Canon Firmware and lenses ?

[loebas]

Today I was at a photoshop to clear up some fog with regard to lensens I would like to buy.

I asked the salesman that I was interested in a All(walka)-round zoomlens.
I use a 300D and he adviced me the Canon 28-135 IS. I had the Tamron 28-75 in mind.
He told me not to buy the Tamron, his argument was that if Canon would update camerasoftware you might have a chance that the Tamron would not work properly.

He adviced me to stay with Canon.

Is his argumentation right or does he have shares with Canon ?

[Cadwell]

Did he by any chance, have an EF28-135mm on the shelf and not a Tamron 28-75mm?

It is highly unlikely that Canon will make a software change to the 300D that would have that effect.

[loebas]

No he had both on stock

[khiromu]

Some old 3rd party lenses have issues with newer digital bodies, but mostly Sigma. I don't think you will have any problem with your Dreb and Tamron.

[drisley]

I've only heard of this problem with some old Sigmas.
The Tamron comes with a 6 year warranty (vs 1 year w/canon), so if there is a compatibiliy problem in that time, Tamron will more than likely fix it.

[1kyle]

The 28-135 isn't actually a bad Lens to start with -- and it's got IS as well so I don't really suspect a "conspiracy theory" here. You might just like the extra reach with 135 MM as a "Walk Round" Lens.

I don't know what the cost of the relative lenses are but from what I remember there isn't much in it as Canon's 28-135 is classed more as a consumer than a pro Lens.

It's a sad fact of life but I suspect whatever type of store you go into these days you are more likely to know much more about the product than the sales staff (some very high end speciality pro outlets excluded of course).

You in general have a lot more time to research your gear than the sales person who's probably also having to deal with the "Can you Load my Instamatic Camera" type of question as well.

I'm sure either of these lenses will do for the price.

Cheers
-K

[slin100]

The salesman was trying to raise a point about forward compatiblity. That is, a 3rd-party lens may work on your existing camera but will it work on the next, when you upgrade?

AFAIK, this issue only exists with Sigma lenses. Sigma, it is said, did not license the specs for the Canon EF mount. More than just physical dimensions, the specs describe the communications protocol that is used between lens and body. The protocol, itself, was designed to be forward compatible. Without access to the formal specs, Sigma has had to reverse-engineer the protocol. Evidentally, they didn't always get it right, as evidenced by the need to have some older lenses rechipped.

It is rumored that Tamron did license the specs from Canon. If true, I wonder why Tamron doesn't make some hoopla about it? It would certainly be a powerful selling point. I can only guess that either the rumor is untrue or that Canon forbade them to publicize this.

Anyway, there don't seem to be any compatibility issues with Tamron lenses. The 28-75 works on all current Canon DSLRs, including the 300D.

[ron chappel]

The 28-135 is indeed a good lens,but the tamron is sharper/better.Stick with the tamron if that's what you really want!
The salesman is partly right with the new firmware theory but as others have said-it's VERY unlikely to apply to that lens given tamron's warrantee and excellent reputation
It's so unlikely to ever be an issue that i'd say don't even think about it

[jray]

This post is too long... Oh well :)


I will not buy Tamron lenses anymore. It's not a quality issue, it's what they have chosen to include in their warranty (at least for my lens).

First off, although this 'rumor' has been circulating for years, there is no such thing as "licensing the EOS mount", whether it has to do with the physical characteristics or the communication specifications. Canon just does not make such information available. Think about it. Why would they? "Hey there folks, for just a few dollars per lens you too can compete with us and cost us lost lens sales." It's just not going to happen. The mechanical mount information is simple to design for, but the communications specifications have to be reverse engineered. Both Sigma and Tamron have to do this, but it seems that Sigma is more willing to offer free upgrades as the EOS specifications progress than Tamron is which can give the illusion that Tamron offers more support. Once again, think about it. You see posts all over the net about sending in Sigma lenses to be re-chipped, and you never see such posts about Tamron lenses. On the surface it appears that Sigma lenses need re-chipping to keep up with newer models whereas Tamron lenses do not for some reason. The real truth from all I can gather is far more simple. You don't see posts about Tamron re-chipping lenses because they don't seem to offer it, even if a current Tamron lens does not perform properly with a current EOS body.


Below is my experience with Tamron's support for my Canon 10D body:

About two years ago had some problems with my Tamron 24-135 SP. I had just received my new 10D to replace my D30. While it worked on my D30 during the first year, it had started to cause lockups from time to time. I knew it was the lens since I had no problems with my other lenses, and it never worked even once on my new 10D. It would cause a immediate error 99 on the 10D every time. I cleaned the contacts by every method known to man to no avail, so I called Tamron in NYC. I was told that although the lens should not cause an error 99, and they would repair that problem, they would not guaranty the AF to work properly on the 10D. This struck me as a strange remark so I asked, "Why not"? I was told it was because the 24-135 SP was a two year old design.

At this point I was dumb-founded (I always wanted to use that in a sentence). I knew the 24-135 SP was currently being sold, and based on this I was a bit confused by his answer, so I asked "Are you saying that if I buy a brand new 24-135 SP you will not guaranty proper AF performance on a 10D"? To this he answered "That's correct".

This makes no sense to me. Surely Tamron would keep their current product line up to date with currently available SLR and DSLR bodies they have offerings for. Not doing so would insure numerous after sales problems and returned product (ie, lost sales). While the constantly changing DSLR market may require more attention in this area for after market vendors due to shorter product life, at least Sigma has stepped up to the plate in this regard. To add insult to injury, although my lens was repaired, it was made to seem as if it were a gift to me (below).

When I called Tamron NY for repair facility locations, I was initially given one other location other than their own, both of which ended up requiring 5-7 weeks for repair. I called back and was directed to another facility here in California. I was told it would take about 1 week. That sounded great, so I sent it in. Sure enough, from the day it left me to the day it returned was about 10 days. Not bad I thought. Well, it was followed-up by an email which stated the problem was a scratched lens group cause by abuse, and that it had been repaired free of charge as a courtesy to me. Hmm... how on earth does a scratched lens group cause an error 99? Besides that, the lens had never been dropped, hit, or in any other way been abused, period. In particular I did not like the suggestion that it was my fault and that perhaps my warranty may not be valid for future repairs.

How well was the repair performed? Well, it operates smooth as silk, it never produces an error 99 anymore, but it's also not as sharp opened up as it was before the repair. In fact, it's now slightly sharper on the left side of the frame than it is on the right. This is noticeable at any aperture of f/5.6 and below. To me this indicates the replaced lens group is most likely cocked. How this is possible is beyond me due to the manner these are held in place, but perhaps a small particle of some sort got wedged between the lens group and one of the retaining rings. At f/8 and above it appears to be as sharp as it was before the repair. BTW, they were right. The AF performance is quite bad on the 10D, or at least it is on mine.

In any case, I have posted this rant before, although not this complete...


First post here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=165547&Forum=All_Forums&Words=tamron&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=165490&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=4173&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post165547)

Second post here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=175097&Forum=All_Forums&Words=%2Btamron%20design%20autofocus&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=175041&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=4173&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post175097)

[dobova]

Hi all
Just for quick advise, here in Italy, Canon support tells to customer with 20D lock-up problem that it's a lens firmware problem that may happens with Tamron (specially) and Sigma lens.

I own only Canon lens and never faced 20D lockup problem (with any firmware 1.0.5 & 1.1.0). A friend of mine that bought Sigma zoom 17-35 2.8 has lot of problem. Also to him Canon says that it is lens problem. "Firmware of lens must updated!" they told him... luminous future for digital photography is preparing !

Ciao

[RDKirk]

Hi all
Just for quick advise, here in Italy, Canon support tells to customer with 20D lock-up problem that it's a lens firmware problem that may happens with Tamron (specially) and Sigma lens.

I own only Canon lens and never faced 20D lockup problem (with any firmware 1.0.5 & 1.1.0). A friend of mine that bought Sigma zoom 17-35 2.8 has lot of problem. Also to him Canon says that it is lens problem. "Firmware of lens must updated!" they told him... luminous future for digital photography is preparing !

Ciao

Wait. Those Canon support people are jerking you around. Think about this: If the lockup problem was only because of Tamron and Sigma lenses, then why would Canon release a firmware update to fix their lockup problem?

In fact, the lockup problem happened with Canon lenses as much as with Tamron and Sigma. People who had never even removed their Canon kit lens were having the lockup problem.

[RDKirk]

Today I was at a photoshop to clear up some fog with regard to lensens I would like to buy.

I asked the salesman that I was interested in a All(walka)-round zoomlens.
I use a 300D and he adviced me the Canon 28-135 IS. I had the Tamron 28-75 in mind.
He told me not to buy the Tamron, his argument was that if Canon would update camerasoftware you might have a chance that the Tamron would not work properly.

He adviced me to stay with Canon.

Is his argumentation right or does he have shares with Canon ?

It's not impossible. However, the fact is that the very oldest Canon EF lens works perfectly on the very newest Canon EOS camera--they have never changed their EF communications protocol, and until they prepare to abandon the EF mount entirely (the way they abandoned the FD mount--which left me angry with Canon for nearly a decade) they won't change the protocol. Canon has always maintained that they never have changed their protocol.

All the 3rd party lens makers have reverse engineered the Canon EF protocols. Sigma (to the greatest extent) and others to a lesser extent ran into problems when Canon reduced the level of power the camera provided to the lens back when the second model of the Elan came out. Canon did this to extend the life of the camera battery. Their own EF lenses were already very power-efficient, so it caused no problem there (and they can say, technically, that they didn't actually change the communications protocol).

However, several Sigma lenses appear to have been power hungry and couldn't handle less power. It was easy enough for Sigma to swap in more efficient chps. But it appears Sigma has learned their lesson, and have done a more perfect reverse engineering job. I suspect the other makers took note and checked their own work a bit closer.