Nik*n D70kit vs. Rebel kit

[tannoy]

Hi,

My neighbor has come to me with a question of the Canon rebel with the 18-55 kit vs. The Nikon D70kit. I know I would prefer canon for the optics choices etc. (I have a 20D now with too much L glass) but I seriously doubt he will buy much more than the kit and maybe one wider lens down the road.

So, which camera kit is the better choice for someone just buying in with very limited camera experience, and around a 1K budget. I am too biased to give him a straight answer and I have no personal experience with the Nik*n rig.

Cheers and happy holidays!

Darrin

[CyberDyneSystems]

Darrin,

This is a tough question... my gut reaction is allways to say "Canon" .. as you point out,. in lenses and frankly in digital technology and cameras as a whole.. Canon leads the pack.

If we were comparing EVF's or any other pair of Digital NON-SLR system cameras.. we could compare based solely on the models specific advantages and features.

With an SLR system.. I have a VERY hard time removing the system line from the equation,.. as to my mind this is the NUMBER ONE reason for getting an SLR over a higher end EVF.

Saying your going to get an SLR and not continue to invest the system,.. is like saying your going to start a garden,.. but have no intention of adding any plants down the road!

.... all that said...

Based soley on the two cameras merits.. the Nik** wins side by side compared to the 300D kit in a number of ways. The kit lens provided with the Nik** is superior,. and the specs on the D70 body out pace the Drebel particulr in the area of speed and timings.

Many here will argue that the 300D has better image quality.. to this I have no opinion. I would assume they are closer to being equal in this dept.

Thus.. side by side in a vacuum.. the D70 is the more compelling of the two. But nothing exists in a vacuum.. especially and SLR system.. where model per model.. Canon is head and shoulders above Nik**.

Merry Christmas :)

[vwpilot]

I dont know about head and shoulders above Nikon. Yes the pro DSLRs are superior to Nikon's right now and there is a larger and less expensive line of lenses, but as a system, Nikon is still a pretty impressive camera.

Unless that person is definately thinking of moving up into a higher dslr at a later date or looking to have a huge selection of lenses, the Nikon should work just fine for them. Like CDS said, the D70 kit is a better kit than the DRebs when it comes down to featrures and performance. The image quality should be close enough that it wont really matter. The Nikon line of lenses is nothing to sneeze at and if you take out the IS/VR need, every bit as good if not better than Canon's. I have used Nikon for years and now as a Canon user I do miss the lenses, my old 80-200 was definately sharper than my current 70-200. But this isnt an us vs. them thing.

What I am saying is unless this person is truly going to get into the pro level of lenses and bodies, the D70 kit is the better buy in the sub $1000 category and should be everything that person will likely ever need.

[IncompletePete]

Chosing between the 300D and D70 is simple, Nikon every time. The 300D feels like a toy, the quality of the D70 is superior in every way. However, for upgrade purposes, go for the 300D.

[MrChad]

I like the D70 kit much better then the 300D, the Nikon kit has more to offer and better build--I like the Nikon lens better too.

[Conk]

CDS has very good points. I'd have to put this one question out. "Do you honestly think it is worth the extra $500.00 for the D70 because it feels better ? Not me. Not when the two cameras with give very similar results. I'd put the extra couple hundy into a 20D body.

[charlesu]

Hi,

My neighbor has come to me with a question of the Canon rebel with the 18-55 kit vs. The Nikon D70kit. I know I would prefer canon for the optics choices etc. (I have a 20D now with too much L glass) but I seriously doubt he will buy much more than the kit and maybe one wider lens down the road.

So, which camera kit is the better choice for someone just buying in with very limited camera experience, and around a 1K budget. I am too biased to give him a straight answer and I have no personal experience with the Nik*n rig.

Cheers and happy holidays!

Darrin


All else being equal, the D70 is probably a better way to go. However, all else is not equal. The Rebel kit is pretty cheap. Well under $1000 now. The D70 is $1299. So we are already talking several hundred $$ difference and the D70 kit is above his price range. If you're willing to say it's in range too, then maybe it's worth looking at the 20D kit. It's $200 more than the D70 and offers FAR better performance.

If he's looking for a one time purchase and he wants bang for the buck without worrying about the details, etc., the Rebel is the way to go. It will save him several hundred $$ that he can spend enjoying with his family. If he's more serious, then he should re-examine his budget, consider the D70 and probably also consider the 20D.

[Jetmech1]

I was considering both cameras, but went with the Digital Rebel because of price and the fact that I have experience with canon film SLR's. I would rather spend the money saved with the Digital Rebel on a nice lens. I have purchased mine and never even looked back at the D70, which is a nice camera.


John

[vwpilot]

CDS has very good points. I'd have to put this one question out. "Do you honestly think it is worth the extra $500.00 for the D70 because it feels better ? Not me. Not when the two cameras with give very similar results. I'd put the extra couple hundy into a 20D body.

Its more than just "feel."

With the rebates on both cameras and with the kits running about $300-$400 in difference from reputable shops, the differnece is more than reasonable for what you get.

First off the lens with the Nikon runs about $400-$500 as a seperate lens, so in order to get a lens comparable to the one in the Nikon kit you are going to spend about the difference in the two kits to begin with.

Also the Nikon has a faster frame rate, a much larger buffer, a real Ai Servo focus mode, smaller ISO increments which allow for fine tuning, better flash system with ability to control multiple flashes, and several other features the Canon does not.

Does everyone need those? No.

Does that make the Canon a bad choice? No.

But considering that after I buy a nicer lens like the one in the Nikon kit I am spending about the same money and I get a more full-featured camera at the same time, it makes the Nikon the choice in my eyes.

If you decide to get more into photography you still have a great line of lenses and accessories to choose from and if you dont then it doesnt really matter that the MkII blows away a D2H and that my 500 f/4 has IS and the Nikon version does not.

Anyway, both are decent rigs, but for the money involved I still think the Nikon is the better buy.

[tannoy]

I am both surprised and impressed by this Forum! The fact that almost everyone here is a die hard Canon user and that an unbiased set of responses came forward (many leaning him towards Nik#n) reinforces why I read this forum so often.

Thanks to all of you for your replies, I will send him a link to this so he can decide. I still can't bring myself to reccomend the Nik*n...

Merry Christmas!

Darrin

[4walls]

I am seriously looking at the Nik*n as well. There are a couple of reasons, but I think
the biggest one is the better glass that it comes with. If your friend is not likely to
upgrade his camera and just use it as it comes right out of the box, then the D70 is
probably the better camera for him. I have read it several times on this forum, spend
your money on the glass! A good lens is a better investment. The two cameras are
very close in quality and features... I think Canon has a better sensor at lower ISO's
but the D70 high ISO noise is better than Canon's. There are other features too, but
I think the D70 is a better camera... and there are lots of lenses for either line.

[davidwegs]

If the use will be pro, the D70 and if not the 300d.

If money is an issue the 300d if not the D70

If build is an issue D70 if not the 300d

I have not owned the D70 but have handled one and it was quite good and very resonsive/fast compared to the 300d.

I have owned the 300d and it is great for the $$. If I were not on a time line to shoot a thing requiring FPS and startup time, I would probably still go for this one. I like the lens choices and pics better for some reason.

[4walls]

Well, Popular Photography magazine says to get the D70...
...they call the D70 the 2004 Camera of the Year.

http://www.popularphotography.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1156&page_number=1

[HKFEVER]

I owned D70 and 300D perviously:
- I like D70 more than 300D, compare functions, bulid quality, kit len, etc.....
- Dollar value, D70 is much better
- 28-135mm is perfect for 300D

[S230]

This was my very question some time ago
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50304
but there are several questions raised. At the time, side by side, the D70 wins but now Canon had released a new version of the kit lens for the Digital Rebel which I have not tried but think it is better to compete against the D70.

Also, as pointed out, Nik*n wins when it comes to Film but in Digital world, I do agree that Canon is years ahead of Nik*n. Keep in mind that Nik*n is competing with an already released camera. This obviously gives them an upper hand. I've used the D70 and I agree it's nice but at the time $$$ was my issue.

As for noise, the D70 takes FOREVER to process!. I had taken night photos side by side with the shutter opened for 30 minuts, after when done, the Rebel was ready to view and I was ready for a nap, while the D70 was still waiting, waiting and waiting to do noise reduction.

I am still debating what to keep but I am still currently waiting to get the 50mm f/1.8 lens to see if it really makes the difference.

hope this helps.

[HKFEVER]

I am still debating what to keep but I am still currently waiting to get the 50mm f/1.8 lens to see if it really makes the difference.

hope this helps.
If you don't have too many Nikon gear, then keep Canon.

[timmyquest]

I really dont understand how people think it's fair to compare the 300D to the D70. The D70 is newer, and $200 more. The D20 is newer then the D70 and $200 more, yet you never hear anyone debating which one to buy.

Furthermore, as has been stated, an SLR is not just an SLR, there are many components that you can, will, and should add on. And in many peoples opinion, even nikon users i think, the canon glass is just better.

My boss owns a photo studio, he has used Nikon SLR's nearly exclusively for the past 20+ years (he's owned his business for over 50). Next week i'm taking him to best buy to show him the 20D they have on display, and he approached me on this after reading an overview of the cameras specs/features vs the D70’s.

Nikon is simply a step behind in the digital world. Their best PJ camera is the D2H at 4mp. Canon's is at 8mp. Canon announces a 16mp studio camera, Nikon announces a 12mp studio camera...only 1mp better then canons 3 year old camera. Don’t even get me started on how nicely this latest batch of canon SLR's handles noise.

The 300D was the first consumer grade/priced DSLR to hit hte market, months later Nikon announced the D70, at a much higher cost. The 10D was roughly the same price and in many aspects better. The 20D is now out and it blows the D70 out of the water. Can you imagine where we'll be in a year or so? New cameras, same story. Canon is one step ahead. And i say this with no intentions, regrets etc.

My camera is 3 years old (thus I’m not justifying or defending any current purchase), and what you buy is of no matter to me (I don’t have to use your gear). I'm just stating some facts how i see them. Now, go spend ;-).

[timmyquest]

Well, Popular Photography magazine says to get the D70...
...they call the D70 the 2004 Camera of the Year.

http://www.popularphotography.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1156&page_number=1

The 20D hadn't been out long enough to win it :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

Is trhe D70 kit really still $1300.00???

In that case anyone would have to be ... well ..odd... not to just go for the 20D ;)

[ToddMorris]

Is trhe D70 kit really still $1300.00???

In that case anyone would have to be ... well ..odd... not to just go for the 20D ;)

This is exactly the situation I'd found myself in a couple of months ago. I'd pretty much decided that I was going to get the Nikon D70 (wasn't even considering the DReb), then the Canon 20D came out ... Much better camera, for only a couple hundred dollars more.

That being said, I did have to almost immediately spend another $400 on lenses (50 1.8, and Tamron 28-75 2.8 ), which I might have been able to delay a little if I had gone with the D70, and it's better quality kit lens.

All in all though, I'm quite happy with my decision.

Todd

[timmyquest]

Is trhe D70 kit really still $1300.00???

In that case anyone would have to be ... well ..odd... not to just go for the 20D ;)


Thats my thought processes exactly.

Body only
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315793&is=REG

Kit lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315813&is=REG

[Sagar]

I was on the other side of the river. I am a die hard canon fan...

but when I compared nikon d70 to d300/rebel...nikon has come out with a superior product no doubt about it specially built quality and feature set is quite better than D300. but the most important drawback with nikons is limited choice of lenses at reasonable cost. Canon is far ahead when it come to lens choice

but in reality i dont think it makes too much of difference...both are great cameras...it all depends on the guy who handles them than the gear

[vwpilot]

I'm not trying to pick a fight and certainly not wanting to get into a which brand is better pissing match, but this post is just so skewed in so many ways.

I really dont understand how people think it's fair to compare the 300D to the D70. The D70 is newer, and $200 more. The D20 is newer then the D70 and $200 more, yet you never hear anyone debating which one to buy.

The 20D is NOT only $200 more. The 20D from most normal outlets is more than $500 more. After rebate from B&H the D70 BODY is $899 while the 20D is $1449.

That is a huge difference which makes the D70 the much more obvious comparison to the DRebel.

When you get into the kits you get the D70 for around $1200 with a very good lens or you can get the DRebel under $1000 with a very ok lens (actually the kit lens is optically pretty good, but build quality etc. is very sub par).

Furthermore, as has been stated, an SLR is not just an SLR, there are many components that you can, will, and should add on. And in many peoples opinion, even nikon users i think, the canon glass is just better.

That is totally debatable. Coming from Nikon I feel that my Nikon lenses were sharper than my Canon counterparts. The 500 f/4 is as sharp as my 300 f/2.8 Nikkor was, but my 80-200 Nikkor was definately sharper than my 70-200 IS lens and my sub $600 24-85 f/2.8-4 Nikkor was just as sharp as my 24-70 f/2.8 Canon costing twice as much.

I have done this before too and can find a whole host of other people that have used both that will say that below the 200mm mark, the Nikkor stuff is definately sharper than Canon's glass. The place that Canon shines is in the telephoto areas.

So, I am not saying that is true or absolute, but there are a lot out there that do not agree that Canon has better glass than Nikon. Its just not an absolute and both have such good reputations for glass in so many areas that I dont think you are losing with either if glass is a concern. Unless you are a supertele shooter on a regular basis and absolutely need the IS, but the new Nikons will have VR soon enough anyway.


Nikon is simply a step behind in the digital world. Their best PJ camera is the D2H at 4mp. Canon's is at 8mp. Canon announces a 16mp studio camera, Nikon announces a 12mp studio camera...only 1mp better then canons 3 year old camera. Don’t even get me started on how nicely this latest batch of canon SLR's handles noise.

Fair enough, if you are comparing pro bodies. We're not here and like some have said, if your plans are to move up, take that into consideration, if they arent, you arent going to miss out on anything.

The 300D was the first consumer grade/priced DSLR to hit hte market, months later Nikon announced the D70, at a much higher cost. The 10D was roughly the same price and in many aspects better. The 20D is now out and it blows the D70 out of the water. Can you imagine where we'll be in a year or so? New cameras, same story. Canon is one step ahead. And i say this with no intentions, regrets etc.

C'mon, lets be accurate here and not put our own feelings so much into this.

The DReb was the first sub $1k dslr out there, great for Canon.

The D70 came out months later and trumped the DReb. It was and is a better camera when comparing them to each other. It was NOT "much higher in cost" it was $100 more for the body and was $300 more in a kit and DOES have a much better lens.

It was NOT the same price as the 10D as the 10D was a body only so you have to compare that which made it $500 more than the D70 and to get a lens at least the quality of the Nikon's you had to pay at least another $500 more (not even mentioning the fact that Canon didnt even HAVE a comparable lens to the Nikon's).

Also the ONLY aspect that is really better is the build quality and a vertical grip. Every feature the 10D has is in the D70 along with a couple others like a spot meter and the ability to change the ISO in third stop increments.

That still holds true with the 20D. Now its higher in resolution, slightly faster and will probably handle noise slightly better at ISO 1600 or more, but that is not heads and shoulders better. Most features are still in the D70 and most people do not need the extras the 20D offers. Those that do need them wouldnt really be considering the D70 most of the time anyways.

So lets really be fair. Most people will compare the D70 and the DReb because of the price and what they need. For comparable money, the D70 has more than the DReb. To go up to the 20 one has to spend at least $500 more than the D70. I'm sure when the DReb replacement comes out it will be nicer than the D70 and we will be recommending the Canon over the D70. But till that time the NIkon is nicer and I dont understand why so many Canon fanboys have such a hard time admitting it.

[CyberDyneSystems]

VW,

You make some very good points,..

But I think if you go back and look at the first page of this thread you'll see that pretty much all of us Canon "fan boys" ( :D ) did admit it! :D :lol:

[vwpilot]

VW,

You make some very good points,..

But I think if you go back and look at the first page of this thread you'll see that pretty much all of us Canon "fan boys" ( :D ) did admit it! :D :lol:

I know, it was pretty good for awhile. And I dont mean to pick on Timmy here, he was just the easy whipping post. Its just that its like that all over the internet and though I use Canon and came from Nikon I have also worked retail for a lot of years and its my "fair outlook" coming into play and it really gets under my skin on all forums when people dont really look at facts and just get caught up on brand loyalty. Its also easy to say that a 20D is only $200 more than the Nikon, but not fair because you arent comparing kits, you are comparing a body to a kit.

Ahh, there I go agains. Sorry if it bothered anyone and I hope that it was just some of the facts coming through and was not too ugly. I just want to see everyone get a fair deal and right now Nikon needs it more than just about anyone. ;)

[timmyquest]

VW,

You make some very good points,..

But I think if you go back and look at the first page of this thread you'll see that pretty much all of us Canon "fan boys" ( :D ) did admit it! :D :lol:


:D :D :D :D
:o :o

I guess he's right...but...but... :o

CANON IS BETTER! YOu cant tell me otherwise!

[CyberDyneSystems]

:lol:

Yes,. young Timmy.. Canon IS BETTER!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[timmyquest]

:lol:

Yes,. young Timmy.. Canon IS BETTER!!!!! :lol: :lol:

I'll be converting the lady to EOS tomorrow, she dont know it yet though :-)

[vwpilot]

How can I argue with that. ;)

[cc10d]

All the above said, Is it not true that the Nik** will have higher noise (grain) at the higher ISO settings. Last time I checked Canon has truer color and lower noise picture output. If that is important to the buyer. The 20D is one super camera. For the money head and sholders above anything in its price range. I've used several and am so pleased with the 20D that I can hardly believe it myself. Chuck