Important event i can't mess up (flash)

[Jonny]

Guys + Gals,

Next week will see my daughters first school carol concert and my wife demands that i record it with my digital rebel.
The problem is that i will not have time to try different settings and i cannot afford to get this wrong or i am a dead man. all she sees is that i have spent a fortune on gear and i should get goods shots however i take them.

The concert will be held indoors in a school hall so lighting is going to be poor so i should (if im not banned) be using a 420ex speedlight with my rebel. My choice of lens will be determined by the distance i find myself from the stage but i have:

Kit lens
28-135 IS
50mm f1.8
70-200L f2.8 IS

I also have an omni bounce for the flash.

Can anyone please tell me what settings i would be better off using to ensure i get some decent shots. I realize it really does depend on lighting but what i am asking is what mode i should use, full auto, AV, etc..etc..
I am really new to flash photography and as i said i really don't want to mess this up.

If you had this kit how would you approach this shoot?

Many thanks

BTW...my rebel is hacked so i have FEC and that flash sync setting..what should i set these to?

[RichardtheSane]

How far from the stage will you be and do you know what the lighting setup will be?

My first instinct is to turn review + histogram on in the camera and shoot in TV mode and 1/125th sec. Keep the flash in full auto and bounce it (assuming the ceiling is low enough/white). Not very creative, but the shot is almost guaranteed.

Shoot raw if your future purchases depend on it!

I said review + histogram so that you can get an idea of how the images look an how the exposure is in a quick glance. Make sure you have spare batteries for camera and flash (ideally use ni-mh for the flash)

[robertwgross]

Go to the event hall early, and ask the event manager or stage hand if they can turn up the lights to normal very early. Then you get your wife or somebody to stand on the stage. You shoot them and view the results on your rear display and view the histogram.

---Bob Gross---

[OneManArmy]

There's no way we can tell you that; you'll have to see fo ryourself what the light is like when you get there as to settings. However, I would adivse this:

From what you say, this isn't the kind of event where they'll be moving around a lot, so use the 1.8

If that's not the case, use the 70-200

Use a custom white balance and/or shoot raw if you have the memory for it.

Indoor shooting in avail light is SOOooo hard.

[Jonny]

I cant seem to get my head around how the TV mode works with the flash.
Example:

Lens 50mm f1.8
If i set it to Av mode i can shoot at f8 @ 1/200 no problem
BUT
if i set to Tv and select 1/200 the camera selects the largest aperture and the display flashes 1.8 indicating that the max aperture is not enough. Why is this?

both with the same ISO

???????????

What gives, Tv mode look unusable to me.

Also my book tells me that with the flash on in 'P' mode the camera automatically sets a sync speed of 1/200 and adjusts the aperture automatically too. But when i shoot in 'P' the shutter speed is set to 1/60......argh..am i missing something. why is it not 1/200??

How do i get faster shutter speeds 1/125 - 1/200 with a flash??

thanks

[scottbergerphoto]

Your camera meter is measuring the ambient light exposure. It could care less if you have a flash attached. Your camera meter is just telling you that the ambient light is inadequate for a proper exposure by itself. In a dark room, the camera's exposure is controlled by the flash. The shutter speed is irrelevant for the flash exposure unless you go over the maximum sync speed. It doesn't make much sense to my ignorant self to use Tv with flash. I suggest using Manual mode on the camera and ETTL on the flash. You avoid the Automatic Reduction of Fill Flash that you get in all other metering modes, you get to set the aperture you need to get the flash distance you need (Distance = GN/ f stop), and you get to set a shutter speed fast enough to avoid camera movement in the picture while still allowing some capture of ambient light.

In P mode, the camera meter is still tring to meter the ambient light, but the camera is programed not to let the shutter speed drop below 1/60 sec.

Regards,
Scott

[Jonny]

Your camera meter is measuring the ambient light exposure. It could care less if you have a flash attached. In a dark room, the camera's exposure is controlled by the flash.

So the reason the aperture is flashing is because the camera is telling me the lens is not fast enough to get the correct exposure without a flash? It meters as if the flash is not even there?
So can i set the shutter to 1/160 and ignore the flashing aperture because the flash will fire at the correct brilliance to get a proper exposure? And is this ok for all speeds up to 1/200

So also am i right in saying that if i use the custom functions to set the flash sync to 200 in AV mode the shutter speed will always be 1/200 regardless of aperture and the flash will expose the picture correctly? (of course i understand that there is no way it would expose correctly at say f32 over long distances).

So do you think it would be good for me to set F8 in AV mode and adjust the FEC according to the histogram? Would this eliminate the chance of camera shake with all my lenses?



many thanks again

[scottbergerphoto]

So the reason the aperture is flashing is because the camera is telling me the lens is not fast enough to get the correct exposure without a flash? It meters as if the flash is not even there?
So can i set the shutter to 1/160 and ignore the flashing aperture because the flash will fire at the correct brilliance to get a proper exposure? And is this ok for all speeds up to 1/200

So also am i right in saying that if i use the custom functions to set the flash sync to 200 in AV mode the shutter speed will always be 1/200 regardless of aperture and the flash will expose the picture correctly? (of course i understand that there is no way it would expose correctly at say f32 over long distances).

So do you think it would be good for me to set F8 in AV mode and adjust the FEC according to the histogram? Would this eliminate the chance of camera shake with all my lenses?



many thanks againYes to all, except the Rebel doesn't have FEC unless you have the hacked firmware. Also, make sure that at F8 you aren't losing too much flash power.
The Distance the flash will effectively carry = Guide Number / f stop at Iso 100.
For Iso 200 multiply by 1.4 and for Iso 400 multiply by 2.
At Iso 400, f/8 using a 420EX, the maximum effective flash distance =
42/8 x 2 = 10 meters.

The only problem with your strategy in my mind (as unstable as it is), is that you lose most of the ambient light (stage lights). Why not switch to M and meter the ambient light but keep your shutter speed fast enough to avoid blur from camera movement. Don't worry about the meter telling you the shot will be underexposed.

On the other hand, since you might actually want to enjoy the performance, put the camera on P, the flash on ETTL, and enjoy the show.
Scott

[Jonny]

Why not switch to M and meter the ambient light but keep your shutter speed fast enough to avoid blur from camera movement. Don't worry about the meter telling you the shot will be underexposed.
Scott

I am really not that confident in full manual mode, it really worries me. especially when the meter tells me its going to be underexposed.
If i can't rely on my meter how do i know if the settings will work? Do i just set my shutter to the equivilent of the focal length (ie: 1/100 for 100mm) and as long as my f number isn't too high (by your equation) all will be exposed correctly by the flash?

Also would you use IS as well with flash?

[robertwgross]

I am really not that confident in full manual mode, it really worries me. especially when the meter tells me its going to be underexposed.
If i can't rely on my meter how do i know if the settings will work? Do i just set my shutter to the equivilent of the focal length (ie: 1/100 for 100mm) and as long as my f number isn't too high (by your equation) all will be exposed correctly by the flash?


It just comes with experience. You will learn what your camera is telling you, and then you will learn what that means when coupled with your own vision.

Strobe flash lights up for only 1/10,000th of a second, or thereabouts. Your shutter will be much slower than that, but the strobe tends to be much brighter than ambient light. Therefore, the strobe will be the major source of illumination to the scene, and the ambient light will likely be a minor source.

Also would you use IS as well with flash?

I.S. has no impact at all on the correct exposure. It will allow you to shoot with a slower shutter than without it, and that would allow you to drag the shutter more to capture more ambient light, if that is what you are trying to do.

---Bob Gross---

[scottbergerphoto]

You don't have much control over the flash exposure in ETTL. The camera does it for you. You get to fudge with FEC if you have the firmware hack. By setting the aperture and shutter you are controlling only the ambient light exposure, the DOF, and the maximum distance of the flash.


I think your best bet, if these concepts are still fuzzy, is to use P mode and ETTL for this event. When you have the time, use Manual Mode and ETTL and see what happens. I don't know about you but shooting an event isn't a good time for me to learn something new.
Good luck,
Scott

[tim]

How do you alter the FEC from the camera? I've been doing it on the camera.

[robertwgross]

How do you alter the FEC from the camera? I've been doing it on the camera.

Please clarify!

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

Please clarify

I just saw some reference to changing the FEC above. It's just done on the flash, right?

[robertwgross]

How do you alter the FEC from the camera? I've been doing it on the camera.

Tim, please clarify this.

Flash Exposure Compensation can be done, with some types of equipment, from the camera controls, or from the flash unit controls.

You seem to be asking how to set this from the camera, then you've "been doing it on the camera."

With lesser types of equipment, it cannot be done from the camera controls or it cannot be done from the flash controls.

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

Ok, i'm a bit all over the place. With the 300D and 550EX, how do you use FEC? My assumption was you did it on the flash, but as you can tell i'm really not sure.

[scottbergerphoto]

The 300D doesn't allow you to change FEC on the camera, so you have to do it on the flash if you can. The 420EX doesn't have this option, the 550EX does. If you have the combination above, the 300D and 420EX, you have no FEC, unless you install the "firmware hack". If you have a camera and flash that both allow FEC, you can set it on either one, camera or flash. If you set it by mistake on the 550EX and a camera, the 550EX overrides the camera.
Regards,
Scott

[Jonny]

I think your best bet, if these concepts are still fuzzy, is to use P mode and ETTL for this event.
Scott

Scott,

Am i right in saying that in this instance (with a ETTL Flash) the onlt difference between 'P' mode and full auto is my ability to shoot RAW?

Jon

[Artur Gajewski]

I've managed to get nice results with my 50mm/1.8 lense in similar occations with following information:

- ISO 1600
- F2.8

Didn't use flash, removed the noise with Neat Image.

[scottbergerphoto]

Scott,

Am i right in saying that in this instance (with a ETTL Flash) the onlt difference between 'P' mode and full auto is my ability to shoot RAW?

JonOn my 10D, there are a number of features that are not avaliable in Auto Mode that are available in P mode including the Iso setting, metering modes, Raw, EC, white balance, etc. If you check your manual at the end of the section on P mode, it should describe all the functions that are available in P but not in Auto.
Regards,
Scott