My big chance!

[jnick]

Backstory:

My cousin and I go to te same private college. Two weeks ago, he graduated and had asked me if I would mind to take photographs. Of course I obilged and on I went. I also happen to work for the IT department at my college. I told them I couldn't work graduation due to this commitment.

Graduation came, which was a two day event, and I went nuts! I shot over 500 pictures, some of which I really like! I edited all the shots, and put them on CD for my cousin. His family loved them! I then was getting requests from college students that wanted copies of the images. Therefore, I decided to give smugmug a go. I created my site, layout and all, and uploaded all of the graduation images. Unfortunately I've made $0 so far, however, that gallery has almost 7,000 views, which I'm stoked about!

I decided to ask my boss, who also was my photography teacher, if he'd critique my shots. When he heard I took photos, he told me to contact the web developer ASAP because the photographer they paid big bucks for (who's also a professor) has given them ZERO images and it's been two weeks! Hell, in two weeks, I edited all of my shots, AND created my own website! But that's another story...

Anyway, my boss was saying how technically they may own the images since I was on college time. That was until I told him I wasn't working that day. He then said that they could own the images since I used their gear. That was until I reminded him I had my own gear that day. At that point he said, "Oh ok, good then. If you want to charge, it's up to you, however since he already paid one photographer he may not be able to pay you."

With that said, the only way I'm forking the images over is for payment. If they're willing to pay, they can use them on their site. Mainly because I have the images on my smugmug account for students and their families to buy prints. If I let the college put the images on their site for free, students can easily get them from the site at no cost.

My question however, is how much to charge, or at least put on the table? According to another worker in my department, the photographer/professor they paid got well over $1,000 to shoot the event. Obviously he's a professional and I wouldn't charge that much. However, I was thinking around $3-400...does that sound fair?

This would be the first time I'm being paid for my work. Granted, it may not be the best and some shots are OOF/blurred, but I do think the images are rather decent. I honestly worked my ass off that day, shooting non-stop. I pretty much missed the entire ceremony :p. Most of the images were from the 75-300, which is "eh" in IQ. However, I think it did pretty good!

The images can be seen at http://jnick.smugmug.com (go to galleries > MSMC Graduation 2008)

Any opinions on this siuation are appreciated.

[PhotosGuy]

Tough call. If they paid you, would you still be able to sell prints?
IF you sold 10% of those 500 shots at $10, you'd make $500. Remember, I said "IF", & probably 1/2 of that 10% would just print from the web images. How many of those 7000 hits would you expect to buy? And, what would you charge?

Maybe someone else has a better take on this. Let us know what you decide.

[amfoto1]

Hi,

Why, exactly, do you think your images are worth any less than the other photographers?
If they get serious about buying from you, ask for the same thing they paid him. That's only fair.

And, ask for a link from their site to your gallery. That should help drive traffic your way.

Not sure about that boss/teacher, by the way... He made two stabs at stealing your copyrighted materials from you before he finally gave up! I hope he was just joking with you.

Oh, and you might also clarify with him that using their equipment to shoot in no way would transfer your copyright ownership to them, unless there was some written stipulation you sign to that effect when you check out the equipment.

I hope your Smugmug galleries only have low res images and image downloads are blocked. Otherwise that might explain all those views and no sales.

If they buy your photos to use on the website, get a written agreement (and "image usage license") and be wary of anything like "buy out of all rights" or that might allow them to turn around and sell or provide your photos to anyone else, or that might prevent you from selling them to individuals like you hope to do.

[jnick]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Amphoto, he was VERY serious when he was talking about equipment and being on the jobs time.

Also, you can feel free to check my smugmug, however, I have right click protection on, and the image sizes are Large.

If they do decide to buy the photos to use, I will most definitely draft a written agreement. Thank you for mentioning that!

[DrFil]

couple of comments:

why did you take pictures of all those people? it seems like you took pictures of a lot of people that weren't your cousin's friends and that kind of creates for an awkward situation. i wouldn't really want somebody taking my picture like that. did you take pictures with the hope of selling them?

also, many of the pictures you uploaded aren't the greatest shots. like you said, there're some that're OOF and there're also some that're overexposed or poorly composed. some shots are also very unflattering in regards to the subject. generally, a lot of the pictures you put up shouldn't even be keepers. a large portion of the pictures could be made much better through some post-processing though (maybe even using some batch processing). i think you would be taken more seriously if you just put up the really nice shots, opting for quality over quantity because most of the pictures don't look very professional. another problem is that it's hard to get a good candid shot that makes the person look good. it's much easier to produce flattering pictures if people pose for your pictures. i think candid photography leads to a much lower keeper rate.

i'm sorry i'm being a bit negative, but these are just my thoughts. it's certainly commendable that you put a lot of effort into it and i think you came out with a lot of nice pictures. the photography prof certainly does seem sketchy with the whole ownership thing. i wish you luck in getting some money out of the ordeal because it certainly cost you a bunch with all your time and effort.

as a last note, to get a picture, you could simply just print screen and get it that way instead of right clicking and saving. however, i think most people aren't smart enough to go a roundabout way like that to get pictures.

[PhotosGuy]

i wouldn't really want somebody taking my picture like that. You can always ask that it be deleted. Shooting is a learning process. Shoot lots. Then learn to think before shooting. did you take pictures with the hope of selling them? Answered in the 1st post. also, many of the pictures you uploaded aren't the greatest shots. Pro trick: Don't show the crappy ones. ;) you could simply just print screen and get it that way True, but they'd be low resolution. Watermarking helps. And out of proportion images also helps.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=519853

[jnick]

Actually, most of the people in the shots were my cousins or MY close friends. Remember, I go to the college too :). Once everyone saw me there, they immediately asked to see the shots, and so far their response has been positive.

In regards to the quality of the pictures, again, I'll be the first to say that it's not my best work. Pairing a 75-300 and a low light situation (under a HUGE tent) wasn't fun. I even had my monopod AND flash!

In regards to composition, that was the last thing on my mind this day. I don't know if you ever shot a graduation as a GUEST, but it's far from easy. The line of graduates is constantly moving, and half of them were camera shy and would give me a glance then immidately look away, or down. Also, there was NO moving where I was. There was a line of people along the line, that if I didn't know the girl in the first image, who gave me that spot, I wouldn't have had half the images.

In the end I'm looking at it this way. They're no where near my best and I'm even disappointed in some of them. However, compared to the numerous photos I saw on facebook from other people's families, they are top notch. The average P&S couldn't even handle the scenario, so therefore, I'm thankful for what I got!

I do appreciate the criticism though! It does help me realize what to concentrate on next time.

[ndelacova]

First, as was stated in an ealier post, never put out a bad image for view. People will tend to remember or point out that bad image rather than all the other good ones you may have.
Second, do not give out any images. If they want them, let them order them. Your prices seem more than reasonable. If none get sold, chalk it up as a learning experience.