Tripod Leveling Bases

[Scottes]

I was about to place an order with B&H so I was thinking about adding the Manfrotto 3416 / Bogen 338 leveling base. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=146230&is=REG)

Does anyone use something like this, or the Bogen Leveling Column? Is this worthwhile for panos, or should I look at spending the money elsewhere? I've currently got the Bogen 3021PRO tripod, and it can be a bit of a pain to level - though I haven't had many problems getting it to within 1/2-degree. And since the leveling base says that it can get to within 1/2-degree I'm not so sure it's worth it... But I'd like to hear comments from anyone who's used a leveling base or column.

[defordphoto]

For panos I would consider this a necessity.

[Belmondo]

Scott:
Just think, if you stack two or three of those things on top of each other, you can make adjustments into the fourth dimension. That would be so cool.

It could be useful, but I don't see it being much more effective than a good tripod with spirit levels built in. After all, three legs make a tripod infinitely adjustable in both horizontal axes.

[Scottes]

RFM, have you used one? I agree that it seems like it would be a necessity, but as I said it's good for 1/2-degree accuracy and I haven't had much problem getting my tripod that close. Granted, it's a pain to do, but it can be done. My tripod and head have spirit levels and I have a Hama hot-shoe level. But it seems that this thing would make life much easier. I'm definitely leaning towards it...


Tom, I've tried photographing the 4th dimension but everything comes up with dotted outlines, so it just looks weird. I have to admit that I haven't tried film though.... Hmmm....

[aam1234]

If you really want to capture the fourth dimension then there is an agency in Russia that can help you with that. But you need a good IS lens as there will be a lot of vibration out there :D

[DocFrankenstein]

Fourth dimension? Is that the IR underwear thing you're talking about?

[defordphoto]

Scott: Nope. Never used one. I don't shoot precise panos or VRs. However, if I did, I'd definitely snag one of those puppies.

[aam1234]

Fourth dimension? Is that the IR underwear thing you're talking about?

Ha ha, not quite.

[mjordan]

I do a good number of multi image panoramas and I've thought about something like this as well. I was shooting a 8 or so shot pano of the a couple of weeks ago and I got the ball head nice and level using the bubble levels on it... the problem was that my legs were different lengths because I was on a hill and when I swung the ball head it did a up and over movement. I never did get the legs so the base that the ballhead was screwed into was level, so I ended up doing a free hand pano but not with as many images.

I've tried to think of ways to level the legs, but the only way I can think of is to put a level on the leg platform, level the legs and then attached the ballhead, hoping it doesn't come un level. I've seen these self leveling tripods and have thought about it, but they are pretty spendy. So if you can afford one and would use it enough to make it worth while, I think Jim is right.

Mike

[CyberDyneSystems]

Scott,. I took a look at the bogen units.. granted my wants/needs are different entirley.. but I was not happy with;

A: The time it would take to set it up.
B: the limited amount of adjustment the head has...

Again.. I want one solely for fast precise leveling of a gimble mount for large lenses... so this may not be important to you.

But, haveing looked at this for waaaaay tooo much time now.. I have seen only one solution that looks like something fast and gives more than a few degrees of adjustment and that is the tripod specific Gitzo leveling column.

It differs dramtically from Manfrotto's so called "leveling column" in that the Manfortto is simply a column with the same type of head you link to above attached to the top of it.

With the Gitzo on the other hand, the whole coloumn sits inside the leveling "bowl" for lack of a better word.. allowing for very fast adjustment,. and a larger range of motion.

[aam1234]

Sorry to go silly on you guys, it just happend that BBC published an article about it to day. You can see it here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4131363.stm). Look at the very last parapgraph (Doc this is what I was talking about, not the IR thing :D )

[Scottes]

Mjordan, CDS - thanks. This was the inspiration I needed. (RFM, I still agree with you, just wanted experience.)

Since I'm not worried so much about speed for set-up time this should do. For a gimbal-head I'd want the speed of a good leveling column, but for panos I'd want the minute adjustability of the base's thumbscrews. Besides, have you ever tried to perfectly level a tripod? The base has got to be faster....

Thanks folks.

[Belmondo]

Scott:

All joking aside (is that possible?), let us know how you like it after you get it. I'm interested to hear if it introduces any additional flex, especially with larger lenses.

Thos.

[Scottes]

Tom, did you read the specs? 1.6" tall and 1.3 pounds, accepts cameras up to 33 lb. It's a little beast for what it does.

However, I really don't think this is the right device for large lenses and/or gimbal mounts. Check CDS's comments on that - you want a leveling column.

[iwatkins]

Scott:

Of course, if you are going to spend a lot of time getting it totally level, you might want to consider your camera/lens positioning so that your systems nodal point is directly over the rotational axis.

Oopps, did I throw a spanner in the works. ;)

Cheers

Ian

[BearSummer]

Hi Scottes,

I have the 338 levelling head and it makes creating multi shot panoramas far easier as the tripod head above can rotate on a levelled base. This stops the rise and fall that can ruin a good panorama. The 338 is simple and sturdy, tho it does take a while to get the thumb screws to turn easily (and lots of ptfe spray).

By the way its not the nodal point its the entry pupil that needs to be centered on the axis of rotation, but its only really important if your visible foreground is close to the camera. This seems to be a common mistake (I was calling it the nodal point for ages)

best regards

BearSummer

[iwatkins]

BearSummer,

Well, I still call it the nodal point, but I'm sure you are right and I simply have the names mixed up (I have problems remembering my own name sometimes ;)).

Of course, what I mean is that you set the camera up so that you have no parallax problems with close in objects during the rotation of the camera.

Cheers

Ian

[Scottes]

I've got a pano head on order but I tried a few long-range panos (to avoid the parallax issues) and I found it a bit of a pain to level the tripod. One pano I did was 12 images wide - in landscape because I was stupid at the time - and the lack of a good level base made that difficult. So hopefully the 338 will help - hopefully it will help a lot, really.

[DocFrankenstein]

An idea:

I've just seen a guy with... forgot the name. With a tripod that's used in maps creation, engineering planning... etc...

Basically the device to measure the difference in height at point A to point B. It's very sturdy. It's heavy. It has a leveling base on top with bubbles that are actually reliable.

For 50-70 bucks you can get a decent one... The only question is mounting the camera on it...

Just something to consider.

BTW: I was kidding about the 4th dimension. ;) :)

[Jon]

Surveyors' tripods, for transits and high precision DGPS receivers and the like. Talk about wierd threadings - maybe 1/2" x 20, 5/8" x 11 (closest to standard), or (my favourite) 3-1/2" x 8. Not all that cheap, and I guarantee they're going to be heavy. They're quite similar in construction to the ones traditionally used with view cameras.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Jon I've got a classic old solid wood and brass transit level tripod...

It weighs about a billion pounds.. and as you say.. it has odd threads.. in this case all I have is the plate thread.. about 4"-5" in diameter!!!

Anyway.. it makes a pretty plant stand. :)

[AJSJones]

Really Right Stuff makes a "panning clamp" ( http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/pano/index.html ) which goes on top of your ballhead to replace the clamp. It has a bubble level built-in. No fussing around trying to level the tripod legs, level the ballhead, then pan with the clamp. With the MPR-CLII you can slide the camera/lens combo to get to the "no-parallax" position (nodal point/exit pupil, whatever) and read it off the scale for each focal length for future quick setup. Should make panos easier...

Andy

[Scottes]

Really Right Stuff makes a "panning clamp" ( http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/pano/index.html ) which goes on top of your ballhead to replace the clamp.
I have a few issues with this...
...it doesn't take the nodal point/exit pupil into account.
...it has no provisions for portrait mode.
...it is exorbitantly expense, as expected from RRS.

For panning it looks good, but not so much for panoramics.

[CyberDyneSystems]

It can take the Nodal point into account actually.

It has one of the longest "Arca" slots around.. and they expect you to use it with an even longer Arca plate.. which would allow all the front to back adjustment needed to get the Nodal point in the right place.

As for Portrait mode.. (you didn't scroll did you... ) .. they ARE RRS after all,. and want you to spend a lot more and buy one of there slick flip flop portrait L brackets! :rolleyes:

However.. you may Notice that RRS recomends the afore entioned Gitzo leveling system as the only alternative! :)

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/tutorials/on_the_level/index.html

That of clourse is a far more costly option though :(

[pcasciola]

Gitzo recently came out with "leveling" versions of their 1227 and 1228 tripods which can be adjusted up to 12 degrees:

http://www.gitzo.com/products/metric/tripods/leveling/rightscreen.php3

Of course they both carry the high Gitzo price tags, well over $600 at B&H.

[AJSJones]

I have a few issues with this...
...it doesn't take the nodal point/exit pupil into account.
...it has no provisions for portrait mode.
...it is exorbitantly expense, as expected from RRS.

For panning it looks good, but not so much for panoramics.

I think the original question was about leveling if your tripod doesn't have a level or if it's too much of a pain to level the legs. This clamp proivdes a quick set up for panning horizontally no matter what it's attached to so it is a useful piece of hardware. The camera operator is still accountable for finding the best position for the exit pupil. With the length of the clamp and a long plate you can accommodate some decent focal length ranges. Dedicated hardware for portrait mode panos ain't cheap - unfortunately, neither are L-brackets - I'd love for them to be cheaper, but I bought one because of its versatility - including portrait mode panos. The kinds of things RRS and Kirk et al sell are not large markets but they are usually well made and, for me, represent a reasonable price to value ratio. YMMV

Andy

[CyberDyneSystems]

Phil,

This is very similar to, if not the same thing as there Leveling column for use with there better tripods including mountaineer, Studex etc...

It is pricey :shock: but the design is superb to work with.

Christ! I have to stop looking at RRS, Kirk, Gitzo and Wimberleys websites!
I'm about to blow a grand easy on camera supports and clamps!!!!!!!! :shock: