Lighting setup for cruise book portraits

[mikediamo]

I am totaly new to studio lighting first off. My goal is i have to shoot 290 portraits for my ships cruise book. The studio will be in a 20 ft by 10 ft room. The walls and ceiling are a haze grey color. The subjects will be in us navy dress blues. I am paying out of my pocket not the navy's. The lighting setup is an investment to do family portraits on the side as a money makeras as well. As a backdrop there will be a sky blue with an american flag to the left of the subject. i have tried to research the best options but am very confused. i see people swear by the alien bees and have read equal amounts of raves on the strobist side. Since im on a ship in the middle of the ocean i cant make my own lighting. Im stuck with ordering online and waiting a month for it to get to the ship or buying setups in several stores in ports overseas.
I like the starving strobist setup exspecially the portability and lack of needing an ac wall outlet found on http://www.mpex.com/page.htm?PG=Strobist%20Kits.
The camera equipment I have on profile will be used as well as page gallery for the layouts.Any advice recomendations greatly appreciated.
also i do not have a light meter

[amonline]

Basically, just about anything will work in this particular situation. Heck, a single 580 off cam with a bounce will work just fine if setup correctly. (although, I'd use two) Most ships use a 1-2 softbox setup set nearly 1:1. So, you could go bigger with a couple of AB4-800's in softboxes. However, you could also do 2 580's in umbrellas just as well. 1 softbox would get the job done. So, you're only question is how bad do you want towards real studio gear and how much you're willing to spend. You could go speedlight now and always use them in the future and for other things. I've used speedlights for nearly every situation I'm faced. They've yet to let me down. If you really want quality results, aim for main, fill and hair/kicker.

[mikediamo]

so it sounds like you use the strobist approach. I will admit funds are a huge factor in this im about to ask the command to buy and I wil remberst. Im already saving them alot on this since im doing everything but the price of publishing

[Kenski]

I have done two cruise books and they aren't that hard, just BORING to do. It is just like doing a HS Year book. You need to get them to turn their head and sit all the same way.. YUCK.... ANYWAYS, You are better off with THREE lights. Dont forget about the background!!! But you can always use a flood light for that. These will be done is B&W correct???

I really think alienbees are over rated. I played with them and not all that impressed. I ended up going with a set of photogenics and LOVE them. If you were in port I might let you borrow mine but we have been in and out of port ourselves TOO MUCH lately.

You might want to consider using more then just the American flag too. What about the Navy flag or do you have a ship flag?

[RPCrowe]

Adorama distributes a line of Flashpoint studio strobes.

http://www.adorama.com/Search-Results.tpl?page=searchresults&searchinfo=flashpoint%20monolight

These are well-built but, relatively inexpensive lights which have replacement parts available and also have a full range of light modifiers such as snoots, barndoors, grids and softboxes.

The 150 watt monolight kit is more versatile and will provide better lighting than will a 383 Strobist Outfit of any type.

1. It has a modeling light - this alone will put it way ahead of any Strobist concoction.

2. It has a built-in optical slave.

3. It can accept light stands and all sorts of light modifiers without extra accessories.

5. It uses A/C current so your recycle time is steady and doesn't vary as you limp along with AA battery power.

You could do very well with two of these kits:

http://www.adorama.com/FP320K.html?searchinfo=flashpoint%20monolight&item_no=13

And one extra light for the BG background

http://www.adorama.com/FP320.html?searchinfo=flashpoint%20monolight&item_no=1

You will need an additional stand for the hair light but not an umbrella
An infrared remote trigger will do a good job triggering the monolights.

You could actually make do with a three light setup: key and fill with umbrellas and a BG light. The BG light could give you enough separation between BG and subject - especially since your subjects will be wearing a white hat. However, you might want a grid or a snoot to control the background light.

I would try to use the same lighting setup for all your subjects so that they will look very similar in the cruisebook. Also, have the sizes of the subjects similar. Relatively flat lighting might be the best.

This is a relatively simple K-Mart type setup but, is what you need. Play with the lighting and exposure by using one of your shipmates as a model so everything is set up when the crew starts coming through.

Ensure that the lids of the chief's and officers hats don't obscure their eyes or cast a shadow.

Usually, the portraits should be with the subjects left side towards the camera since the decorations are on the left breast.

A stool is a good way to have your subjects sit. I like their right buttock on the stool with the right foot on a rung. The left foot is on the floor.

keep all the hands in the same configuration - often with one hand gripping the other wrist.

Here are some posing pointers to avoid many of the major portrait problems. However, for your purposes, avoid changing the lighting setup.

Basic Positioning Tips
• Position body and head facing different directions.
• Masculine pose: tilt top of head toward far shoulder.
• Feminine pose: tilt top of head toward near shoulder. Note: Women can typically pull off either of these two poses.
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Hand Posing Tips
• Don't show flat surfaces of hands, show finger edges.
• Fingers should not be facing into the lens.
• Bend fingers at all joints.
• Male hands should be more closed, female should be more open.
• Use opposing diagonals: ie head resting on arm; each pointing in opposite directions.
• Fingers should not be intertwined.
• Never rest a head on a fist.
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Stuff you should have available for your models
• Fresh combs
• A mirror
• Hair spray
• Hair clips
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Session Plan
• Start with head shots.
• Move to head on hands, let the model pose naturally.
• Finish with 3/4 and full length.
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Shooting Groups of People
As a rule, the image should express a tone that all in the group are unified; either touching each other physically, or visually overlapping.
Clothing Choices
• Everyone should have the same toned clothing, either warm or cold.
• Brightly clothed individuals should be placed in the middle.
Posing Tips
• Make men a little taller than women.
• Stagger head heights.
• Pose groups one person at a time, in relation to each other.
• Pose men to the right of the frame, women to the left.
Open Poses are defined as images with physical or visual space between people. Closed Poses are defined as images where individuals overlap each other, with no visual space between them. Note: Mixing Open and Closed Poses works well for large groups.
Posing Couples
• Front to Front Pose - fronts of both people facing, or touching the other.
• Fronts facing forward - fronts of both people facing forward, possibly at an angle, one front to the other's back.
• Avoid space between heads to create intimacy.
• Use lots of negative space around couples in the frame.
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Suggestions for Lighting
Match the mood of image to lighting.
• High key --> happy
• Low key --> dramatic
An Example of a High Key Lighting Setup (four light setup)
• Main and fill lights close to the same output (1:1 to 2:1 max ratio).
• White clothing, white background.
• NO SHADOWS.
• Overexpose background by 1 stop.
• Point background lights at opposite edge of background.
• Meter background at its center, set background lights to +1 stop main (ie. f11).
• Subject should be halfway between camera and background.
• Two umbrellas should be the main source, equal powered, and when combined rated at f8.
• Shoot at f8.

[Kenski]

Word of advice, you get what you pay for. If you really think you are going to do FAMILY SHOOTS on the side, then dont go cheap. That kit you show is NOT going to cut it for that kind of work. The 3 light setup RPC is showing is a better bet. Cheap out now, and you will regret it later. GO BIGGER and dial back instead of going small and having to squish people together later to get a decent lighting setup!


BTW, what lens do you plan on using to take these photos?

[amonline]

Be prepared to install modeling lights on location with those Flashpoint's. The covers will not fit over them in transport. Given, you should carry at least a couple of spare strobes as well since you're taking a chance with this. Those stands are extremely weak as well. Many people that have those say recycle sucks. [contrary to what's advertized] If you go for something like that, I'd buy two more just as backups. The good thing about these is the built in slaves.

Personally, I'd spend the extra few hundred dollars for the AB customer service and support. ;)

Ideal? 2 AB800's in brollies, 1 AB400 background and a Vagabond to run them. Use a speedlight on a clamp as a kicker/hair. You really can't go wrong with that. Just keep in mind that you'll need radio triggers too.

[Kenski]

Hmmmm, Sorry, Just dont like AB... NOW, believe me, I want the ABR800 and hopefully getting ready to close a deal on a used one but overall, not impressed... not at all. BUT, Im not saying they are BAD either. I just found the photogenics more to my taste.

As for the Vagabond, not needed. On the ship he has power and can use it.... Its not needed for this shoot but he could add it later on. He could get away with 3 400's really. Might spend the few extra for the 800's but he could also go with something alittle cheaper too.

One disadvantage of using the flash gun set up, you said you are shooting 290 people.... Hope you have PLENTY of batteries. You will take 2-3 photos of each person. Usually 2 and if you think they blinked or something, you will take that 3rd one. You will take about 725 shots. Do you think those flashes are going to last that long??? :)

[mikediamo]

Well kenski thanks for the offer but im on Mcfaul and we left for deployment last week. Im about to try taking drop lights and using stirophone ice chest with a sheet as a softbox. crazy but very cheap idea till i get state side again to buy real stuff also rpcrow im looking at your light setup but im so new to lighting how do i set three lights off at once? do i use my 430ex as well. on the list you gave me 2 lights and a backlight do i need to by a light for hair? with stands and everything u listed it seems like im in the 600+ dollar range at that price i could get the ab400 kit?

[amonline]

Kenski, I meant the AB setup only as an example; although, I did push their support/service over Adorama. I have nothing against Photogenic at all. They make great gear as well.

However, your thoughts on speedlights are a little off base. In this [indoor] situation, there is no reason speedlights could not be run at 1/2 power or less. I can pull around 400+ pops on just the 4 AA's alone. Add battery packs [E3] and I can easily hit 1200+... and that's on the more power hungry 580 II's. I guarantee I could shoot this job easily with my wedding setup [3 580 II's w/ packs] and 1 set of batteries. ;) [given the stated numbers]

The whole question of the thread is what to buy that's useful for the future. IMO, either route is fine as SL's can always be used for mobile work later with backups. If you never plan to do something like weddings and you want to focus on studio and less location in the future, then I'd definately go monos. Then, it's all up to the current budget.

What's the budget Mike?

[mikediamo]

I liked the idea of the portability thats why i was gearing towards the strobist setup. I definately can't afford 3 580 ex. on the battery note I bought 12 of the good rechargable AA batteries from adorama before i left as a backup for my camera and plenty for my 430 ex. Another reason i liked the strobist setup was they made it appear simple. the kit comes with everything i need and it tells me what i need to use horse shoe or pc. i know with my camera i have both. i dont get how my flash can trigger more flashes via an eye i would think there would be a noticeable time delay that the camera shutter would detect?

[amonline]

Which kit are you looking at and how many are you considering?

[mikediamo]

this was the orriginal strobist kit i was going for
http://www.mpex.com/page.htm?PG=Strobist%20Kits
1 Starving Student Household Kit (SH1) $229
1 2nd Light Optical Kit (SO1) $203
or possibly
2 Starving Student Wireless Kit (SW1) $219
other then for a cruisebook i wanted to use a setup that i can bring to someones house set up in their livingroom and take Pictures of a family or do baby portraits. A backdrop and muslin can be added at any point

[Kenski]

Kenski, I meant the AB setup only as an example; although, I did push their support/service over Adorama. I have nothing against Photogenic at all. They make great gear as well.

However, your thoughts on speedlights are a little off base. In this [indoor] situation, there is no reason speedlights could not be run at 1/2 power or less. I can pull around 400+ pops on just the 4 AA's alone. Add battery packs [E3] and I can easily hit 1200+... and that's on the more power hungry 580 II's. I guarantee I could shoot this job easily with my wedding setup [3 580 II's w/ packs] and 1 set of batteries. ;) [given the stated numbers]

The whole question of the thread is what to buy that's useful for the future. IMO, either route is fine as SL's can always be used for mobile work later with backups. If you never plan to do something like weddings and you want to focus on studio and less location in the future, then I'd definately go monos. Then, it's all up to the current budget.

What's the budget Mike?


Wow, you can really get that much off a pack of batteries? That is pretty impressive!!

[amonline]

They'll get the job done, but I'd be leary about all the wires with those kits if it were me.

Use your 430 as a hair/kicker - but how will you trigger it?

Be ready to use a LOT of batteries. [at least 2 battery changes for 900 shots]

Also, I'd go shoot-through, not silver. You'll get better results shooting through. So, those brollies are not the best choice. Maybe ask them to swap out for the others?

I'd still go wireless, but that's another few hundred at least. [for something reliable]

It's really hard to come up with something on that budget, but I think you've managed to find the best [portable] answer for this job.

[amonline]

Wow, you can really get that much off a pack of batteries? That is pretty impressive!!
Well, remember - you're using 12 AA's per light instead of 4 - but yes, I can squeeze up to that in a situation like this with the right lens and well thought out preparation/settings. 900 shots would be no problem or sweat. There's really no reason you should find yourself shooting over 1/2 power; shooting around 4-5.6 (on a 2.8 lens) and 200-400 ISO max. (and that's just the main) ;)

[Kenski]

Ahhhh, nevermind.... I know what your saying now... Those battery packs are expensive though, aren't they?

[mikediamo]

there was a wireless setup using v2 on the list i figured id use that setup 2 of them and then down the road after ive made some money getting pocket wizards. what did u think of the wirelss setup

[mikediamo]

gadda love tecnology camera discussions in the middle of the atlantic never could do this on subs :)

[Kenski]

Yup... Im out to sea right now and we actually have a pretty good connection... QUICK for a change.. I was D/L a file earlier and I peaked at 5.27KB/sec WOOOO HOOOOO!!! Thats flying for out here...

[amonline]

Ahhhh, nevermind.... I know what your saying now... Those battery packs are expensive though, aren't they?
Yea, about $150 each, but worth it when you change batteries three times less during a wedding/event... if at all. ;)

there was a wireless setup using v2 on the list i figured id use that setup 2 of them and then down the road after ive made some money getting pocket wizards. what did u think of the wirelss setup
Yea, didn't see that... Since you're going to be in a room, I'd think the Cactus would work fine. Just beware that many people have them fail on them. Ultimately, you may find yourself back on wires and pissed at failed equipment. For something like this, I wouldn't rely on them. PW/etc is the way to go, but I realize the added expense is out of the question. I use 4 PW's with 3 580 II's. It's expensive, but probably the most reliable/powerful system I could expect in such a small mobile package. For small jobs like this, I have the Photogenic dual shoot-through brolly kit.

[mikediamo]

what ship u on im on Mcfaul ddg 74

[Kenski]

Leyte Gulf CG-55....

[mikediamo]

if u ever need a second shooter for anything when i get back let me know will do free for experience since i noticed you have a studio

[KYmom]

Leyte Gulf CG-55....


You are in my son's strike group. LOL....
Did you you have fun at fleet week and get any good pictures there?
My son is on the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

[Kenski]

You are in my son's strike group. LOL....
Did you you have fun at fleet week and get any good pictures there?
My son is on the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

Took the camera and wanted too but the weather wasn't decent. I wish I had brought it to the baseball game though cuz we were sitting in the MAYOR's seats since he wasn't there. We cheesed out way down there (we were in uniform) and got to sit in his seats. IT WAS AWESOME! Im not a yankee fan or seattle (that is who they were playing) but it is just the thought of being in yankee stadium.

[KYmom]

If you have good seats it don't matter whose playing. LOL.... Long as it was a good game.
I brought my camera with me to Va beach last weekend and on a tour of the TR last week. It was very overcast their at the Ship Pier.