The Challenges of Glamour Photography

[OviV]

Taking pictures of scantily clad woman sounds like a nightmare to me, specially, if my wife hears about it.

Ovi

[OneManArmy]

charles complimented my shots today - I'm on a high!! Sorry to hijack.

[IndyJeff]

Bloo one time, and one time only a lady I knew asked if I could take some pictures for her, as a present to her husband. They would be shot at their house in the afternoon. So I agreed....little did I know.

I get there and she is dressed in a robe. I told her I would get setup while she finished getting ready. That is when she laughed and dropped the robe to reveal that she was indeed ready, clad only in lingere and skimpy underwear.
I was a little nervous to say the least.
So we proceed to the bedroom where she begins to pose on the bed. I am snapping away and directing her. Finally after about 20 minutes I told her I think I have enough. I begin to pack up and she suggests that we do some more. So I put more film in and when I turn around she is buck nekked. Full blown porn is what she is wanting to do.
I couldn't wait to get out of there. I gave her 3 rolls of film, a suggestion for where she could get it developed, she gave me a check and I went on my way....quickly.
I don't know if she ever had the film developed or not. I avoided her from then on because I think she wanted to see my long lens and wasn't just interested in giving her husband pictures for a present.

I don't think I would ever agree to do anything like that again. When I got to the car, I was sweating!

[charlesu]

"CharlesU probably won't ever admit it, but nude model photography isn't all t*tt*es and beer either." --- Bloo Dog, former wedding photographer

Let's hear from another species of photographer: the Glamour Photographer. What's it like? What's the worst part of it? How did you get started? Do you EVER want it to end? What was your WORST shoot? Talk about your disasters. (No name dropping, please).

Come on. We know who you are. You're the guys walking around with shoe prints on your tongues.

We have ways of making you talk...

What's it like? Just like portrait work except the subject is often nude or in lingerie, sexy clothes, swimwear, etc. Well, ok, this is an oversimplification. But it's really not far off from the truth.

The worst part? There are several things but one stands out. You do meet some "unusual" people in this business. I am VERY picky as to who I might work with. At the minimum they need to be sincere/serious and behave in a professional manner. I usually expect a lot more than that.

How did I get started? I am a people shooter. That led to fine-art, which gradually worked into glamour. The glamour started because I was shooting models locally for a couple of agencies. Most of the girls were interested in some sort of fine-art work but ALL have wanted some glamour.

Do I EVER want it to end? Sometime, I'm sure. Frankly, it's hectic and demanding and almost everything gets old at some point. I've thought about slowing down. Switching to something else.

Worst shoot? No-shows. Late-shows. Models who just don't "click" in the studio. Models who misrepresent themselves.

[charlesu]

Answers inline....


Charles,

What I've seen of your work is nothing short of gorgeous. Is there much (if any) fee negotiation involved when a potential client approaches you? When I gained a certain market penetration in my wedding photography and my fees reflected industry standards, there were fewer prospective clients who even attempted to negotiate fees. What has been your experience?

It's always a negotiation process. I still have people approach me for portraits expecting 51 prints for $9.95 like Walmart's Portrait Shop. They don't understand a sitting fee and they choke on print prices.

For a VERY short time, I worked with models and had a few experiences in which their 'agents' (read:'boyfriends') got involved in the pre-shoot interview and as well as afterward and tried to get the negatives away from me through coercion. Did you have similar experiences when you started out? I am sure that being connected to talent agencies helps to filter most of these types out, but probably not all.

Boyfriends rarely mix with glamour photography. I try to avoid working with models whose boyfriends insist on being involved. Frankly, it's a trust issue that needs to be worked out between them and I don't need to be in the middle.

Also, I'm wondering about your experiences with labs. Until I got out of having to supply prints and began photographing with transparency film exclusively, I had nothing but problems with labs. It seemed that no amount of money could buy a properly printed image. I'd pay twenty-five bucks for a 5x7 (not a wedding reprint!) and there'd still be a dust spot or two. What do you give to your clients? Files? Prints? If prints, are you producing them yourself?

Output? Depends on the job. There are good labs where I am so quality prints are easy to obtain.

These questions are for all glamour photographers. I am addressing Charles because, well, he's here. (And he's my recently-discovered boyhood hero!) Everyone else is encouraged to join in.

Thanks but I'd like to hear from some others too!!!

[OneManArmy]

I avoided her from then on because I think she wanted to see my long lens
ROFL!

................

[cricket]

From a female perspective:

I had a guy who was supposedly modeling for Nike, and Wilson (Tennis) and he had an array of outfits he brought to the studio.

I thought I had done a great job and showed them to a girlfriend. She turned red and puffed up her cheeks trying not to laugh, but she exploded! I wasn't sure why, but when she pointed to a proof and asked me if I thought he'd had a good time I could have died. His 'self' was poking out of the Speedos, and because I was so busy being "professional" and focusing on his eyes, I didn't even notice his um, excitement at the session. UGH! I felt pretty dumb!

Then there was the guy who supposedly only was dressing up as a woman for Halloween... Good Lord!

[Mills]

This Is A New Twist From The Ordinary. :lol: It will be interesting if these stories keep gaining momentum.

[charlesu]

From a female perspective:

I had a guy who was supposedly modeling for Nike, and Wilson (Tennis) and he had an array of outfits he brought to the studio.

I thought I had done a great job and showed them to a girlfriend. She turned red and puffed up her cheeks trying not to laugh, but she exploded! I wasn't sure why, but when she pointed to a proof and asked me if I thought he'd had a good time I could have died. His 'self' was poking out of the Speedos, and because I was so busy being "professional" and focusing on his eyes, I didn't even notice his um, excitement at the session. UGH! I felt pretty dumb!

Then there was the guy who supposedly only was dressing up as a woman for Halloween... Good Lord!


LOL Now that's a problem I've never had. However, I have missed details in a shoot. It is very difficult sometimes to keep track of all details, maximizing the impact of the light, etc. and also make sure all wardrobe, hair, makeup, etc. is perfect. With an assistant or two you have twice or thrice the number of eyes checking for problems but it's still possible to miss a detail. Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often.

Usually, though, if something does slip, I see it immediately in the proof print or on the computer screen when I go to edit. Ughh.....

[pradeep1]

I don't think I would ever agree to do anything like that again. When I got to the car, I was sweating!

Can you imagine if her husband walked in on you guys in the bedroom? You'd've had to become Indy-Flaming-Jeff to get out of that one. :cool:

[KennyG]

There are several things but one stands out.

This needs no further comment. ;)

[Tom W]

... I avoided her from then on because I think she wanted to see my long lens and wasn't just interested in giving her husband pictures for a present....



Are you sure she wasn't looking at your 50 mm "standard" lens through 10D eyes? :)

J/K - I've not encountered anything like this situation involving photography. About the best I could do is have a couple of female softball players hit foul balls at me. :)

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

I have waited a long time with nudes or topless or glamour, first I wanted to have the basic in good order.

My first session I was very nervous but to be honest as soon as you start shooting it's just another session, it's only a lot harder, when you shoot with clothes you alway's have something you can use to cover up some imperfections or "bodyfat". With nudes or lingerie you really have to know what you are doing.

It's very nice if the model is in good shape, at the moment I only shoot nudes when they indeed are perfect for nudes, otherwise I will do fashion or something else but no nudes.

Greetings,
Frank

[Ogrt48]

It's very nice if the model is in good shape, at the moment I only shoot nudes when they indeed are perfect for nudes, otherwise I will do fashion or something else but no nudes.
Greetings,
Frank

Don't you think thats a tad bit shallow?

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

Why ?
There are alot models who want to make nude or lingerie pictures while their strong points do not lie there, if I'm paid for a session I will offcourse do it.
When they need it for their portfolio I will do it, but when I have a standard session I will tell them were their weakpoints lie, if they still want to do it, I will shoot it anyway but at the end of the session.

I need GOOD shots for my portfolio and models who look great nude are not in many numbers to be honest, at least not for me at this moment.

What I meant was, that you have to look profesional at the shoot, you have to make pictures that will enhance your model and not on which they look bad, remember that the model will look at the picture and if she doesn't like it, she will most certainly not give herself the blame :D.

Greetings,
Frank

[Ogrt48]

Ohh thanks for clearing it up. It sorta sounded like you wouldn't do nudes of the non perfect women at all. Also i've been drink a lot today sooo that might ahve effected how i'm reading it right noww

[Longwatcher]

I shoot mostly nudes or partial nudes (although I also do one TFCD shoot a month for portfolio use, which more often then not the model still has her clothes on - darn)

No really exciting stories yet, but some minor ones and some lessons.

Lesson one: Always get the model to sign the model release before you start shooting.
In practice these days, I have them sign the release and then hold that and their ID card up and those are the first pictures I take.
I learned this from a very pretty friend of mine who I took some very good pictures of, but she wanted to approve of all shots I used, although I got 5 shots I wanted very badly to use, it took almost a full year to get her to sign off on one of them. Still a friend though and she will be in an upcoming photoshoot in mid-Jan and she will sign release ahead of time this time.

Lesson two: There are certain strange times when women appear more beautiful then others in photographs and while I won't go into details (TMI - involved) it was definately not when I thought it would be and requires some minor but careful touch up in PS.

Lesson three: Be prepared to notice things after the fact (I think this one was mentioned above). I was doing what was supposed to be a topless only session and one lady was posing for me and in about 5-8 of the shots, I can see a little bit more then expected. The semi-humourous part was I thought she had on nude panty hose until things got a bit more blatant with the skirt going up. Although the release says I could use the pictures, I always keep my word and those are a few shots that nobody but her and possibly my heirs will ever have a chance to see (unless she releases them).

Lesson four: Every once in awhile, when the light and pose is just right, I just have to stop and compliment the model (read stare). After the fact I wish my camera had been where my eye was since the pictures don't seem to be quite as good as I think they should have been(although they are still very good). Although I used to thing it was bad manners, the models seem to find it amusing at a minimum.

Lesson Five: Escorts - With about three exceptions, I love having escorts around, they can do all sorts of things I might otherwise have to pay someone for (like hold palm fronds, reflectors, equipment, sodas, and other lackey type tasks). The exceptions are 1. non-friend or non-relative agent escorts. They tend to be distracting to both model and me and they are very picky about cutoff times.
2. under age brothers. These prevent TFCD sessions from going where the model and I might want to go for a few pictures for her portfolio. Maybe next shoot.
3. And the worse is the "I really don't want to be here escort". Can't get them to do anything much and they start distracting the model after about an hour. luckily to date, when this has occurred the models (two to date) have decided that I am not a psycho killer and sent them off to get something.

Lesson Six: Models with noticeable problems -
- Very large birth marks - good for learning better ways of masking off large areas in PS.
- Bad hair day - hairspray and/or wigs are wonderful things.
- a little bit anorexic - again good for learning how to use heal and cloning together.
- ugly tatoos and pimples - Healing tool to the rescue again
- A wee bit overweight - use a couch and make it look like a Rubin.
- A wee bit over-enhanced in the chest area - still haven't figured out how to correct for this one, even when it makes them look off balance.

And the most important lesson - Lesson Seven: Get a girlfriend that doesn't mind you taking pictures of beautiful women without any clothes on. And I thank Ann every time I see her.

Other related notes:
- Keep a makeup kit and mirror handy for backup.
- my girlfriend and some of the models complain that I have more jewelry available then they do. (Almost no models show up with more then earrings or a simple boring necklace)
- On average the models are good for about 60-90 minutes then they need a short break and good for at most 5-6 hours before needing a long break like lunch or dinner. Since I have never shot a supermodel, your sports illustrated's results may differ.
- 3 out of 4 models will be late, I expect this and if they are being paid will keep them for the designated amount of time (if they show up at 4:20 for a four hour shoot, I keep shooting until 8:20 (give or take as much as I can get away with). As a correlarry (base don experience on OMP) 1 out of 4 models will not make a TFP/CD shoot date once confirmed, 3 out of 4 won't confirm a date after initial reply and 9 of 10 won't reply to a query at all.

One note for any models that just happen to read this, even if you don't want to work with me or do a shoot as described or for the rate I intially state at least have the courteousy to reply and let me know why (or how much). And I never met a woman I wouldn't want to photograph nude (mother and family excepted under TMI) (although, I have met a few that would be a challenge to my skills)

Just my experience,
BTW: For the dirty old men of the group and selected others; If you are of legal age (AKA 18 or 21 (depends on state) in the US) my online portfolio is at www.longwatcher.com, they get better as you go farther back (I still need to update the site to reverse this). My latest portfolio shoots are not up yet.
Also on www.onemodelplace.com as photographer(member) #8493, I always prefer this one as I only put my best up here.

[Paul Wigmore]

From a female perspective:

I had a guy who was supposedly modeling for Nike, and Wilson (Tennis) and he had an array of outfits he brought to the studio.

I thought I had done a great job and showed them to a girlfriend. She turned red and puffed up her cheeks trying not to laugh, but she exploded! I wasn't sure why, but when she pointed to a proof and asked me if I thought he'd had a good time I could have died. His 'self' was poking out of the Speedos, and because I was so busy being "professional" and focusing on his eyes, I didn't even notice his um, excitement at the session. UGH! I felt pretty dumb!

Then there was the guy who supposedly only was dressing up as a woman for Halloween... Good Lord!


I was freelancing and living in Cambridge. At 7.30 one morning I had a call from the Editor of a journal whose title has to remain unnamed; suffice it to say that Royalty had a keen interest.
‘Emergency,’ he said. ‘I need a cover shot, black-and-white. Down on the river bank. A couple of undergraduates from the Canoe Club standing on a river bank with their canoes up-ended beside them and preferably looking into a sunset.’

‘And the deadline?’

‘Well, you need to get it to the printer by tomorrow morning.’ He mentioned a Cambridge firm. ‘But don’t worry, because I’ve already arranged for two canoeists to be available with their craft - they’ll paddle down-river to you. They’re standing by for a phone call from you.’ He gave me a number.

The two teenage undergraduates arrived on time, paddling smoothly round the curve. They climbed out and waded ashore, wearing lifejackets and old, baggy swimming trunks. The sun was about ten minutes away from setting. I posed them standing beside their upright canoes so that they presented a slightly overlapping profile, one of them a little higher than the other, both gazing out to where the sun would finally settle and sink out of sight. I placed the camera very low, looking up.

The sun needed about a minute to lower itself sufficiently behind an approaching a weather front. I did a last-minute light reading. We chatted about canoeing until the sun’s disc was almost below the bank of cloud, lighting a few small, isolated clouds from below. I scooped a can of water from the river and slung it over them. It was perfect. I clamped my eye the the viewfinder. Then, one of the boys spoke. ‘Wow!’ he said, with a kind of reverence.

I followed his gaze. A hundred yards along the towpath, and led by her dog, came a monumentally well-developed young woman. She fairly bounced along towards us wearing a thin, low-necked and tightly-fitting white sweater. The absence of any kind of undergarment was more statement than omission.

I tut-tutted at the boys, and told them to concentrate. The right moment came, and I banged off a roll of pictures.

Back in the darkroom I processed and dried the strip of 35mm black-and-white film, put it in the enlarger and switched on. The image I saw projected down on to the white baseboard was a cracker. Nothing short of perfect. The two figures stood there, bold, upright, a lovely rim of light outlining the wet silhouettes. And then, had you been listening outside the darkroom door you would then have heard a sharp intake of breath. Or it could well have been a scream. I should have realised that when two healthy young men wearing thin, wet and baggy swimming trunks are confronted with the image of an equally thinly-clad and lovely girl, the effect is dramatic. And I should have seen it. But I had forgotten the first half of the photographer’s golden rule: ‘Watch the detail; watch the background’.

With growing alarm and sinking heart I searched the film for just one frame that showed a slightly less pronounced reaction to the girl. But there was none. All were impossible. I chose the best shot and made the enlargement. I developed it, fixed it, washed it and dried it. Then I sat looking at it.

This was a retouching job to end all retouching jobs. Bear in mind that I was looking at a black-and-white image and that the two silhouetted prominences were against an almost white background, one against the sky, the other against his friend’s abdomen. It was these plain backgrounds that presented the problem. To knife or paint away part of an image on a plain background you have to be sure of leaving the retouched area matching the rest exactly. (I did not have and have never learned to use an airbrush.) Had the background been mottled blacks and greys - trees, for instance - it would have been a walkover. I would simply have worked away at reducing the black to a grey matching mottle. But I had no option. To re-shoot was out of the question.

It was nine in the evening, and the printer needed the finished job at nine the next morning. The trouble was that I knew he would spot my retouching. And if he didn’t, the palace would. Under a strong glass I worked all that night, practically micron by micron. When I had finished, it was obvious to me that it was retouched. It shrieked at me. But the important question was, how would it reproduce as an inked halftone 133-screen litho image on paper? If it was less than perfect it would actually attract attention. My name would be mud in high places.

In the morning, bleary and uncertain of gait, I took it to the printer. He peered at it as closely as only a printer can. He hovered for an instant over the retouching. I waited, cringing.

He slapped it into his IN tray. ‘Nice shot’, he said.

[Hurricane_777]

I was freelancing and living in Cambridge. At 7.30 one morning I had a call from the Editor of a journal whose title has to remain unnamed; suffice it to say that Royalty had a keen interest.
‘Emergency,’ he said. ‘I need a cover shot, black-and-white. Down on the river bank. A couple of undergraduates from the Canoe Club standing on a river bank with their canoes up-ended beside them and preferably looking into a sunset.’

‘And the deadline?’

‘Well, you need to get it to the printer by tomorrow morning.’ He mentioned a Cambridge firm. ‘But don’t worry, because I’ve already arranged for two canoeists to be available with their craft - they’ll paddle down-river to you. They’re standing by for a phone call from you.’ He gave me a number.

The two teenage undergraduates arrived on time, paddling smoothly round the curve. They climbed out and waded ashore, wearing lifejackets and old, baggy swimming trunks. The sun was about ten minutes away from setting. I posed them standing beside their upright canoes so that they presented a slightly overlapping profile, one of them a little higher than the other, both gazing out to where the sun would finally settle and sink out of sight. I placed the camera very low, looking up.

The sun needed about a minute to lower itself sufficiently behind an approaching a weather front. I did a last-minute light reading. We chatted about canoeing until the sun’s disc was almost below the bank of cloud, lighting a few small, isolated clouds from below. I scooped a can of water from the river and slung it over them. It was perfect. I clamped my eye the the viewfinder. Then, one of the boys spoke. ‘Wow!’ he said, with a kind of reverence.

I followed his gaze. A hundred yards along the towpath, and led by her dog, came a monumentally well-developed young woman. She fairly bounced along towards us wearing a thin, low-necked and tightly-fitting white sweater. The absence of any kind of undergarment was more statement than omission.

I tut-tutted at the boys, and told them to concentrate. The right moment came, and I banged off a roll of pictures.

Back in the darkroom I processed and dried the strip of 35mm black-and-white film, put it in the enlarger and switched on. The image I saw projected down on to the white baseboard was a cracker. Nothing short of perfect. The two figures stood there, bold, upright, a lovely rim of light outlining the wet silhouettes. And then, had you been listening outside the darkroom door you would then have heard a sharp intake of breath. Or it could well have been a scream. I should have realised that when two healthy young men wearing thin, wet and baggy swimming trunks are confronted with the image of an equally thinly-clad and lovely girl, the effect is dramatic. And I should have seen it. But I had forgotten the first half of the photographer’s golden rule: ‘Watch the detail; watch the background’.

With growing alarm and sinking heart I searched the film for just one frame that showed a slightly less pronounced reaction to the girl. But there was none. All were impossible. I chose the best shot and made the enlargement. I developed it, fixed it, washed it and dried it. Then I sat looking at it.

This was a retouching job to end all retouching jobs. Bear in mind that I was looking at a black-and-white image and that the two silhouetted prominences were against an almost white background, one against the sky, the other against his friend’s abdomen. It was these plain backgrounds that presented the problem. To knife or paint away part of an image on a plain background you have to be sure of leaving the retouched area matching the rest exactly. (I did not have and have never learned to use an airbrush.) Had the background been mottled blacks and greys - trees, for instance - it would have been a walkover. I would simply have worked away at reducing the black to a grey matching mottle. But I had no option. To re-shoot was out of the question.

It was nine in the evening, and the printer needed the finished job at nine the next morning. The trouble was that I knew he would spot my retouching. And if he didn’t, the palace would. Under a strong glass I worked all that night, practically micron by micron. When I had finished, it was obvious to me that it was retouched. It shrieked at me. But the important question was, how would it reproduce as an inked halftone 133-screen litho image on paper? If it was less than perfect it would actually attract attention. My name would be mud in high places.

In the morning, bleary and uncertain of gait, I took it to the printer. He peered at it as closely as only a printer can. He hovered for an instant over the retouching. I waited, cringing.

He slapped it into his IN tray. ‘Nice shot’, he said.

Amazing story. :)

[crsouser]

Taking pictures of scantily clad woman sounds like a nightmare to me, specially, if my wife hears about it.

Ovi

My experience is similar to Crickets. You get so involved in being behind the camera that you don't always notice some of the things going on with the model; or simply they simply become the subject of your photograph vs. a scantly clad or naked (and potentially aroused) person in front of your lens.

The challenge I find..and maybe it is just me and my inexperience or the models I have worked with so far.. is getting it took look natural and no so posed. Sometimes that is what you are going for.. but for me it isn't.

So I guess my biggest challenge is getting it to look natural, tasteful, and also sexy all at the same point. Some of the best results I have gotten so far is having a models husband stand behind me and for them to focus on their husband or boyfriend (which I admit is a little nerve racking to me too).

Christopher

[sandro9mm]

I'm not pro, and I'm not being payed for the job... but I do shoot some 'friends' in the college :) well they think they are as good as models, but ehm... anyhow its fun and enjoyable - especially what comes in a form of THANK U.