP to me... :D

But nobody talks about HP around here, so it must be some kind of dirty word.

Andrew

[Spatch]

Chaps,

I know some of you were going to have a go at printing B&W (if possible on Ilford paper). Just wondered if you had had the chance, and if so, how it came out.

Cheers
Mark.

[mbze430]

Any consumer type HP inkjet is plain rediculously expensive because of the integrated print head with ink tank.

Though, I am looking for wide-format printers. Epson 4000, HP Designjet 130, and the Canon ImagePrograh 7250. The Deisgnjet 130 has a user serviceable print head, plus it is seperated from the ink tank. However from another forum, the prints might not be water resistance. I have order some test prints from HP, and will test it myself.

[Ajay213]

I agree 100% that HP is by far the most expensive per print printer out there, at least at the consumer level (I have no reference for the higher end stuff). Like everything else, the printer is just another tool to get the job done, pick out the tool that best does what YOU want it to do. A printer that shoots out junk quality but at 5 cents a print is just as bad as the printer that shoots out pro-lab quality stuff at $10 print.

My biggest piece of advice for printer shopping (and it applies to lots of other areas as well) is to first analyze what you need and want, then decide which models you should look at it and the associated costs of using it. If you print one 13x19 a year, then maybe you don't need that large format printer, or maybe you print one a week in which case you probably should consider it. If you print hundreds of photo's a month than a cost per print becomes very important, where as if you print a small handful then it's a secondary concern. And finally ignore all of the above if you want, there's nothing wrong with buying more than you need, it may not be "wise" in the strictest technical sense, but seriously, who cares. ;)

When I was looking for printers, in the sub $200 range, HP gave the best results in terms of quality (which may or may not be the case today). For me, I don't do any "big" jobs on the printer, maybe 15-30 4x6's a month and anything in the 8x10'ish range (typically very few). Everything else goes to the local lab which prints up 4x6 size for a quarter each, but I don't do that just to save money, I mainly don't want to babysit the printer as I push out big print jobs. So over a year period I may spend $100-150 more than if I had another printer, for such a long period of time that really isn't a significant amount of money.

Andrew

[DeeplyDigital]

Chaps,

I know some of you were going to have a go at printing B&W (if possible on Ilford paper). Just wondered if you had had the chance, and if so, how it came out.

Cheers
Mark.

B&W very impressive on Ilford Classic Gloss as well as Classic Pearl,
other people are also impressed when they see the prints in a portfolio.
I had to play around with the PSCS/printer settings quite a bit.

J.

[Spatch]

Deeply,

You say you had to mess around with the printer settings, was this to get rid of the colour casts? Are you using the Ilford paper ICC profile for your printer?

I have an i950 and it is extremely difficult to get pure B&W (even when using my custom profile). I am looking for a new printer and will probably go with the i9950 but I am trying to see if anyone can get a proper B&W when using the correct profile.

Mark.

[DeeplyDigital]

Deeply,

You say you had to mess around with the printer settings, was this to get rid of the colour casts? Are you using the Ilford paper ICC profile for your printer?

I have an i950 and it is extremely difficult to get pure B&W (even when using my custom profile). I am looking for a new printer and will probably go with the i9950 but I am trying to see if anyone can get a proper B&W when using the correct profile.

Mark.

Mark,
Last time I looked (quite a while ago) Ilford didn't have a printer profile for this printer.
I use different printer setting for colour & BW prints.
All photos are in Adobe RGB, then, when I get to "print with Preview",
the document source stays Adobe RGB, but instead of "print as source"
I use as Profile"CMYK (General CMYK Profile)".

the printer settings
For BW -
colour options - BJ Standard, Brightness - Light, all colours at 0,
Paper - prof. photopaper, detailed, fine

For Colour
no colour correction, Printer Profile - rec. by Canon (?), Brightness - normal but Magenta -6 & Intensity -5
Paper - prof. photopaper, detailed, fine

I used to have a setting where I had to reduce the magenta enormously when printing colour, and I was not able to get rid of a colour cast in B&Ws.

I think it is the unorthodox CMYK thing in PS that sends a different message across to the printer. At least like this (or should I say at he moment) I can actually show BW prints to other people without embarrassment.

Hope this helps,
J.

[Spatch]

Deeply,

Thanks. Yes, B&W are notoriously difficult to get right as inkjets use all colours to make the grey shades. When I get a replacement printer, I have even considered getting the old i950 converted to just B&W (with various shades of grey inks) to get perfect B&W. There are companies out there that supply grey inks for some printers but I am not sure they do them for the i950. I am not sure how feasible this is.

Anyway, I guess I will have to wait and see how the i9950 performs.

Mark.

[DeeplyDigital]

Deeply,

Thanks. Yes, B&W are notoriously difficult to get right as inkjets use all colours to make the grey shades. When I get a replacement printer, I have even considered getting the old i950 converted to just B&W (with various shades of grey inks) to get perfect B&W. There are companies out there that supply grey inks for some printers but I am not sure they do them for the i950. I am not sure how feasible this is.

Anyway, I guess I will have to wait and see how the i9950 performs.

Mark.


Admittedly it has crossed my mind to shoot B&W film and print them at home in my kitchen like I used to...

Using one printer solely for B&W is a great idea. The question is which inks to use.

J.

[Spatch]

J,

I am not exactly sure what inks to use yet (there was a company in the States that did them - I think). There have been some posts on here about this but I would need to do a search to find them again. I remember that I looked a while ago and there were inks for Epsons, but I did not find anything for Canon (especially the 6 ink system). I think it may be time to have another look.

Mark.

[DeeplyDigital]

J,

I am not exactly sure what inks to use yet (there was a company in the States that did them - I think). There have been some posts on here about this but I would need to do a search to find them again. I remember that I looked a while ago and there were inks for Epsons, but I did not find anything for Canon (especially the 6 ink system). I think it may be time to have another look.

Mark.


Lyson is available for Canon

www.lyson.com/ukhome.html
www.theinkjetpapershop.co.uk/

They certainly look good on the web page...

J.

[Spatch]

J,

Good find, I will have a closer look when I get home.

Mark.

[johnellisphotography]

agreed...

ok...so onto the whole print fading arguement, if your selling fine art prints you are going to want a 100yr + archival life...everyone thows the whole 10-25 year debate up about epson and canon ink jets, but in truth, we have the files...inket prints are not going to last forever...but when the prints DO fade 10 or more years down the road (pending you dont set the exposed print in a window or something) then printer tech will prob have a 500yr + archival life or something insane...

so...we dont need to worry about it as much as we think, buy what looks best to you now


My problem with that is that Canon prints start looking different in about 3 or 4 years by my experience and will probably start looking rather indesireable in about 7 or so. I suppose a married couple might get a bit ticked when their wedding photos look dingy on their 10th. Also, the canons are really limited on media. My epson printer does canvas, to cotton, to luster, to gloss.


EDIT:
Oh yeah, BandW. The epson 2200 give neutral tones when printed as RGB. Theres a whole article on Reichmanns website about it. According to my experience with it on my prints, they are pretty neutral and quite acceptable. My ilford RC prints look a bit brown in comparison actually. I've started to prefer the epson inkjets more.

[tabrandt]

I have heard that the epson R800 is very good.

[mbze430]

The best bet to get good to excellent B&W prints is to get dedicated 4-shade black and white or 6-shade black and white ink.

Check this out. If you have an older printer that you don't use anymore, it is a great way to get the last useage out of it by changing it to complete B&W

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/quadtone.html

[Spatch]

Deeply,

I had a look at the Lyson Quadtone and it looks good. I have emailed them for an idea of a price for a set of inks for the i950. I will let you know if you are interested. If it is not prohibitively expensive then I will be buying the B&W inks for the i950 when I get the i9950.

Mark.

[chtgrubbs]

Any consumer type HP inkjet is plain rediculously expensive because of the integrated print head with ink tank.

Though, I am looking for wide-format printers. Epson 4000, HP Designjet 130, and the Canon ImagePrograh 7250. The Deisgnjet 130 has a user serviceable print head, plus it is seperated from the ink tank. However from another forum, the prints might not be water resistance. I have order some test prints from HP, ad will test it myself.

Check out this review if you havent already seen it:

http://www.photofocus.com/showarchive.php?aid=213&cid=1

[DeeplyDigital]

Deeply,

I had a look at the Lyson Quadtone and it looks good. I have emailed them for an idea of a price for a set of inks for the i950. I will let you know if you are interested. If it is not prohibitively expensive then I will be buying the B&W inks for the i950 when I get the i9950.

Mark.

Mark,
yes, please let me know. I'd love to print more and better in B&W. As it is is, I am shooting B&W most of the time. (RAW, of course, and then I cannot wait to convert in PSCS.). I tried the HP printer with one BW ink tank last year and it was nothing like what I had hoped for, the colour and print quality were poor, too. I returned it to the shop.

J.

[Barb42]

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1108098105.html

Try the new epson R1800 !! $550 estimated street. 200 years lightfast on Epson Watercolor.

[mbze430]

WHOOHOO!!! Finally the make the announcement! This is the same one that was recently released in Japan, of course with different name and all....

$550, what a deal... Can't wait.

Only if they going to announce a replacement of the 4000...than I would so buy it.

[mbze430]

Okay, my HP 30/130 print sample came in the email today. VERY nice prints. The HP paper quality is excellent. It came with Satin and Proof. However, as stated. It's not water resistance. Just licking my index finger, and running it across the paper. It smudged.

So unless you don't care for the water resistance, it is a fine printer, and for the price you can't beat it.

[Barb42]

mbze430, I found the same thing with one of the HPs, one of the newer one. Smeared and chipped easily. I sprayed a sample with ImageShield by Lumijet. That worked great. Then I even tried a photowax on it. Work very well. Only inkjet I found that it worked with.

[mbze430]

How much is the spray, and is it "hard" to apply? Does it residue if you don't apply evenly?

[Bob_A]

Dye Sublimnation printers are only rated for 7 year life, and are generally dull in vibrance compared to inkjets.

Kodak Ektatherm Dye Subs have a print life of "many generations" ... much longer than 7 Earth years http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif This info is from the Kodak site:

"What is the expected life of my KODAK EKTATHERM EXTRALIFE Prints?
If the print is displayed or stored according to the specifications in ANSI/PIMA IT9.2-1998, KODAK EKTATHERM XTRALIFE prints can be expected to be of acceptable quality for many generations, when compared to silver halide photographic prints such as KODAK EKTACOLOR EDGE 7 and KODAK EKTACOLOR ROYAL VII papers."


There are some fantastic injets available, but I don't believe any produces a print that is archival as a dye sub yet. But as already mentioned, even if they don't last, future generations of printers will undoubtedly be much better ... probably cheaper too and you can always reprint em. The new Epson printers are phenominal tho ...

For me, the Kodak 1400 looks like an awesome printer ... can't wait to try one out.


Bob

[Barb42]

mbze430, the ImageShield can be picked up between $15 and $25 - depending on where you buy it. Its easy to spray but I wouldn't do it indoors - I use the porch - don't want to inhale that stuff. Not overly messy - drys really fast. The can covers 60 8-1/2 x 121 prints with 3 coats each.

[airborne]

Epson R800 unless you need to print large format. If you like glossy, try Kirkland Pro at Costco; I've had great results at cost savings. Stick with Epson inks.