Photography schools

[Projectid]

I think I'm finally ready to start looking at schools. I did some searching and couldn't find much info on here.
My cameras got in the way of me and my diploma last year, but I finally got it and I'm ready to start looking at colleges, I'm not lookign to start in the fall, maybe 2nd semester..

Anyways, just looking for info on some good schools for this field, so far the only one I've really looked closely at is NESOP. I'm from Maine, but I don't mind changing my life around for college, I'm ready to explore the world outside of canadas border ;). post 'em up!

[PhotosGuy]

An Advanced title search for Schools brings a lot of threads up.

[Zansho]

Austin Community College Photographic Technology program is pretty good. Lots of emphasis on commercial/retouch/portrait work.

[NC_Photo]

Daytona Beach College (Southeast Center for Photographic Studies)

Its an amazing two year program, and after receiving your associates, its a seamless transfer to UCF (University of Central Florida) - they have a satellite campus right in Daytona so no need to move to Orlando. They work in partnership and actually both DBC/UCF photo classes are in the same building. The building is only 3 years old and has a fully stocked stockroom, several studios (including a couple commercial size studio), B&W darkroom, and color darkroom.

[sfaust]

Quite honestly, I would skip the schools if you are only going for photographic training. There are other methods I think work so much better, and in the end position yourself better in the marketplace. If you will also be studying other academic courses, then a school makes perfect sense.

If its just photographic and industry/business training you want, I think you can do so much better with a varied approach. Self teaching, business and photography workshop's, assisting for a local pro, and lots of practice. If a photo school would cost you $60K, think how far that same $60K would go with buying some equipment to get started, funding a number of workshops taught not by a local school instructor but by world class photographers, books and tools needed to self learn, come college courses on small business, and all the while be making some income from assisting side to offset your costs, not counting the real world business experience you will gain form working on set with clients, art directors, photographers, etc.

You are pretty close to the Maine Photographic Workshops in Camden Me. They have some world class speakers and instructors, and you can learn a lot there. There are also many different workshops that come through the area on lighting, business, workflow, and so on.

I think the schools are generally good, but I don't think they position you well for working in the industry. I am always amazed at what photographers coming out of school (even the major ones in our area, NESOP, Hallmark, etc) don't know when they apply to assist with me. Very little on the business, marketing, or administration end, which is crucial is such a competitive environment.

I would give that some thought and compare it against a school experience before taking that route. One may be better for you over the other, but a comparison is probably in order.

[Projectid]

Thanks everyone, especially s faust.

I felt the way you do at the end of my senior year with video production. I still do to an extent. I also however feel that I'm missing out on a big part of the transition into adulthood by not going to college... I shoot every day, but 90% of the time I'm alone, not networking with any of my peers. I guess thats the part I'm worried about missing out on going your route, any more insight is apreciated.

[anorman]

I am enrolled at the academy of arts university starting this summer and I cannot wait!!!!!!! I did alot of research and talking to people before I decided.

[sfaust]

Projectid, you are right, there is a lot more you can get out of a college experience other than the direct photographic experience. So yes, that should be part of the decision process, and could weight differently for each individual. I'm not recommending any not go that route, but just presenting the alternate as another option to be considered.

[Projectid]

for sure, thanks again. My names Jake btw.

[NC_Photo]

Jake,

I said this again in another thread, but I'll say it here too...

Yes, I went to college for photography. Do I think I learned how to be a photographer there? No. I had the basis to begin with - photography classes in high school to learn the basics as well as dark room skills. I continued with photographing for the yearbook and newspaper.

What did I get out of photography school? I had a brand new state of the art facility with every piece of equipment I could ever want to use AND the classes that required us to use them. In edition, I had some amazing professors and unlike a stuff college everything was very casual and they were simply "Dan" and "Eric", not "Professor XXX". In edition, there is an entire outlet for creativity and learned from other photographers - people to give you an honest critique. Someone to "talk shop" with. I don't know about you, but as a 20 something female who moved back to my hometown after college to work - there aren't many people I can shoot with or talk shop with like I did in college.

In edition, networking, which is huge. My school was also home to the Southeast Museum of Photography right on its campus. I've lost count of all the awesome exhibitions, shows, and lectures I was able to see of several well known and inspiring photographers. Not to mention a discount to all the trade shows and lectures only open to pros because I was student. ;)

Do you need college to be a photographer? No. But if you plan on doing anything other than weddings and portraits you better reconsider having at least a BFA. One of my former classmates transferred back home to Columbia (Chicago) to continue her photography schooling. After a discussion the other day, she said that almost every job opening that they find out about requires at least a bachelors.

[Ralph Merlino]

I think that sfaust is right on. I went to the Art Center Collage of Design in LA
many years ago. That was then and this is now. Listen to sfaust.

[amfoto1]

I think you have the cart before the horse....

You need to narrow it a bit to what type photography. For example:

Photojournalism? There are many good journalism schools.

Studio/wedding/portraiture? Head for a business school with strong emphasis on small business management and being an entrepreneur.

Advertising/product/corporate? First go to Brooks Institute for four years, then head to the business school for another four years.

Fine art photography? There are many programs and possibilities.

[sfaust]

Do you need college to be a photographer? No. But if you plan on doing anything other than weddings and portraits you better reconsider having at least a BFA. One of my former classmates transferred back home to Columbia (Chicago) to continue her photography schooling. After a discussion the other day, she said that almost every job opening that they find out about requires at least a bachelors.

I don't do weddings or portraits, and all my work is commercial, editorial, and advertising. I don't have any advanced degree, and I don't know one other pro that does. I've also never met a client during my career that even asked if I finished high school, college, or inquired anything about my background.

They do want to see my work and know what other types of similar jobs I have done. They ask how I would approach a project, and how I would incorporate their concept into the final image. They want to see prints of my work to see how it translates to the printed page. Occasionally, about 15% will ask for previous references. But never the last 15 years has one client asked me about my education level. Maybe I just 'present educated' :) Nah, they just aren't interested.

Maybe its different elsewhere, but in Boston and New York specifically, a degree carries far less weight than a well done portfolio and some experience under your belt. In LA and Florida, I hear its the same situation. And those are at least 3 of the major markets. I doubt the other major markets would be much different, and even more so for the secondary markets.

Or perhaps the type of work she is hearing about is something different or unique. But if you ask around to other pros that have been around awhile, I'm sure you get the same answer, "Where the he!! did you hear that?" ;)

[NC_Photo]

I'm not saying that EVERY single job out there is going to call for a college degree.

I considered myself to be pretty lucky. I knew all along that weddings and portraits was what I wanted to do and that a college degree wasn't going to hold much weight....the portfolio and your personality is most important.

I'm not sure how long you've been in the business (based on your images, I'd say quite a while since they are excellent) but every photography job opportunity in the commercial/fashion/journalism industry that people I know are finding are requiring at least a Bachelors Degree. Its getting the be the norm these days. All of these people I know are in the Chicago, NYC, LA, and Orlando areas. Is it possible to get a job without it? Sure.

In general, I've never seen so many people put down someone wanting to go to college as much as I've seen on POTN (not in this thread, just in about every one like it). Going to college is a lot more than what you are studying. The OP stated that one of the reasons is wanting to experience college.....why not at least study something you love while you are there? That degree is the one thing no one can take away from you.

There is always going to be the argument that its not important, and there will always be the ones saying "go for it". Its a matter of what is the best choice for you.

[Projectid]

Thanks courtney. What school did you go to out of curiosity? I've got a bit of a background as-is, I went to a technical highschool for Video production, and learned most of my camera info from there or just learning...

Also, as someone else said about narrowing my search a bit. How important is that? I was kind of under the impression I could take some photog classes to figure out what type I wanted to be. As of now it's all action stuff it seems, but I know I could get into other types of shooting.

[amfoto1]

For what it's worth....

A friend of mine is celebrating his 38th year as a professional photographer.

He started out doing portraits at age 17.

Later he worked for UPI as a photojournalist and traveled to remote parts of the world for about 10 years.

He's owned 3 or 4 studios, doing advertising photography, high end portraiture, product shots, etc.

He's owned and operated a video production facility.

Most recently he's been doing a lot of architectural photography, both interiors and exteriors.

But he's found his architectural work has been dropping off (due to a new, ultra low price competitor... who probably won't be in the business very long) so he's seriously considering doing weddings for a while.

He's got 4 different photography degrees from two different schools, taught for some years at one of the colleges, and currently offers seminars and such.

He says if he had it all to do over again, he'd probably get a business degree first.

My points:

To be successful, a photographer needs to specialize and become very good - among the best - within their specialty and within the market the serve.

It's possible to have two or three specialties. Or to have a primary specialty and one or several secondary ones. Or to have another specialty "on the back burner" for possible future development.

Don't act like you are making a decision here that will lock you solidly onto, one narrow path for the rest of your life. I suppose you could end up getting into something that makes sense to keep doing for the rest of your career, that you continue to enjoy and remains a viable choice. But, frankly, that's very unlikely. You will very probably have to make changes in course along the way.

It's more like a business plan or budget: As external things change over time, the plan needs to change and evolve too. You'll have to change and evolve in the exact same way.

During your career you will probably change your spots several times and take on different specializations, let others fall by the wayside. So pick the one that appeals to you the most right now, so that you can decide what type of education (and whether from a college or not) you need right now, and get started. There's nothing to say you can't go back and study again, or take seminars, or learn from a mentor or on the job in the future, too.

A lot of college is about teaching you how to learn, how to open your mind and think for yourself.

Oh, and some types of photography careers are 90% business, 10% photography. Many wedding, studio and commercial photographers might have been much better off with a degree in business, than a degree in photography.

Some specializations might even be enhanced by other types of complimentary study or degrees. For example, a wildlife photographer might best be served with courses in, and perhaps even a degree in biology.

So, where do you think you want to go from here? What interests you? Photojournalism? Fine arts? Studio work and lighting? Location? Assignments? Scientific?

Figure that out and it will tell you what education to pursue.

[sfaust]

I agree 100% with Alan.

When the OP posted, he mentioned NESOP, which is a photographic only speciality school. Everyone I've met from there had virtually no business training at all. They barely touched on business, focused mainly on photography. I have yet met a student that understood bidding, estimates, copyright, cash flow, business finances, etc, from a functional standpoint. It was like they heard the terms, but didn't really understand it. It could be the students, but since they were all like that, either their admissions requirements are very low, or they just aren't teaching it.

In that case, I do feel the money would be better spend on workshops, business courses, seminars, etc, rather than the specialty school. If it was a question regarding a university, thats a whole different matter and the university would win hands down IMO. Especially if they were studying business, or an unrelated major as a fall back plan.

And I agree that business should be first, photography second. It relates better to the real world.

[Projectid]

Thanks you guys, you've helped me quite a bit, I think for now I'll probably look into some classes at the community college to keep it cheap, get all the crap out of the way, and figure out what I want to specialize in. Good idea?

I feel like my mind has finally crossed the threshold of understanding photography in a (I don't want to sound cocky, but for lack of a better word..) proffesional sense, more-so than an amature, enough so I could teach myself without the need of intense clases like NESOP.

Faust, keep in touch if you need any help with stuff, I noticed your in the area, and make it sound like photographys your career, not just a hobby.

[sfaust]

I do try to convince my clients I'm still worth throwing a few cents at every now and then ;)

[Projectid]

hahaha, the green stuff makes it a little more enjoyable doesn't it?

[NC_Photo]

Thanks courtney. What school did you go to out of curiosity? I've got a bit of a background as-is, I went to a technical highschool for Video production, and learned most of my camera info from there or just learning...

Also, as someone else said about narrowing my search a bit. How important is that? I was kind of under the impression I could take some photog classes to figure out what type I wanted to be. As of now it's all action stuff it seems, but I know I could get into other types of shooting.

I went to Daytona Beach College, which is a joint program with UCF. The first two years (including a summer session) are about everything....B&W, Color darkroom, photoshop, slides, studio photography, location photography, and large large format. After those two years its a seamless transfer into the UCF program (on the same campus). This program is heavily journalism based and really forces you to think outside of the box and have a more "conceptual" look at photography. This also goes more in depth about the business side.

For me, I had already narrowed it down. I knew I wanted to do weddings a portraits so while I did get a lot out of the other classes I really made sure to work extra hard at location and studio photography - as well as the photoshop classes and color darkroom (understanding color). Lots of people I went to school with had already narrowed it down - but many hadn't. College is about finding yourself, and if you are a photographer, its about finding a way to be you while being a photographer. Only you will know what is the best fit for you. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions as sometimes I forget to check back old threads.

[Projectid]

sounds good, thanks for the info, I'll keep you in mind!!

[cory1848]

I currently live just outside of Orlando but work in Orlando, right next to Seaworld actually. I went to school at Ringling School of Art and Design, have a BFA in Illustration, which I dont use, and a minor in Photography, which I am hoping to be really successful at...Currently I am a Graphic Artist. The key for me was the BFA part. I am not self employed (yet), I work for the corporate man in the publishing field. We have designers, production artist, photographers, and a whole bunch of admin people. Its a good job, pay is ok but it is corporate. You wont get hired without at least an associates degree and you wont make senior management level without a bachelors. My boss, who is a print guru, is taking night classes to get his BA degree so he can move up to senior level management. He has been stuck as a manager for 6 years and been turned down for promotion because of the lack of degree. He is far more experienced than his superiors but he doesnt have that little piece of paper that he needs to move up.

I my situation, everything I know now, I learned AFTER college in the real world. I dont use much that I have learned in college in my professional life now. I look back and sometimes think it was a waste, but seeing my boss go through what he is going through, it reminds me why I went and graduated. College helped me get a direction, and a life path to go on. It was a good experience and I learned a lot about life, just wish I had learned something about business life as art school didnt teach us that at all. So unless one plans on being self employed for the rest of their life, I would highly recommend some form of education. Kudos to those that have been successful without it...

[Projectid]

thanks for that cory, very helpful, you guys have collectivley steered me away from any arts school I think..