Should I ask for money for this pic?

[johndm]

Just got the email below.
Should I ask for some payment for use of my photo, or just give permission to use as a freebie?

regards

John
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Request for permission to use Copyright material

WestOne Services (WestOne) requests permission to reproduce material for which you hold copyright.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/668143/L/ (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/668143/L/)

Material we wish to reproduce the image of Airliner 668143 from your website.

WestOne Services is part of the Department of Education and Training in
Western Australia, a government body responsible for vocational education and training as well as schools from Kindergarten to Post Compulsory Year 12. WestOne's brief is to provide training materials via the internet, television and educational publications.

We are currently putting together a printed resource primarily for Mathematics students for the School of Isolated and Distance Education (SIDE) but in time may be made available at cost recovery only to other educational institutions in Western Australia.

This material will be used in the following publication:

Albebra Module 2

Should you be willing to release this material, we would be most happy to include a suitable acknowledgement.

If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

You may wish to visit our website at www.westone.wa.gov.au (http://www.westone.wa.gov.au).

We hope that you will be able to assist us with this request and look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely

Janice Greenaway
Intellectual Property Co-ordinator
WestOne Services
Department of Education and Training
1 Prospect Place
West Perth WA 6005
Telephone: +61 (08) 9229 5350
Fax: +61 (08) 9227 8393
E Mail: janice.greenaway@westone.wa.gov.au (janice.greenaway@westone.wa.gov.au)



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Message was sent using the mail interface on Airliners.net
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=668143 (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=668143)

To uphold the good reputation of the photographer
community, please try to reply to photo usage requests.

[kawter2]

If they have the resources to draft a letter like that, they should have the resources to pay. It doesn't have to be much, but I think you should at least get something out of it.

From the looks of the letter I didn't get the impression that they were asking for a freebee

just my $.02

[defordphoto]

Sounds like you have a "stock photo" they want. Search the net for staock photo prices and that should get you in the ballpark. It will not be much, but getting in a schoolbook with credits is pretty cool!

[steven]

In this situation do you have to worry about a release for the aircraft owner / pilot?

[gmen]

Should you be willing to release this material, we would be most happy to include a suitable acknowledgement.

I think this is the key line - this tells me that they are probably seeking a freebie.

OK, it's always nice to be published but if they were to buy a high res stock image like this from a run-of-the-mill agency, they would be looking at an invoice for £200 (around aus$500) or more.

Obviously, talk to them and negotiate - just don't sell yourself short. Given that they are a government agency, they will have money but they won't want to spend it!

With regard to model/property release, you will need to satisfy yourself your image is going to be used in an 'editorial' context rather than a commercial (advertising) one. There's plenty of reading matter on this on the net: http://www.alamy.com/help/stock-photography-rel-info.asp for example.

If you agree to sell the image without a release, then ensure your accompanying licence agreement states this - and that it limits their use to the intended purpose and no further.

Hope this helps.

gmen

[Tripod]

Just looked at there web site. They are selling there books so I would sell the photo.

[GenEOS]

Most definitely YES, you need to charge. Don't forget to require copies of the publication as part of your contract with them. What to charge? Look into stock rates. But please do not give your work away for a credit line. A reseasonable rate, or even a discounted rate for self-promotion is better than giving it away. Giving away work, hurts the industry as a whole.

My other question is, Do you hold a model release for the plane and pilot? Selling an image for editorial usage is a bit different than selling one commercially, which is what you would be doing.

If you do not hold a release, I would not sell it or let them use it commercially.

My 2 pennies worth.

[johndm]

Thanks for all the advice chaps.

I'll compose an email based on all your good advise, then wait and see what happens.

Will keep you all posted.

Regards,

John

[johndm]

And the reply as follows...............


John

We are building resource for educational student in Western Australia, the books are not sold for profit, they are sold at cost recovery only, our development is done on very tight budgets and we have no allocations for fees for use of 3rd party copyright, we would however be able to acknowledge you and supply you with a copy of the resource upon completion for your reference.

Hope you are able to help us, if you have any further queries do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

Janice Greenaway
Intellectual Property Co-ordinator
WestOne Services
Department of Education and Training
1 Prospect Place,
WEST PERTH WA 6005
Telephone 61 (08)9229 5350
Fax 61 (08) 9227 8393



So do I let them have it?????

regards

[GenEOS]

Your fee would be part of the "cost" she metioned recovery of. It probably includes her salary, I am sure she isn't giving her time to the book. You have a choice to make. Either give yor work away for nothing, or send a message that legitimate photogs will not be pushed around by publishers. Legitimate firms have budgets built into publishing for art. But, why pay if you can talk someone into doing it for free.

I would send a polite letter back explaining that you also must recover cost by charging for the usage of your work. That you have to charge, resonably, for all your work, even to a non-profit.

Another possibility is that they can give you a tax deductable donation receipt you can use on your taxes for services provided. If that is applicable.

My thoughts..

[kawter2]

Your fee would be part of the "cost" she metioned recovery of. It probably includes her salary, I am sure she isn't giving her time to the book. You have a choice to make. Either give yor work away for nothing, or send a message that legitimate photogs will not be pushed around by publishers. Legitimate firms have budgets built into publishing for art. But, why pay if you can talk someone into doing it for free.

I would send a polite letter back explaining that you also must recover cost by charging for the usage of your work. That you have to charge, resonably, for all your work, even to a non-profit.

Another possibility is that they can give you a tax deductable donation receipt you can use on your taxes for services provided. If that is applicable.

My thoughts..

^ Ditto!!!!!!

[davidwegs]

^ Ditto!!!!!!

And DITTO again.

I think: equipment costs, processsing costs, time costs, then there is the x factor.

Then I think: Published work = bragging rights/sales tool.

MMM, get what you can, but be willing IMHO.

[johndm]

I asked if they would consider a fee for use.................But they pleaded
poverty..guess the Aussie govt are a bit strapped for cash at Christmas time.

Told them they could use it for that one occaision only, they have no rights of ownership, I must have full credit below the picture, and that they send me a copy of the publication.

So am I a whimp or what? http://www.avforums.com/forums/images/smilies/blush.gif

Its the first time for me to get into print, (hopefully not the last), and I promise you all next time I will demand some payment.

Thanks for all your responses guys,

regards

Oh, does anyone want to buy one of these....LOL

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?emailsearch=johnmyers@btinternet.com&sort_order=views&distinct_entry=true

[sGu]

Whereabout and when were those shots taken? I'd love to go shoot some "big birds" from time to time, just never know when n where

[mackb]

I think you did well, I am always taking what friends and family consider to be sellable pictures, but I rarely have anyone offer to buy them from me. Much like you I am hopeful that one day it will be different. I’m not a professional by any means, but this situation brings up a great point for someone like us (non-pro’s that would like some profit from our art). At what point do I put my foot down and say no more free pictures. Another question would be, do I put my foot down on friends and family too (figuratively).

[IndyJeff]

Its the first time for me to get into print, (hopefully not the last)

I am sure they will contact you again now that they know a book which they probably charge $12-19 for and costs them $4-6 to make is all you want for payment. I am sure they have your site bookmarked and will check back next year to see if there is anything they can use again....for free!


They got money, it is in their budget. Of course they want to publish as cheaply as possible, I understand that. One thing she probably didn't tell you too is she probably gets a bonus equal too about 25% of what they would have paid you.

based upon this part of her email to you

John
We are building resource for educational student in Western Australia, the books are not sold for profit, they are sold at cost recovery only, our development is done on very tight budgets and we have no allocations for fees for use of 3rd party copyright, we would however be able to acknowledge you and supply you with a copy of the resource upon completion for your reference.


I would have named a price and it would have been a take it or leave it thing. You would think that the money they saved on hiring a person who can't construct a proper sentence is not really great advertisment for an edumacation book now really. That extra money could have been used to pay for the photography.

[johndm]

I am sure they will contact you again now that they know a book which they probably charge $12-19 for and costs them $4-6 to make is all you want for payment. I am sure they have your site bookmarked and will check back next year to see if there is anything they can use again....for free!


They got money, it is in their budget. Of course they want to publish as cheaply as possible, I understand that. One thing she probably didn't tell you too is she probably gets a bonus equal too about 25% of what they would have paid you.

based upon this part of her email to you



I would have named a price and it would have been a take it or leave it thing. You would think that the money they saved on hiring a person who can't construct a proper sentence is not really great advertisment for an edumacation book now really. That extra money could have been used to pay for the photography.
:oops: Well as I said, this is my first time, promise I'll do better next time OK

[johndm]

Whereabout and when were those shots taken? I'd love to go shoot some "big birds" from time to time, just never know when n where
Various UK airshows, but the majority at Old Warden in Bedfordshire. There is a world famous 'banana' shape display line, which is how some of my shots look air to air.
They have several shows every year, I'll be there in 2005 with my nice new 100-400 L series...:)

[defordphoto]

The real key is they are non-profit. They can always go somewhere else. There are alot of people that are more than willing to donate a photo. A tax deductible receipt would be cool and I'd insist on that. That costs them ZERO and at least gets you a tax break.

My question is though: What else are you planning to do with this photo?