Swimming - Spring Long Course Meet - flash questions too

[Darsk47]

Some shots from a meet I worked at earlier in the month. Let me know what you think. Asking for help on #3, 4.

1. In close on the freestyler

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2505972390_0a9a9a6988_o.jpg

2. Another freestyler's eyes

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2323/2505141995_b06ec03b7a_o.jpg

3. With flash. Played around with the settings - couldn't seem to freeze that hand coming around with the flash. Any ideas?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/2505983728_bf8a8bf51f_o.jpg

4. Another flash, another blurry hand.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3090/2505158491_9bfe739d81_o.jpg


5. Breast stroker with flash. Motion stopped here - different stroke style makes it easier.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2505185981_11b37693e7_o.jpg

6. Coming up from the start.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2506018448_e56f604f1f_o.jpg

7. Point of Impact


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3115/2506036558_883a36552d_o.jpg

8. Butterflyer heading towards the wall

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2506041628_98392e7007_o.jpg

Cheers !

[dogface]

Great shots! I don't think I'd bother with the hand. The blur gives the picture the sense of speed. Noticed the high ISO (1250) on some of them. Did you use any noise reduction and if so, what?

[Paul S]

All & All Great set :) you did good !!!!! I like 4 but 3 could be deleted. Is the sync speed 200 on the 30D ? (the 40D is 250 and M3 is 300.)
If so I think you will have to play with manual settings.
Geez, I miss swimming .

[Darsk47]

Great shots! I don't think I'd bother with the hand. The blur gives the picture the sense of speed. Noticed the high ISO (1250) on some of them. Did you use any noise reduction and if so, what?

Thanks. I agree on the blur, and it's not that I mind it, but I was still wanting to freeze it...just to do it.

Slight noise reduction on some. Not many - used the NR that is part of Elements.

[Darsk47]

All & All Great set :) you did good !!!!! I like 4 but 3 could be deleted. Is the sync speed 200 on the 30D ? (the 40D is 250 and M3 is 300.)
If so I think you will have to play with manual settings.
Geez, I miss swimming .

Thanks Paul. It was a 3 day meet of our home club where I'm the official photographer, so I got unlimited access on deck. Had a great weekend.

The 30D syncs at 1/250. I guess I've just posted 3 shots where I used 1/200.
I was trying to freeze the hand, and not getting much luck. Moved around 1/250, 1/200 - bounce flash, direct flash, half power +/- a third etc....

Don't like the look of the direct flash, it was bounced in these 3 shots you see here.

Cheers - Darcy

[dmwierz]

The 30D syncs at 1/250. I guess I've just posted 3 shots where I used 1/200.
I was trying to freeze the hand, and not getting much luck. Moved around 1/250, 1/200

And

All & All Great set you did good !!!!! I like 4 but 3 could be deleted. Is the sync speed 200 on the 30D ? (the 40D is 250 and M3 is 300.)

If your flash is the dominant light source, as it should be whenever using it indoors, your sync speed is pretty much irrelevant. Your flash duration is acting as your "shutter" to stop the action, and the shutter speed is only controlling how much of the ambient light gets into the exposure. So, "moving around" with the shutter speed is only going to change the amount of ambient light, and if you go too slow with the shutter, you're gonna get ghosting, which is not good.

Many swim meets don't allow flash or strobes, BTW, as it interferes with the timing lights.

[Darsk47]

Dennis
Ghosting didn't seem to be an issue this time around. The flash was the light source when I used it because without it, the exposure was darn near black - I was trying to do just what I've read on hear (mostly from you) to get the 'flash to be the shutter'. Any advice?
Darcy

[Paul S]

Dennis
Ghosting didn't seem to be an issue this time around. The flash was the light source when I used it because without it, the exposure was darn near black - I was trying to do just what I've read on hear (mostly from you) to get the 'flash to be the shutter'. Any advice?
Darcy

I will take stab at it. But I could be wrong :)

#4 your setting were 1/200-f/4-ISO400

My guess is if you increase you ISO and Decrease your flash duration a bit.

[SYS]

When it comes to freestyle, I actually prefer the hand blurred to show action rather than freezing it. In other strokes, such as breaststroke and butterfly, I like everything frozen. You did well...

[Darsk47]

I will take stab at it. But I could be wrong :)

#4 your setting were 1/200-f/4-ISO400

My guess is if you increase you ISO and Decrease your flash duration a bit.

Thanks Paul - I 'll make some more attempts at it .

[Darsk47]

When it comes to freestyle, I actually prefer the hand blurred to show action rather than freezing it. In other strokes, such as breaststroke and butterfly, I like everything frozen. You did well...

Thanks for the comment. I don't mind the blur either, but for the photographic aspect of it, I was trying to freeze the motion.

[AdamLewis]

I will take stab at it. But I could be wrong :)

#4 your setting were 1/200-f/4-ISO400

My guess is if you increase you ISO and Decrease your flash duration a bit.

Not quite.

Increasing your ISO will make the ambient have more of an effect on the total exposure.

The whole idea is to make sure that the flash is the primary (and overwhelming majority) source of light. Set the camera up so that it takes a picture that is at LEAST two stops underexposed. You want something very dark to begin with. Then, the idea is to allow the light from the flash to bring it back up to normal. It would be like having a fan spinning in a pitch black room and you want to stop it. You could leave your shutter open for 30 seconds and get nothing...BUT!...if you left your shutter open for 30 seconds and then fired one quick, bright burst from your flash, the only image that will be recorded is the fan frozen in place.

Make sense?

[Paul S]

Not quite.

Increasing your ISO will make the ambient have more of an effect on the total exposure.

The whole idea is to make sure that the flash is the primary (and overwhelming majority) source of light. Set the camera up so that it takes a picture that is at LEAST two stops underexposed. You want something very dark to begin with. Then, the idea is to allow the light from the flash to bring it back up to normal. It would be like having a fan spinning in a pitch black room and you want to stop it. You could leave your shutter open for 30 seconds and get nothing...BUT!...if you left your shutter open for 30 seconds and then fired one quick, bright burst from your flash, the only image that will be recorded is the fan frozen in place.

Make sense?

Adam, I just setup a fan and took some shots !!!! THANK YOU !!
Great explanition. Now what about day time fill flash ?

[Darsk47]

The whole idea is to make sure that the flash is the primary (and overwhelming majority) source of light. Set the camera up so that it takes a picture that is at LEAST two stops underexposed.

Adam - that is essentially what I did.
1 & 2 are with ambient light. ISO 1000, f2.8, 1/640 shutter.
3 & 4 are with flash. ISO 400, f4, 1/200 shutter. Those settings and no flash in this pool area and the shot is virtually black. I'm not certain on these two shots, but most of the flash I used on the swimmers was manual at full power.

Do you think that too long a duration? Or what else? Thanks for the reply.

Darcy

[Paul S]

Adam - that is essentially what I did.
1 & 2 are with ambient light. ISO 1000, f2.8, 1/640 shutter.
3 & 4 are with flash. ISO 400, f4, 1/200 shutter. Those settings and no flash in this pool area and the shot is virtually black. I'm not certain on these two shots, but most of the flash I used on the swimmers was manual at full power.

Do you think that too long a duration? Or what else? Thanks for the reply.

Darcy

was your flash in E-TTL mode ?

[Darsk47]

was your flash in E-TTL mode ?
No . Manual at full power 1/1.