Which speedlight for Strobist?

[NSWESP]

Just wondering out of the following list what people prefer to use for Strobist style kits. Please choose only one and if there isnt one listed please post it, But NOT one that needs modifications for vari power.

[Rudi]

None of those. My favourite is the Sunpak 383 Super. I prefer it over other flashes that I have (and I have the 580EX as well).

[Gatorboy]

Vivitar 285HV

[TMR Design]

Why did you omit the Nikon SB-800 and SB-600?

[NSWESP]

Why did you omit the Nikon SB-800 and SB-600?

Im looking at it from a Canon users point of view, I doubt a Canon user would pay $400 on a SB800 which cant be used on Canon when they can buy a 580EX II for example.

[TMR Design]

OK well, an SB-800 goes for about $315 but regardless, the strobist mentality is about using strobes in manual mode. Since you have Nikon flashes listed as well as powerful E-TTL strobes like a 580EX II and didn't state that this was from a Canon shooter's perspective, I just thought it would make sense to have those other strobes.

Why did you also omit the Sunpak and Vivitar flashes which seem to be 2 of the most popular manual and strobist flashes?

[NSWESP]

OK well, an SB-800 goes for about $315 but regardless, the strobist mentality is about using strobes in manual mode. Since you have Nikon flashes listed as well as powerful E-TTL strobes like a 580EX II and didn't state that this was from a Canon shooter's perspective, I just thought it would make sense to have those other strobes.

Why did you also omit the Sunpak and Vivitar flashes which seem to be 2 of the most popular manual and strobist flashes?

I might try change the poll, can i?

[TMR Design]

I might try change the poll, can i?

I don't think you can edit or add options to a poll after the fact. A moderator might be able to do that. If you know what you want to add you can try PM'ing Leo (PacAce) to make the change. :D

[NSWESP]

I don't think you can edit or add options to a poll after the fact. A moderator might be able to do that. If you know what you want to add you can try PM'ing Leo (PacAce) to make the change. :D

Ive reported my thread with the report button to draw a mod in.

[Rudi]

I'm not sure if I'd even word it as a poll - there are just too many good flashes out there - Canon, Nikon, Metz, Sunpak, Vivitar, Sigma, etc, etc. Just my opinion... :)

[TMR Design]

I agree Rudi,

Sometimes polls like this have so many choices for so many different reasons that it's hard to draw any conclusions from the results.

Going back to the strobist mentality. I don't think that a lot of people are really looking at features and performance. Price is one of the biggest factors. No doubt that there are some very good inexpensive flashes but I don't think that people are selecting a Sunpak 383 for $80 because they've done the legwork and have determined that the Sunpak is the best solution. It's more a case of $80 being the perfect solution for their needs and their pocket.

[NSWESP]

I agree Rudi,

Sometimes polls like this have so many choices for so many different reasons that it's hard to draw any conclusions from the results.

Going back to the strobist mentality. I don't think that a lot of people are really looking at features and performance. Price is one of the biggest factors. No doubt that there are some very good inexpensive flashes but I don't think that people are selecting a Sunpak 383 for $80 because they've done the legwork and have determined that the Sunpak is the best solution. It's more a case of $80 being the perfect solution for their needs and their pocket.

I set it as a poll as those above seem to be the most available other then the Vivitars and Sunpaks

[TMR Design]

I understand that. My point is only that I see this more as a question of "which flash, and why?" rather than just a poll question.

The person that is using his 580EX II for a strobist setup more than likely did not purchase the flash for that specific reason. If they did then it was foolish overspending. They either got it for on (or off) camera E-TTL or as part of a larger wireless E-TTL system.

The person buying a Sunpak 383 is more than likely getting it for either a strobist setup, as a supplemental manual flash in a larger setup, or because it's within their budget and plan on using it on camera as a manual flash.

[PhotosGuy]

I use Vivitar 283's. There were always 2 in my bag & they've been there for about 40 years. They never die or let you down, so they can be great for "peace-of-mind" backups when you're using higher powered equipment & they're great for location work. You can still find them on eBay for about $40US.

You can get very precise control with them if you use the Varipower instead of the sensor, but the recycle time at full output in a portrait situation is good only in a very relaxed environment. A remote battery mod would fix that problem, but I've almost never felt the need for it since recycle times are pretty good at ISO 100 f/4-f/5.6 at close range.

Here are a a couple threads that show them.
One on the slide duplicator with the filter hood.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58609

This one shows the Varipower control & the remote cord for the sensor.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66358

You'll need the Wein HSHS (Hot Shoe to Hot Shoe) Safe Sync to bring down the trigger voltage so they're safe for use on the 300D & 350.

Vivitar 283; History & comments (http://www.theothermartintaylor.com/moveabletype/archives/cameras/000156.html)

A Day in the Life of the Vivitar 283 (http://www.uscoles.com/bf283day.html)

A review and appreciation of a great design (http://www.trainweb.org/vermande/5/703.html)

High speed freeze (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=874029)

Will Crockett DVD - digital ON CAMERA FLASH (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=290737)

Vivitar 283 & 285HV (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=475779)

Favorite non-Canon flash units (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120840)

Strobist: On Assignment: Conference Room Quickie (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-assignment-conference-room-quickie.html)
Includes some videos.

[NSWESP]

I use Vivitar 283's. There were always 2 in my bag & they've been there for about 40 years. They never die or let you down, so they can be great for "peace-of-mind" backups when you're using higher powered equipment & they're great for location work. You can still find them on eBay for about $40US.

You can get very precise control with them if you use the Varipower instead of the sensor, but the recycle time at full output in a portrait situation is good only in a very relaxed environment. A remote battery mod would fix that problem, but I've almost never felt the need for it since recycle times are pretty good at ISO 100 f/4-f/5.6 at close range.

Here are a a couple threads that show them.
One on the slide duplicator with the filter hood.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58609

This one shows the Varipower control & the remote cord for the sensor.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66358

You'll need the Wein HSHS (Hot Shoe to Hot Shoe) Safe Sync to bring down the trigger voltage so they're safe for use on the 300D & 350.

Vivitar 283; History & comments (http://www.theothermartintaylor.com/moveabletype/archives/cameras/000156.html)

A Day in the Life of the Vivitar 283 (http://www.uscoles.com/bf283day.html)

A review and appreciation of a great design (http://www.trainweb.org/vermande/5/703.html)

High speed freeze (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=874029)

Will Crockett DVD - digital ON CAMERA FLASH (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=290737)

Vivitar 283 & 285HV (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=475779)

Favorite non-Canon flash units (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120840)

Thanks, Do they come with the Vari Power unit already installed? Also is a Hot Shoe protector needed for use with Pocket Wizards off camera?

[pcunite]

The person that is using his 580EX II for a strobist setup more than likely did not purchase the flash for that specific reason. If they did then it was foolish overspending. They either got it for on (or off) camera E-TTL or as part of a larger wireless E-TTL system.

I use my 5 580EX for strobist work and I don't consider myself foolish... Ok Ok I use ETTL for wedding work but I still like the ease of use of the wonderful 580EX's...

:idea:

Using manual flash indoors the wireless feature of Canon's 580EX line makes for fast setups...

[TMR Design]

I use my 5 580EX for strobist work and I don't consider myself foolish... Ok Ok I use ETTL for wedding work but I still like the ease of use of the wonderful 580EX's...

:idea:

Using manual flash indoors the wireless feature of Canon's 580EX line makes for fast setups...

Understood, but in general, for most people that know they are putting together a kit (a la strobist) and will be shooting in manual mode are on a budget and have to forego all the cool interface and setup features found in something like a 580EX.

I don't consider you fooling, as yo did say you also use E-TTL. Even if you rarely used it, if it is something you need or want then you already have a real reason to go with a Canon Speedlite.

[martinsmith]

Interesting that 580exii is topping the list. The benefits for this flash really shine with E-TTL. I can't see why it's so popular off camera.

I voted for the SB-28. I can get 5 of these for the price of a 580exii.

[pcunite]

Interesting that 580exii is topping the list. The benefits for this flash really shine with E-TTL. I can't see why it's so popular off camera.

I voted for the SB-28. I can get 5 of these for the price of a 580exii.

I have not searched diligently but I think it is the most powerful and recycles very fast... Some days I wish I had Q-Flashes.

[Rudi]

Interesting that 580exii is topping the list.

It's topping the list because online forums are usually populated by people using the latest and greatest, IMO. I don't mean that as a dig at the users or the 580EX II, it's just a fact of life. :)

(Five years ago the 10D would top a poll of favourite Canon DSLR's, seven years ago it would be the D30. If you asked now, it would likely be the 40D. Why? Because it's the current model and it's the most affordable "serious" Canon DSLR. See my point?)

[breal101]

I always assumed strobist meant getting the best bang for the buck. 580EX II strobist? Will Broncolor be the next strobist setup?

[PhotosGuy]

Do they come with the Vari Power unit already installed? No, it's an add-on, but I highly recommend it for manual shooting. Also is a Hot Shoe protector needed for use with Pocket Wizards off camera? I don't think so, but don't know what the PW voltage limits are.

[DDCSD]

I always assumed strobist meant getting the best bang for the buck. 580EX II strobist? Will Broncolor be the next strobist setup?

I'd bet people are just voting for the 580EX II because its the best Canon flash, not because it meets the needs of most "strobist" shooters.

[str8addicted]

i'm looking to add a Sunpak 383 to my budget setup in a couple of weeks

[breal101]

I'd bet people are just voting for the 580EX II because its the best Canon flash, not because it meets the needs of most "strobist" shooters.

Maybe they are confusing light weight portable kit with strobist. Lots of strobists are using strobes they found in yard sales. I voted for the Sunpack 383 which is expensive to some of the minimalist types.

[TMR Design]

My understanding of the strobist concept is that it's fundamentally focused on being able to do high quality, professional looking lighting 'on the cheap' and to demonstrate how inexpensive older, manual flashes suddenly became a powerful tool and could be used to build a kit for little to no money.

[DDCSD]

My understanding of the strobist concept is that it's fundamentally focused on being able to do high quality, professional looking lighting 'on the cheap' and to demonstrate how inexpensive older, manual flashes suddenly became a powerful tool and could be used to build a kit for little to no money.

Exactly, I think of it as "bang for your buck". The 580EX II is great, but I've got 4 540EZ's that I have accumulated and spent about $100 total on. All have cases and one even came with a Magic Lantern Guide. ;) A quick addition of a 1/8" port and I'm all set. Heck, I can even throw one on my camera and use the AF assist lamp if I need to, or use them on my old film Rebel.

[pcunite]

My understanding of the strobist concept is that it's fundamentally focused on being able to do high quality, professional looking lighting 'on the cheap' and to demonstrate how inexpensive older, manual flashes suddenly became a powerful tool and could be used to build a kit for little to no money.

With Joe McNally using gobs of SB-800 I think it means "hey look I don't have to carry all this heavy equipment any more!!!"

For me I don't have to shoot ISO 100 to get clean images. I try for ISO 200 and if I don't get the power I need I go for ISO 400. Of course if your over-powering the sun you still the need the big lights...

P.S.
I am referring to staged shooting...

[TMR Design]

I don't think Joe McNally would be insulted if I said that I don't consider what he does to be in check with the strobist mentality. He can and does go out with a bag full of SB-800's. Cost and budget are not an issue for him and he probably doesn't pay full price or doesn't pay anything for all that Nikon gear. :D

[pcunite]

I don't think Joe McNally would be insulted if I said that I don't consider what he does to be in check with the strobist mentality. He can and does go out with a bag full of SB-800's. Cost and budget are not an issue for him and he probably doesn't pay full price or doesn't pay anything for all that Nikon gear. :D

Very true. I think I detected a slight change at the strobist sight. David's favorite flash is the SB-800 :)

At first it seemed to focus on how to get by... now it is what to buy... and "hey all these guys are really listening to us... lets sell them something!"

So I think the new definition of a strobist is just someone who is using off camera speedlites...

[TMR Design]

That could very well be. I've noticed a similar trend but I think the bulk of 'strobists' are looking for a way to create lighting for next to nothing.

[PhotosGuy]

but I think the bulk of 'strobists' are looking for a way to create lighting for next to nothing. I like "next to nothing"! I picked up a used flash a few months ago to use as a hairlight. It had both battery & AC power. Cost was $5.

[breal101]

$5 flash, now we're talking strobist. How many of those could you get for the price of three 580EX II? Light a city block and have some to spare. :)

[Chosenbydestiny]

Does anyone use Nikon SB-800 flashes for off camera flash? If so, why? I'm looking to see if I can get a more powerful flash than the 580EX II for off camera. Is the SB-800 pretty much the same amount of light? I like the idea of the sunpak 383, but I'm more inclined to having less gear that is more powerful than more gear that is less.

[TMR Design]

I use Nikon SB-800 flashes on and off camera. If power were the only reason to look at an SB-800 then I don't see it as a worthwhile purchase and not an upgrade.

[Chosenbydestiny]

I use Nikon SB-800 flashes on and off camera. If power were the only reason to look at an SB-800 then I don't see it as a worthwhile purchase and not an upgrade.

So for someone who wanted to use a portable flash setup with the most power they can get in less gear, would the 580EX II still be the most viable choice?

[TMR Design]

So for someone who wanted to use a portable flash setup with the most power they can get in less gear, would the 580EX II still be the most viable choice?

Assuming you want to maintain E-TTL but if not then I do believe there are other options that cost less than a 580EX II but I'm not the one with that information. Someone else would have to chime in.

If you wanted to go to Nikon as a manual flash and because of the interface or some other reason then look at the older units. The SB-80DX is excellent and almost identical to an SB-800.

[Chosenbydestiny]

Assuming you want to maintain E-TTL but if not then I do believe there are other options that cost less than a 580EX II but I'm not the one with that information. Someone else would have to chime in.

If you wanted to go to Nikon as a manual flash and because of the interface or some other reason then look at the older units. The SB-80DX is excellent and almost identical to an SB-800.

Yes, it would all be manual flash... I just wanted the best bulb for the buck.

[TMR Design]

Yes, it would all be manual flash... I just wanted the best bulb for the buck.

Check KEH or ebay for a used SB-80DX. Google some reviews. I believe Thom Hogan has a review of the 80DX and many of the other popular older models, and for what it's worth, Ken rockwell also has a review.

[Chosenbydestiny]

Check KEH or ebay for a used SB-80DX. Google some reviews. I believe Thom Hogan has a review of the 80DX and many of the other popular older models, and for what it's worth, Ken rockwell also has a review.

Hmm, I'll check into that. Thanks =]

[Rudi]

The Sunpak 383 is as powerful as the 580EX and only $80! So is the Vivitar 285HV. If all you want is manual flash for off-camera use, there is no need to spend hundreds of dollars on a flash. There are plenty of cheaper options available.

[TMR Design]

I agree Rudi. Something like the SB-80DX can be had for around $100 and the only reason why I would recommend it is because of the interface and display.

[Rudi]

Yeah, they can be had reasonably cheap I guess. They were a lot cheaper before Strobist became popular...

[TMR Design]

Sure. There's a huge demand for older flash units that can be used manually. You can build a pretty serious kit for a few hundred dollars.

[Chosenbydestiny]

Yeah, I just got home from digging around locally and all of the shops were sold out of sunpak 383! I guess it's better to order it online then...

[cdifoto]

Vivitar 283/285, Sunpak 383. Dirt cheap new, dirter cheaper eBay.

[AmpedPhoto]

my vote is the SB-800s or we just got a new 580 and thrilled it has a sync port

[azpix]

the sunpack 383 are great. I dont even use my 580 except for the rare occasion I throw it on the camera.

[Rudi]

the sunpack 383 are great. I dont even use my 580 except for the rare occasion I throw it on the camera.

Same here! I used to have two 580EX and some older 420EX flashes, have now kept only the one 580EX for on-camera E-TTL use. The rest are Sunpak 383 Supers! :)

[Rrdstarr]

Okay, I think I am a bit of a dumb-@ss......how do I hook my old flashes to my Rebel XTi with the 580 EX II on top? What setting does the 580 have to be in to fire the old flashes? I couldn't find anything in the 580's manual aboot hooking flashes to it?:oops:

[Jim G]

Okay, I think I am a bit of a dumb-@ss......how do I hook my old flashes to my Rebel XTi with the 580 EX II on top? What setting does the 580 have to be in to fire the old flashes? I couldn't find anything in the 580's manual aboot hooking flashes to it?:oops:

You can't use a 580 to fire a Sunpak or Vivitar directly; through using something like an optical trigger you could.

[PhotosGuy]

something like an optical trigger you could. Look at post #10:
Simple "every-day-emergency" location lighting (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66358)

[bimmeracer3]

sunpaks and sb26's are going fast. whats next? 430ez?

[FlashZebra]

sunpaks and sb26's are going fast. whats next? 430ez?
The Canon 420EZ and 430EZ would make very annoying off camera flash units.

The built in standby mode cannot be disabled requiring you to return to the flash about every 90 seconds.

The standby mode in the 540EZ can be turned off.

Enjoy! Lon

[doidinho]

580 EXII then take your pick.

[Rudi]

580 EXII then take your pick.

That's an expensive flash for Strobist-style manual off-camera flash photography!

[doidinho]

That's an expensive flash for Strobist-style manual off-camera flash photography!

But you get the ETTL for on camera (when you want it).. My point was that ETTL has it's place and is nice, but after you have one flash w/ it, it doesn't matter as much for the second or third flash. Some units only have zoom, some have more light output levels, but the 580 has it all. Odds are you won't need to zoom all the way out on both flash units and that you will probally have some sort of lighting ration going on, so you will likley be able to get the lighting you want w/ a 580 and any of the other mentioned flashes.

[Rudi]

Fair enough! I kept one 580EX for just that reason, as I replaced all my other hot shoe flashes with cheaper alternatives. The best part was that selling off my other 580EX's paid for the rest of the gear and more! :)

[pcunite]

That's an expensive flash for Strobist-style manual off-camera flash photography!

It is also very powerful and recycles fast!!!

[Rudi]

It is also very powerful and recycles fast!!!

The Sunpak 383 and Vivitar 285HV are just as powerful, it's just that the Sunpak does not zoom and the Vivitar zooms manually. At half-power, the Sunpak recycles in around two seconds, same as the 430EX at full power. And guess what? At half-power the Sunpak is as powerful as the 430EX at full power!

Yes, you give up a little with the Sunpak or Vivitar, but for off-camera Strobist use, not as much as some might think!

[cvt01]

My understanding of the strobist concept is that it's fundamentally focused on being able to do high quality, professional looking lighting 'on the cheap' and to demonstrate how inexpensive older, manual flashes suddenly became a powerful tool and could be used to build a kit for little to no money.

TMR, you've got this totally wrong, Dave used to have a huge inventory on SB-24, 26 and 28s and he wanted to drive up the prices before selling it off on the ebay :D:D:D The prices of those things doubled since he started the strobist blog :D.

On a serious note I think the ideal strobist type setup for canon is
1) AB400 (for studio work as main light, great with light modifiers), $230
2) 580EX II (fill/backlight in studio, E-TTL if ever needed, outdoor off camera flash), $380
3) vivitar 285 (fill/backlight, cheap). $90

[bimmeracer3]

I cannot believe sunpaks have jumped in price so much. Would the sb-24 be the best deal now?

[The Fox]

Sunpak 383 or 430EX. I like the sunpak because of the sync port, and the 430 for power and control.
Nick

[Rudi]

I cannot believe sunpaks have jumped in price so much. Would the sb-24 be the best deal now?

Nope. Used SB-24's go for over $100 on eBay now...

[Rudi]

Sunpak 383 or 430EX. I like the sunpak because of the sync port, and the 430 for power and control.
Nick

The Sunpak 383 is as powerful as the 580EX, it just doesn't have the zoom feature.

[Hermes]

The Sunpak 383 is as powerful as the 580EX, it just doesn't have the zoom feature.

Power is a very subjective thing - the inability to zoom the head to get the coverage you need will mean that a lot of the Sunpaks' power will be wasted for many applications.

[Rudi]

Power is a very subjective thing - the inability to zoom the head to get the coverage you need will mean that a lot of the Sunpaks' power will be wasted for many applications.

Sure! But a silver snoot will get a lot of that back...

[Hermes]

Sure! But a silver snoot will get a lot of that back...

Depends... I like using a small silver reflective umbrella to get nice crisp lighting. I don't think I could fill it with the Sunpaks without a lot of light spilling over the edges. Same goes for diffusion panels and bouncing off small areas.

[Rudi]

Depends... I like using a small silver reflective umbrella to get nice crisp lighting. I don't think I could fill it with the Sunpaks without a lot of light spilling over the edges. Same goes for diffusion panels and bouncing off small areas.

Have you tried it? The Sunpaks actually have a nice, controlled beam at somewhat wider than 35mm coverage. I have to move a 43" umbrella all the way out to almost cover it, it would not be hard to move the light closer to a small silver umbrella to prevent spill.

[splitslim]

I have a 580EX and a bunch of 540EZ's, love all of them!

[NSWESP]

I have a 580EX and a bunch of 540EZ's, love all of them!

How do you tigger the 540EZs? And how many do you have?

[DDCSD]

How do you tigger the 540EZs? And how many do you have?

I usually add sync ports to mine, or use a hotshoe adapter. Trigger them either optically or with my Skyports.

[mindchatter]

I have a 430ex and the Digital Concepts will arrive at my door on Monday... I sure hope I'll like it!