Tired of flash hit and miss! (please help)

[phsv]

I was asked to take the formal pictures for a middle school prom. I was able to get the photos but there was A LOT of inconsistency in lighting between photos. Below is a series of photos of my wife and I that a teacher did the favor of taking. The teacher did some right after the other but some she paused in between pictures.

http://psaenz.smugmug.com/photos/298224937_zivSD-L.jpg

Image information:
ISO 800, f/5.6, 1/50, 32mm. Flash set to +1/3
Canon 30D, 430EX, Gary Fong Lightsphere

Now I understand that a flash has to recycle to fully charge; especially being that I was using the 430EX. But even when allowing the flash to fully recycle, the flash would not fire that bright. I would wait between couples to take the photos and most of the time the first picture was too dark and then the next one would be properly lit.

I hope this makes sense. Greatly appreciate the input.

[phsv]

I am having problems posting the image hosted on Smugmug, here is the link:
http://psaenz.smugmug.com/gallery/3003697_VYfQ4#298224937_zivSD-A-LB

[unforgettablefaces]

Is the 430 on camera or off? What setting are you using on the flash? ETTL? Manual?

[AlanU]

alkaline batteries?? or NiMN rechargeables?? high ceilings?

did you adjust your FEC more than + 1/3 ??

I was having problems like that and I realized my pilot light on my 580EXII took a long time to turn "red". Silly me simply had discharged rechargeables.

[tim]

Sometimes it's as simple as the flash not being mounted properly. Sometimes it's faulty equipment. Mostly it's the flash hasn't had time to recharge. Can you post exif for two photos taken in a row, one light one dark? It probably won't tell us much but it can't hurt.

As an aside doing a prom with one on camera 430 doesn't sound like a good idea. Studio lighting is what you should be using, you really need the quick recharge and high power strobes so you can use decent light modifiers.

[swampler]

I've seen that before. If you take a shot before the flash has time to recharge, you'll get a black frame where the flash doesn't light the scene.

[phsv]

Here are some of the answers to the questions:

NiMN rechargeables, ceilings a bit high but using the cap on the lightsphere, batteries were fully charged. Flash is mounted on the camera and was set to ETTL mode.

So then even if the pilot is red the flash I still have to wait a little longer? What was weird was that I would sometimes wait for around 4-5 minutes and it would still only fire around 1/2 the potential leaving a dark image, then I would quickly fire one 2 seconds after and that was full power.

Yes, I agree that the best have been to have studio lights light the scene and i think that would of helped w/ consistency and recharge time.

I just really want to stop the guess work and learn what I am doing wrong/right to be consistent w/ my equipment.

Let me look at two images and put exif info.

[phsv]

AlanU, yes at one point I did adjust the FEC more than +1/3 but then set it back to either 1/3 or back to "0" because I was not seeing any improvement in the consistency.

[phsv]

Ok here, is the EXIF information. Most of it seems like I am not waiting long enough for the flash to recycle but that one that throws me off (which is what was happening more often than none) are the photos between 15 and 16. There was only ONE second delay and I got a brighter flash output.

http://psaenz.smugmug.com/photos/298224937_zivSD-L.jpg

EXIF Information: (This information stayed consistent in all shots)
Dimensions: 2336 x 3504
Exposure: 1/50 sec at f/5.6
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Did Fire
Exposure Program: Manual
ISO Speed Rating: ISO 800
Focal Length: 32mm
Lens 28.0-75.0mm

Date Time Original: (This was the only change; the # before reflects the image #)
1 - 5/16/2008 7:38:45 PM
2 - 5/16/2008 7:38:52 PM
3 - 5/16/2008 7:38:53 PM
4 - 5/16/2008 7:38:53 PM
5 - 5/16/2008 7:38:53 PM
6 - 5/16/2008 7:38:58 PM
7 - 5/16/2008 7:39:06 PM
8 - 5/16/2008 7:39:06 PM
9 - 5/16/2008 7:39:58 PM
10 - 5/16/2008 7:39:58 PM
11 - 5/16/2008 7:39:58 PM
12 - 5/16/2008 7:39:59 PM
13 - 5/16/2008 7:40:09 PM
14 - 5/16/2008 7:40:09 PM
15 - 5/16/2008 7:40:09 PM
16 - 5/16/2008 7:40:10 PM

Again, thanks for your input.

[Lotto]

Why are you using the burst drive mode of camera, and shooting the person with the same pose? Making in camera duplicates?

No flash or strobe can keep up with the machine gun mode for too long. Try single shot mode?

[Col_M]

Going by the EXIF times your flash just couldn't keep up.

e.g. Image 2 is fine, then 3, 4 and 5 were taken within a second of image 2 and are all dark, which leads me to believe the flash couldn't recharge quick enough. Image 6 is lighter because the flash had some time to recharge (5 seconds) but still couldn''t reach full charge in time hence why it's only slightly underexposed.

All the other underexposed frames follow within a second or so of a correctly exposed image, it simply looks like the flash spent all its charge on the first frame then had nothing left for the ones after.
edit: not all, image 7 still looks dark even though it's 8 seconds after image 6, usually 8 seconds is enough for a full charge on full batteries :-/

[tim]

You didn't want long enough for your flash to recharge, it takes maybe 5 seconds to do a full charge. You have to use single shot mode. Like I said you need studio units for this, even then you have to wait for them to charge, unless you're shooting on about 1/4 power.

[Psychobiker]

ETTL is dodge too, it can be brilliant but if you meter say 6" off where it was before (on her arm, and not her dress)....all hell will break loose

[rabidcow]

16 shots in one minute, 25 seconds. Are you serious?

A mother came up to me after a one outfit senior session and told me how happy she was. She had originally taken her daughter to a friend's uncle to get senior pictures taken all because he had a snazzy new DSLR and talked like he knew what he was doing. He took the girl out to a park and machine gunned around 300 images. There was little to no posing whatsoever, and the mother was starting to get it. This guy probably knew allot about his gear, but he knew little of portrait photography.

She had come to me because she had to. Her daughter's school has a yearbook contract with us. So, I took the yearbook shots and then 4 more, pretty standard for a one outfit session. The mother watched me intently, and then looked at the pictures afterwards. She told me that she was amazed at how I didn't even touch my camera until I was ready to take the shot, she was floored by the fact that I posed and lit her daughter toe to head. I took the time to create the pose, and then to develop the expression. I only pushed the button when I needed to, and I only pushed the button eight times. She received eight proofs. She bought 5 out of the 8 and none from the 300 or so she had received from the gunner.

Professionalism is more than neato-frame-rates. In this business you need to create the image, not shoot until the image happens.

[Curtis N]

Gary Fong Lightsphere.Tupperware type devices destroy the inherent efficiency of a flash unit by throwing the light in all directions, which means that a very small percentage of it ever illuminates the scene in your viewfinder. The rest of it is mostly wasted, especially if you're under a high ceiling.

This makes your flash work a lot harder. Recycle time goes up, battery life goes down.

In the camera's viewfinder, there is little "lightning bolt" icon to indicate the flash is ready to fire. Wait for that to come on before taking a shot, and you'll get much better results.

[SkipD]

The first two steps to solving the problem in my opinion:

1 - Dump the 'tupperware' diffuser in a large venue (where there are no nearby reflective surfaces to return the light to the subject).

2 - Turn off "machinegun mode" and use single shot mode only. Rapid fire mode and a Speedlite (at more than a few inches from the subject) are absolutely NOT compatible.

[Tiberius47]

If you want flash but don't want direct flash (if you want to soften it a bit) you need to use bounce. If there are no surfaces to bounce it off, you'll need a reflector. Forget about the proper photographic ones, just go to a two dolalr shop and get a reflector for your car's windscreen. They are silver on one side, white on the other so you have a bit of flexibility. get an assistant to hold it.

Then take your camera off burst mode, there's no way your flash can keep up. You're just wasting frames.

[AB8ND]

I agree with the comments on the Lightsphere, it does work good when the light has something to bounce off, but in a big room they just suck power from the strobe. For what you are doing, I'd go with off camera in to a shoot through umbrella, like a white 43" Westcott, running you flash on manual 1/2 power, with a reflector for fill. (2) flashes in to umbrellas would be the best, but the reflector should work. I think you can use the ebay trigger to fire your 430, but not sure. If nothing else you could, as mentioned before, bounce you 430 into a reflector, something like a nice big piece of white foam core.

Jack

[airfrogusmc]

Listen to Skip. Thats very good advice.

I found this to work better for me than all the other gadgets.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/Cameras/IMG_3620.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/Cameras/IMG_3625.jpg

It gets gunked up I buy make a new one.

[phsv]

Thank you all for your advice. I did have it in shotgun mode but I wasn't shooting that way when I was handling the camera. These are actually shots of my wife and I. The person that did me did the favor didn't help much at times becuase she didn't know that you had to release the shutter to stop taking the pictures. But what about frames 15-16?

I do have some "a better bounce cards" created from soft foam that work pretty good but didn't think that the lightsphere was going to drain the flash that much. I sure learned from experience.

So then if the lightning bolt is displaying in the camera's viewfinder, the flash is ready to shoot full power?

I know that these pictures don't explain what I would like to know, but how come when I would take around a 2 minute break between couples and shoot again, the flash would shoot 1/2 or less than what it was set to. Could this have anything to do w/ the ETTL have something to do with this? Maybe the couple was wearing different colors and the camera metered it wrong?

Would it have been better to have gone w/ Manual mode on the flash too?

Thanks again for all your input.

[sapearl]

No, IMHO Manual Flash mode would have just dumped more wasted battery power into each discharge. Manual CAMERA mode with flash on Auto-ETTL would be fine though. Skip, Air, Tim and Curtis are right on target with all their recommendations. Your settings were basically decent except for the shutter burst mode not allowing sufficient recycle time.

Air's velcro white card is one of the most effective devices you can build. I have a few that are different sizes depending upon how much "throw" power I want. If you want something pre-made, then go with any of the Lumiquest Pocket Bounce products. They are small, and will compactly fit in pocket. The Lumiquest 80/20 is pretty good as it allows 80% of the light to bounce up - if you have a decent ceiling - while throwing 20% forward for your fill and catch lights.

But skip the tupperware - inefficient light sucker for this type of setup... just drain your batteries quicker.

[sapearl]

Yes - this could very well be the case. I see it all the time at weddings when confronted with black suits and white bridal gowns.

If the couple is wearing lighter color clothing, the flash's output will shut down more quickly as it "senses" brighter environs. But if the couple is made up of a man in a black tux and a lady in a dark evening gown, the flash will try to bring up the illumination to it's concept of 18% gray.

......I know that these pictures don't explain what I would like to know, but how come when I would take around a 2 minute break between couples and shoot again, the flash would shoot 1/2 or less than what it was set to. Could this have anything to do w/ the ETTL have something to do with this? Maybe the couple was wearing different colors and the camera metered it wrong?.......

[phsv]

Thanks. I thought that having the tupperware would of just made things easier but it ended being more of a hassle having to take around 3-4 shots of each couple and asking them to wait a little longer to have the flash recycle.

I am going to go back to using the "better bounce card" which was working nicely.

On a side question, does anyone know where i can found those large/wide rubber bands that can hold the bounce card instead of sticking velcro on the flash head?

Thanks.

[René Damkot]

Maybe the couple was wearing different colors and the camera metered it wrong?

Would it have been better to have gone w/ Manual mode on the flash too?

Possible, and yes.
Set it good once, and if nothing varies (distance, where the flash is pointed), you can forget about it. It'll expose consistent.

[Wilt]

16 shots in one minute, 25 seconds. Are you serious? .

The OP is lucky he did not fry his flash unit due to thermal overload with the high rate of fire! The flash did him a favor by not firing with sufficient power. One not-so-lucky POTN member had fried two flashes before learning better!

From the Canon flash manual (which I know all too many owners have never read) ...

"To avoid overheating and deteriorating the flash head, do not fire fire bursts of more than 20 continuous flashes. After 20 continuous flashes allow a rest time of at least 10 minutes."

"To avoid overheating and deteriorating the flash head, do not fire more than 10 stroboscopic bursts. After 20 continuous flashes allow the speedlite to rest for at least 10 minutes."

(emphasized to attact some attention and education of the POTN reader who never read the manual)

[Village_Idiot]

No, IMHO Manual Flash mode would have just dumped more wasted battery power into each discharge.

What do you mean by this? A manually set flash shooting at the same distance with the same settings would provide a consistant result.

TTL could have been what really helped to kill some of you're pictures. Set it to spot meter and meter off of one spot, like the person's face. If you meter a black suit/dress, you'll get a brighter picture as the camera is compensating for the black, but if you meter a white face or background, you'll get a darker photo as it's compensating for the white. You just would have to set your FEC to compensate correctly and then meter consistantly off of a certain spot or shade for TTL to expose "correctly".

This is one reason why I'm not a huge fan of TTL. Don't get me wrong, it has it's advantages, especially when you're shooting things with constant movement, but for portraiture where the subjects are in the same place and the distance/settings/etc... are all the same, I prefer manual lighting as well as off camera.

[sapearl]

A lot of office supply stores have rubber bands in a variety of sizes. Also, it's possible to buy as well as make velcro straps that don't stick directly to the flash unit. You can buy a lot of precut velcro straps in various lengths online and at Radio Shack. In that context they are used by technicians for bundling Cat5 cable, fiber and other network components together.

And yes, the high priced tupperware only works well under "ideal" conditions contrary to what the advertising may imply. Very often the cheapest solutions are the best ;). Stick with your better bounce instincts.

Thanks. I thought that having the tupperware would of just made things easier but it ended being more of a hassle having to take around 3-4 shots of each couple and asking them to wait a little longer to have the flash recycle.

I am going to go back to using the "better bounce card" which was working nicely.

On a side question, does anyone know where i can found those large/wide rubber bands that can hold the bounce card instead of sticking velcro on the flash head?

Thanks.

[sapearl]

Sorry, not the best response on my part.

I should have said a carefully "calculated" Manual flash setting determined from distance, etc. would have been ideal and traditional, but not a FULL blast Manual output. I made the (wrong) assumption that he was saying full manual output. I stand corrected. ;)

What do you mean by this? A manually set flash shooting at the same distance with the same settings would provide a consistant result.

......

[Wilt]

What do you mean by this? A manually set flash shooting at the same distance with the same settings would provide a consistant result.

Wait a second folks! Consider this...a flash on Manual outputs all of its power (assuming full power output setting) each time it is fired. If the batteries have only recharged it 1/3 of the way, it fires 1/3 power. If the batteries have only recharged it 1/2 way, it fires 1/2 power. If the batteries have recharged it all the way, it fires full power. If the batteries have recharged it 1/5 of the way, it fires at 1/5 power. So by firing too fast, shot 1 is 1/3 power and shot 2 is 1/2 power and shot 3 is full power, and shot 4 is 1/5 power...there is NOTHING consistent about 1/3 -1/2-full-1/5 power sequence of shots! And that is exactly what would have happened to the OP due to the rapid rate of fire that was too brief to permit full recharge.

This is one reason why I'm not a huge fan of TTL. Don't get me wrong, it has it's advantages, especially when you're shooting things with constant movement, but for portraiture where the subjects are in the same place and the distance/settings/etc... are all the same, I prefer manual lighting as well as off camera.

This is one reason why ETTL is incredibly flawed, compared to the very very consistent results that film cameras gave with TTL flash control!

[Village_Idiot]

Wait a second folks! Consider this...a flash on Manual outputs all of its power (assuming full power output setting) each time it is fired. If the batteries have only recharged it 1/3 of the way, it fires 1/3 power. If the batteries have only recharged it 1/2 way, it fires 1/2 power. If the batteries have recharged it all the way, it fires full power. If the batteries have recharged it 1/5 of the way, it fires at 1/5 power. So by firing too fast, shot 1 is 1/3 power and shot 2 is 1/2 power and shot 3 is full power, and shot 4 is 1/5 power...there is NOTHING consistent about 1/3 -1/2-full-1/5 power sequence of shots! And that is exactly what would have happened to the OP due to the rapid rate of fire that was too brief to permit full recharge.



I meant with provided recharge time of course. It would definitely be more consistant than with ETTL. And the same things happens with ETTL. If you don't let the flash recharge, it fires a shot that will not be at the full power of the appropriate setting.

And by manual, I meant manual mode, not 1/1 or full power.

[René Damkot]

Wait a second folks!

Sure, you'd have to wait until the flash is fully recharged. Same goes for ETTL.

Then again, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Canon flashes won't fire until the ready light goes on, so they are (almost) recharged.

One advantage of manual flash is that you don't get the ETTL preflash, which has been known to cause people to blink, and be on the picture with the eyes closed...

[Wilt]

IAnd by manual, I meant manual mode, not 1/1 or full power.

But of course, even if you were at 1/4 power in manual mode on the flash, if the flash was only 1/128 recharged it fires at 1/128 power, and if it were 1/8 recharged it fires at 1/8 power, etc.

[Wilt]

Sure, you'd have to wait until the flash is fully recharged. Same goes for ETTL.

Then again, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Canon flashes won't fire until the ready light goes on, so they are (almost) recharged.


Yes, the Quick Flash mode must be set via Custom Function, in order to permit the flash to be fired before the Green ready light

[sapearl]

Right - you can fire the camera, but not the flash - been there done that a couple of times too many when the action was going strong - black frame.:( (Unless you set it up the way Wilt said.).

.....Then again, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Canon flashes won't fire until the ready light goes on, so they are (almost) recharged.
.......

[phsv]

Yeah, I can relate to a lot of the black frames that Sapearl is talking about. So then I think it would of been better to spot meter, set the flash manually (not to full power) and then shot away waiting for flash to fully recharge before shooting again. Yes, it was really dumb of me to keep it in rapid fire shutter when handing the remote to the teacher. Sure am glad that I didn't fry my flash!

Will also not be using the tupperware due to the excess of power it uses.

Am I missing anything?

[René Damkot]

Yes, the Quick Flash mode must be set via Custom Function, in order to permit the flash to be fired before the Green ready light

From the 580EX manual, page 10 (emphasis mine): "Quick flash enables a flash to be fired before flash-ready, when the pilot lamp is still green.
Although the Guide No. will be 1/6 to 1/2 that of the full output, quick flash is effective for near subjects and when you want a shorter recycle time. Set the drive mode to single,. Quick flash cannot be used in the continuous shooting, FEB, manual flash, and stroboscopic flash modes."

So, if I read this correct:


Quick Flash only works in ETTL, and *can indeed* lead to underexposed images then,

If the pilot light isn't green, the flash won't fire, regardless of setting QF or not,

QF will not work in continuous drive,

QF will not work in Manual flash.


Now. I know the manual is wrong on some points, since my 580EX will fire at a green flash-ready light, with my 1D2 in Continuous drive mode.

If I set CFn 8 in the flash to "0", the green light never comes on (Easy to test, since I had a pair of nearly depleted NiMh batteries in it; I could switch CFn 8 back and forth, and see the flash ready light go from green to off and back again)

However, I'm not sure what happens in M mode, say at 1/4 power: Does the flash work when it reaches 1/6 power? Very unscientific test with my Sekonic L-358 does seem to indicate some inconsistency in flash output (about 1/3 stop).

When the batteries completely gave out, and I installed fresh ones, I found out I could only get the flash ready light to go green in M mode using 1/4 power or less however.
1/4 + 1/3 and it's from "off" straight to "red". It still worked with the camera on Ch drive though. Strange.
Seems there is some undocumented stuff going on (as usual).

[Wilt]

From the 580EX manual, page 10 (emphasis mine): "Quick flash enables a flash to be fired before flash-ready, when the pilot lamp is still green".

I think there is the question of what is the correct interpretation, because the wording makes it somewhat ambiguous...

a) "Quick flash enables a flash to be fired when the pilot lamp is still green, before red flash-ready"

b) "Quick flash enables a flash to be fired before green flash-ready"

The behavior you reported is consistent with interpretation A, which is how I originally interpreted the manual.

[Curtis N]

Could this have anything to do w/ the ETTL have something to do with this? Maybe the couple was wearing different colors and the camera metered it wrong?Sample images would help answer this question. White clothing and reflective fabrics like satin (common in prom dresses) have been known to make E-TTL underexpose terribly. You may want to try switching to Average E-TTL (via camera custom function) which is somewhat less prone to this problem.Would it have been better to have gone w/ Manual mode on the flash too?That's what I would have done in that situation, but I also have a flash meter and some experience with it. Manual flash is a skill set unto itself, but it's worth learning.

[Maddog12]

Professionalism is more than neato-frame-rates. In this business you need to create the image, not shoot until the image happens.

Unless you are shooting very small children.

Tupperware type devices destroy the inherent efficiency of a flash unit by throwing the light in all directions.

I agree! Not only did Fong take your money for the Tupperware device itself, but he exhausted your batteries and scattered your light all over the place.

[phsv]

Well, I highly agree that it is not professional to shoot until the image happens, but this was the first time I had encountered this problem, so I tried to make the best of it. I am sure (I hope) that I will be more professional thanks to you guys.

And for what the Fong cost me, it got the job done for other events. But the more I learn about flash photography, the more time it stays at home and rely on soft foam reflectors; especially for the price! :)

[rabidcow]

phsv, sorry if I blasted you there, I was still working on my coffee and did not READ that YOU did not take these images. My bad. I do NOT retract my statement, it is as true now as it was then, I simply re-direct it to those who might need it.

Rule of thumb: Known distance, known environment, and manual camera settings all add up to manual flash settings and a light meter.

[phsv]

Oh Rapid, don't worry about it, I didn't take it that way. No offense taken.

I really do appreciate the input from all that posted here. :)

[Maddog12]

And for what the Fong cost me, it got the job done for other events. But the more I learn about flash photography, the more time it stays at home and rely on soft foam reflectors; especially for the price! :)

A big vote here for the soft foam reflectors. Cheap and very effective.

[Meaty0]

16 shots in one minute, 25 seconds. Are you serious?

A mother came up to me after a one outfit senior session and told me how happy she was. She had originally taken her daughter to a friend's uncle to get senior pictures taken all because he had a snazzy new DSLR and talked like he knew what he was doing. He took the girl out to a park and machine gunned around 300 images. There was little to no posing whatsoever, and the mother was starting to get it. This guy probably knew allot about his gear, but he knew little of portrait photography.

She had come to me because she had to. Her daughter's school has a yearbook contract with us. So, I took the yearbook shots and then 4 more, pretty standard for a one outfit session. The mother watched me intently, and then looked at the pictures afterwards. She told me that she was amazed at how I didn't even touch my camera until I was ready to take the shot, she was floored by the fact that I posed and lit her daughter toe to head. I took the time to create the pose, and then to develop the expression. I only pushed the button when I needed to, and I only pushed the button eight times. She received eight proofs. She bought 5 out of the 8 and none from the 300 or so she had received from the gunner.

Professionalism is more than neato-frame-rates. In this business you need to create the image, not shoot until the image happens.


A good lesson in this story. Taking time to set up the shot is something I often fall foul of. Your skills would have been enhanced by the fact that you had already worked out your camera and flash settings from your previous shots (and experience). It makes a world of difference when you are sure about the camera/flash settings and you can relax and get the pose and expression right.

For a yearbook shoot, how do you set up your lighting? And typically what camera settings do you use?

[rabidcow]

For a yearbook shoot, how do you set up your lighting? And typically what camera settings do you use?

For senior Yearbooks I use a 4 light set up. Main, fill, hair, and background. Main is modified with a HALO for REALLY soft shadows, and setup at subject forehead height and 45(ish) degrees off centerline (the line from background center to background light to subject center and then to camera center) This produces a nice 10 or 2 o'clock catchlight. Fill is placed centerline about 14 feet from subject with a 42" umbrella. Hair and background lights are in the usual places.

Lighting is at a 3:1 ratio. Fill metered at 5.6.5, fill-main combined at 11. Hair at 8.5 and background at 11 (metered at ISO400).

Camera settings...ISO200, 1/125, f/9, flash white balance. Sounds weird to meter at ISO400 at f/11 and shoot at ISO200 f/9.....right?

Metering this way gives me nice easy numbers to meter to, and then I am basically shooting 1/3 under at a cleaner ISO in order to avoid any blowout on shiny foreheads or blond hair.

[swampler]

Sounds weird to meter at ISO400 at f/11 and shoot at ISO200 f/9.....right?

Metering this way gives me nice easy numbers to meter to, and then I am basically shooting 1/3 under at a cleaner ISO in order to avoid any blowout on shiny foreheads or blond hair.Wouldn't metering at f/11 and shooting at f/9 actually over expose by 1/3 since your aperture is open larger than needed?

[Shooting]

Or keep the flash on ETTL and do a "pre-flash" on each person before firing the exposure flash..put your middle focus point on their faces and hit the * button on your camera and it will fire a test flash at your subject reading the light hitting the focusing point on their face thus giving the exposure flash a perfect burst of light each time..that is what I do for consistency. I ALWAYS fire the test "pre-flash", even when using the pocket bouncer..of course you can't do it in a fast paced wedding but on posed shots or candids I always do it. Do that and you will not need any FEC.

[rabidcow]

Wouldn't metering at f/11 and shooting at f/9 actually over expose by 1/3 since your aperture is open larger than needed?

Actually f/11 to f/9 is 2/3 of a stop, but remember, I am shooting at ISO200, not the ISO400 that I metered for. This puts me at 1/3 under.

[rabidcow]

Or keep the flash on ETTL and do a "pre-flash" on each person before firing the exposure flash..put your middle focus point on their faces and hit the * button on your camera and it will fire a test flash at your subject reading the light hitting the focusing point on their face thus giving the exposure flash a perfect burst of light each time..that is what I do for consistency. I ALWAYS fire the test "pre-flash", even when using the pocket bouncer..of course you can't do it in a fast paced wedding but on posed shots or candids I always do it. Do that and you will not need any FEC.

I am using mono lights and a control box. There is no ETTL, I need to meter with a hand-held.

[swampler]

Actually f/11 to f/9 is 2/3 of a stop, but remember, I am shooting at ISO200, not the ISO400 that I metered for. This puts me at 1/3 under.
Ahh, thanks. I missed that. I'm still trying to learn this lighting stuff...

[bsaber]

For times where I don't have a pre-made bounce card with me a piece of white printer paper folded in a triangle shape would pretty good too.

[Meaty0]

For senior Yearbooks I use a 4 light set up. Main, fill, hair, and background. Main is modified with a HALO for REALLY soft shadows, and setup at subject forehead height and 45(ish) degrees off centerline (the line from background center to background light to subject center and then to camera center) This produces a nice 10 or 2 o'clock catchlight. Fill is placed centerline about 14 feet from subject with a 42" umbrella. Hair and background lights are in the usual places.

Lighting is at a 3:1 ratio. Fill metered at 5.6.5, fill-main combined at 11. Hair at 8.5 and background at 11 (metered at ISO400).

Camera settings...ISO200, 1/125, f/9, flash white balance. Sounds weird to meter at ISO400 at f/11 and shoot at ISO200 f/9.....right?

Metering this way gives me nice easy numbers to meter to, and then I am basically shooting 1/3 under at a cleaner ISO in order to avoid any blowout on shiny foreheads or blond hair.

Thanks for the (detailed) info. The trouble with learning this lighting business is...everyone does their lighting a bit differently. It can be a bit confusing.

Thats an interesting technique of metering. I would have thought it was easier to just simply meter the flash to ISO200 and f/8 and then close down to f/9 for the shot:confused:

[Meaty0]

Or keep the flash on ETTL and do a "pre-flash" on each person before firing the exposure flash..put your middle focus point on their faces and hit the * button on your camera and it will fire a test flash at your subject reading the light hitting the focusing point on their face thus giving the exposure flash a perfect burst of light each time..that is what I do for consistency. I ALWAYS fire the test "pre-flash", even when using the pocket bouncer..of course you can't do it in a fast paced wedding but on posed shots or candids I always do it. Do that and you will not need any FEC.

When you talk about pressing the * button, are you talking about taking a Flash Exposure Lock "preflash"? Does FEL work on an off-camera flash setup? <must study camera manual again>

[Yohan Pamudji]

For senior Yearbooks I use a 4 light set up. Main, fill, hair, and background. Main is modified with a HALO for REALLY soft shadows, and setup at subject forehead height and 45(ish) degrees off centerline (the line from background center to background light to subject center and then to camera center) This produces a nice 10 or 2 o'clock catchlight. Fill is placed centerline about 14 feet from subject with a 42" umbrella. Hair and background lights are in the usual places.

Lighting is at a 3:1 ratio. Fill metered at 5.6.5, fill-main combined at 11. Hair at 8.5 and background at 11 (metered at ISO400).

Camera settings...ISO200, 1/125, f/9, flash white balance. Sounds weird to meter at ISO400 at f/11 and shoot at ISO200 f/9.....right?

Metering this way gives me nice easy numbers to meter to, and then I am basically shooting 1/3 under at a cleaner ISO in order to avoid any blowout on shiny foreheads or blond hair.

Excellent setup, and easy to replicate. I've done it this way with slightly different lighting ratios (a bit darker background, for instance) and different light modifiers, but overall this is a terrific starting point for people to try. The only problem is not everybody has 4 lights to try with :) Thanks for sharing in so much detail.