Need some advice

[swatcop169]

This is for the professional's here.

I was contacted by the hockey team director of sales and marketing about me becoming their photographer.

We meet tonight and he really loves the photo's, everyone he's showed them to loves them.

He wants to make me the photographer, here's the catch though. They are a new team, first year playing, and they can't pay me. He did say however that he would put me in the book they sell every game at the door (full, half page advertising), I would get all the credit for the photo's, links on the website, etc. I would also be able to sell any of the prints I shot. He wants to use me to shoot the cover of the book they sell at the beginning of the game, wants me to do trading cards, and 4-5 players print 8 x 10's and have them sign them, along with some other stuff. He said next year we could talk about a salary, but at this point just not enough money to go around (which I can understand).

So from this, what would you suggest?

[ppuga]

Sounds like a good opportunity if you want to become a pro and start to get an extra income of your hobbie, I'm not a pro, but my opinion will be that you take the opportunity, and negociate with them things for this "assignmet' doesn't cost you either, dont know, may be your costs, parking, entrances, cds for backup, if they want prints, etc. That way you make a good portfolio of hockey, you get free advertising, and you have fun. And in the future may be they will pay you or this will work for you to get new assignments.

Luck!

[robertwgross]

Well, it sounds like the director is simply trying to negotiate a cheap deal. He wants to get as much as he can from you for no cost to him. In a way, that is a good way to negotiate. They may try to use you a lot at no cost, and that would be back-breaking to you. On the other hand, you see some business opportunity that might grow into something lucrative.

If you can negotiate this so that you get a slightly better deal, it would be worthwhile. For example, if they paid you some rock-bottom fee for each day they call you, that would limit the amount of your time wasted.

You have no assurances that they will keep you on as the team photographer even after you invest your own time.

Try them for a little more.

---Bob Gross---

[swatcop169]

Thanks, this is what is was giving to me, told him I would get back with him after looking things over and we could discuss the issue alot more.

I do see it as a great chance to get my name out, get some free advertising. Just need to work on some other things.

[cricket]

Perhaps a written agreement? Be careful!

And have fun!

[swatcop169]

Perhaps a written agreement? Be careful!

And have fun!
I had thought about that, anything I should look for? Something I can look at, perhaps on the net?

[Divyak]

If you are shooting digital, why not create a gallery using Exhibit Engine and utilize the paypal module. Just point the players to your site and let them make a purchase of your images. I have used http://www.photoreflect.com for sporting events and it works great as well. As far as creating sports cards, you can do that easily through http://www.burrellprolabs.com

Best of luck

Terry Divyak
http://www.terrydivyak.com

[IndyJeff]

Swatcop I have some questions first.......

Who gets what off the sales of the prints? Who markets those prints? Who produces the prints?

Now if the team is paying for all of this then you can negotiate for a percentage. Get in writing that any images used in house for advertising etc is for a one year use. Also a contract for exclusive shooting as the team photographer for a period of 3 years with a salary to be named in a contract renweal after the first year. have a lawyer draw up the contract. It may cost a couple of hundered but would be well worth it in the long run.

If your looking at posting online for sales, if they will go for that, in addition to onsite sales take a look at printroom.com. It is easy to use and thier PSM makes uploads easy. Post a thumbnail and when a purchase is made you upload the fullsize file. Thumbs are about 20-30 seconds. Full size takes anywhere from 4-20 minutes depending on your connection. I average maybe 7 minutes for fullsize. If you have any questions on printroom, PM me.

[charlesu]

Swatcop I have some questions first.......

Who gets what off the sales of the prints? Who markets those prints? Who produces the prints?

Now if the team is paying for all of this then you can negotiate for a percentage. Get in writing that any images used in house for advertising etc is for a one year use. Also a contract for exclusive shooting as the team photographer for a period of 3 years with a salary to be named in a contract renweal after the first year. have a lawyer draw up the contract. It may cost a couple of hundered but would be well worth it in the long run.

If your looking at posting online for sales, if they will go for that, in addition to onsite sales take a look at printroom.com. It is easy to use and thier PSM makes uploads easy. Post a thumbnail and when a purchase is made you upload the fullsize file. Thumbs are about 20-30 seconds. Full size takes anywhere from 4-20 minutes depending on your connection. I average maybe 7 minutes for fullsize. If you have any questions on printroom, PM me.


I agree with the idea that this guy is trying to negotiate a cheap deal.

I also agree that if they are SELLING stuff, you should get some kind of percentage.

You don't have to be a prick, but your time is worth something too. Otherwise you are hosing yourself and everyone else in your position. Plus you are sticking it to working pros who are trying to pay the bills.

Think of it this way....the value of your time should not be goverened by someone's ability to pay.

[Penguin_101_1]

I'm not a pro, but maybe for this year free tickets - all year - anywere you want in the arena. And maybe a agreement that you will get pay next year.

[swatcop169]

I get in free now, They gave me a all access pass so I can move around anywhere to take the pictures.

I do like the idea of percent's off each thing. I'm waiting on them to send me what they have worked up then I can start to work with them on it.

[charlesu]

I'm not a pro, but maybe for this year free tickets - all year - anywere you want in the arena. And maybe a agreement that you will get pay next year.


BUMBLES!!!!!

[IndyJeff]

Swatcop I would work one year off the percentage. Your both taking a chance on a new venture you with time and them with capital but, next year I would want base pay plus a smaller percentage. Not much smaller but smaller. Say this year it would be 40% or 50% and next year you would ask for 25 or 30%.
The following year they will have a better idea of how to market the products and should see a climb in sales so a smaller percentage could easily result in a higher amount for you.

Next year I would also negotiate fees for ad uses, based upon the going rate for such use. If they want to pay you for the photos they use then accept a smaller game fee. If they don't want to work it that way and get free use of all your work for web and ads, ask for a higher base pay. Just add a clause that any work that is published in any media, i.e. newspaper or magazine, you are to be compensated by that media seperately and solely. Once your in, contact local papers and make them aware that you will be at every game and can supply them with images for their publication. if they are interested negotiate a per photo fee then. Findout who covers the games for their paper as a writer and establish a relationship with him. He may advise you ahead of time that he will be doing a story on Ron Hockeystick, the new rookie and will need an accompanying photo. For this reason, attend a practice and get a close headshot of each player and keep them on file.

Be advised that as soon as the game is over you will need to begin to edit and send any images for the paper ASAP. My guess would be a midnight deadline at the latest is what a morning daily will expect. Try to arrange a place where you will have privacy and an internet connection onsite. You can probably have any images selected and in the process of transmitting before you would be out of the parking lot. Fast service goes a long way with editors.

Also no matter what you ask for in salary be prepared for them to probably ask you to come down in price. Agree to do that but because they want the lower price per game, you just turn the images over to them on cd and let them do the processing. Once you explain that the game lasts about 2-3 hours and when your done shooting you begin the editting and post processing process which for the amount of shots you will be taking should be at least 1 to 1-1/2 the time the game ran. So instead of a 2-3 shoot, your looking at 3-4 1/2 hours post game work. That will make your price a bit more reasonable to them, hopefully.