Family member w/Camera vs Hired Pro

[poke]

Well Bloo Dog, if you ever get banned from too many churches and the photography gig dries up... you can always resort to writing. I had a good laugh :D

Thanks.

Poke

[IndyJeff]

Bloo did you offer the minister the event standard of a 10% kickback? LOL

[pradeep1]

Excellent Post Blu Dog. You brought out some points that we amateurs don't think about always.

[KennyG]

Bloo Dog, now I have stopped laughing, I think I would rather face a 150mph race car heading in my direction than a rabid minister trying to lay down the photographic law. Great post and lessons to be learned by all wedding photogs.

[RichardtheSane]

Good post Bloo, and good humour too.

I never planned to do weddings, but many posts in this forum just re-enforce my plans :)

[jgbeam]

Good post Bloo, and good humour too.

I never planned to do weddings, but many posts in this forum just re-enforce my plans :)

Could there possibly be any event more stressful to shoot than a wedding? Aren't weddings the main reason Murphy wrote his Law? I was stressed out enough just getting my 15 family members to settle down for the Christmas photo. I think I'd rather cover the Iraq war than shoot a wedding. :)

Jim

[OviV]

Bloo,

I'm happy to have inspired you so. ;)

[charlesu]

Yeah, weddings are stressful.

CharlesU probably won't ever admit it, but nude model photography isn't all t*tt*es and beer either.

I've watched NASCAR and sports photographers work their behonkuses off too and sweat like saunas in overdrive too.

I think that what makes wedding photography so stressful is the number of people the photographer has to make happy on the day of the wedding as well as when the pictures come in. Add that to the fact that by the time the wedding arrives, he's already spent the deposit . (In my case, 50% of the package price), so if there's a disaster, it isn't much fun making a refund, much less trying to assuage angry clients.

It's funny writing about it now, but when it was happening, I felt like I was going to die.

Know what? I'm gonna start a Nude Model Photographers thread. Why should i have all the fun.

First of all, great narrative above. Glad you wrote it and even though you told of much pain, you didn't even begin to cover all the reasons I DON'T do weddings.

And, you might, just might, get me to admit that glamour photography isn't all roses. It's amazing what perceptions people have. At the end of a shoot and especially at the end of a long day, I am sweaty, dirty (studio grunge), exhausted and simply in need of collapsing in my easy chair and having a tall, cold drink.

[leony]

Bloo Dog. Having worked as an assitant to a very successful wedding shooter for 3 years, I've got 2 questions for you...

1) WHy would you let anyone other than B&G sign the contract?! That's a disaster looking for a place to happen. It doesn't matter who pays, just who's signature is at the bottom.

2) It is common knowledge that NO ONE IS ALLOWED ON THE ALTAR during the ceremony except B&G and others involved in the service itself. At least here in New Jersey, USA it is. You can usually shoot, if you DON"T USE FLASH during the ceremony.

3) Shouldn't you meet with B&G before the wedding (like 2 weeks before) to go over such things as what's allowed at the church, and the timing of events, etc?

It's not easy, but just about ALL of the issues you brought up are easily resolved BEFORE HAND if the photographer brings it up.

Add this line to your contract:
Please note that while every effort will be made to capture the images requested the photographer can not guarantee that every requested image will be taken due to availability of parties, time constraints, weather, etc.

[cricket]

I am also a long-time wedding photographer. I haven't run into the situation (yet) where I wasn't allowed to photograph during the ceremony. That would suck. I do like the workaround though! :wink:

I always meet with the B&G and whoever is paying me ahead of time. I also find out about restrictions, etc. I also introduce myself immediately upon arriving at the church to the officiant, coordinator, whoever. I double check with him/her so they know I plan on being respectful of their "rules."

As for the amatuers shooting while I'm working... I really find it annoying sometimes. I do let them as long as I get my shots first. I don't want someone's eyes to wander over to Aunt Marge saying "Look here Dear!" and then someone else saying "Wait! I want to get one too!" and the time factor can be another thing here too. I need to work fast usually, and I don't like to wait for them to get their shots after every one I take. I don't like my flow interrupted. But I do think it's not so bad if they take a few.

Having another "Pro" at the wedding would make me ask why they didn't just hire her/him? But, I understand that excitement of being new at it and having a nice camera and a pretty wedding to take photos at. I don't worry about it very much...

After 200+ of the things, you tend to ease up a bit!

Nice to read your posts!

[edsarkiss]

i've been the "family member" at several relatives' weddings, parties, bar mitzvahs. my aunts, uncles, cousins, in-laws, etc always ask me to bring my camera to any important function -- they know i'm a photo nut ;-)

i'll bring my SLR, a couple lenses, and a diffuser for my flash and do walk-around type shots. i try to stay aware of where the pro is, and stay away from them doing the "real" work. i've never leeched off the pro's "posing station" (backdrop, strobes).

i've never taken the initiative to introduce myself to the working pro, but after reading the msgs above, i think that's a good idea from here onward.

how do you pros feel about this situation?

[robertwgross]

When shooting a wedding, we make it clear that we (one shooting film and one shooting digitally) set up the pose, and then SNAP (film), SNAP (digital). After that, if Uncle Fred is standing there with his P&S and wants to fire off one, then that is fine. While Uncle Fred is busy, we will be getting ready for the next pose, or moving gear to the next pose. But, we work pretty quickly, so after about ten seconds, if Uncle Fred isn't done, the subjects are moving and we are gone. So, we give Uncle Fred his chance, but we are the ones getting paid for time, and his shot is not the priority.

The only Pro versus Pro problem I've seen is with Still versus Video.

The videographer tends to have continuous sun guns working, and that light will show up in still images. When still photographers have their Speedlites flashing, that will show up in the video. At the reception, the cake-cutting is especially awkward, since it is a close shot. The videographers and still photographers are all fighting for the best angle, and somebody's light will get in the way. The light on the cake is a big deal

---Bob Gross---

[poke]

I rather enjoy being able to hang back around the fringes... and use the 70-200 to grab candid shots from afar, without the flash. Would this be likely to upset pros?

[robertwgross]

Shooting from afar? It depends.

I informally shot one wedding in the role of Uncle Fred. It was my niece getting married.

She had hired the best pro photographer in town to shoot it, and she passed on the words from the pro. Absolutely no amateur flashes would be permitted by him. In other words, if the Uncle Freds wanted to hang back and use the pro's continuous lighting, then that was fine. Note that the pro had lined up his lights pretty thoroughly, so all of the Uncle Freds were shooting around equipment.

Most pro photographers shoot weddings on a time basis, and the pro has it figured out how much time to spend on just about every pose to finish it all just right. If Uncle Freds are lined up ten-deep, then that is going to slow down the whole pace of the shooting for the pro.

However, if you are the Uncle Fred, then you work it out with the bride and groom so that they pause for that extra three seconds after the pro takes his shot.

---Bob Gross---

[cricket]

I rather enjoy being able to hang back around the fringes... and use the 70-200 to grab candid shots from afar, without the flash. Would this be likely to upset pros?
This would not bother me. I just don't want to back up and step on peopls's feet that are hanging right behind me as though they are trying to get a shot of the Queen!

Also, for any outdoor portraits that I'm trying to get of the B&G, if possible, I want them looking relaxed and romantic. Sometimes this is the first time they have a moment alone together since getting ready, and this is when they can talk and look at each other! I like to use a long lens and get back a ways, and do some relaxed unposed portraits. Someone else there may want to get too close or talk to them, and I don't want to have that happen. Then, we're off and moving rather quickly again!

Sometimes it works...

[Tom W]

Another great post, Blue Dog. Your writing style is great, and your experiences are quite interesting.

[robertwgross]

I think I'd rather cover the Iraq war than shoot a wedding.

At least if you were doing photography in Baghdad, you would know to wear body armor.

After the wedding, if the mother-in-law attacks, you are dead meat.

---Bob Gross---

[martcol]

...I showed him how to goof-proof his flash and camera and I told him when he'd have to be ready to capture the ring ceremony, the kiss, candle-lighting, and the recessional when the B&G leave the church.....
Bloo Dog, I am enjoying your posts (stories)....

Now, can you show me how to goof-proof my flash and camera?

Regards

Martin

[hitech]

I have heard some pros have in there policy, that no one is allowed to shoot the fomals. If uncle fred shoots them, that less print work or what ever for the pro.

I have had the freds slow me down cause they wanted to shoot my set ups.

Then u getthe stupid one who like to shoot while your shooting and there flash is firing.

I tell them all to wait till Im done with each pose.

Here is my photographic Policy

READ 4, 6 and 7 those are the CYA

Our Photographic Policy


1. Upon your signature, Hi-Tech Photo Services will reserve the time and date agreed upon, and will not make other reservations for that time and date. For this reason, the Reservation Deposit of $500.00 dollars is non-refundable, even if date is changed or wedding cancelled for any reason, including acts of God, fire, strike, extreme weather. The Reservation Deposit is to be paid at time of signing the contract. The Reservation Deposit is applied towards the contracted wedding photography package. Client understands and agrees that the entire amount owed for the wedding photography package described in the contract is due no later than (2) weeks before the Wedding Day. Client agrees if the balance is not paid by this time, Hi-Tech Photo Services will NOT photograph the Wedding Day described on the contract with no liability to Hi-tech Photo Services and loss of Reservation Deposit by Client.

2. The payment schedule is as follows, there are three payments to equal the total package price of your wedding or event. The first payment will be made upon the signing of the contract. (This is your deposit) The second payment will be made half-way between your first payment date and your wedding date. The final payment is due 14 days prior to your event.

3. In the event the Client must cancel the contracted services for wedding photography on the Contract, Hi-Tech Photo Services agrees to refund all money paid, excluding the Reservation Deposit of $500.00 dollars.

4. We do allow family and friends to take candid pictures during the event. We ask that photo-takers stay behind the Photographer, so not to obstruct or cause delay during the formal pictures. No additionally hired photographer shall be allowed to photograph the wedding/event while Hi-Tech Photo Services is working.

5. Although care will be taken with the digital negatives and or photographs taken of the Wedding Day, Hi-Tech Photo Services shall not be liable for compliance if failure is caused by an Act of God, Public Enemy, illness, accident, Failure of Transportation, or equipment; or other circumstances beyond the reasonable control of Hi-Tech Photo Services. Hi-Tech Photo Services's liability shall not exceed the contract price stated on the contract.

6. Hi-Tech Photo Services limits any liability for loss, damage or failure to deliver photographs for any reason on behalf of Hi-Tech Photo Services, agents, assigns or licensees for their nonperformance caused by any force majeure or similar circumstances, illness, accident or any cause beyond their control; nor for the loss or damage of any photographic materials, whether in transit or in developing to return of money paid by Client for each unproduced shot. In any event, the limit of Hi-Tech Photo Services's liability shall not exceed the contract price stated herein.

7. Hi-Tech Photo Services cannot be responsible for lack of coverage caused by the wedding party or family not being ready on time, or by church or synagogue restriction regarding photography. Please advise us of any factor that may affect the photography sessions.

8. The quality of the photographs is greatly affected by the amount of time allotted during the photography session. It is highly recommended you allow at least (1) hour before or after the wedding ceremony to conduct the photography session with all parties present to be photographed.

9. The Contracting Party must contact Hi-Tech Photo Services (1) one week prior to the scheduled wedding/event to confirm times, locations and other pertinent details.

10.. It is agreed that ownership of the negatives will transfer to the Client upon delivery of the wedding photography package ordered. However, Hi-Tech Photo Services retains the display promotion permissions described in Provision #11 below even though the Client owns the negatives and copyright of the negative images.

11. It is agreed that the Hi-Tech Photo Services may display and use photographs from the Wedding Day and any other photographs taken for advertising, display, website and internet promotion, photographic contests, bridal shows, public display as in malls, photography books, photography instructional books, store fronts, window displays, studio display,television advertising, magazine advertising and any other purposes thought proper by the Hi-Tech Photo Services.

12. In the event Hi-Tech Photo Services cannot perform due to illness, injury, or any other cause beyond his control, Hi-Tech Photo Services agrees to provide an alternate photographer to perform under the Contract. Hi-Tech Photo Services warrants that the alternate photographer is a competent and experienced wedding photographer.