What to do? Client not paying invoice and lack of or no communication.

[Dan Lorth]

Hey everyone,
I just thought I would run this by a few more experienced and cooler heads than I. Here it goes:


Background
I was hired for a shoot last month for a University who does an annual fashion show. It is not very high profile but it certainly isnt a shoddily run event and it does make the local papers.

The event organizers hired me to do the event under the agreement that I would deliver images of the actual event AND each of the models in a "studio-like" setup in backstage. This setup would allow me to deliver images of each individual outfit and the actual show and environment.


One day before the show
After a few last minute questions about the setup (they still had not given us any sort of clue about what the venue was like after months of so called preperation) and firming up what they wanted us to deliver the event organizers told us that they would not have us do the "studio shots" in backstage anymore and wanted us to focus on getting the environmental documentary style shots more. This confused us but we agreed and we moved on. That was a run on sentence.

Day of show
The day of show arrives and after realizing we had been given the videographers time table instead of the photographers time table, thus arriving way too early, we decided to roam around and shoot anyways.

We met up with the event organizers and they gave us passes to go whevever we pleased and instructed us "to just shoot everything".

After the show to present
So we work the entire show, about 11 hours of shooting even though we were only contracted to shoot 3 and we deliver the images 2 days after on CD. They were low-resolution samples to give the organizers an idea of what our shots looked like and we instructed them to tell us which they wanted full resolutions of and we would post process those.

The event organizers then tell us that the images were not what they had hoped for, and that they were expecting shots of every single outfit. Now, understand that they told us that they did not want us to bring the equipment to shoot the outfits backstage as the models came off the runway. They also told us to simply shoot everything the day of the show.

We were dumbfounded. How could they expect 2 people to get shots of every single outfit during the show without a proper lighting setup (their lights were okay, but certainly not fashion week standard) and with the fast paced nature of the show. The show lasted for roughly an hour and there were roughly 200-250 outfits being shown.

Regardless, we moved on and asked them which images they DID like and wanted us to deliver. No response. We emailed them again and called. No response. I called again and asked them very politely if they could get in touch with us because we need to know when we are getting paid and which images they want. I recieved a call back that said they needed to talk to an official at the school who would release payment. This was on June 2nd. It is now the 14th and I have not had a response to any calls or emails. The only payment I have recieved was the original date retainer.


So here is my question for those of you who have cared enough to read this entire essay of a post:

What should I do? I know that losing my cool and getting heated is just a bad way to go about this but it is hard not to become a little insulted when they dont return calls and have been so insanely bad at logistics from the get go.

Should I invoice them yet again? Should I increase the amount? Any advice is appreciated.

[taylorwilsdon]

Sounds like they changed the terms on you and you didn't get it in writing - fatal flaw there.

Keep invoicing, at least for the hours you spent there.

[dekalbSTEEL]

Public or private university?

[Dan Lorth]

Public or private university?
it is a public university to my understanding of the title.

[wyofizz]

Government entities often can take at least 30 days to process payment.

Dave

[ed rader]

Hey everyone,
I just thought I would run this by a few more experienced and cooler heads than I. Here it goes:


Background
I was hired for a shoot last month for a University who does an annual fashion show. It is not very high profile but it certainly isnt a shoddily run event and it does make the local papers.

The event organizers hired me to do the event under the agreement that I would deliver images of the actual event AND each of the models in a "studio-like" setup in backstage. This setup would allow me to deliver images of each individual outfit and the actual show and environment.


One day before the show
After a few last minute questions about the setup (they still had not given us any sort of clue about what the venue was like after months of so called preperation) and firming up what they wanted us to deliver the event organizers told us that they would not have us do the "studio shots" in backstage anymore and wanted us to focus on getting the environmental documentary style shots more. This confused us but we agreed and we moved on. That was a run on sentence.

Day of show
The day of show arrives and after realizing we had been given the videographers time table instead of the photographers time table, thus arriving way too early, we decided to roam around and shoot anyways.

We met up with the event organizers and they gave us passes to go whevever we pleased and instructed us "to just shoot everything".

After the show to present
So we work the entire show, about 11 hours of shooting even though we were only contracted to shoot 3 and we deliver the images 2 days after on CD. They were low-resolution samples to give the organizers an idea of what our shots looked like and we instructed them to tell us which they wanted full resolutions of and we would post process those.

The event organizers then tell us that the images were not what they had hoped for, and that they were expecting shots of every single outfit. Now, understand that they told us that they did not want us to bring the equipment to shoot the outfits backstage as the models came off the runway. They also told us to simply shoot everything the day of the show.

We were dumbfounded. How could they expect 2 people to get shots of every single outfit during the show without a proper lighting setup (their lights were okay, but certainly not fashion week standard) and with the fast paced nature of the show. The show lasted for roughly an hour and there were roughly 200-250 outfits being shown.

Regardless, we moved on and asked them which images they DID like and wanted us to deliver. No response. We emailed them again and called. No response. I called again and asked them very politely if they could get in touch with us because we need to know when we are getting paid and which images they want. I recieved a call back that said they needed to talk to an official at the school who would release payment. This was on June 2nd. It is now the 14th and I have not had a response to any calls or emails. The only payment I have recieved was the original date retainer.


So here is my question for those of you who have cared enough to read this entire essay of a post:

What should I do? I know that losing my cool and getting heated is just a bad way to go about this but it is hard not to become a little insulted when they dont return calls and have been so insanely bad at logistics from the get go.

Should I invoice them yet again? Should I increase the amount? Any advice is appreciated.

my guess is they will pay you. if not you can take them to small claims but that's a hassle and is only good for i think $1500.

i had to file against a customer once and those costs of filing and having the papers served was i think about $200.

they paid the bill the day before we were supposed to appear in court .... but of course that didn't include the $200.

ed rader

[PhotosGuy]

Government entities often can take at least 30 days to process payment. GM once paid in 1 week. Next job they paid in 5 months. ;)

[Dan Lorth]

Roger that everyone, Ill keep them in check but I wont jump the gun on it quite yet. Thanks!

[woodfrogs]

Having worked in the Accounts Payable dept for a local public university, I think I can speak to this. You need to invoice them, they can't process payment without it. Hopefully you have a purchase order/contract number to reference.
Send the bill not only to the person who hired you, but also to the college's Accounts Payable dept. That will help speed the process along. And NYS Prompt Payment Law says 30 days from date invoice rec'd, but they also need to have rec'd the merchandise. Not sure what your state might say for it's govt entities. Good luck!

[airfrogusmc]

I do work for universities and corporations exclusively and its usually at least 30 days on invoices and usually 60-90 for most. After 30 days contact accounts payable and see if they received a check request from the person that hired you and you sent the invoice. Anytime I work for a NEW CLIENT I usually try and get a PO # before I shoot depending on the organization and what I'm doing. But you do need to invoice or you wont get paid.

[Dan Lorth]

I have invoiced. I did at the time of delivery of the low resolution CDs.

[sfaust]

The event organizers then tell us that the images were not what they had hoped for, and that they were expecting shots of every single outfit. Now, understand that they told us that they did not want us to bring the equipment to shoot the outfits backstage as the models came off the runway. They also told us to simply shoot everything the day of the show.

When they stated to 'simply shoot everything', they could have easily thought that included each outfit, since it was discussed prior. Some people don't understand what goes into a shoot, and tend to keep asking for more and more which can oversaturate the photographer. It's your job to make sure you are both aware of what 'shoot everything means', not only from a delivery point of view, but also from a monetary, man hour, and delivery viewpoint. They may have decided to dispense with the backstage studio type images assuming they will just use the on-stage images as well.

My feeling is that they assumed 'everything' included images of each outfit, and thats a reasonable assumption based on the earlier conversations. But when people assume, this is what can happen.

How could they expect 2 people to get shots of every single outfit during the show without a proper lighting setup (their lights were okay, but certainly not fashion week standard) and with the fast paced nature of the show. The show lasted for roughly an hour and there were roughly 200-250 outfits being shown.


That sounds like a typical fashion show. If every outfit walked down the isle, it could have been captured fairly easily by an experienced photographer. Depending the size of the show, there are points along the runway the models stop briefly and pose. The photographer knows the focus points and shoots the models at each point to make sure they get a few variations of each outfit. At the end of the hour, they have 3 or 4 shots of each outfit. In this case, one photographer chould have been shooting the outfits capturing each one. The other could roam around for a journalistic coverage. Between then, everything could have been covered.

Lighting is never very good, so blending flash and ambient is important, as is using a camera with great high ISO performance. If flash wasn't allowed, then fast lenses and high ISO would be used.

It can be very hectic trying to keep up with model after model coming down the runway, but it can be done. You need to have everything prepared, cards pre-formatted and organized logically, spare batteries ready, a second flash (since you can swap flashes faster than swapping the batteries), etc. Its a lot of work, but can and is being done all the time.

This was on June 2nd. It is now the 14th and I have not had a response to any calls or emails. The only payment I have recieved was the original date retainer.

I think you may have missed what the client was assuming they woudl get because of confusion about the assignment. However, if you delivered good images to them, and you covered the event for 8 hours and not 3, my guess is that they will still be pleased with the results and produce payment. Getting 8hrs of coverage for 3hrs cost is an attractive bargain by itself.

Give it more time. It does take time to process an invoice and get a check cut in most business. If you haven't heard from them in 30 days, give them a follow up call and ask for an expected payment date.