**BEST IMAGE OF THE YEAR CONTEST** Voting procedure discussion

[timmyquest]

My inital plan was to have people email/pm their votes, i'd keep tally via excel. At the end i would be able to have a graph of how many votes everyone got and then obviously a winner.

With 33 images, i'm admitingly finding it hard to chose just one image. So i'm thinking the multiple choice gig will work. What i want to know from you guys is if you have any ideas and what you would vote for to put in place as our voting system (then we can take another vote on if you like the results of that vote if you'd like :D )

So, lets hear 'em. I'd like to keep this as orginized as possible.

[Moppie]

I would like to only pick 1, but I can handle upto 3.
Beyond that Ill just want to vote for all of them :D

[aam1234]

I think 30-50 photos is a bit too little to choose a top 10 from, so I'd suggest top 5. As for the voting method, I think it's easier for you and us if we just vote here, just like the contest we run in this forum (hmm, don't think that's original enough...but I guess it works).

good luck.

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

Each member get three picks, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
1st is 3 points, 2nd is 2 points, 3rd is 1 point.
Highest total points wins.

I'm not sure about posting the scores; secret ballot or maybe sending each contributor their total?

Me, I would want to know for learning purposes.

[Scottes]

I agree with Jazz for points, and aam1234 for top 5 not top 10.

Too simplify points, perhaps 3 choices @ 1 point per choice, but I'd rather see Jazz's suggestion.

[timmyquest]

I agree with Jazz for points, and aam1234 for top 5 not top 10.

Too simplify points, perhaps 3 choices @ 1 point per choice, but I'd rather see Jazz's suggestion.

I like jazz's idea as well

[aam1234]

Yeah, Jazz's idea is very cool. As a matter of fact, that's what they do in the other contest I participate in (but with 5 votes).

[Mills]

Here is another vote for Jazz's suggestion. I like it.

[kawter2]

I agree with JAZZ!

[Jon]

I'd go with JAZZ' method too.

OK, so how does the voting on the method of voting work?

;{)#

[aam1234]

OK, so how does the voting on the method of voting work?

Lots of more work for him...he asked for it :lol:

[merrrrjig]

Im with JAZZ's Idea

[Sharon P Johnson]

I also agree with JAZZ.

[Sharon P Johnson]

Question: Would it help to have categories? For example, people, nature, buildings.

What do you think?

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

The original concept was the one (or one of) picture that made you go WOW.

Open categories, one against all, may the best WOW win.

Me, I like the concept.

[Scottes]

I agree with Jazz AGAIN!

[kawter2]

I agree with Jazz AGAIN!


Ditto!...,,

[Scottes]

Jazz, you have an opportunity here to jump off a bridge and a bunch of us will jump, too....

[Moppie]

Im waiting on the bridge, ready to jump......

[timmyquest]

Wait, i found a flaw. Wasnt Jazz Will Smiths annoying friend in the Fresh Prince of Belair?

[Steven M. Anthony]

Stick to your guns, TQ--how can there be more that one "best of the best?"

[timmyquest]

Stick to your guns, TQ--how can there be more that one "best of the best?"

Well, there wont be. Considering only one person will be in first.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Well, there wont be. Considering only one person will be in first.

But how can anyone vote for more than one best of the best? By definition people should be allowed only one vote for one photo. Even then, you might end up with a tie for the most votes... so you could end up with more than one best picture...

[timmyquest]

But how can anyone vote for more than one best of the best? By definition people should be allowed only one vote for one photo. Even then, you might end up with a tie for the most votes... so you could end up with more than one best picture...


Sometimes you actually do make me laugh, which is funny in its self because i'm certain you arnt trying.

[IndyJeff]

Steven if your not going to enter the contest why do you continue to criticize how it is run?

Start your own contest

[Steven M. Anthony]

Steven if your not going to enter the contest why do you continue to criticize how it is run?

Start your own contest

Criticize how it's run?! I'm encouraging TQ to stick to his original plan. His original voting idea was more true to the spirit of his contest than the most recent, multi-vote system.

I'm not sure why TQ finds that encouragement funny...

As I told you and TQ before. I'm not against TQ's contest. I just don't want to participate in it as originally designed. But that doesn't mean I want TQ's contest to fail. I really hope--for the fun of those involved--that his contest is a great success.

[tommykjensen]

But that doesn't mean I want TQ's contest to fail. I really hope--for the fun of those involved--that his contest is a great success.

Well You sure fooled me there.....

[timmyquest]

Never mind...

[Scottes]

Stick to your guns, TQ--how can there be more that one "best of the best?"

Give it up.

Why aren't you on dpreview? They like your kind over there.

[poke]

So what are we voting for again... I forgot

[Steven M. Anthony]

Give it up.

Why aren't you on dpreview? They like your kind over there.

Don't they like people who encourage others here, too?

[Scottes]

Condescension and dissension are not very encouraging.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Condescension and dissension are not very encouraging.

Agreed. But my comments were neither condescending nor dissenting. I suppose if you wanted to read them that way you could make yourself believe that was how they were intended. But that would be you reading into them what wasn't put there by me.

[Danny Boy]

Okay all, let's get back to the subject at hand. The contest. Timmy is trying to put this good idea in motion and I believe we've changed the subject. Are we on track as to how the contest is to be performed? I believe Jazz had some great ideas and the concept Timmy is putting together is a good one.

Timmy, is it defined as to how the contest is to be run or do you still need more feedback? What are the timelines for this contest? A new folder for this subject? Just some questions to get this thing back in motion.

Dan

[timmyquest]

Timmy, is it defined as to how the contest is to be run or do you still need more feedback? What are the timelines for this contest? A new folder for this subject? Just some questions to get this thing back in motion.

Dan

I guess my sig isnt big or bright enough :D

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

I'd only jump off the bridge for the photo op:D

Could be interesting if all "the followers" jumped at the same time and took photos of each other:evil:

Rock an Roll TQ, stay on track. Pick the scoring method that suites your needs and we'll work with it.

Aggregate voting will never stop an outstanding photo from winning, but will give a better indication of pictures that are too close to tell.

As a note to that; should there be a tie, the picture with the most first place votes would win, or the most second place votes should they have first place tied.

Or, for more fun and contraversy: Run them off against each other:twisted:

[timmyquest]

Where would you guys like to keep talley of these votes.

I never liked the public display of voting as i think it sways peoples opinions. I know i've found myself changing votes because someone elses vote made me think more about the photo. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not.

[aam1234]

Agree with you TQ, it's better if we don't see other people's votes.

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

Private preferred, with the option of seeing the final score for my submission. Somehow.

This could be an spreadsheet and e-mail hell for the voting. Wouldn't take too much to design the spreadsheet, it's maintaining it that could be labour intensive to start. Picture getting 5 or 600 voting submissions!!!

I have a design for the spreadsheet (calculations included) if you want any ideas, the transcribing of the incoming e-mail or PM that is the long part.

[timmyquest]

Private preferred, with the option of seeing the final score for my submission. Somehow.

This could be an spreadsheet and e-mail hell for the voting. Wouldn't take too much to design the spreadsheet, it's maintaining it that could be labour intensive to start. Picture getting 5 or 600 voting submissions!!!

I have a design for the spreadsheet (calculations included) if you want any ideas, the transcribing of the incoming e-mail or PM that is the long part.

I would create a sep. email for the voting.

I can then enter the information into the spreadsheet, make graphs...the works.

All in favor dont say a thing!

[cmM]

My opinion: 1 image, and only one. so I say POLL !

[timmyquest]

My opinion: 1 image, and only one. so I say POLL !

40+ images, polls allow for 10 :confused:

[cmM]

40+ images, polls allow for 10 :confused:Pekka? We need you to tweak the software a little :cool: :p ;) j/k

I don't know.... in this case, well, I still say pick just one

[ron chappel]

LOL
I also think everyone should pick three best,scored at 3-2-1
But it would be nice for everyone to see what they scored,even if they only got 1 point

I go with the no categories idea-everything in one class!

Hey...we can allways have more comps later using other methods.But for now i vote we stick with the simple 'WOW' concept,it's a good one.

[Steven M. Anthony]

even with polls limited at 10 options, you could likely cover all entries in 2 rounds of polls. First round is random groups of 10 images per poll (maybe fewer to balance the number in each first-round poll). The winners of each first-round poll move on to the next (final) round.

[ilya]

I think the mods pick a few "goldenmembers" and as a group of folks who are objective and know a good pic narrow these down to 10 finalists and then you post a poll for the 10. Complete democracy is not a great jury in this case. It tends to become a contest of whose picture is most technically proficient, sharp and contrasty, and that's wrong because that is only one aspect of a good photograph.

[timmyquest]

I think the mods pick a few "goldenmembers" and as a group of folks who are objective and know a good pic narrow these down to 10 finalists and then you post a poll for the 10. Complete democracy is not a great jury in this case. It tends to become a contest of whose picture is most technically proficient, sharp and contrasty, and that's wrong because that is only one aspect of a good photograph.


Well, for starters, and no offense to "the mods" but this isn't exactly "the mods" contest.

They didnt come up with it and they sure as heck havnt spent the time at midnight every night downloading, renaming, uploading, renaming, and updating the 40 photos (3 more in my inbox tonight). But...i know they know this :D :o

Second, Steven has already brought forward the idea of a "panel". I'm against that entirely. To assume that the population of this board is too stupid to realize that there is more to a photograph then the apereance is assinine, aside from that...the apereance is very important after all is it not?

[Steven M. Anthony]

I think the mods pick a few "goldenmembers" and as a group of folks who are objective and know a good pic narrow these down to 10 finalists and then you post a poll for the 10. Complete democracy is not a great jury in this case. It tends to become a contest of whose picture is most technically proficient, sharp and contrasty, and that's wrong because that is only one aspect of a good photograph. [Text deleted by moderator. B]

I am interested to see the photos that have been submitted and how the voting is handled, as well as how the votes fall. I don't know that I can, in good faith, vote for a photo based solely on the "wow" factor it posesses. Like you, that just seems to be such a narrow aspect on which to judge a photo. Consider the work of photogs like HC-B, or Andre Kertesz--I rarely think of their work as having the "wow" factor...

[timmyquest]

Congrats steven, your the first member of this message board that i've decided to put on my ignore list.

[Penguin_101_1]

Why don't we break them up into groups of 10 (by type, landscape, ect.) have 3 diffrent threads and then take the winners and make them into 1 post? We could also make 3 posts, you choose 1, vote, then do a null vote on the other 2. You can then find the one with the most votes and they are the winner.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Well, for starters, and no offense to "the mods" but this isn't exactly "the mods" contest.

They didnt come up with it and they sure as heck havnt spent the time at midnight every night downloading, renaming, uploading, renaming, and updating the 40 photos (3 more in my inbox tonight). But...i know they know this :D :o

Second, Steven has already brought forward the idea of a "panel". I'm against that entirely. To assume that the population of this board is too stupid to realize that there is more to a photograph then the apereance is assinine, aside from that...the apereance is very important after all is it not?

Where does ilya suggest that the "population of this board is too stupid to realize that there is more to a photograph then [sic] the apereance [sic]?"

[Scottes]

Where does Timmyquest suggest that Ilya said this?

Well, that's rhetorical, really. It's clear to me.

[Sharon P Johnson]

Why don't we break them up into groups of 10 (by type, landscape, ect.) have 3 diffrent threads and then take the winners and make them into 1 post? We could also make 3 posts, you choose 1, vote, then do a null vote on the other 2. You can then find the one with the most votes and they are the winner.


I really think the category grouping would be useful for those who focus on one genre. It could help provide useful information to the photographer about their technique and receptiveness of their image. An unofficial critique by popularity.

Just a thought.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Where does Timmyquest suggest that Ilya said this?

Well, that's rhetorical, really. It's clear to me.

TQ suggests this with his comment regarding panels. Ilya suggested a form of panel be used as a first-round elimination. TQ said he is against panels. His next sentence starts with "To assume that the population of this board is too stupid to realize that there is more to a photograph then [sic] the apereance [sic] is assinine [sic]..." Given the structure of his comment, it is clear that TQ believes the quoted statement to be an assumed implication by anyone suggesting a form panel be used in his contest.

As a person who suggested a panel be used to judge TQ's contest, I can tell you that I, in no way, assume anyone on this board to be too stupid to realize that there is more to a photo than its appearance. I don't think ilya was suggesting people here were too stupid to realize that, either.

[timmyquest]

Why don't we break them up into groups of 10 (by type, landscape, ect.) have 3 diffrent threads and then take the winners and make them into 1 post? We could also make 3 posts, you choose 1, vote, then do a null vote on the other 2. You can then find the one with the most votes and they are the winner.

Thats not such a bad idea i guess, may be a pain in the rear but it's not a bad idea.

[ilya]

timmy, i know what you went through, i hosted two or three of contests on this board with about 40 photos a while back and its a thankless task especially dealing with people who can't read or follow directions.

but that doesn't give you the right to give me flak and make silly insinuations. frankly i didn't read the back and forth that preceded so i don't know this was proposed. all i know is that an elimination works very well elsewhere. as far as logistics, would it make you feel better if I said "TQ" and the mods?

anyway i stick by my opinion, but TRUST ME I don't care what you do. there are so many great shots in this lot, the talent of the board leaped from just a year ago that's what counts.

[MattSG]

I would have sent one of mine in if there was award for most controversy (the 'suspension' pictures).

...If I had a suggestion I'd randomly put the pics in groups of 5 into 8 threads with polls, a little time consuming....then do a run off on a poll of the winners from each.

[timmyquest]

timmy, i know what you went through, i hosted two or three of contests on this board with about 40 photos a while back and its a thankless task especially dealing with people who can't read or follow directions.

but that doesn't give you the right to give me flak and make silly insinuations. frankly i didn't read the back and forth that preceded so i don't know this was proposed. all i know is that an elimination works very well elsewhere. as far as logistics, would it make you feel better if I said "TQ" and the mods?

anyway i stick by my opinion, but TRUST ME I don't care what you do. there are so many great shots in this lot, the talent of the board leaped from just a year ago that's what counts.

I'm about an inch from saying F-it!

Jesus christ :evil:

I dont know what the hell your talking about. I cant make you all happy.

The idea of handing the control over this contest over to the mods to do somthing i dont want to do sounds like a horrid idea to me and i'm no tthe only one who does not like htat idea.

I'm sorry you cant handle that.

You guys can post all you want in this thread, i'm ignoring it from now on.

[timmyquest]

especially dealing with people who can't read or follow directions.


Oh yeah, this is another example of your belittleing of this community, i havnt had any problems.

[Scottes]

Timmy if you ask for people's opinions you'll find that everyone has one, and most of them are different, and that you can't please everyone.

So don't even try. You started this, so you finish it. Pick the way you want and go for it.


Next time don't ask for opinions. Just do what you want. You'll find that things go much smoother for you. And you'll find that many people are PO'd at you, but it's a LOT easier to ignore that drivel than this drivel, and no matter what you do you'll find that people are PO'd at you so why go through the BS of asking for opinions in the first place?

Design by committee sucks.
It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.

[timmyquest]

Timmy if you ask for people's opinions you'll find that everyone has one, and most of them are different, and that you can't please everyone.

So don't even try. You started this, so you finish it. Pick the way you want and go for it.


Next time don't ask for opinions. Just do what you want. You'll find that things go much smoother for you. And you'll find that many people are PO'd at you, but it's a LOT easier to ignore that drivel than this drivel, and no matter what you do you'll find that people are PO'd at you so why go through the BS of asking for opinions in the first place?

Design by committee sucks.
It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Here is what we're doing:

We are going to have several threads with polls.

There will be say, two a week. The top 3 photos out of 10 will be selected for the next "round" We will continue to do this until there are 10 photos left.

Bottom line.

There are too many good photos here to get wrapped up in politics.

[Mills]

Sounds Good!

[Steven M. Anthony]

"You guys can post all you want in this thread, i'm ignoring it from now on."

That's the spirit, TQ!

[timmyquest]

This thread is about to be locked, but if you have any suggestions please PM them to me.

*TO THE MODS*

I sure wouldnt be hurt if you deleted any posts after this one :rolleyes:

[ilya]

i don't belittle the community i thought i was showing sympathy for your work. there are always a few (not manyl) that makes hosting hard is the back and forth to make sure people follow the whatever rules there are. to upload photos takes not time at all. ymmv

but whatever, you are just a bit too prancy here, and i'm out of this noise.

again, i don't care what you do to judge because its just not important, you did a good thing in taking initiative, and again the quality of the photos is what will make this contest a success.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Timmy if you ask for people's opinions you'll find that everyone has one, and most of them are different, and that you can't please everyone.

So don't even try. You started this, so you finish it. Pick the way you want and go for it.


Next time don't ask for opinions. Just do what you want. You'll find that things go much smoother for you. And you'll find that many people are PO'd at you, but it's a LOT easier to ignore that drivel than this drivel, and no matter what you do you'll find that people are PO'd at you so why go through the BS of asking for opinions in the first place?

Design by committee sucks.
It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Asking for opinions is a great thing to do--as long as you really want them. If you have no intention of incorporating anyone else's opinion, then don't ask for them. But if you DO want them, you need to respectfully acknowledge ALL suggestions you get--not just the ones you like. Flippant and nasty responses to requested suggestions breeds the kind of "politics" TQ is fed up with...

[Scottes]

Flippant and nasty responses to requested suggestions breeds the kind of "politics" TQ is fed up with...
Not to mention the flippant way some of the "suggestions" were made!

[cmM]

<--- looking up "flippant" in the dictionary :rolleyes: .... oooohhh

This forum is great for enriching the vocabulary of poor immigrants like me :-P

I'm bokeh...

[Steven M. Anthony]

Not to mention the flippant way some of the "suggestions" were made!
I don't remember seeing ANY flippant suggestions.

[Scottes]

I don't remember seeing ANY flippant suggestions.
That's because there weren't any.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Not to mention the flippant way some of the "suggestions" were made!

Then you've managed to lose me as to why you said the above... :)

[defordphoto]

ROFLMAO! :lol:

[Pekka]

This topic is now locked. Timmy has made his rules and how the vote shall be, he has the final say Please respect that and keep submitting those photos.

Timmyquest:
----------------------------------

Here is what we're doing:

We are going to have several threads with polls.

There will be say, two a week. The top 3 photos out of 10 will be selected for the next "round" We will continue to do this until there are 10 photos left.

Bottom line.

----------------------------------