Disappearing Images on 1DS Mark II !!!

[jhankins]

Ok, the first time this happened I was just goofing around and wasn't sure if I had perhaps not paid attention and let images go to the second card and inadvertently deleted.

Today however I'm positive I've lost images.

The images I lost were in between a power off and lens change, about 10 pictures. Which by the way we preview on a TV to choose the images the customer wanted before turning the camera off and shooting a small number of pictures after that, not reviewing those. I packed up. Came home/copied all images from the flash to my mac and noticed that there seemed to not be enough images. Sure enough, they are gone. (I'm currently awaiting a recovery program to see what it will do).

Now here is the concern, this is a brand new camera, I've experienced lost images twice now (not sure if it was the same flash card). I did format before each use in camera.

When speaking to Canon (who referred me to a free non-canon image recovery program. (As I can't seem to locate my recently purchased Lexar Media disk). They noted that I was using a Write Acceleration card (This happens to be a 2GB 80x card)
They said that canon doesn't utilize the write acceleration in any of their cameras, and that while it will work with 12x, it's not providing any performance increase beyond this. They also suggested that maybe it is an issue with using these write-acceleration cards in the camera. Now I didn't get the impression that this tech was all that knowledgeable at all. Kind of a serious front line guy.

Interested in hearing from others what they think might be going on. I do ensure that the camera is not writing before turning it off, by looking for the flashing LED light. I only insert or remove when camera is off. I eject my cards before removing from my computer etc. I format instead of erase files before use in the camera.

At this point, my plan is to start a test of counting with some shots to see if I can force a recreate of the problem. I'm hoping it's simply a flaky flash card or something, you'd think I'd get a file write error or something and WHY did I see the images on the TV? Seems to me something happened between camera shut off and startup between these shots.

Arggh!!!!!!! I don't need a confidence blast like this with a brand new 8k camera. Glad I did choose the camera that has backup option for those can't miss shots. The bummer is the size of those SDRams are kinda small.

Any comments or suggestions welcome.

[jhankins]

An update. Was able to use the third party tool that Canon pointed me to (that's free by the way). http://www.z-a-recovery.com/sysreq_ir.htm

I had to rename all of the raw files that it found from tif to cr2 but it all worked once I looked at those files in DPP 1.5 I was happy to see not only my files that were magically missing today but also files from before the last two formats perhaps not all but many of those. (cool!)

At any rate, I'll have to test to see if I can recreate that problem with the Lexar 2GB 80x.

I'll post if I get it traced to a particular flash card.

Regards,

Jim

[defordphoto]

I have read a few issues from other MAC users over at Galbraith's forum. Are you using a card reader? If not, get one ASAP.

[jhankins]

Yes, I'm using the Lexar Firewire Reader which I've used with great success for some time now prior to this camera. I don't use the direct to camera connection at all, well once just to see that it worked of course.

[cmM]

Yes, I'm using the Lexar Firewire Reader which I've used with great success for some time now prior to this camera. I don't use the direct to camera connection at all, well once just to see that it worked of course.I've heard people complaining about those firewire readers as well.

[edsarkiss]

i've heard people complaining about just about everything! ;-)

good luck with the lost img problem -- i hope it's just a flaky card.

[defordphoto]

I've heard people complaining about those firewire readers as well.

I have had mine for two years with not one problem.

i've heard people complaining about just about everything!

Good grief. Isn't that the truth!

[jhankins]

Found a post on the Rob Galbraith site with exact same problem that was using exact flash card and camera. It appears we have a quality problem somewhere, just need to isolate it at this point. I'll attempt to recreate today time permitting. At this point I can't use this camera until this is resolved. I don't know at this point for example if it will happen to both flash cards simultaniously as it could be a camera problem, and I've not tested that. Until we can conclusively proove it's not a specific flash card I'd say to keep your eyes open to this problem. Yes, I was able to recover the files, may not be so lucky next time. I also have a ? show up on first image like is discussed in this post intermittently. As in it is ok during review and then after some more captures I go back and the first image has a ?. I suspect this is related as it sounds like file corruption starts to occur at that point.

Post that has this discussion going.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=294465&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Jim

[Longwatcher]

Just to let you know I am using a Lexar 40x WA 1Gb card as my primary CF card and I have not had any lost images so far that I can account for. All numbers are in sequence. If I am missing any it would be the last shot of one of my two out doors sets, but even then, I am pretty sure I haven't lost one.

My other cards right now are:
Sandisk "standard snail speed" 1gig CF
and a Sandisk Ultra II 256Mb SD card, which while it goes faster then my Lexar by about 2 to one doesn't hold enough images for my taste.

I also have some Lexar 256Mb 12x cards, but only use if 1Gb cards are full and/or I am waiting on them to finish writing to the computer.

If it seems to be just the 80x WA cards by Lexar, then that would be very good info to know, although I planning on picking up Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme cards as they seem to be slightly faster in the 1DsMkII.

[jhankins]

Thanks Longwatcher, I'm about to test now. I just tried to make it fail a number of times with the Sandisk Ultra II. So far no failures but then again, this is probably a difficult problem to re-create. Stay tuned! I've put on a pot of coffee and charged my camera batteries. Here we go. :)

Jim

[jhankins]

PS Now I'm about to try the Lexar Again (since I've recovered the files I needed).

[jhankins]

Failure has been re-created on 2 GB Lexar 80x WA.

First attempt at re-create failed which was handheld, Servo, P Mode,continuous at 400 ISO outside. (which was same thing I tried with the Sandisk II Ultra with no failures.

Then I decided to more closely resemble the failure I had yesterday which was on location with studio lights, 100 ISO One-Shot AF, manual 1/60 @ f8.

I changed file modes in midstream from Raw + L to Raw (didn't record exactly when)
I lost images somewhere around there. It "may" have been still writing when I changed the mode. I wasn't paying attention to file numbers which I will in repeat tests.

At least I'm getting it to fail. So we're close. I just need to get more scientific with my testing scenario :) Stay tuned!

[jhankins]

Drats, it appears to be fairly intermittent. I've not had a failure again in over 400 images. I'll keep trying. Once I have another failure I'll count the approx number of images in between failures and then I'll swap to a different card.

[Longwatcher]

Not sure if applicable, but I just noticed 4 images missing from my last shoot with my 10D (just before I got 1dsMkII) using my Lexar 40x as primary (just can't confirm it was the Lexar card at this point. So I caveat the information with the fact that there could be multiple explainations for the missing images, but my deleting them in the camera is not one of them. I don't delete or do any manipulation or saves during a shoot or until I have at least cut an archive copy to DVD. Just take pictures, copy to computer and then archive. Only then do I start working with them.

I had finally had the time to go over the other 1000 pictures I took out of over 1300 during an advertisement shoot. There I was just cruising along and I noticed 4 images missing. From what I could see it appeared to be at the end of a card as the model dramatically changed poses in between, which is usually what happens as I change cards.
I had not noticed it before because I checked by just looking at the last image in each row and the numbers looked correct, but that would be because the entire row of 4 images was missing. I am beginning to suspect the Lexar WA cards as the source for some reason.

I have one more shoot I need to look at that was taken with my 1DsMkII, unfortunately I will not be getting to it until after Christmas. Unless it too had a whole row missing, the numbers matched up when I first checked just after the shoot.

[jhankins]

As an example, the lost images that I had happen on a location job a couple days ago the scenario was I actually finished a pose, plugged camera into video monitor and showed them the shots and they selected one out of the group, then I went back to shooting a different pose. The previous images were missing as well as a number of the 1st pose session 37 images total. So it wasn't like they weren't saved or I would'nt have been able to review them. It's as if the write action for the later images triggered corruption of the file table of contents. The sequence numbers will show you the missing images in other words. That is also similar to the failure scenario I was able to recreate in the studio during my subsequent testing. What I don't have as yet is the interval that this happens. It may be truely random, not sure but it's happened at least twice in < 2000 pictures. So I'm going to try to make it fail one more time to get some idea of an interval and then stop using the lexar cards temporarily to see if the problem is on the other card as well. Thanks for the post.

[jhankins]

To summarize. It's easy to miss that this is happening unless you have a scenario where there was a pose change as often I don't take mental note of exactly how many pictures I've taken. A new process I will now take is:

I will make note of the starting file number I should have: I will also make note of the final image number.

During image download, I will ensure there are no gaps in the sequence of the images.
Download the images and then thumbnail to ensure they are there. All before I wipe the card. I will also likely buy even more cards so that if there is a failure, I can do the recovery operation if required at a later time and storage won't be a problem. I'll also of course now utilize the backup function as well. Anyone seen a 2GB Secure Digital card yet? I've only found 1GB so far.

Jim

[Longwatcher]

I too will be paying more attention to file sequence in the future before wiping a card, but I don't have a lot of cards to spare given the 1DsMkII file size.

The 2GB Sandisk SD cards were rumoured to scheduled for release in late November, you may note that it is mid-late December at this time and they are still not out yet.

It is very important always to have multiple flash cards, as I always tell people. The most likely failure point on your camera system is the flash cards, with batteries being second most likely. That is why I feel a 1Gb on my 10D was more then enough. Any bigger and if I lost one I would be extremely upset.

For my 1DsMkII 1Gb is a bit small although it still takes more images then a 256Mb card on a 10D. Although I will settle for a 1Gb SD card as my primary use will be critical shots when needed, I am still undecided on a 2Gb or a 4Gb CF card. Perfect would be a 3Gb card as that is about the point at which I will still feel comfortable with the number of images that I might lose to one card, while giving me enough capacity for those times I can't afford to change cards (like 4th of July fireworks). I am leaning towards the 2Gb Sandisk Extreme or Ultra II cards since write times seem to be pretty good with my 256Mb Ultra II SD card and I can take the risk.

[jhankins]

I've now got an interval of failure < 1000 images, approx 600-700 images and it's reproducable. I'm going to call BH Photo to see if can excange this card for a sandisk but first I'm calling Lexar to see if they've had other reports.

Jim

[jeremy_koppel]

Hi - just wanted to see if you had any updates to your last post. I am starting to see this problem with my Nikon D100 w/ a Lexar Pro 40x (512MB) with write acceleration. I've seen various posts around the net, and so far it seems like Lexar cards are the common components.

[jhankins]

I was able to get B&H to exchange the flash card. I opted for Sandisk Ultra II card and have had zero issues with it. A friend of mine however brought an Ultra III card to me the other day from another photographer in the area in the hopes I could help recover images. It was completely un-readable. You couldn't even format the card in camera. Eeek. Just proof that writing to two cards simultaneously is still a good practice for those one-in-a-lifetime shots.

Jim