Should I switch from Canon to Nikon?

[S230]

Should I switch form a Canon Digital Rebel (EOS-300D) to a Nikon D70?
Can someone PLEASE tell me why I should still keep using Canon.

I have been battling this question for several months now. As for point and shoot camera, Canon is still my choice but when it comes to SLR, it's a different story.

Eventhough my friend had been telling me to get a Nikon, I still went for Canon because I liked the S230. I just purchased my Digital Rebel 2 months ago and noticed that the photos I am taking is dark and not as sharp/clear as the Nikon. This was compared side by side with the Nikon. Eventhough both was using the kit lens, Nikon does have a better kit lens than Canon but does it make such a difference? I borrowed a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Series Lens (Expensive) but still especially when indoors, it does not seem to compare to even the kit lens that came with the Nikon. (The lens was tested with both the Digital Rebel 300D and the new 20D.) Why?

My biggest debate is with the Lens. Should I make any future investment in Canon because they do not seem to have as much Lens to choose from whereas Nikon can use Lens from several generations ago.

What really made me to start swinging towards another brand was the lack of support/response I got from Canon. They also made no attempt or offer me incentive because my rebate was off by 2 days (Literally).

- S230

[Cadwell]

You say you have tried both and decided that you prefer the Nik*n? It sounds like you've done your evaluation and reached a conclusion. Based on that you should go and buy the Nik*n.

[C.S.I.]

Why dont you ask that question in a Nik n forum........



JK :p

[chops]

Should I switch form a Canon Digital Rebel (EOS-300D) to a Nikon D70?
Can someone PLEASE tell me why I should still keep using Canon.

I have been battling this question for several months now. As for point and shoot camera, Canon is still my choice but when it comes to SLR, it's a different story.

Eventhough my friend had been telling me to get a Nikon, I still went for Canon because I liked the S230. I just purchased my Digital Rebel 2 months ago and noticed that the photos I am taking is dark and not as sharp/clear as the Nikon. This was compared side by side with the Nikon. Eventhough both was using the kit lens, Nikon does have a better kit lens than Canon but does it make such a difference? I borrowed a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Series Lens (Expensive) but still especially when indoors, it does not seem to compare to even the kit lens that came with the Nikon. (The lens was tested with both the Digital Rebel 300D and the new 20D.) Why?

My biggest debate is with the Lens. Should I make any future investment in Canon because they do not seem to have as much Lens to choose from whereas Nikon can use Lens from several generations ago.

What really made me to start swinging towards another brand was the lack of support/response I got from Canon. They also made no attempt or offer me incentive because my rebate was off by 2 days (Literally).

- S230
PLEASE... Keep the Canon!

The Digital Rebel is a much better camera than the Nikon D70. Image quality alone is better and more acurate than the D70. Exposure, white balance, color saturation and focusing is also much better than the Nikon. The Rebel also focuses in much lower light than the Nikon and focuses faster.

I think you just don't have something set properly on your Rebel. Make sure you don't have the exposure compensation cranked down, or the flash output turned down some. And check all of your other settings as well. Make sure you're not using too fast of a shutter speed or too small of an aperature, which will underexpose a picture.

If you do another comparison with your Digital Rebel and your friend's D70, make sure to have as close as possible the same exact settings on both cameras to get the truest results.

Also remember to bump up your ISO to 200, since the D70 does not go lower than 200.

NOTE: If you are shooting both cameras at the same focal length, aperature, and shutter speed on your lowest ISO setting, then the D70 WILL show up with a brighter exposure every time!!!

[robekert]

The Nikon D70 is a fine camera. Get it and use it. I have seen a few reviews that say the D70 is a better resolved camera package in comparison to the DRebel. You did your evaluation......go with your gut instincts. If you do a turn around there is always a way to sell a fine camera.
Cheers,
Rob

[cmM]

you either got faulty equipment (not likely), or your dark/underexposed pics are because of user error. My rebel produced very good images.

[kawter2]

The Nikon D70 is a fine camera. Get it and use it. I have seen a few reviews that say the D70 is a better resolved camera package in comparison to the DRebel. You did your evaluation......go with your gut instincts. If you do a turn around there is always a way to sell a fine camera.
Cheers,
Rob


It better be for about 2x's the price!!! I always get frustrated with this because people compare the D70 to either the 200D that is half the price of the 10D Which is discontinued. You will be paying about $1100 after rebate for the kit, as opposed to a 300D kit of about $600

[Belmondo]

You say you have tried both and decided that you prefer the Nik*n? It sounds like you've done your evaluation and reached a conclusion. Based on that you should go and buy the Nik*n.
I agree. Truth is, they both make excellent cameras and optics. Canon's EOS system has been around for going on twenty years, and every EOS lens ever made will fit your Rebel. If that isn't sufficient compatability, then maybe Canon isn't your brand.

As to image quality, side-by-side comparisons are not reliable. Unless you know what settings are used, and are able to duplicate them within different camaras, it's impossible to make an objective assessment. In the right hands, your Rebel will produce images fully the equal of anything your friend can do with his Nikon.

If in your opinion the 'out of the box' shots are better on the Nikon, and if that's all you ever intend to do with your camera, buy a Nikon.

[scottbergerphoto]

All my film cameras including an F5 are Nikon. All my digital cameras are Canon, after returning a Nikon D100. Does that tell you something? Canon color rendition blows away Nikon.

Check out www.nikonians.org (http://www.nikonians.org) to see what Nikon users say about their cameras.
Regards,
Scott

[robekert]

It better be for about 2x's the price!!! I always get frustrated with this because people compare the D70 to either the 200D that is half the price of the 10D Which is discontinued. You will be paying about $1100 after rebate for the kit, as opposed to a 300D kit of about $600

The comparison is fair. Each is a entry level 6mp prosumer DSLR camera. B&H lists the D70 at $999 and the DRebel for $799. They are in the same ballpark. The comparison is apples to apples, maybe a granny smith to a rome delicious :wink:
Cheers,
Rob

[E.C.Giorgio]

HI,
I'v been a pro-photog for 30 years and also have taught! I'n all my travels i've used different makes, models, lenses, etc. I've also shot in different formats. As a matter of fact my first camera was a Yashica Rangefinder, which i used in 1966 in Vietnam and i still have it and it works!
I get a little crazy when people asked me what to buy, and if one make is better than the rest. My opinion is that they're all good and it depends on your preference. I've used Minolta along with some Quantaray lenses and Sigma and my shots came out great!
Over the years i've told my students that it's not the camera, it's the person using it!
Do you have the "eye"? I've had students shooting with the best Nikon's and the shots came out terrible. If you learn the basic's and practice and experiment you can use any camera and your shots will come out GREAT!
Sorry, for going off on a tangent! What's your reason for switching? I think that Cannon has a wonderful selection of Cameras, lenses, and accessories. Within the past year i sold most of my film camera's and went completely DIGITAL, YIKES!
My choice was the Cannon EOS 10D, WOW, what a Camera. Also one of my friends who shoots for a local newspaper, converted to digial and went with the Cannon!
His reasoning was that he can still use his Cannon lenses, which saved him a lot of money. Recently, another friend bought a Nikon D70, and i asked him why he chose it?
His reply was (he's a retired teckie), "it got good reviews" over the other makes!
When i buy a Camera, i usually go with the way it "feels" in my hand. Then with what it has to offer, accessories, and then maybe see how other pro's like it! And if it's within my "price range", and complicated to use. Some of these Digital's are so complex that you need a "degree in computers" to figure them out!
Anyway, this is just my opinion! Good luck in whatever you chose?
Sincerely, Manny

[Jon]

I just purchased my Digital Rebel 2 months ago and noticed that the photos I am taking is dark and not as sharp/clear as the Nikon. This was compared side by side with the Nikon.
Have you set sharpness, saturation, or hue in the DR? Are these flash pictures or available light (Canon holds back the flash to get a more "natural" image by default)? Are you comparing the pictures on a computer screen, as finished prints, or on the cameras' LCD screens? LCD screens are not the right place to try to evaluate the picture. Have you checked your photos' histograms to see if they're being properly exposed? Is your viewfinder diopter adjustment set correctly (may cause you to assume the camera's misfocussing if it's off) for your eyes? As you can see there are a number of things that you can set/adjust/do to get "better" results from the camera.

[timmyquest]

If you have canon glass, stick with canon, if you have nikon glass, stick with nikon.

They are both world class cameras at the top of the game. Most of us will tell you we prefer canon. But thats like saying you'd rather have a camaro then a mustang.

(I had a dream last night about the most beautiful 1968 fastback, so you know which one i'd take)

[Andy_T]

It might be the case that your specific DRebel is not performing optimal. Either because of wrong settings, or because of a manufacturing problem. These happen.

The main reason for me to suspect this is that accourding to you the Canon 24-70/2.8L performed worse on your camera than the Nikon kit lens on the D70. That is just not the case. * Period *

Is your camera still under warranty?

Best regards,
Andy

[DocFrankenstein]

Sounds like you just didn't learn to use your rebel yet. Go RTFM and shoot some pics. Read a few articles about spot metering and how to use it properly.

Unless you're shooting sports and fast action, it makes no difference what camera you use. All of them auto focus reasonably fast, all of them give you ok exposure and the pro lenses from different manufacturers are pretty sharp too.

I am not trying to keep you with canon, I don't own Canon shares. I am not a fanatical canon follower, esp with their pricing ;)

But your complaints are:
the photos I am taking is dark and not as sharp/clear as the Nikon.
Probably user error
Nikon does have a better kit lens than Canon but does it make such a difference? I borrowed a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Series Lens (Expensive) but still especially when indoors, it does not seem to compare to even the kit lens that came with the Nikon. (The lens was tested with both the Digital Rebel 300D and the new 20D.) Why?
Possibly the D70 does more post processing in camera. Increasing the colors and sharpening the pictures...
Did you set your WB with canon to tungsten when you were shooting indoors?

Can someone PLEASE tell me why I should still keep using Canon.
I keep using canon because:
1) All pro sport shooters use it. It pretty much has a monopoly on that market.
2) I know their lenses are good. (not the kit one :D) Although you can stop it down and get ok quality.
3) Canon top DSLRs are better than Nikon's. It means that soon I'll have the technology from those top bodies in a mid range DSLR. (like 20D's good autofocus)
4) I know it make no fn difference as to what camera you're using most of the shots I take. It's just that Canon was the first to offer an affordable DSLR capable of good results. I might as well might've gotten a minolta, kodak, olympus or nikon. The name of the brand doesn't make you a better photographer.
5) Canon lenses are just as expensive and just as good as the nikon ones. Nikons are better for macro. Canons are for sports because of the faster focusing.

Nikon does have the advantage of accepting the old lenses. And I am missing split circle viewfinder and MF on my rebel. Maybe some other ones... ask on "their" forum.

but the idea that Canon images are softer is bogus. IMO it has something to do with post processing.

Before you lose a grand or two on switchin to nikon, I'd advise you to try 50/1.8 It only costs 70 bucks, but is one of the best in canon lineup.

If it produces low contrast unsharp images, then NIKON is the way to go :D

Cheers

[Chris1le]

I have to ask. Have you spent enough time getting to know your camera. Take some time to really understand how to use the camera. It will not matter if you shoot with a Canon or Nik*n if you don't take the time to learn how to get the most out of your camera. This board is a great tool for learning.

[KennyG]

Sundar, You may end up with the same problems with the N*kon if it is a problem of technique rather than a hardware issue. Stop and take a breath for a moment. Why not post an example of your problem shots with Exif details and let the many knowledgeable people here see if they can help you get it resolved. You may not have to spend any money at all on a new camera.

Like others have said, the warning bells sounded when you said you could not get good results with the 24-70 2.8 which literally blows away the N*kon kit lens by a country mile.

But, maybe you have made your mind up and have just come on here to blow off some steam, in which case, have fun on the N*kon forum as they have just as many issues as Canon.

[roanjohn]

Nikon D70 > Canon Rebel
Nikon Kit lens > Canon Kit lens

The Nikon D70 is still a more capable camera than the Rebel in terms of feature set, versatility and speed. It is a few hundred dollars more compared to the Rebel, so this should be taken into consideration too.

Both cameras will produce wonderful images in the right hands. In the end, its up to you whether you want to invest in Nikon glass or Canon g"L"ass :-p

Ro1

[chops]

It is a few hundred dollars more compared to the Rebel, so this should be taken into consideration too.

Ro1That has nothing to do with one being better than the other. The Canon D60 was $700 more than the 10D. The Nikon D100 was quite a bit higher than the D70. Which camera is actually better though?!

I prefer the Rebel not because it is a Canon, but because it feels, sounds better, ISO goes down to 100, and offers a vertical grip.

[JZaun]

s230, I am sorry one of our senior membors felt it necessary to tell you RTFM. It was uncalled for and un-necessary. I have owned Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax and Sony . Each ahd its strong points and weak points. I loved my Nikon but when the digital cam's came out, in my opinion Canon came out on top. That does not say that each of the other cam's are not good. I just read forums, studied features, surveyed accessories and decided that the Canon had what I wanted. You need to make that decision. If you are having problems getting good photo's out of your Rebel, take some test shots on a tripod, post a couple here with the cam settings and I bet someone can help you get great pics from it!!

Good luck on your decision process.
JZ

[DocFrankenstein]

s230, I am sorry one of our senior membors felt it necessary to tell you RTFM. It was uncalled for and un-necessary.
The fact that I'm a senior member means that I blab a lot. Nothing more.

But it's either RTFM or faulty cameras (both 20D and Dreb). I fail to see how both the cameras can be faulty and how you can get blurry images from 24-70 :?

And I don't think it's a big enough blow, even for a fragile ego that is worth mentioning.

Cheers

[chops]

I fail to see how both the cameras can be faulty and how you can get blurry images from 24-70 :?


Cheers
Very bad back focusing issues! LOL :-)

[DocFrankenstein]

Oh, right... There's always that :D

[chops]

Oh, right... There's always that :D
hehehehehehehehe....

[DocFrankenstein]

Or a woman can cut off your lens and toss it out a window of a moving car...

[S230]

THANK YOU everyone... Wow... I am totally speechless at the amount of responses I got.
within 2 hours I received over 20 replies!

Just the dedication and some of the responses I got is enough for me to take a closer look before switching. My initial choice was because I was using a Canon PS, then the price which was the final decision. I don't really care about speed or bells and whistles of the camera body but the quality is important.

There are some points to clarify some questions so it does not confuse anyone.
The cameras are taken with both on and off a tripod. The subject is just a toy teddy bear that does not move. The lighting is indoor afternoon, standard tungsten and flourscent lights. Distance is approx. 10 feet away. ISO tested at 200, 400 and 800.

The result is displayed on regular CRT monitors (Viewsonic and Goldstars). I also use the histogram on Photoshop to verify.
The filesize on the Nik*n for some reason is slightly larger which may suggest capturing more information. The images displayed side by side, Nikon seems to be sharper and colder (blue) but Canon seems softer with warmer colour (red).
Outdoors with LOTS of light seems better but while indoors, the Canon seems soft sometimes blury. One of my friend owns a 20D and he too took some photos and it too was not as sharp. We have a total of 3 people testing the equipment. Deep inside, I think I maybe missing something. Would this have something to do with CCD verses CMOS?

Obviously the Nik*n is a bit faster because it is newer but more importantly does quality differ? They are both 6MP.
One of the things that impress me was the noise level is very minimal compared with the Nik*n. After approx 30 minutes long exposure, I was almost immediately able to view the photo with little noise while the Nik*n was still processing, processing and processing.

The following will hopefully answer some of the responses and I truly thank you all for the support.
-------------------------
Chops, I agree with you that focusing on the Canon is much faster.

E.C.Giorgio, It's great to hear from somone experienced and teaches photography. I agree that it really depends on the person shooting. But I am using a tripod also and default settings on both. One suggestion earlier is probably the settings I have and needs to be tweaked. My other question is the cost of additional lens. Nik*n lens seem to be available just about everywhere and it's ability to use older generations seems to give it an advantage. I have no lens at all so therefore I am starting from grounds up. You mentioned "with what it has to offer", this is something I am hoping someone can answer for Canon.

Jon, I need to look into adjusting the sharpness, saturation, Hue, etc. I am comparing at default and see if there are any major differences. I am using a CRT monitors and also comparing photos within same monitor.

Andythaler, I had thought about this. I also tried on a 20D which was the same result. Maybe nature of the CMOS verses CCD?

DocFrankenstein, the subject is not moving and I am using a tripod. Quality is not bad but just not as sharp and I would think. I do agree with you that the D70 has more post processing and takes forever. I am currently looking into a 50mm 1.8 lens and see if it makes any difference.

JZaun, THANK YOU for standing up for me. :) I guess I was not making myself very clear at the beginning.

[Jon]

Were you using the Canon in one of the "Basic" zones (green square or pictures), or the "Creative" (Tv, Av, P, M) zones? The basic zones won't let you set much of anything - you sort of take what Canon is willing to give you, including ISO, which they will change, IIRC. I don't know what the D70 does under these circumstances, but that's something else to be aware of.

[S230]

Were you using the Canon in one of the "Basic" zones

Hi Jon, I tried both mode and Auto was best when there is lots of lights. in low light situation, the flash automatically fires. I chaned to "M" and auto focus (Center), and still not as sharp as I would expect.

[Persian-Rice]

IMHO, the Nikon is a pretty good camera. I would rate is slightly above the 300D in terms of functionality but not as good in overall image quality.

I strongly believe that Canon's Digital line is superior to that of any of its competition. I also feel that Canons line of lenses is also superior. I think that some Nikon lenses are not compatible with some of their camera's (not sure). If you were shooting film, hands down, the Nikon F's are absolutely killer and better then Canon films.

Belmondo put it quite well, if you feel that your studies show that the Nikon is better out of the box, then go with your heart. If you are not very serious about photography and don't intend on spending on expensive accessories, then that is fine. Lets be honest here, not everyone needs or wants 3 grand in lenses.

[cmM]

I don't really care about speed or bells and whistles of the camera body but the quality is important.
someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but Canon is miles ahead as far as sensors and image processing technology.
If quality is your only concern, then the rebel has the same award winning 6.3 megapixel CMOS sensor as the 10D, onlt difference is "speed and bells", and it's pretty much the same with the D70 compared to the 300D.

[S230]

IMHO, the Nikon is a pretty good camera. I would rate is slightly above the 300D in terms of functionality but not as good in overall image quality.

I strongly believe that Canon's Digital line is superior to that of any of its competition. I also feel that Canons line of lenses is also superior. I think that some Nikon lenses are not compatible with some of their camera's (not sure). If you were shooting film, hands down, the Nikon F's are absolutely killer and better then Canon films.


I agree wiht Persian-Rise that Nik*n is a pretty good camera because out of box it's better and more recent but as Persian-Rice and CmM put it, Canon's imaging technology is far ahead; can someone verify if it is true that Canon's Digital Rebel (BODY) is more superior and can produce better photos if using identical lens as Nik*n? This would be interesting to know.

[FOTOWEEK.com]

okay, I am little late here and most have given their opinions. I will give mine too :D

I am die hard Canon Fan since my first small film camera and then migrated to Canon Film SLRs. But when I had to go digital there were only two choices Rebel or D70. When I handled both the camerasm I "felt" Nikon is better value for money wrt features it offers and I went with Nikon, while my rest of cameras remain Canon.

In my opinion both the cameras are EXCELLENT, its just the matter of with which you feel your camera.

[Johnny V]

someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but Canon is miles ahead as far as sensors and image processing technology.
If quality is your only concern, then the rebel has the same award winning 6.3 megapixel CMOS sensor as the 10D, onlt difference is "speed and bells", and it's pretty much the same with the D70 compared to the 300D.

I agree...that's why I went with Canon. I've been a Nikon guy for 25 plus years. The bottom line is I just like the image quality coming out of the Canon cameras much better than the Nikon D70 or D100.

With that said...Yes S230 you might have a bad camera and/or lens.

I had to exchange the first Rebel as it was defective - focus was dog slow, badly back focused on all lenses and had image smearing in corners...the new one is better but...

I'm in the process of exchanging a new 17-40l f4 because of lack of sharpness and again smearing in corners. At 17mm I can focus the lens at 80 feet, stop down to f8 and infinity is still soft at the corners and sides!

My other two new Canon lenses back focus: 50 f1.4 slightly and 70-200l f4 is tack sharp at 200mm, incredibly terrible back focus at 70mm.

Once I get the 17-40 back I'm going to send all four items to Canon for repair. I really think Canon has dropped the ball on QC.

Been shooting professional for years from 35 to 8x10 and besides I RTFM just in case. Not new to digital either been using the Fuji S2 for a couple of years too. Shot with Canons also - rented and borrowed.

I still haven't sold my Nikons yet as I just want to make sure I'd be happy with Canon. Still not sure what I'll do if Canon does not fix the problem.

Buy a 20D so the lenses will work? Why should I have to?

This is not a rant, just my experience so far with Canon.

[Persian-Rice]

S230,

If I owned the 300D, I would not change it.
the D70 is fast but Canon's lower end lineup is better then that of Nikon's. To say the sensor technology is superior is somewhat an overstatement as Nikon has sensor features we Canoneers(my new name for us) can only dream of.

However the statement is not untrue, Canons is at the top of the food chain in terms of sensor technology and it is seen throughout their lineup.

S230, the difference is minimal even if the Canon is better, although I like Canon's colors better out of the box. A body with a mediocre lens will produce crap. A body with a great lens will produce very nice images. selling a 300D at a loss and buying a similar camera at an even higher price is somewhat foolish. Spend the extra $300-$500 you will be losing upgrading to a d70 on a good lens and any owner with a d70 and a $150 lens would only wish they could produce the same quality.

Cheers

[FOTOWEEK.com]

I agree with Persian-Rice, specially on SLRs lens that matters more than the body. Think long term, when you are buying an SLR you are buying a system and not just the camera. Bodies will loose its value far faster than lenses, so one needs to decide with SLR system he is comfortable with.

If I have canon already, I would not sell it at loss to buy whole new system...photography is more about photos, gear is just a tool to achive it.

On the other note, if you ask such question on Canon forums or for that matter revers question on Nikon Forum, there are chances you will get biased opinion.

[Olegis]

Personally, I would not jump into conclusions about faster focusing or better image quality of either system - both of them are so similar that I wonder if there is any noticeable difference at all. Both Canon and Nikon bodies are great, AF systems speeds are similar (except of that of 20D which is newer and apparently faster) with USM or AFS lenses, ISO noises are also very close (with a little edge to Canon, maybe), image quality is great with both systems. The lenses of both are great (Nikon ones are more expensive for some reason).

Now, IMO the choice should be made based on personal feeling, using a camera along with all the ergonomics is a very personal thing. One may like the feel of the Nikon body, and the other may be crazy about the wheel-control of the Canon. I suggest to try both cameras side-by-side and then decide what you like and what you don't like. You can produce great images with both !

Personally, I tried both 10D and D70 at the local store and liked the feel of the 10D better - maybe because of the magnesium body. Then I thought about lenses lineup - as I said, the Canon lenses are a little bit cheaper than similar ones from Nikon. That was also part of by desicion.

[S230]

My other two new Canon lenses back focus: 50 f1.4 slightly and 70-200l f4 is tack sharp at 200mm, incredibly terrible back focus at 70mm.

Actually that may be part of the problem because last night I retired taking test photos and notices that it is still not sharp on particular objects. I set the white bracketing manually so that it looks brighter and increased the sharpening. Still for some reason focusing seems to be a little off.
What I plan on doing is borroring another 300D to compare and see if the same thing will happen. It's sad that Canon's QC is going downhill because this is my first DSLR and I plan to do lots of photos on it therefore no time for downtime. =(

[phili1]

I have read the reviews and was considering it before I bought the 20D, over the Rebel because of the features. Both the 300 D and 20 D beat it for noise and the D 70 has purple fringing. It does have some features close to the 20D but the reports and pictures I have seen are not better.

I have owned NIkon in the past and they are great Cameras but for the last four Cameras it has been Canon because of there quality and features.

Like everyone said, its your decission and if you have your mind made up go Nikon.

By the way any complaint I have with my camera in the end boils down to me and the way I interpet its functions. I know two photographers who have the same equiptment and post better pictures, because they not the Camera take better Pictures.

[S230]

Both the 300 D and 20 D beat it for noise and the D 70 has purple fringing. It does have some features close to the 20D but the reports and pictures I have seen are not better.

Like everyone said, its your decission and if you have your mind made up go Nikon.

Thanks phili1, I agree that the D70 does show purple fringing. Not sure if this is related to the lens or with CCD technology?
As for decision, I plan on getting myself a different lens and see if it makes any difference. I hope to stay with Canon. Still not sure why the photos are not as sharp and may need to go in for sevice. :(

I have posted on the forum looking for a 50mm f1.8 lens. I hope that will make a difference.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50361

[lkorell]

I have always been a Nikon user when it comes to film, but for digital I prefer Canon. I have a Digital Rebel and a 20D. Both are excellent cameras.

I don't believe that your statements regarding the 24-70L have anything to do with the lens. That's a killer lens. You probably need to play around with your camera settings to get the optimal results. Shooting conditions vary quite a bit, and using digital compared to film is a totally different animal. Basic principles apply but there are quite a few different variables when shooting digital over film.

There is most certainly a learning curve when first moving to digital. For 'professional" results, you can't treat these cameras like a point and shoot. You have to study and practice quite extensively to find the settings that make the images you are trying to produce. Once you find these settings you can see the difference right away.

I suggest playing with the Digi Rebel a lot more before you give up. If what you described as your experience is correct, I suspect you will not be satisfied with the D70 either because that camera requires the same amount of practice with settings as the others.

Best of luck!

Lou

[S230]

I suggest playing with the Digi Rebel a lot more before you give up. If what you described as your experience is correct, I suspect you will not be satisfied with the D70 either because that camera requires the same amount of practice with settings as the others.
Thanks and Good point, this is why I am playing around with the settings more and I am actually looking to purchase a 1.8 lens to see the difference.
Cost is not longer an issue between the two because the price of the body is almost the same but it's the actual technology CCD verses CMOS (Which is better) is that is more concerning to me. Lens as I learned is important and can make a difference but even if you have the best lens but if the electronics cannot keep up with it then it can look bad.
As one of the replies, someone mentioned that Canon is better in imaging technology. I am hoping this is true.

[KennyG]

Canon make their own sensors, N*kon build cameras around someone elses sensor. Canon have full control of their technology, N*kon don't, and it shows. It is mainly because of their sensor technology that Canon has won the top awards this year. Oh, and N*kon are moving to a Sony manufactured CMOS chip.

Consider one fact - 70% of the pro photographers at the Olympics were using Canon. At any major event, just count the number of Canon lenses and it is at least the same ratio. Why does a pro who has to earn his livelehood from his equipment prefer Canon?

I won't mention noise problems, I won't, honest.

[jalafer]

Why don´t you buy a 10D instead of the 300D ?
The 10D is far better than the D70, and now you can get it for around 1000$

I have friends that have the D70 and they are not very happy with the tendency of underexposing of this camera.

[DocFrankenstein]

Post some samples with full exif data

[S230]

Why don´t you buy a 10D instead of the 300D ?
The 10D is far better than the D70, and now you can get it for around 1000$

I have friends that have the D70 and they are not very happy with the tendency of underexposing of this camera.
I did think about this and infact, I had a choice to trade it in for a used 10D at probably little or no cost. My camera is new 2 months and why I did not go for the 10D was because the Drebel was able to simulate most controls and many sites I read says they are identical inside. This I am not sure and what about the CMOS size?
Also, the Rebel can use the EF-S mount not sure if the 10D can.

[lkorell]

The 10D is a great camera but as you know the D70 is a newer one that probably has some slight advantages, being newer technology. The one to beat is the 20D.

I think it blows the D70 away, but that's just my opinion. It really is a question of finding something you can become comfortable with. That being said, there will be newer and better cameras from both Canon & Nikon in the upcoming months and that will continue for as long as people buy cameras. You have to find something that delivers what you need and stay with that for a while.

Now, if you have an unlimited budget, you could just keep buying the latest models.

Lou

[wolf]

Hey S230, I think the most important reason to stay with Canon is:

You would not be able to chat with other cool and helpful Canon EOS forum members about how great your new camera is if you bought a Nikon.

[S230]

Hey S230, I think the most important reason to stay with Canon is:

You would not be able to chat with other cool and helpful Canon EOS forum members about how great your new camera is if you bought a Nikon.
I think I agree on that one... hehe.. :)

I did some digging and seems that canon is slightly better on imaging technology. As for the Nik*n D70, not sure how much more improvement over the Rebel. But given a year difference, surely they should had already made a lot of advancements but I just cannot see too many. Guess Canon really is more advanced.
I am still looking forward to buying a really go 50mm f/1.8 lens. Don't want to spend too much and still looking.

[S230]

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm

I had found an interesting article comparing the 20D to a D70. Does anyone know a site that compares the Digital Rebel to the D70? So far the 20D is a winner but I want to compare apples to apples and I think Drebel is around there. Another posting I saw in the forum was a good advantage for using the Black bodied rebel because if I upgraded to the 20D, my wife probably won't notice.. hehe.. :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well aside from the fact that KenRockwell is the biggest horses arse in photography with a platform to broadcast his narrow minded opinions... :rolleyes:

The D70 is indeed a nice camera.

I like the Canon entris better.. 10D, 20D etc...
I have not used a 300D beyond the most cursory trial.. but I know it is capable of the same image quality as the 10D,. a camera I have spent a LOT of time with.. and love.

Just to re-iterate what many have been saying... Canon is THE Digital SLR leader.

Pros have been literally forced in droves to switch TO Canon from Nikon as they switch from film to digital.

[DocFrankenstein]

^^^^ :D:D:D:D

He loves "saturated warm images" his D70 gives him :D

Who's Ken Rockwell?

[HKFEVER]

I sold all my Nikon gears expect the old Nikomat in 6 months ago. Reason, not sure why.....

- but I found out Canon is not as sharpe as Nikon in digital.....
- Canon keep on improve its performace but Nikon is slow......

[OneManArmy]

The fact is, Canon and Nikon go back and forth over the years like ford and chevy. At the moment, Canon is on top, in camera bodies, but even more so in the area of lenses (L series, IS etc.)

There's no comparison between the 20d and d70 btw.

[S230]

There's no comparison between the 20d and d70 btw.
I agree that there is really no comparison between the two, but as for image sharpness, it does seem that Nik*n is little sharper but when it comes to sports and Fabrics (Indoors), Canon is better at picking up images it should look like.

Last night I've tried taking photos at some text on my wall, and if looking really closely, it is not really sharp. Still really good but just not sharp. I already cranked the sharpness level to max.

[DocFrankenstein]

It won't be "sharp sharp" no matter what you do. Because the CCD or CMOS sensors don't capture all 3 colours per pixel they interpolate it to create full color image.

Of course some detail is lost.

If you want extreme sharpness you should consider sigma SD 10. Their sensor is 3 colors per pixel and allows greater detail with the same resolution:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd10/#x3

So you may be looking at the limitation of the current sensor technology.

Cheers

[S230]

Post some samples with full exif data
I will try and retake some sample photos side by side and compare. Then all you experts here can give some feedback to judge. I will try and make the photos as identical as possible. All I need to do is wait and get a chance to borrow my friend's D70.
I did download off sample photos (Canon and Nik*n) taken by other folks and still Canon seems a bit soft. I don't mind at all as long as I know it is not something I am doing wrong.

[S230]

If you want extreme sharpness you should consider sigma SD 10. Their sensor is 3 colors per pixel and allows greater detail with the same resolution:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd10/#x3

Nice article but cannot afford such technology yet. Maybe when digital cameras are offered in Dollar stores.

[MarkH]

It won't be "sharp sharp" no matter what you do. Because the CCD or CMOS sensors don't capture all 3 colours per pixel they interpolate it to create full color image.

Of course some detail is lost.

If you want extreme sharpness you should consider sigma SD 10. Their sensor is 3 colors per pixel and allows greater detail with the same resolution:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd10/#x3

So you may be looking at the limitation of the current sensor technology.

I don't think so!

The SD10 only has 3.4 MPix, the Canon 20D has 8 MPix. If you down sample a 20D image to 3.4 MPix it should easily match the sharpness of the Sigma SD10.

[S230]

I cannot help reading this and thought of sharing it.
On another site, the battle continued and there were a few good points that I agree on.
I am feeling much better that I am using the Canon but still need the 50mm f/1.8 lens to really know the quality.

http://forums.macrumors.com/printthread.php?s=&threadid=60252
"rt_brained 02-13-2004 10:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The debate could go on forever. Nikon fans will certainly try to thumb their noses at Canon's Digital Rebel/300D for feeling "cheap". But Canon introduced this camera back in July or August of last year and it's widely considered the most significant digital camera announcement for 2003. It was the first SLR-type digital camera with the kind of street credentialed chip that weekend 35mm film camera holdouts were waiting for and is essentially a stripped down, consumer-friendly version of their vaunted 10D.

So credit Nikon for showing up late to the party (nearly seven months later) to one-up Canon with their own entry-level SLR-based digicam. You can try to compare the D70 to Canon's 10D, a nearly year-old camera, but it doesn't make up for Nikon's inferior chips or poor customer service."

[nemesis099]

It won't be "sharp sharp" no matter what you do. Because the CCD or CMOS sensors don't capture all 3 colours per pixel they interpolate it to create full color image.

Of course some detail is lost.

If you want extreme sharpness you should consider sigma SD 10. Their sensor is 3 colors per pixel and allows greater detail with the same resolution:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd10/#x3

So you may be looking at the limitation of the current sensor technology.

Cheers

I believe that the foveon X3 sensor is the desing for the future. But I've heard mixed review of the sigma cameras. I still think that this type of sensor could work its way into the market and when after it is developed a little more it will start coming in more cameras. It just needs to gain some acceptance from a larger company.

I believe Nikon buys the sensor from Sony (correct me if I am wrong) so I could see them switching over more readily then Canon since they aren't developing them as much. (I could be wrong on this and if I am correct me).

[Nightcrawler]

I hear that the D70 has a weaker AA (Anti-Aliasing) filter on it than the Canon DSLRs. That would explain a possible increase in sharpness. The increase in sharpness however comes at the cost of increased moire.

[OneManArmy]

I agree that there is really no comparison between the two, but as for image sharpness, it does seem that Nik*n is little sharper but when it comes to sports and Fabrics (Indoors), Canon is better at picking up images it should look like.

Last night I've tried taking photos at some text on my wall, and if looking really closely, it is not really sharp. Still really good but just not sharp. I already cranked the sharpness level to max.
Do you really think the D70 is sharper than the 20d???

[S230]

I hear that the D70 has a weaker AA (Anti-Aliasing) filter on it than the Canon DSLRs. That would explain a possible increase in sharpness. The increase in sharpness however comes at the cost of increased moire.
Yes that is what I also heard too but did not know how that can affect Canon's sharpness.

[S230]

Do you really think the D70 is sharper than the 20d???
For some reason it it just seems a bit. Slightly and as jasonhuebert's posting, it may be the possible cause.

[merrrrjig]

canon for life!

[HKFEVER]

Yes that is what I also heard too but did not know how that can affect Canon's sharpness.I heard this too, but why Canon has a strong filter?
I found my previous 300D's filter is weaker than 1D MKII.
So the sharpness of the 300D is better the 1D MKII.

Not sure how strong the filter in the 1DS MKII yet.

[kawter2]

I hear that the D70 has a weaker AA (Anti-Aliasing) filter on it than the Canon DSLRs. That would explain a possible increase in sharpness. The increase in sharpness however comes at the cost of increased moire.

look at the drainpipe on the house
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review/DSC_0005.JPG


in this one the peak of the pointy building
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review/DSC_0014.JPG


That is unacceptable IMO



taken from
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review

[Medic1]

I recently came into the world of photography (well SLR anyway). I have owned many P&S film and digital cameras and was very unsure of which brand/make and model to buy. I bought my DRebel on the recommendation of a professional photographer who uses it as a backup camera to his 10D when he is shooting weddings (most all indoor). He has never had a problem with exposure indoors.

I am by no means an expert on the issue, but I did alot of comparison shopping before I bought and consulted alot of knowledgable people in person. I have not had any problems with my DRebel (either outdoor or indoor). SInce I had little experience with Digital SLR's not only did I read the manual, but also a magic lantern Rebel guide (found it very useful) and bought a Digital photography textbook to teach myself about the finer points of proper settings etc. I am learning slowly, but surely. I am a read and learn kinda person...maybe you are not...thats cool too. But if your not....just play with your settings and see what you get....I think you will be happy with your DRebel once you learn how to "make it work for you".

[S230]

SInce I had little experience with Digital SLR's not only did I read the manual, but also a magic lantern Rebel guide (found it very useful).
Thanks for the feedback. This is very useful because it's from practical experience and practical comparison. Maybe is just a setting or just faulty camera. What does this "Magic Latern Rebel Guide" cover?
Also, what is the Lens you are using with your Digtal Rebel?

[S230]

look at the drainpipe on the house
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review/DSC_0005.JPG


in this one the peak of the pointy building
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review/DSC_0014.JPG


That is unacceptable IMO



taken from
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d70-review
I have no access to this site. Is there an alternative?

[malla1962]

Should I switch form a Canon Digital Rebel (EOS-300D) to a Nikon D70?
Can someone PLEASE tell me why I should still keep using Canon.

I have been battling this question for several months now. As for point and shoot camera, Canon is still my choice but when it comes to SLR, it's a different story.

Eventhough my friend had been telling me to get a Nikon, I still went for Canon because I liked the S230. I just purchased my Digital Rebel 2 months ago and noticed that the photos I am taking is dark and not as sharp/clear as the Nikon. This was compared side by side with the Nikon. Eventhough both was using the kit lens, Nikon does have a better kit lens than Canon but does it make such a difference? I borrowed a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Series Lens (Expensive) but still especially when indoors, it does not seem to compare to even the kit lens that came with the Nikon. (The lens was tested with both the Digital Rebel 300D and the new 20D.) Why?

My biggest debate is with the Lens. Should I make any future investment in Canon because they do not seem to have as much Lens to choose from whereas Nikon can use Lens from several generations ago.

What really made me to start swinging towards another brand was the lack of support/response I got from Canon. They also made no attempt or offer me incentive because my rebate was off by 2 days (Literally).

- S230hi there,one of my mates has a d70 and he finds it unerexposes by about half a stop, but thats not a problem. when shooting in raw it maintains the highlights.when i had my 300d i found this about the same.i dont think it is a real problem

[MDJAK]

I was originally a Nikon devotee. I owned the F100 film camera (that's a bit redundant, no?) and traded it in when digital became mainstream. I had Nikon glass, so I naturally bought the D100. Post processing, the pictures were great. Pre, they were underexposed and looked flat. I was quite disappointed in the camera.

I traded in all my glass and the D100 for the 10d. I was glad I did. Although I felt the Nikon control layout was more user friendly, the pictures were better from the Canon.

I then sold the 10d for the 20d, just bought another lens, so now I have four, and love the Canon.

But as somebody else said a few pages back, they're all good and you can't go wrong with either brand.

[ezzie62]

As a photography teacher, i can assure you that there is basically NO difference in image quality. Top of the line in each case you NEVER could tell them apart with your eye...it's impossible. Canon is always a bit cheaper...Nikon snob appeal, so pay more for the same thing. Canon support is far superior to Nikon's. Enjoy your canon and stop seeing what isn't there. BTW, always try to get a pro L lens. Best! steve ezzie62@aol.com check my site imagesbysteve.com

[S230]

Interesting. Some say both cameras are same and others say that image quality is better because Canon makes their own sensor. I am leaning back towards Canon because I am seeing more folks changing back from Nik*n to Canon. The final decision is when I get the 50mm 1.8 lens. (Already made that my wish to be under the Xmas Tree... :) )

[S230]

I finally got my 50mm f/1.8 lens for xmas.
I also purchased the Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 lens.

Hopefully within a week I can have some photos to compare with each other.

Another thing that I am thinking of why to keep the Canon is future upgrades. Since I have no lens and if I am to start, I wanted to buy lens that are wider selection in the digital world and it seems like Canon has quite a bit. Nik*n still have more manual lens that are compatible but for the price value, it's not too much difference.
Another point is that upgrading from 300D to 20D when I am ready does not cost as much as upgrading Nik*n bodies.

[S230]

Finally Tested my new lens and found new problems and hope.
Some images are so sharp, that I feel I can touch it. I can even enlarge to 400% and still very clear.
The bad news is that most times, autofocusing is bad. I think I may just have a backfocusing or not aligned properly.
Any suggestions how to test and verify this?

[redbutt]

Finally Tested my new lens and found new problems and hope.
Some images are so sharp, that I feel I can touch it. I can even enlarge to 400% and still very clear.
The bad news is that most times, autofocusing is bad. I think I may just have a backfocusing or not aligned properly.
Any suggestions how to test and verify this?

There's a thread in this forum somewhere about a non-scientific, but pretty decent way to check your lens focus. Search around for it. Also, if the focus issue was with the Sigma, try forcing the focus to the center AF point. Sometimes there are issues with 3rd party lenses such that the AF is not perfect unless its the center point that is used.

DB

[S230]

There's a thread in this forum somewhere about a non-scientific, but pretty decent way to check your lens focus. Search around for it. Also, if the focus issue was with the Sigma, try forcing the focus to the center AF point. Sometimes there are issues with 3rd party lenses such that the AF is not perfect unless its the center point that is used.

DB
Thanks. I should had been more specific. The lens I am using is the Canon 50mm 1.8 MKII. I am using the Centre AF point and notice that I do need to focus on lower right to that to get in focus. But unfortunately this is not consistent therefore I am clueless.
I will try to search for the non-scientific thread but if you come across it, let me know.
Thanks.

[Johnny V]

Here's the link for testing focus:

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

It confirmed my observation that focus was off on all my lenses.

[S230]

Here's the link for testing focus:

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

It confirmed my observation that focus was off on all my lenses.
Thanks. I will definitely try this out tonight.

[S230]

Guess I am not the only person complaining about the focusing problem or the images being too soft.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10526&page=4&pp=20

[redbutt]

But unfortunately this is not consistent therefore I am

You are doing your tests with a tripod right? And, using manual focus?

[S230]

Yup. I tried both. The DOF is quite accurate but the images does look a little soft and not sure what I am doing wrong. The photo was taken at exactly 45 degrees angle and at 45cm - 50cm distance (Just enough for the AutoFocus to be able to lock onto target).

I also uploaded the image (reduced size) of what was taken.
However, what is consistent is that the focusing is really soft and the image is not very sharp. Both manual and auto.

[kawter2]

IMO the line just in front of the center looks in focus.

It also looks like the paper or the camers angle is not exactly vertical, the bottom was closer to the lens than the top. because the bottom 1/2 of the photo seems to be on a diferent focal length, the same lines are not the same sharpness. At 1.8 @ 45cm, If you are off even a hair, it will be extremly noticable.

[kawter2]

This might help a little.

[Johnny V]

Yup. I tried both. The DOF is quite accurate but the images does look a little soft and not sure what I am doing wrong. The photo was taken at exactly 45 degrees angle and at 45cm - 50cm distance (Just enough for the AutoFocus to be able to lock onto target)
I also uploaded the image (reduced size) of what was taken.
However, what is consistent is that the focusing is really soft and the image is not very sharp. Both manual and auto.

Looks like the auto focus is front focusing...not back foucsing as with my lenses.

The manual focus image is fairly good - maybe a touch front focus but I would not worry about it. I'd worry about the auto focus!

[Bruce Watson]

If you prefer the Nikon, go for it.

As pointed out by others, the issues you describe sound more like learning curve than equipment problems, so be prepared for some disappointments with either brand if you are not prepared to learn how to use it properly.

[Johnny V]

As pointed out by others, the issues you describe sound more like learning curve than equipment problems, so be prepared for some disappointments with either brand if you are not prepared to learn how to use it properly.

Nope...I think the problem is the lens/camera and not S230 user error.

All three lenses of mine have problems too...I noticed this before testing my lenses and I've been shooting film and digital for a long time.

[DocFrankenstein]

Up to you to decide.

But if you choose Nikon, we'll break in quietly and break your ankles. :p ;)

[S230]

This might help a little.
Wow. thanks for analyzing and mapping out the lines. This really helps.
I am surprised at the result because my tripod had a water bubble to say what is center and also the paper is also placed on something flat. I will retry again tonight also by taking some photos and see how sharp is sharp.

[S230]

Thanks for the support. If I was not seriously thinking of Canon, I would not had purchased the two additional lens. The Sigma lens, I don't really notice any problem which is odd because the photo I took was quite sharp. I did try out the Nik*n and it too is having backfocusing problems and this is probably due to the 3d matrix it uses.
The biggest reason for me so serious on thinking of Canon is because of future upgrades. Canon has more models to choose from and the next model up closest is the 20D and that doesn't have to be a mortgage.

Attached is a photo I took from the Sigma Lens;
ExposureTime : 1/30Sec
FNumber : F5.0
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ExifVersion : 0221
DateTimeOriginal : 2005:01:03 10:59:44
DateTimeDigitized : 2005:01:03 10:59:44
ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
CompressedBitsPerPixel : 3/1 (bit/pixel)
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/30Sec
ApertureValue : F5.0
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MaxApertureValue : F5.0
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fired
FocalLength : 190.00(mm)

[snapster]

Hi everyone I'm new to this forum. I find this discussion of choice between the Rebel and the D70 very interesting, because after three weeks of comparison I bought the rebel because the image quality was better. Three of the camera stores I went in had side by side 8x10 prints from the rebel and the D70, and in my eyes the rebel won every time. As far as construction the D70 felt much more comfortable in my hands and seems to be built much better.

[Johnny V]

I too like the Rebel images much better than the D70. I could have easily stayed with Nikon as I have many Nikon lenses...but it was Canon's image quality that got to me. Just wish I didn't have the back focusing problems with my Canon lenses.

Yes the D70 feels more solid and is better built than the Rebel. But I'm using the Rebel to get my feet wet with Canon and then in the summer buy the 20D. Also with all the rebates my Rebel only cost me $480.00US. I'll use the Rebel as my backup camera eventually.

[Pekka]

Wow. thanks for analyzing and mapping out the lines. This really helps.
I am surprised at the result because my tripod had a water bubble to say what is center and also the paper is also placed on something flat. I will retry again tonight also by taking some photos and see how sharp is sharp.

The method you use can not be accurate because the area you focus in has depth, even paper structure will fool the AF. See http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10526 for the test Canon uses (actually they have a newer version of the test but the principle is same).

Also, note that 1/DoF error is ACCEPTABLE with 300D.

[Bruce Watson]

Nope...I think the problem is the lens/camera and not S230 user error.

All three lenses of mine have problems too...I noticed this before testing my lenses and I've been shooting film and digital for a long time.

As have I, but I think the telling comment in the original post is about the photos being "too dark".

That has nothing to do with lenses.

DSLR's are amazingly complex equipement relative to point and shoot but that comes with the price of learning how to use it properly.

Cruise through any of the forums (this one, Dpreview, Galbraith) Johnny and note how many new DSLR users (of any brand) are having problems. A few may be faulty equipment, but the majority are caused by lack of knowledge or being overwhelmed by the choices and options that these cameras provide.

In the right hands, either the Canon or Nikon are very capable.

[xdjoynerx]

the 300d is a better camera. keep it.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

Asking a Canon forum if you should change to Nikon is just plain stupid, it's noit like your going to get a non biased response. Just buy what you feel is the best for you, heck why not look at Konica Minolta or Olympus the 7D and the E1 are both excellent cameras and will not let you down.

[S230]

Asking a Canon forum if you should change to Nikon is just plain stupid, it's noit like your going to get a non biased response. Just buy what you feel is the best for you, heck why not look at Konica Minolta or Olympus the 7D and the E1 are both excellent cameras and will not let you down.
I also asked Nik*n forum and get mixed results too. Some people I've spoken with does own both the 300D and the D70. The D70 so far is better than the 300D but I am not convinced that image quality is better. The D70 does have better performance and more bells and whistles but my bottom line is the image quality. Sharpness and lighting is a major factor and what I am trying to find out is why does the D70 images seem to be brigher than the 300D. The main deciding factor why I want to stay with Canon is the next model up which is the 20D but I am just surprised why still the images are so dark.

[S230]

To test the sharpness and brightness, I have attached a photo I've taken of an old Intel 186 Motherboard. I had 3 bright lights pointing to it and yet it still looks very dull. Canon does seem to be more on the warmer side (Red) while Nik*n seems on the colder colour (Blue).

Small size of image 291kb
http://ca.geocities.com/belted_kingfisher2003/186/mini00007.jpg

LARGE size of image - 3.75MB
http://ca.geocities.com/belted_kingfisher2003/186/full00007.jpg

ExposureTime : 1/40Sec
FNumber : F3.5
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ExifVersion : 0221
DateTimeOriginal : 2005:01:05 23:13:30
DateTimeDigitized : 2005:01:05 23:13:30
ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
CompressedBitsPerPixel : 3/1 (bit/pixel)
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/40Sec
ApertureValue : F3.5
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MaxApertureValue : F1.8
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fired
FocalLength : 50.00(mm)

[davidwegs]

Hi S230,

Fistly, the d70 is proably a better built and more feature rich camera than the 300d. However, your image quality being the deciding factor, I would have to say the canon chip is superior and, used well, will render a more pleasing result.

I switched fron Nik n when I went Digital. I began with the 300d. I changed the body 3 times to get one that focused on target. I began also with the kit lens and quickly upgraded to a 50/1.4 to see how good it could be. WOW. there it was, the quality I had heard of and seen.

So to recap what you will likely already have figured out, Nik ns d70 is a great camera. Canons 300d is also great and (for the $$$) Canon is IMO better image quality. Keep the system that most appeals and find your preferred lens kit as time goes by.

[davidwegs]

Just in case this is more simple than I imagined your original question was.

A camera will try to bring its metered subject to be exposed @18% grey. so with the mother board and little contrast (read; bright/dark) it will seem dull (as close to 18% grey as the camera can make it), just a thought.

[sp00g3]

Nikon D70 > Canon Rebel
Nikon Kit lens > Canon Kit lens

The Nikon D70 is still a more capable camera than the Rebel in terms of feature set, versatility and speed. It is a few hundred dollars more compared to the Rebel, so this should be taken into consideration too.

Both cameras will produce wonderful images in the right hands. In the end, its up to you whether you want to invest in Nikon glass or Canon g"L"ass :-p

Ro1


Don't forget, the D70 doesn't have a battery grip. My thoughts are, if N*kon can't justify a battery grip for thier entry level DSLR, what other Accessories do they skimp on? Personally, Just not being able to have a battery grip is enough for me to go Canon for entry DSLR. I have used the N*kon D70, and it's a fine camera, but I noticed that with its kit lens, there is some nasty focus hunting that the Canon kit lense doesn't do quite as much. Also, it's slightly slower on focusing. I sure hope you won't be taking any photos of animals or babies, otherwise you may have a tough time with a sharp photo.

[S230]

Just in case this is more simple than I imagined your original question was.

A camera will try to bring its metered subject to be exposed @18% grey. so with the mother board and little contrast (read; bright/dark) it will seem dull (as close to 18% grey as the camera can make it), just a thought.
Thanks.. I will try using the custom metering by using a 18% grey card found on the back of a photography book I am reading. I am using the Tungsten setting because of the lights I am using to shine on it.

[S230]

Don't forget, the D70 doesn't have a battery grip. My thoughts are, if N*kon can't justify a battery grip for thier entry level DSLR, what other Accessories do they skimp on? Personally, Just not being able to have a battery grip is enough for me to go Canon for entry DSLR. I have used the N*kon D70, and it's a fine camera, but I noticed that with its kit lens, there is some nasty focus hunting that the Canon kit lense doesn't do quite as much. Also, it's slightly slower on focusing. I sure hope you won't be taking any photos of animals or babies, otherwise you may have a tough time with a sharp photo.
Good point. Anyone have any suggestion where I can get a really cheap (Price) battery grip?

[scottbergerphoto]

http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=299354&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Scott

[S230]

http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=299354&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Scott
Wow.. this is interesting because there seems to be many ex-Nik*n users that are switching over to Canon. Some with many years experience using Nik*n (40 years).
little hard to believe.

[Johnny V]

Wow.. this is interesting because there seems to be many ex-Nik*n users that are switching over to Canon. Some with many years experience using Nik*n (40 years).
little hard to believe.

Been with Nikon since I was 18 years old...now I'm 47. Time flies.

[kawter2]

Go into a camera store and ask the following 2 questions.
Q1: Can I see your used Nik*n lenses
A1: Sure right here, we have all of these.

Q2: Can i see your used Canon lenses?
A2: We don't have many but here is one...


You think it is an coincidence that stores have tons of used Nik*n Glass and Very few Canon... PEOPLE ARE DUMPING NIK*N

[S230]

Go into a camera store and ask the following 2 questions.
Q1: Can I see your used Nik*n lenses
A1: Sure right here, we have all of these.

Q2: Can i see your used Canon lenses?
A2: We don't have many but here is one...


You think it is an coincidence that stores have tons of used Nik*n Glass and Very few Canon... PEOPLE ARE DUMPING NIK*N
That's a very intersting point that I did not think about and is really good. I would had thought that people upgraded so there are many used ones. I did infact check the used lens and truly there are lots of Nik*n while there are very few Canon ones. I always thought that it's something to do with mass production.

[S230]

I am now 70% leaning back towards Canon. It's just still the lighting and focusing issue. It just seems the images are a bit soft. I will keep trying.

[4walls]

I am now 70% leaning back towards Canon. It's just still the lighting and focusing issue.
It just seems the images are a bit soft. I will keep trying.

Well, some interesting discussion here. I am not surprised that you are leaning towards
Canon, you did post this discussion on a Canon forum after all.

I have read a lot on this subject here and on Nik*n forums as well. Also, I am a long time
Canon user of film SLRs and more recently the G2 and then the G3. I was contemplating
the move to the DRebel and bought one almost a year ago. I had it for about two weeks
and returned it to the store for a refund. At the time I felt the G3 was doing the job for
me and I could not justify the dSLR.

Since that time I have done considerable research on the Canon and Nik*n dSLRs. Also,
my bro-n-law is a pro wedding photographer who shoots nothing but Nik*n (btw, all his
competitors shoot Nik*n as well... very few Canon DSLR wedding shooters in his city).

So I looked at DPREVIEW and compared images and looked at their conclusions. It
seems to me that DPREVIEW (which I find to be pro-Canon) preferred the D70 over the
Rebel. Image quality was very close and perhaps better in some cases for the D70
(IMO).

I went back to the store and looked at the Rebel, D70 and the 20D. The 20D was just
wishful thinking because it was too much money. The D70 "feels" way better in my
hands. No comparison. The lens on the D70 is smooth, quiet and fast. The Rebel lens
is for sale all over eBay and my local Buy&Sell magazine (I think that says it all about
that lens). Nik*n put a good lens on their camera, and Canon cheaped out!

There are also other features... the metering is far advanced in the D70, the flash sync
up to 1/500 on the D70, compressed RAW, wireless flash with the SB600 or 800...

There is often discussion about Canon being first... I don't care who was first...
both cameras (D70 and Rebel) are available NOW and I think the D70 (which was not
first) is a little better. For me, this will likely be my primary camera for a VERY LONG
time and the build quality seems better and the argument that Canon will come out with
improvements before Nik*n will is not a consideration. I will not be buying the very next
"improved" camera from either manufacturer, so whatever is better NOW is what I
looked at.

So, having said all that (if you can follow my disjointed thought processes), I went out
yesterday and bought a D70! My daughter had her 9th birthday last night and that was
my first opportunity to use it. My wife had her Canon A70 as well. I love the dSLR response
when it comes to shooting candid shots. I turned the D70 on and BANG, I could shoot
pics immediately. If I noticed someone looking down or blinking as I was shooting, I
fired off another shot immediately.

It is painfully apparent that I require an external flash for indoor shots, but for now that
will have to wait (budget issue). I shot most shots in JPG for now. I did try out RAW
for a couple. BTW, a little annoying is the fact that the D70 does not come with its own
RAW conversion software! You have to buy the upgrade. I am using Photoshop CS, so
not an issue for me anyway.

[S230]

There is often discussion about Canon being first... I don't care who was first... both cameras (D70 and Rebel) are available NOW and I think the D70 (which was not first) is a little better.
Thanks for the info. It's great to hear from both sides. I have also searched on Nik*n forums also and one important thing is why pros are getting rid of their gear to switch over. This is a very costly move but still people are doing it.
I do agree that even I have to conclude that the D70 is a much better camera than the 300D (Kit verses Kit). But if I do plan on investing on lens and accessories, Nik*n doen't seems to have anything better except the D2X. I just don't get why their pro camera D2H is only a 4MP while Canon's next up is 8MP (ie., 1Ds). The MegaPixel itself is an important part. If I keep the 300D, then my next model up would be the 20D which is again better than the D70.

[4walls]

Well, Nik*n has the D2X now as well... a 12MP camera, and the D100 replacement is expected soon.

[S230]

Seems like Nik*n is slipping and falling behind Canon. But why are many people switching over to Canon?
The D70 is a great camera and better than the 300D. But I hate to be buying lens and stuck with one particular company.
I also heard that the new Digital Rebel 330D is soon to be released.

[4walls]

Either way when you start buying lenses, you will be "stuck".
Nikon easily has enough lenses for the average user.

If you are pro and need the full line of Canon lenses....

[S230]

[QUOTE=4walls]Either way when you start buying lenses, you will be "stuck".
Nikon easily has enough lenses for the average user.[QUOTE]
Does Nik*n produce more lens than Canon?

[xp153]

Stay with Canon!
I am currently a Nikon film camera user, who is about to switch to Canon Digital.
The new EOS 20D is a very hot piece of machinery. Canon also makes better lenses, for a better price. I am currently looking at these 3 as they all have the 77mm filter size.
EF 17-40mm f/4L, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L, EF 400mm f/5.6L all used at KEH.
Canon is a much larger company that has more resources available, and can be more competitive, which means that you pay less.

[4walls]

Either way when you start buying lenses, you will be "stuck".
Nikon easily has enough lenses for the average user.
Does Nik*n produce more lens than Canon?
No, I am sure that Canon has a larger line... but my point was, how many lenses
are you going to need. I am sure Nikon has more than enough to satisfy the
average user.

Oh, one other reason for the D70... REAR CURTAIN SYNC, if you do flash
photography that is. I know, you can use the Rebel hacked firmware to
enable that, but I don't think I would be comfortable hacking my firmware.

[mdude85]

It better be for about 2x's the price!!! I always get frustrated with this because people compare the D70 to either the 200D that is half the price of the 10D Which is discontinued. You will be paying about $1100 after rebate for the kit, as opposed to a 300D kit of about $600

$1100 is a high price for the D70 kit after rebate, and $600 is a low price for the 300D kit after rebate. You can't really compare those two prices...

the D70 is a better camera than the Digital Rebel, IMO...the D70 is geared more toward professionals..I might compare the D70 to the Canon 10D, which is a better camera than the 300D. The D70 is built better and has more unlocked features.

[mdude85]

I also asked Nik*n forum and get mixed results too. Some people I've spoken with does own both the 300D and the D70. The D70 so far is better than the 300D but I am not convinced that image quality is better. The D70 does have better performance and more bells and whistles but my bottom line is the image quality. Sharpness and lighting is a major factor and what I am trying to find out is why does the D70 images seem to be brigher than the 300D. The main deciding factor why I want to stay with Canon is the next model up which is the 20D but I am just surprised why still the images are so dark.

If your bottom line is image quality, then this needs to turn into a lens discussion, not a D70 versus 300D discussion.

[4walls]

Well said...
If your bottom line is image quality, then this needs to turn into a lens discussion, not a D70 versus 300D discussion.
...I am surprised that whenever this discussion takes place that there are people
on a Canon forum who will actually give an unbiased opinion of other camera makes.
Seems to me that other brand forums viciously attack posts like this. This is what
makes this forum better than others IMO.

[S230]

Well said...

...I am surprised that whenever this discussion takes place that there are people
on a Canon forum who will actually give an unbiased opinion of other camera makes.
Seems to me that other brand forums viciously attack posts like this. This is what
makes this forum better than others IMO.
This is why I am also leaning more for the Canon because of the forum support I get. I tried searching for Nik*n and I get very little forums compared to Canon's.

[S230]

I looked at some of the photos taken with my friend's 20D and outdoor shots or places with lots of lights, the photos look amazing. I am still trying to figure out why indoors seems blury. Maybe the AutoFocus is not as good for indoors.

[mdude85]

Well said...

...I am surprised that whenever this discussion takes place that there are people
on a Canon forum who will actually give an unbiased opinion of other camera makes.
Seems to me that other brand forums viciously attack posts like this. This is what
makes this forum better than others IMO.

I have a lot of respect for all top quality optics companies -- Canon, Nikon, Contax, Minolta, Hasselblad, Zeiss, Leica etc etc. At the end of the day they didn't turn into hugely successful companies with fantastic reputations for nothing. Nikon can compete with the best from Canon. Do I prefer a Nikon over Canon? I would have on the chance that I bought a Nikon SLR instead of a Canon. It really makes no difference to me, except that I found that the Nikon gear was a little more expensive and I am working on a budget. Do I know why almost everyone at sports events uses white lenses? No I am not sure. It might be because everyone else uses them, and no one wants to look like a bloke and use something else. It's kind of a cycle you know?

[mdude85]

This is why I am also leaning more for the Canon because of the forum support I get. I tried searching for Nik*n and I get very little forums compared to Canon's.

NIKONIANS is huge, way huger than POTN forums.

www.nikonians.com

[S230]

Do I know why almost everyone at sports events uses white lenses? No I am not sure. It might be because everyone else uses them, and no one wants to look like a bloke and use something else. It's kind of a cycle you know?
As to White lens, I was told that it's because of something to do with heat.
When taking photos on a Bright Hot sunny day, black absorb heat while White lens will keep the lens a bit cooler. Under long-time exposure to heat, can cause problems while white gives a better percentage. I think it's also a status thing because it's not cheap lugging one of those heavy lens around.

[S230]

NIKONIANS is huge, way huger than POTN forums.

www.nikonians.com
Thanks. I will check it out.

[Pete Nic]

Frget your D70 go and have a look at a 20D plus you can re use lenses.

[S230]

Frget your D70 go and have a look at a 20D plus you can re use lenses.
I agree because this is why I am probably going to stick with Canon. I can reuse the parts like even the batteries which is important.
The D70 I admit is a better build and probably better features than the 300D. My question is still I don't believe that there should be much difference in image quality between the two.
The disappointing thing is that Canon "Cheaped" out on the kit lens. But according to some other resources, the kit lens is a "Wolf in Sheep clothes". Is the 300D kit lens comparable with the d70 lens?

[Ballen Photo]

I don't believe that there should be much difference in image quality between the two.
The disappointing thing is that Canon "Cheaped" out on the kit lens. But according to some other resources, the kit lens is a "Wolf in Sheep clothes". Is the 300D kit lens comparable with the d70 lens?Why not take your compact flash card with you to the dealer and have them set BOTH the D70 & 300D on the counter with 50mm 1.8 lenses on each(Not the kit lenses). You then take some controlled shots of the same subject, under the same lighting, with the same settings. Try shooting varied settings also, just insure that each camera is set equal. Set something in the photos to indicate Canon or N***n, so you'll know which was taken by camera C or N later.:rolleyes:
Once you've done this, you can take your card home, load the images on your computer, and even print them. This way you'll see the end results for yourself. :cool:
-Bruce

[S230]

Why not take your compact flash card with you to the dealer and have them set BOTH the D70 & 300D on the counter with 50mm 1.8 lenses on each(Not the kit lenses). You then take some controlled shots of the same subject, under the same lighting, with the same settings. Try shooting varied settings also, just insure that each camera is set equal. Set something in the photos to indicate Canon or N***n, so you'll know which was taken by camera C or N later.:rolleyes:
Once you've done this, you can take your card home, load the images on your computer, and even print them. This way you'll see the end results for yourself. :cool:
-Bruce
I did do this but at home instead. My friend owns the D70 and another owns the 20D and I have the 300D. Both the 20D and 300D seems soft and blury at low light whereas the D70 is sharper. I really doubt that Canon's CMOS sensor would differ that much.

[S230]

Came across this and seems like someone did exactly what I've done.
We purchased the 300D immediately. We did do research earlier as to what is better D70 or 300D but later decided to go with the 300D becasue of the future.

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2293&page=1&pp=10

Also, came across this info which can answer the focusing problem:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009F5R
"I feel that Canon have let us down with regard to this recomposing problem, because Focus Lock (as described on p.63) does not mean 'Focus Lock unless the camera senses something moving'. It should lock as described! Canon claim there isn't a problem - I disagree. "

[S230]

I had finally decided to stay with Canon! (90%)
After the firmware upgrade, it certainly made a difference. The camera is more like a "wolf in sheep clothes" and is great.
Thanks to everyone that gave me valuable advice and suggestions.
Also, the support and information I get is amazing.

:)

btw, I've labeled the camera too.. :)

[4walls]

I had finally decided to stay with Canon! (90%)
After the firmware upgrade, it certainly made a difference. The camera is more like a "wolf in sheep clothes" and is great.
Thanks to everyone that gave me valuable advice and suggestions.
Also, the support and information I get is amazing.
Well, I for one, am not surprised. As was said earlier... each company
produces excellent equipment. I am sure you will be happy with your
new camera.

[johnellisphotography]

Holy Moly theres a lot of replies here. I didnt even time to read all of them. For what its worth(not much ... hehe) the reason i sold my D100 and went for a 20D and 1DMKII was that i got sick and tired of Nik * n leaving me hanging for a fast high res camera. Still dont have one. The D2X is not out yet and even when it is... its still a comprimise. The extra pixels on a small sensor probabaly wont offer any more resolution due to lens resolution and its still not fast. Thats my take on it. They let me down, they left me hanging. Canon has had high res for about two and a half or three years now and nik is just now offering an alternative that is still way out of the price range of non-professionals. Stick with who takes care of you.

[S230]

Holy Moly theres a lot of replies here. I didnt even time to read all of them. For what its worth(not much ... hehe) the reason i sold my D100 and went for a 20D and 1DMKII was that i got sick and tired of Nik * n leaving me hanging for a fast high res camera. Still dont have one. The D2X is not out yet and even when it is... its still a comprimise. The extra pixels on a small sensor probabaly wont offer any more resolution due to lens resolution and its still not fast. Thats my take on it. They let me down, they left me hanging. Canon has had high res for about two and a half or three years now and nik is just now offering an alternative that is still way out of the price range of non-professionals. Stick with who takes care of you.
Thanks for the info. I agree with you and infact it's very true that customer service is the ultimate decision of the final purchase. This is why I went for the Canon and as a bonus, few other people are basing their purchase based on my experience and so far one have purchased the same camera because I did.

[phili1]

If you have it in your mind that the NIkon is better, then Canon does not stand a chance.
I have a friend who has the D 70 and does not like it it is a very slow Camera but then he does not like the Canon 20D or 10D and no matter what you say you will not change his mind. WE went on a photo Eagle shoot me with the 20D and 100-400 L and him with the D2H and an 800 mm range and my post are just as good and in some cases better and I have to crop more.

Another person has the Canon 60D and just went the the NIkon D2H and is posting comparison pictures and everybody is telling him the Canon shots are better.

I have seen Rebel shots I wish I had gotten with my 20D. The only difference is it is missing features other wise its sensor is awsome.

My point is a Camera wont take a dark picture, the user does that.
Example: if you have your center of the camera pointed at the sky and depress the shutter half way your going to have a (underexposed)dark bird, you just asked the Camera to meter for the sky. If you use auto, that is your first mistake, always use program. I use AV and let the Camera set the shutter speed,or manual mode when I want to control light but I have to anticiapte where the sun is and how it is going to hit the bird. If the bird has the sun to its back I have to open up 1 to 2 stops or no detail, if the sun is facving the bird and it has a white head I close down 1 stop.

Any Camera straight out of the box will take the same exposure for the same subject. NOw it is up to you to find out how to make it sing.

Anyway I will post a Canon picture for you to review and you tell me the NIkon can take better pictures.

[S230]

Wow.. omg, was the photo taken from the Canon? Really nice and clean shot. What lens did you use? I need to learn more on how to take photos like the one you did.

But does size matter? I noticed the D70 has a bigger lens size than the Canon. 67mm ver 58mm thread size. Would that allow more light in?

Personally I am leaning towards Canon because of future upgrades and the amount of support I am getting (Here in this forum and people around me). As to where the 300D stand, I recently installed the hacked firmware and found it much more useful than I originally expected. The best part was the size of the embedded JPG file within RAW and also the FEC for flash.

[Jon]

But does size matter? I noticed the D70 has a bigger lens size than the Canon. 67mm ver 58mm thread size. Would that allow more light in?

That's the filter size. If there's a corresponding larger aperture size, it might (f/2.8 vs. f/4, for instance). But filter size just tells you . . . how big a filter you'll need to buy.

[4walls]

Wow, what a shot!

Your friend thinks the D70 is too slow? Oh, he is using the D2H. That is not really a fair
comparison though. I think the D70 is faster than the Rebel or the 10D.

You make a good point... in my mind (a dangerous place to venture :) ), it is not the
camera that will make the biggest difference, it is the person behind it.

The Nikons tend to underexpose a little more than the Canon meters though. So you
might see some darker pics from them if you don't make corrections either in your
metering or in the post-processing.

I used a friend's D60 a couple of months ago to take a shot of my wife. It came out
really soft... but I think it was the lens. He was using a Sigma 300mm zoom lens.

Phili1... I would love to hear from you in regards to post processing of this picture you
posted. Did you shoot RAW, did you sharpen (USM) or apply curves, etc? That is an
amazing picture. I was out shooting bald eagles the other day as well (with the camera)
but I missed a great opportunity as one flew right past me :(

If you have it in your mind that the NIkon is better, then Canon does not stand a chance.
I have a friend who has the D 70 and does not like it it is a very slow Camera but then he does not like the Canon 20D or 10D and no matter what you say you will not change his mind. WE went on a photo Eagle shoot me with the 20D and 100-400 L and him with the D2H and an 800 mm range and my post are just as good and in some cases better and I have to crop more.

Another person has the Canon 60D and just went the the NIkon D2H and is posting comparison pictures and everybody is telling him the Canon shots are better.

I have seen Rebel shots I wish I had gotten with my 20D. The only difference is it is missing features other wise its sensor is awsome.

My point is a Camera wont take a dark picture, the user does that.

Any Camera straight out of the box will take the same exposure for the same subject. NOw it is up to you to find out how to make it sing.

Anyway I will post a Canon picture for you to review and you tell me the NIkon can take better pictures.

[S230]

What happened to the photo posted by Phili1? I no longer can see it.

[saikidesign]

Should you switch from Canon to Nikon? It is your decision. Both cameras are good. I shot a wedding with a D70 not long ago and works just fine. I never had a chance to shoot with a Canon Rebel dig but I had a chance to have in my hand. If you compare Rebel and D70, the D70 will feel better in your hand and may have a better image out of the camera but remember, you are dealing with DSLR cameras and you will most of the time need a software to "develop" your final images. If you ask me if you should go to Nikon I would say no. This answer is based today. How know what manufactures are ready to release? Canon invested a lot of money and basically worked alone to develop the sensor for all digital cameras when other shared and sold technology. The result it is visible on hi end pro DSLR cameras. They are faster, lighter and simply better than anybody else out there. The Rebel have a though competitor but also understand that you are looking for 6 to 12 month younger camera that you are comparing to and it is a lot of time for Nikon develop something to compete with Rebel digital. I would with a 10D (great price right now and great camera) or save some cash and go with a new 20D. You will be impressed.
I sold all my Nikon lens and my D100 and bought a Canon 1D Mark II. Today I'm shooting with this great camera but I always have my 10D with me and all my lens are "L" series lens.
Good luck in your decision.
OS.

[Andy_T]

If you still think about changing your DRebel for something else ... why not wait a bit and see if a successor to the DRebel is unveiled?

Best regards,
Andy

[S230]

I had already purchased my Digital Rebel and is really impressed at it so far. The original posting was some time ago and I still had the option of returning it to the store for an upgrade. Now the only choice is to sell it on ebay but I don't think it's necessary because so far, it's proven to be quite good. As "Doc" said earlier, it's probably something to do with the person operating the camera. I agree to a point but still trying to compare image quality side by side with identical lens. I bought the 50mm f/1.8 lens to compare with Nikon's 50mm 1.8 and would like to see side by side which is better using the "DEFAULT" settings.

[rssfhs]

Here is my portfolio of photos taken with my Canon digital rebel to give you an idea of what can be done with one:
http://www.photoforum.ru/rate/user_photos.php?u_id=2543
I have used the Nikon D70 on occasion, but prefer the rebel. :-)

[4walls]

Here is my portfolio of photos taken with my Canon digital rebel to give you an idea of what can be done with one:
http://www.photoforum.ru/rate/user_photos.php?u_id=2543
I have used the Nikon D70 on occasion, but prefer the rebel. :-)
Nice shots.

I can understand why any Canon user would not take to the D70 easily. When
I picked it up, everything seemed backwards. The zoom ring, the way the dial
turned to increase shutter or aperature values, the lens mount, etc.

But now, I love it. It just takes time to convert to a different platform. Like
it was said before though, it is more about the photographer than the equipment.

[S230]

Here is my portfolio of photos taken with my Canon digital rebel to give you an idea of what can be done with one:
http://www.photoforum.ru/rate/user_photos.php?u_id=2543
I have used the Nikon D70 on occasion, but prefer the rebel. :-)
Nice photos... I like the icicles... it's crisp and i liked the "sparks" from it.