how much to charge for COMMERCIAL photo..?

[ABphoto]

i've been approached by a large medical equipment company at my job (in a hospital) to do an action-shot photograph in our lab using their products. they are willing to give the hospital a $1000.00 educational grant and the photographer a stipend payment for the service. this company is very big, 2007 sales revenue was 525 million. i'm not sure exactly what i should expect or ask for this job. does anybody have any ideas??

keep in mind i haven't done a sit down with them yet discussing what they plan to do with this photo, whether it be a print ad, a brochure, newsletter, or whatever, but they are willing to pay the hospital $1000 in the form of an educational grant. any comments would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[Zansho]

wow. You'll also need to look at things from your end. Time to produce the image, equipment rentals, assistants (if you use any) to pay, mileage costs, post production time, prints, and rights usage for the images are ALL things you need to consider when it comes to something like this.

Talk with them first, see what they want from you and what they plan to do with your image(s) and go from there.

Good luck!

[Stocky]

If you are doing it on company time then I would go for it and not worry. Expect that the hospital you work for will end up with the copyrights though.

[ABphoto]

it's not on company time. it's an outside medical company wanting me to shoot some shots with their product in my hospital's lab. so basically they are paying the hospital money to allow them to have a photoshoot in their lab. on top of that they are gonna give the photographer money for their work.

i'm just trying to get an idea of what i can charge for my service. any takes? atleast some ball park figures?

[tcphoto1]

You know the Marketing people from the Company or did they find you on Flickr? There are many questions that need answered before you quote a rate. How will the images be used, how many images, for how long? And that's just the beginning. Do you have experience with this type of photography? I only saw one image on your Flickr page and a guy floating ...

[ABphoto]

me and 2 other extreme hobbyists at work have a bunch of our photos on all the screen savers. it's drawn a lot of attention from all kinds of vendors and sales reps. so this particular company had a sales rep and some big wig come in one day and was impressed with our work, that they went ahead an offered us this job. we've got a few other shots in the lab, both artisticly and real live shots. we still have to sit down and discuss what they want these photos for and for what demographic.

i'm thinking that if they are willing to pay the hospital $1000 just to open the lab for a photo shoot, we should expect at least equal to that for the photographers. but more specifically i'm thinking about charging an hourly rate of $100-$125, roughly 18 - 20hrs of work. but it still depends on what they want to use these pics for and what kind of rights do they want.

[sfaust]

He is in the USA, so unless his company has a intellectual property rights clause in a contract that he signed when he was hired (many do), then he most likely still owns the copyright by default. Typically it takes a written agreement to transfer the copyright to an employer.

What to charge is a slippery slope. First off you need to know your cost of doing business, then build from there. Second, you really really want to have business insurance to cover liability, errors and omission, etc. Without it, you may make a few bucks, but your house, property, savings, retirement, etc, is all exposed should you mess up. And if you are asking what to charge, you are probably not that experienced in the commercial end of the business and its land mines and traps. So the risk is there, and real.

Also, it's real nice of the company to donate $1,000 to the hospital, but giving you a striped isn't cool. It's like they are taking your payment and applying it elsewhere. How about they give it to you, skip the stipend, and you decide where it goes?

As an example of what they would be paying a professional to take those shots, figure about $900 to $2000 depending on how long it takes, if they need assistants, what equipment is used, etc. You are in a large market, so those rates could be even higher. Then there is usage fees, which depending on how they use it could be another thousand or more.

So in the end, who gets what. The hospital gets a nice little donation of $1,000. The manufacturer saves themselves a couple grand in photographers fees and usage. And the photographer, well, a stipend usually doesn't go very far at all.

Regardless if you are pro or not, its a pretty poor deal for the guy that ends up doing the photography, as everyone wins but him :(

[Walczak Photo]

Excuse me for butting in here but...what is a "striped payment"? I've never heard this term before...

Thanks,
Jim

[sfaust]

Excuse me for butting in here but...what is a "striped payment"? I've never heard this term before...

Thanks,
Jim

Where have you been Jim??

Striped payment is just what it seems. It is payment where the payee places a stripe across each paper bill before presenting it as payment. :) :)


Or, when spelled correctly (stipend), its a form of payment which is typically lower than normal wages and usually complemented with some other type of benefit as compensation.

[ABphoto]

thanks stephen! i'll take all that into account for sure. yes i am very new to commercial work, so this is what we've decided to do.. find out what these photos are intended to be used for, what kind of photos they're expecting, and what range of a stipend payment they can expect to offer. and go from there.

stephen do you think that if we do this job for almost nothing compared to market value, would it be worth the credits and portfolio? or is that just another way of bringing down the photography business world in general?

[Walczak Photo]

Or, when spelled correctly (stipend), its a form of payment which is typically lower than normal wages and usually complemented with some other type of benefit as compensation.

Sorry about the spelling, since I hadn't heard the term before, I went the the spelling from your own post ("...but giving you a striped isn't cool"). Either way, thanks for the info.

Peace,
Jim

[sfaust]

Sorry about the spelling, since I hadn't heard the term before, I went the the spelling from your own post ("...but giving you a striped isn't cool").


Jim, I'm the one that owns the apology. If I spelled it right in the first place (fixed it after your post so I won't confuse others), you might have had half a chance at figuring it out :)

stephen do you think that if we do this job for almost nothing compared to market value, would it be worth the credits and portfolio? or is that just another way of bringing down the photography business world in general?

Long answer to a short question.... I apologize ahead of time :)

I look at any offers like this in this manner. How much of my own money would I spend, save, or be willing to part with for this opportunity? How unique is the opportunity, could I recreate this on my own? What marketing or advertising value does this really have? Is this a favor for a friend or good client?

If someone gave me the opportunity to do a shoot with a A list movie star and wanted to charge me $500 to do so, I'd jump on it. Its unique, something I couldn't do on my own, has a tangible value, and would be a bargain. I pay more for good models! If I was asked to pay $6,000 for doing this, which would be a reasonable fee for doing that shot for them, I'd turn it down. If I did it for free, that is the tangible value I would be giving up, so in essense my 'cost' to do it for them for fee.

In your situation, and from my take;

A credit line for something like this is of no value with regard to self promotion, marketing, or getting your name out there. No one is going to see it, and those that do don't care. My phone has never rung with someone thats found me via a credit line, nor has any of my peers, and I've got hundreds or more out there nationally. Value to the photographer, $1 at best, or 1/2 an ego stroke :)

Could you do this shot all on your own without the manufacturers help, and put that in your portfolio? It sounds like you can, since you have connections with the hospital. If you could pull off the multiplicity shot at your work, it seems to me that you could probably do this one as well without any help from the manufacturer. So the value of the opportunity given you seems negligible as well.

Unless they are giving you access to their equipment that you can't get in any other way, and the equipment is important over some other piece of equipment you could use, I'd be yawing at this proposal so far.

That seems to leave only being able to say "I shot for XYZ, and here is the image", while pointing to a tear sheet. In my opinion, the first couple feel good, but after doing a lot of these you come to the realization that there is little value in those as well. Clients don't ask to see tear sheets, and react no differently to a tear sheet than they do of the same straight image n your web site or in your portfolio. So while it does have a feel good effect, its limited in value in the marketing end as well. How much that is worth to a given photographer? The less experienced put a higher the value to them than a pro does. So there is probably some limited value there, but not much.

As for diluting the market, it the above shows there is a real value to you, then market be damned. You do the right thing for you, and try to get some coin at the same time. After all it is a business, and you are not here to serve the other photographers competing with you. Just make sure there is some real value to you that is obvious to both yourself and the client.

But if there is little to no value for you on the table, and you do it for next to nothing, then you are just giving away your time. That will set the value of your time and skills at next to nothing in the clients eyes, and that does dilute the market for everyone. And you will here this from time to time from potential clients calling you and asking you for a shot like this, and replying with "wow, I thought it would only cost say $100, since the last photographer that did this only charged me $50 for gas money. Why are you so expensive?"

If you do find value, and do this, let the client know the true value up front. Let them know what a shoot like that would really go for, what you are willing to do it for, and why you are dropping the price. You can say its for inexperience, the results are not guaranteed like a pro, you could have to reshoot, the final quality won't be the same, you can't guarantee the files will make it through CMYK conversions without issues et, you've never directed talent before, and so on. Give them a good long list. By doing that, you've set the value correctly, and at the same time listed a host of reasons why a pro charges more.

Then when they come back to you in 4 years and want another freebie or rock bottom discount, you can say my price is now market rate because now you can gaurantee your results, you have experience working with talent, you won't need to reshoot, your quality is on par with any other pro out there, and so on. If they see value that, they will hire you, and you've got a good client. If not, they will go looking for another in-experienced photographer and try to bargain on the low end again, and you will be happy their aren't your client always pushing for more services for less money.

[ABphoto]

stephen, thanks for that feedback! that really answers almost all my questions and doubts of the unknown to me. sounds like you've got a lot of experience, i appreciate the advice!!