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sGu
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 13:05
When submit images for an event, are you allowed to submit them to different papers/magazines/agencies at the same time?

If so, can you submit the same images to different clients or do they have to be different ones? What about different shots taken at different times but look alike?

Your input would be greatly appreciated :D

vwpilot
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 13:14
Depends on what your client is asking for. In order to get in you should be working for someone and you should have worked something out with them beforehand so you know what you can do with you photos.

Beyond that, if you are blindly submitting on spec, you can certainly send the same images for them to look over and whoever is first to ask for photos should get first choice and will generally want an exclusive on those shots they buy.

But it all depends on your agreements with your other clients.

sGu
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 13:28
I'll be covering track cycling world cup as a freelance photographer, so I'm trying to get most out of it.

I won't be blindly submitting them on spec. I suppose I need to tell every potential client that images would be submitted to other publications rather than exclusive use, right?

What about agencies? Say if I submit images to an agency as a stringer, can I still contribute to publications?

vwpilot
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 16:18
Who is getting you the credentials? I dont know of any sports organizations that will credential a shooter without some kind of letter of assignment.

But if they are, I would still talk to who you are going to submit to ahead of time so you have an idea of who wants what.

Otherwise what I would do is take your photos you want to submit and send them low-res copies and tell them that the first to bite gets first pick. Then you can send the ones that were not purchased to the other publications that you might work with. I would not sell the same photos to multiple outlets unless they approve of it.

Generally stock agencies will require an exclusive if they are interested in the photos. Again, you could submit low-res images on spec and tell them if they want them to hurry up because if not they wont have the selection of any photos purhcased by someone else.

So in other words, if it were me, I might submit samples to multiple publications, but I would not sell to multiple outlets unless the buyers are ok with it.

KennyG
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 16:22
You have to be very careful when submitting to multiple publications, and even more so if you send the same images to an agency. Just imagine how an agency would feel if they found out that you and they had the same clients.

All you need tell a potential client is that they can have non-exclusive one-time use. That keeps you clear from a contract point-of-view, but you could still run into problems where a publication may get hacked off because you have supplied one of their competitors. It could close the door for future work.

Why not simply go for one publication and the agency? Talk to the publications now, not after the event. You may find one that snaps your hand off or you do have a problem with multiple interest. I don't like blindly sending out freelance stuff, I prefer to pick who to work with in advance, but I know my marketplace.

sGu
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 17:21
You have to be very careful when submitting to multiple publications, and even more so if you send the same images to an agency. Just imagine how an agency would feel if they found out that you and they had the same clients.

All you need tell a potential client is that they can have non-exclusive one-time use. That keeps you clear from a contract point-of-view, but you could still run into problems where a publication may get hacked off because you have supplied one of their competitors. It could close the door for future work.

Why not simply go for one publication and the agency? Talk to the publications now, not after the event. You may find one that snaps your hand off or you do have a problem with multiple interest. I don't like blindly sending out freelance stuff, I prefer to pick who to work with in advance, but I know my marketplace.

Cheers for the advice, I will be making some phone calls tomorrow, a week before the event, hopefully it'll be enough time to get things sorted :D

sGu
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 17:23
Who is getting you the credentials? I dont know of any sports organizations that will credential a shooter without some kind of letter of assignment.

But if they are, I would still talk to who you are going to submit to ahead of time so you have an idea of who wants what.

Otherwise what I would do is take your photos you want to submit and send them low-res copies and tell them that the first to bite gets first pick. Then you can send the ones that were not purchased to the other publications that you might work with. I would not sell the same photos to multiple outlets unless they approve of it.

Generally stock agencies will require an exclusive if they are interested in the photos. Again, you could submit low-res images on spec and tell them if they want them to hurry up because if not they wont have the selection of any photos purhcased by someone else.

So in other words, if it were me, I might submit samples to multiple publications, but I would not sell to multiple outlets unless the buyers are ok with it.

I'll leave out the stock agency for now, the event has more news value rather than stock.

I'll shop around then stick with one publication for the time being.

Thanks for all the tips and advice! :D

IndyJeff
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 17:26
Generally you are shooting for someone. They have the first right of refusal on anything you shoot.
In my case at Indy I shoot for Associated Press. They get the first look at anything I shoot and if they don't want it I am free to do with it as I please.
I shot for another publication once at another track. They made it clear that I was working for them, they were paying me to be there and I will submit my images to them and them alone. Any of my shots that they found in publication from that race and I would never be hired by them again. Go figger, they now have people who shoot for the credential so it was all a moot point.

I have an online racing news service that uses my shots on occasion. They don't care if I submit to someone else as long as it is after they have published. I have never tried it because frankly I don't think anyone would be interested.

If your submitting to an agency, I would definately advise against trying to market on your own. What is their incentive for marketing your shots if you may be marketing to the same clients. Also think about if you sell one to a client who has also been in contact with the agency and you undercut the agency price. Don't think you will be hired by that agency again in the near future.


My suggestion for you tho would be to line up potential clients before the event. Be sure that each of them knows that you will be suppling images to more than just them. Maybe even stipulate that no two submitted images will be the same and they may go for it.

sGu
26th of December 2004 (Sun), 19:28
Thanks Jeff, excellent advice, will keep them in mind when calling up clients.

gmen
27th of December 2004 (Mon), 03:41
There's some good advice here Gu.

In my experience, developing solid, long-term relationships with publications is the key to maximising the sales of your images.

There is no better way of damaging these relationships than by selling images of the same events to their competitors!

Obviously clear communication with your editor(s) will help and each situation is different - but my advice would be to start with one or two clients and provide them with excellent, exclusive pics rather than try a 'blanket' marketing exercise to numerous agencies/publications. You'll find that you will reap the rewards in the medium/long term.

sGu
27th of December 2004 (Mon), 08:35
Thanks gmen, some great advice there.

Will keep them in mind when it comes to communicate with editors :D