Enjoy Your Holidays But Please Don't Shop at Wal Mart

[scottbergerphoto]

As you do your Holiday shopping this year, please skip the trip to Wal Mart. Wal Mart is being sued in numerous class action suits for :
1. Locking employees in over night.
2. Forcing employees to clock out and continue working without pay.
3. Using outside contractors, that employ undocumented aliens, and pay them below minimum wage salaries.
Less then 1/2 of Wal Marts employees have health insurance. They encourage their employees to seek Medicaid and other government health insurance for the poor.
Wal Mart uses it's enormous size and buying power to force their suppliers to lower prices, driving down wages at manufacturers. Other retailers are forced to lower prices to compete, driving down wages at their stores.
Workers deserve a living wage. The next time you need a CF card or a spare battery, skip the Wal Mart.
Have a joyous holiday season,
Scott
(Disclaimer: Wal Mart in case you and your lawyers are reading, this is my opinion and should not be construed as anything other then that. If I am in error in any of my facts, feel free to post a response. You still su*k!)

[jimsolt]

Good for you, Scott. I'm surprised to find your remarks in this forum, but they should really be everywhere. Happy Holidays to you.

Jim

[Belmondo]

Funny. We have a huge WalMart Super Center just a few blocks from our house. We walked through it the day after they opened, and we've never been back. There's something off-putting about a place that claims to be a home-grown American success story that has an area under roof equal to 6 football fields, and is chock full of stuff made in China.

[timmyquest]

Funny. We have a huge WalMart Super Center just a few blocks from our house. We walked through it the day after they opened, and we've never been back. There's something off-putting about a place that claims to be a home-grown American success story that has an area under roof equal to 6 football fields, and is chock full of stuff made in China.


I hate the place with a passion.

[robertwgross]

(another WalMart rant)

The other day, I was driving out to a wildlife area for photography. When I got about halfway there, I realized that I did not have any binoculars with me, and I spied a WalMart sign along the highway just then, so I figured I would stop and pick up some inexpensive binoculars (because WalMart surely would not stock any real quality optics!).

I went to the sporting goods department, quickly looked over the selection of about five products, and selected one. The department sales guy was standing right there, so I asked him whether I should pay for the binoculars right there or "up front". He said he would take care of me right there. I shelled out some cash, he rang up the deal, gave me my change and receipt and the binocs in a bag, and I briskly headed toward the front door. Just as I cleared the main front door, the alarms sounded, and some WalMart employee came chasing me down and demanded that I return into the store. He saw my receipt, and he saw the binocs, and he would not let me leave. He ran the binocs packaging over some transponder on the package, a tone sounded, and then I was free to leave. He recorded the incident with the sales guy's number and said that "his number is up." He meant that the sales guy had made too many mistakes of not nulling out the package transponder (causing the alarm) so he may be penalized on the job.

I was only inconvenienced for a few minutes, but I hate to think about the poor sales guy.

On the other hand, I don't think I'll be shopping at WalMart much if that is the way they are going to be.

---Bob Gross---

[Moppie]

So is the thread about the evil profit orintated attitude of captilism?
Or is it a thread about the wonder of freedom of choice, because of capitilism?

[timmyquest]

So is the thread about the evil profit orintated attitude of captilism?
Or is it a thread about the wonder of freedom of choice, because of capitilism?

The actions by these huge companies are not the result of capitalizim, rather they are the result of human nature. They have the freedom to act this way because of the country they live in, not the economic system behind it.

[Moppie]

I don't believe you can seperate social and economic values that easily.
I totaly a agree that the companys are that way because of the people behind them, and far to often the "company" is used to disguise the worst of human behaviour. However its the demands of the economic system that drive people to behave in such selfless ways. The freedom in most capitalist societies only allows it to happen.
But that same freedom, and the same demands of the same economic system also give people the option to surport enterprises with more moral business practices.

[scottbergerphoto]

Corporate entities like Wal Mart can choose to act as good citizens or not, just as individuals do. When they choose not to, it is up to the rest of us to decide how to respond. Some communities are fighting new Wal Marts in court over environmental, and other issues. Various state governments and class action suits are pursuing Wal Mart over their anti labor practices, and sex discrimination. Some toy makers are making a line of toys for Toys R Us that is unavailbale to Wal Mart so that they can stay alive and maintain some competition for Wal Mart. When the cost of litigation, bad publicity, and decreasing sales, starts to outweigh the benefits of it's current policies, Wal Mart will move a little closer to being a good citizen because it makes financial sense.
Scott

[RichardtheSane]

I agree with a lot of what Scott has said, and I have seen it from both sides of the industry. I have worked for the bad citizen of the corporate giant in the past and as an employee you could see that the pound signs were all that is important to them. How they choose to treat their staff and customers was of lesser concern

Now I work for another corporate giant who still keep the business as a main focus, but choose to take the route that good business satisfied customers and happy employees.

Corporate Responsibility has very little to do with capitalism.

Interestingly enough the UK supermarket Asda are owned by Wal Mart, and I can already see them heading the same way that wal mart has been described here.

[Tiger1]

Scott,

The sad part is that this organization was started for totally different reasons with a totally different set of standards. The original organizer died and then "GREED" appeared from the many stockholders. SHAME

However, WalMart isn't the only major retailer"worldwide" in this posture. There are many more who handle the same merchandise from the same countries and their labor standards with employees is worse than Walmart.

[scottbergerphoto]

A good example of how similiar businesses can go different routes on the road to corporate responsibility is Wal Mart vs. Costco Wholesale. More then 75% of Costco's employees have employer sponsored health insurance. Wall St. prefers Wal Mart because of it's higher profit margin, but Costco is a better citizen.
PS: www.costco.com (http://www.costco.com) has good prices on printer ink and paper. The freezer in my basement was a good deal too!
Scott

[HJMinard]

I refer to Walmart as "The Evil Empire". Mostly I just don't get it ... how did such a decidedly mediocre store become the largest corporation in the world? I agree with much of the discussion in this thread, but even if I didn't I would be unable to comprehend the attraction of Walmart. I enter one of their stores and it just feels like ... I don't know, maybe a really low class trailer park.

Somebody (Sam? Sam's kids?) sold their soul to the devil ...

[scottbergerphoto]

I refer to Walmart as "The Evil Empire". Mostly I just don't get it ... how did such a decidedly mediocre store become the largest corporation in the world? I agree with much of the discussion in this thread, but even if I didn't I would be unable to comprehend the attraction of Walmart. I enter one of their stores and it just feels like ... I don't know, maybe a really low class trailer park.

Somebody (Sam? Sam's kids?) sold their soul to the devil ...People go to Wal Mart for the same reason that some people are tempted to buy cameras and lenses from e-tailers they've never heard of just to save a few bucks.
The only way companies can sell cheaper then stores like B&H or J&R that have enormous buying power, is to be sleazy in how they deal with the customer, treat their employees poorly, or a combination of both.
Scott

[jgbeam]

I avoid Walmart with a passion. We did practically all our Christmas shopping at small, family owned shops (do you know the Borders family?), especially toys. But I'll tell you it's nigh on impossible to find much that's made in the USA. Our main gift to each of our five children was handmade from a maple tree that blew down in our yard last year. The proliferation of big box stores and the demise of the local merchant is truly sad.

Jim

[Longwatcher]

My primary reason that I avoid (although I don't boycott) Walmart is they censor the music and probably the DVD video they sell and don't alert the public they do so.

Frequently the version of some alternative or RAP music in Walmart is different then you would get any where else. While I can agree that some of the music should be censored, let me make the choice or at least inform me that you version is different then other stores.

For this reason I no longer buy music or video at Walmart. The reason I still shop there is I can find some things that I can't find elsewhere, but I usually go elsewhere first. And while I don't generally like Unions, Walmart corporate policy is one of the reasons unions were founded in the first place.

I am not concerned that Walmart is a giant store, because the whole way our society purchases goods is in a transistion period and I see us eventually getting everything we need direct from the producer ordered over the inernet and delivered when we need it. not there yet, but we are headed in that direction.

[Mitchkitter]

I never go into walmart for fear of being shot ;)

[jimsolt]

People go to Wal Mart for the same reason that some people are tempted to buy cameras and lenses from e-tailers they've never heard of just to save a few bucks.
Scott
I watched a well done documentary on Walmart on PBS and in that program Walmart spokesmen admitted that many of their prices are not lower than the competition. They lead you in with bargains, then often sell you something else. Like many things these days we accept what is advertised without much questioning. Unfortunately this is not always the bargain we expected.
Jim

[scottbergerphoto]

Wal Mart sells toys for less then they pay for them to get you in the store. That's why Toys R Us is contemplating exiting the toy business. Then they sell you something you never knew you just had to have. It's usually cheaper then anywhere else because they strong arm manufacturers into lower prices. The manufacturers keep their wages and benefits low so they can sell to Wal Mart and still make a profit. It's a vicious cycle. Eventually the only place working families can Shop is Wal Mart. The Wal Mart model is not complicated. It just requires a company to have no concience and a firm belief that as long as their prices are low, not enough people will care enough about the rest to make a difference.

Scott

[samdring]

a firm belief that as long as their prices are low, not enough people will care enough about the rest to make a difference.

Scott
Sadly, that is the main truth in this thread

[4walls]

A good example of how similiar businesses can go different routes on the road to corporate responsibility is Wal Mart vs. Costco Wholesale. More then 75% of Costco's employees have employer sponsored health insurance. Wall St. prefers Wal Mart because of it's higher profit margin, but Costco is a better citizen.
PS: www.costco.com (http://www.costco.com) has good prices on printer ink and paper. The freezer in my basement was a good deal too!
Scott
Costco is the OPPOSITE of Wal-Mart...

Read this article on Costco vs WalMart (http://www.teamster.org/04news/hn_040211_6.htm)


"Our business philosophy is to drive prices down and value up," Benoliel said. "By pricing everything at low margins, our members know that any price at Costco is the best value in the market. Unlike many other discount retailers, we do not rely on loss leaders to generate traffic in our warehouses."

Costco keeps prices low by reducing overhead costs, carrying fewer brands but more products, leveraging its buying power and screening customers for memberships.

Through these tools, Costco builds brand loyalty and secures lifetime customers. According to a 1997 study by Bellevue, Washington-based Herbet Research, Costco’s membership renewal rate is nearly 97 percent.

Costco one-year memberships range in price from $40 for a basic membership to $100 for an executive membership. While the $40 membership entitles most any consumer access to all of Costco’s low prices, the $100 membership offers individuals access to health insurance, auto/home insurance, mortgages, real estate services, check printing, long distance and a variety of other premium services.

One distinction between a warehouse club and a discount retailer is that warehouse clubs screen potential members based on business affiliations. While many consumers are eligible for membership, Costco’s target demographics are professionals and small-business owners who buy in large quantities for the business and home.

[timmyquest]

When they choose not to, it is up to the rest of us to decide how to respond. Some communities are fighting new Wal Marts in court over environmental, and other issues.

My town recently went through this, last i knew we wern't getting it. Time will tell (i have a feeling it will be here soon)

[Sketcher]

I watched a well done documentary on Walmart on PBS and in that program Walmart spokesmen admitted that many of their prices are not lower than the competition. They lead you in with bargains, then often sell you something else. Like many things these days we accept what is advertised without much questioning. Unfortunately this is not always the bargain we expected. Jim I saw that same documentary. Quite an eye opener into the international trade environment. I dare say, if that doc were broadcast in prime time with enough saturation that everyone saw it; Wal-mart would sing a different song in short order.

Interestingly, approx. 10 years ago, Wal-Mart was used as a 'gold standard' example of efficient MRP modeling in APICS training. Now, they're still used as an example in APICS; but they're more a model of cut-throat international low-price bid wars and low quality merchandise than innovative marketing.

[IndyJeff]

I refer to Walmart as "The Evil Empire". Mostly I just don't get it ... how did such a decidedly mediocre store become the largest corporation in the world? I agree with much of the discussion in this thread, but even if I didn't I would be unable to comprehend the attraction of Walmart. I enter one of their stores and it just feels like ... I don't know, maybe a really low class trailer park.

Somebody (Sam? Sam's kids?) sold their soul to the devil ...


Wal-Marts original concept was to offer multiple products all in one location and their market was the small towns of America. Before Wal-Mart people in those small towns didn't have much choice in buying products. The town square had the clothing store, the auto parts, a card store, and maybe a dept store like Sears or Pennys. Then people began to travel to shop in larger cities to find a wider variety. Wal-Mart stepped in and gave people a chance to buy the same things that they could get in the city without having to travel to the city.
Here in Indy there wasn't a Wal-Mart in sight for many years. Then they started popping up in the surrounding small towns. Now we have one, a Super Center at that, on every side of the city.

Wal-Mart is also becoming one of the biggest offenders of property rights. If you own land they want, they make an offer. If you don't accept it, they approach the local governing body and ask that the property be confiscated under the eminate domain laws and they will build on it and provide jobs, which in turn will pay taxes, not to mention sales taxes.

My mom once had an opportunity to supply Wal-Mart with boxes. When she told her boss that she had an appointment with the SE Region buyer he simply said, "Don't waste your time." Of course she didn't listen. She went to see the guy, he gave her the info on what they were looking for. She said she could work up a quote and get back to him. No need, he already had a quote ready. The were willing to pay the price they wanted, not what her company said it could do it for. She told her boss about it and he took a look at it. In order to fulfill the WM order, they would have had to add an extra shift, drop somewhere in the nieghborhood of 40% of their current clients which would have resulted in a net loss of about 20% to her company. Thats how Wal-Mart works.

[Big_B]

So is the thread about the evil profit orintated attitude of captilism?
Or is it a thread about the wonder of freedom of choice, because of capitilism?I take your point, however the beauty of our system is that we can put value on features of the store that are not directly linked to the transaction (staff wages for example). If enough people value higher staff wages then companies will respond - Fair Trade coffee is a classic example of this in action. It is still capitalism but not of the classical flavour.

[Big_B]

I watched a well done documentary on Walmart on PBS and in that program Walmart spokesmen admitted that many of their prices are not lower than the competition. They lead you in with bargains, then often sell you something else. Like many things these days we accept what is advertised without much questioning. Unfortunately this is not always the bargain we expected.
Jim
Sure, but to be fair to walmart, loss-leaders are a very common feature in buisness.

[Moppie]

Sure, but to be fair to walmart, loss-leaders are a very common feature in buisness.

Most of the bread and milk sold in any supermarket is sold either at almost zero margin, or a slight loss.
All the oil companys working with thier shop franchises will at some time or another either run certian shop products, or the petrol at a loss in order to get people in the door.
The practice itself is not nessacrly immoral, only its implmentation.
i.e. if its grossly misleading then I consider it immoral.



If enough people value higher staff wages then companies will respond - Fair Trade coffee is a classic example of this in action.

And thats exactly my point.
The consumer has the ultimate power in the end, by having a choice of where to shop they are able to dictate the behaviour of the supplier.
Its one reason large corperations often so much effort into wiping out the compitition, its good for bussiness as it takes the power away from the consumer.
And it only works if the consumer is aware they hold that power, and many are simply ignorant of how much control they may hold in thier wallet.
Its why marketing is becoming the biggest running cost of most companys.
Accounting for an average 60% of the running costs, going up to as much as 80-90% if the business is highly consumer driven.

[mikesd]

Heres the problem; I live in a rural area in a small city of 8500 pop. We are 100 miles from any kind of major shopping centers. Wal Mart moved to town 20 years ago, ran everyone out of buisness, and is now literally the only place to shop in town. Since we also have a Wal Mart DC, we are a town that is truely owned by the Evil One. We also have the honor of being the #2 city in the nation in Wal Mart giveaways[as reported by CNN], not bad for such a small city. The brilliance of Wal Mart has been to set up these situations so the consumer does not have the power to dictate their unhappiness with a companys buisness practices. For everyday shopping needs we can drive an half hour to another small towns Wal Mart or the 1.5 hours to a larger city. Love them or hate them Wal Mart is #1 in the world because they were smarter than everyone else and we have done it to ourselves. The saddest part is in a town our size Wal Mart employs about 1000 people and without them we are dead in the water.

[Tom W]

Wal-Mart. Nobody goes there any more - its too crowded. ;)

[jimsolt]

The consumer has the ultimate power in the end, by having a choice of where to shop they are able to dictate the behaviour of the supplier.
Its one reason large corperations often so much effort into wiping out the compitition, its good for bussiness as it takes the power away from the consumer.
And it only works if the consumer is aware they hold that power, and many are simply ignorant of how much control they may hold in thier wallet.
Stated another way (to steal from Sy Sims), "The best customer is a well informed customer." The fly in the ointment is that most customers are not well informed about Walmart and many other things. Consequently, they ignore what we clearly talk about in this forum . . . loss leaders are a common business practice . . . and believe that Walmart is in fact the cheapest place to buy anything. This is what happens when a citizenry gets its information from too few sources operated by too few corporations.
How's that for broadening the topic? :)
Jim