Rangefinder film camera - any recommendations ?

[Olegis]

I know that this is a digital photography forum, but I'll ask this anyway ;) For a long time I wanted to shoot film, especially those high-dynamic-range B&W ones - along with my 10D. Buying another SLR is out of question, as I want smaller and less bulkier camera. Simple P&S will not do either - I want all the control over the final image settings (exposure and focus). So the rangefinder camera seems to be the only logical choice - the older cameras are very well built, most of them have very high quality bright lenses, the cameras are fairly small and relatively cheap (I want to invest up to $100-150 in such a camera).

Any recommendations and / or personal experiences with rangefinder cameras ?

[pradeep1]

The Canon Canonet Series:

http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/canonet.html

Very nice and capable cameras. Called the "Poor Man's Leica". May have to use special battery (Wein cell) to replace the banned mercury batteries these cameras used. You can get those here:

http://www.micro-tools.com/Merchant2/batteries.htm

Also you can find these 1.35V batteries on eBay.

You can also buy an adapter to use normal hearing aid batteries with their voltage regulated so the light meters reads true in the camera.

The Canonet G-III 17 was probably the best of the series. You can find these cameras on eBay for $90-130 range for an excellent piece - mint. Make sure the foam seals on the camera have not deteriorated over time. Many sold on eBay from estate auctions are like this and will leak light. Many are overhauled, and the sellers will proclaim "new seals" or "new foam backing" or "new foam light seal", etc. Make sure to ask for that.

Good Luck.

[Alan Neilson]

Another make that you could look at is Voiglander, I have a Bessa-R model which I like, there are a few models in the range that you can either new or second hand depending on what your budget is. I like mine although haven't used it as much, a long with my film EOS camers since getting my 10D. (might have to make that a new years resolution) to shot some film again, (opps but then I'd be breaking last years to to make any more resoltions!!!) hehe

Anyway back to the camera, I like it, and the image quality is good, It takes the screw mount lenes, so if you got one and liked using it you always then buy some top lens for it, although then lenes you can buy for it in it's own make I think are very nice, I have a 15mm, 35mm and 75mm. Another thing is that it is fully manual which can slow down the picture taking process, making you concentate on what you are doing, which I thinks makes a nice change from just blasting away in some automatic mode when shoting digital.

[Olegis]

I'm afraid that the only way that you can achieve an appreciably wider tonal range with film is to use a film which is larger than 35mm. Once you enlarge 35mm past 4x6, the tonal range of the negative diminishes tremendously.

Thanks, Bloo Dog. For some reason I was under the impression that high quality negative B&W films had better (if not much better) tonal range (or dynamic range) than the 10D sensor. I've read several times that B&W film is more forgiving to exposure errors, blown highlights or dark shadows that is - this also suggests that those films have wider tonal range. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


The Canon Canonet Series

Thanks pradeep1 ! The Canonet G-III QL17 is one of the cameras I was looking at. I've read quite a few reviews about it - they all suggest that it's very capable camera with nice (but somewhat soft wide open) lens and very nice quick-loading mechanism. The problem is - those cameras are selling for quite a high price at eBay, I have to try the local used equipment shops.


...Voiglander, I have a Bessa-R...

Thanks Alan. This camera is a little bit expensive for by budget.


I have concluded a small research about those cameras and this is what I came up with - the Olympus 35 SP is the closest to what I want. It's small, relatively light, has one of the best lenses available in those small cameras (not including the legendary Leicas) and spot-meter. Anyone had any experience with this (or similar model) ? How about Minolta Hi-Matic series (they are also very highly regarded, espacially the 7 ones) ?

[meow]

Hi Olegis. :)

I think you also want to fit a darkroom equipment into your budget. You won't get what you are looking for from machine developed film and copies.

The good thing is that you should be able to get an old enlarger really cheap. Go for the condenser type. The modern diffuser ones won't give you the old time punch you probably want. The rest of the gear is cheap and you don't need fancy.

Good luck. I think you will discover a whole world of fun. ;)

[Divyak]

My favorite is the Yashica GSN which comes standard with a fast f1.7 45mm fixed lens. I have 3 and bought them on ebay for $15-20. They are great fun to shoot with.

[Olegis]

I think you also want to fit a darkroom equipment into your budget. You won't get what you are looking for from machine developed film and copies.

Thanks meow ! I don't think that I have a time, and a proper place to set up a darkroom. I've done it before when I was a kid, but I never got very good at this. I've seen high quality enlarged B&W prints from the lab I'm currently using - they're gorgeous !


My favorite is the Yashica GSN which comes standard with a fast f1.7 45mm fixed lens. I have 3 and bought them on ebay for $15-20. They are great fun to shoot with.

Thanks Divyak. The Yashica GSN is indeed very fine camera with some awesome lens according to a few reviews on the net. The problem with it is - this is big camera, I would prefer something smaller and more compact, like the Canonet QL17.

A small update - I went to a couple of local stores that deal with used photo equipmend and found that the situation with rangefinders is actually better than I though it would be. I found a few cameras in nearly excellent condition - two Canonet QL17 (one looking almost new on the inside), Olympus Trip 35 and even the great Rollei 35 with 40mm f/3.5 Carl Zeiss lens (the guy wanted $450 for it). I almost bought the first Canonet QL17 I saw, but further inspection revealed some ugly markings on the inside of the lens, which the seller could not get rid of - so I passed. These cameras go for $50-60 where I live - pretty cheap for a good working camera with a nice lens ! I guess I'll keep on looking ...

[Olegis]

Any more opinions / recommendations ?

[Penguin_101_1]

My favorite is the Yashica GSN which comes standard with a fast f1.7 45mm fixed lens. I have 3 and bought them on ebay for $15-20. They are great fun to shoot with.
I saw this thread and went and got the old camera box. It was my grandpa's, he took really good care of it! Now back to the topic on hand. :D

[Olegis]

Thanks Bloo Dog. I agree with your comments on the tonal range - but then again, I saw some prints from my friends film camera (although it's an SLR, not a rangefinder - but I quess that the idea is the same) - they look great, nowere even near the B&W prints I have produced with my 10D and PS CS so far. I can't explain what it is, can't put my finger on the exact difference, but the original B&W prints just look better to me.

Moreover, the rangefinders have their advantages - they're small, unobtrusive (great for street shooting), very quiet, the lack of the mirror dumping mechanism allows you to handhold them at much lower shutter speeds (there is no actual mirror slap and almost no vibration), most of them are built like a tank and have very high-quality optics. Even the compact fixed-lensed cameras have faster than f/2 lenses - Canon G-III QL17, Olympus 35 SP or Yashica 35 GSN for example.

I don't know what it is, maybe it's the nostalgy - my first camera ever was an old russian rangefinder FED-3, my father gave it to me when I was about 13 (almost 20 years ago), so my first steps in photography began with it. I may not like shooting film after shooting digital for so long time, but somehow I feel that I want to try it once again. These cameras don't cost much ($40-60 in a good shape) and can always be sold with almost no money lost.

[Sekabin]

I thought I'd revive this old thread.

I've been shooting digital for a while now and never thought I'd get into film. But I've recently been getting very interested in documentary photography (I'm a sociologist) and so am considering getting a rangefinder. Unfortunately, Japan seems to be the most expensive place in the world for getting old second hand cameras that are incredibly cheap elsewhere (there's lots of classic camera collectors here). So I'm thinking of just getting a new Bessa R2A or R3A. Does anyone have experience of either of these?