Slow shutter concert photography.

[funk1196]

I've done point and shoot photos at concerts, and frankly, i'm disgusted wtih the results.

So i'm taking my XSI with kit lens (till my 10-22, and 50mm 1.8 get here).

The best concert photography that i see is with slow shutters (and i think a flash?) ... usually the lead singer (or at least his face) will be crystal clear, with all the ambient lights in a deliberate blur, whether it be a drag from left to right, or turning the lens for a radial blur.

Does anyone have any tips for these kind of photos?

Still the highest iso, and largest aperture possible? What shutter speed? 1/60? 1/100?

If i dont make it to the front of the state (which i often don't), but still want to use my flash, is there a way that i can have the camera shutter be slightly behind the flash, so that it waits for the flash to reach the stage to open up the shutter?

I would, in some cases, ratehr the ambient lights be overpowering over the band members, as long as things arent blown out or blurry.

[Paul Tinworth]

The experienced lot can correct me on this as I've yet to try it, but I think the general idea is a high ISO, wide aperture, and a fairly low shutter speed. Manual would be the best way to go about it. The flash - if at a reasonably close distance - will freeze action, whereas the 'original' settings will allow ambient light in. A problem you might encounter (I'm not that clued-up on the 450D) is that that effect is generally achieved with a second curtain trigger for the flash.

Saying that, I'm probably wrong! :o

[splithesky]

for these types of shots i generally dont crank up the iso too much... i think maybe around 400. ive shot alot of hardcore type shows with an ultra wide and a flash. if im shooting with the flash on camera, ill set the sync to second curtain. here are a couple of my favorites... i think these were shot with iso 320.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x315/splithesky/IMG_5355ps.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x315/splithesky/IMG_5288ps.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x315/splithesky/IMG_5529ps400.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x315/splithesky/IMG_5513ps.jpg

[funk1196]

how do i do the 2nd curtain thing on my camera? one of the Cn functions?

i actually talked to a tour manager last night, and not only did they let me in with my xsi (dslrs were not allowed in), but they got me between the stage and the crowd, where the bouncers are.
I'll post my pictures after i get done editing them.

But here's what i found to work best.

No flash:
always iso 1600, if i didnt, they were just too dark.
Av - 3.5, let the camera do the shutter. (or sometimes bring the exposure down)
or
M - 3.5 1/15 - 1/50
Some of my best shots were from the at 3.5 1/8.. and because i used continuous shooting, with all of the 100's of point and shoots with flash on in the crowd, i was able to catch some of those flashes without using mine!

Slow shutter flash:
took me a while to figure it out.. but..
seeing as how the stage was raised, and i was below it... here's what i did.
iso 100-400 (though usually 100-200)
Flash exposure +2 (this is what helped me the most because of my position relative to the stage)
3.5, and a 5" shutter.
technique 1:
was to put a performer in one side of the frame, and an ambient light in the other side (low or high in the frame), hit the shutter, and drag it to the other side of the frame. that way, the flash kept the performer bright enough even with low iso, but the ambient light off to the side, filling the rest of the frame.
technique 2:
start a big wider angle than i wanted the picture to end up, and then zoom in as soon as i pressed the shutter, careful to not reach the end of my zoom before the shutter was done (no time where the shutter was open, that i was NOT zooming) .. this way the tunnel vision of ambient lights remained straight lines all the way to or past the performer, no squigglies.


for anyone else that reads this that's just getting into concert photography with their dslr... talk to the merch guys, or the band members, and try to get up front where the bouncers are! i learned so much last night cause i did!.. just be CONFIDENT from the time that you ask someone, to the time you're up there. you just need people skills and u can get whatever you need.
:-P

[funk1196]

I'm gonna upload what i think are the best ones... almost all of these had as much post processing done as possible in Apple's Aperture.
Theyre definitely nothing pro, but this was my first concert.

Any critique would be MUCH appreciated, as i'll be shooting another concert this saturday!

(By the way, do you think i need a speedlite?)

1.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2613974675_1e96637793.jpg?v=0
2.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2613976507_e2d00b626b.jpg?v=0
3.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2614808488_a9928cb8c4.jpg?v=0
4.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/2613980053_e46e98dc52.jpg?v=0
5.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3199/2613981895_100c471a78.jpg?v=0
6.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2613983663_2466aaab74.jpg?v=0
7.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2614815400_a62fe0b6a5.jpg?v=0
8.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/2614817136_de1ef5d090.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2614081833_f64c771961.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2613988473_207a13b924.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/2614820430_0ecc87def8.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/2614822054_f371932ba9.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2614889028_8df9326392.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3210/2614061785_b28c275b21.jpg?v=0

Flash with .3-.5 shutter speed
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2614827518_0960d3aba7_m.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2614829318_2d6485408f.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2614830996_9b3e455a3a.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2614002735_d68653fa37.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/2614004547_ab49ce82c6.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2614836632_05f38d7d7c.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3042/2614893082_9e79bbcddb.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2614895142_f550dd1408.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2614067855_31f110025d.jpg?v=0

[funk1196]

Any help? Some people say not to use flash in concert photography, but then i cant get the effects that i do....

[scotteisenphotography]

I can't help you but where are you located. The guy wearing the cup cake and cross bones is wearing a shirt from my friends company =]

[funk1196]

I can't help you but where are you located. The guy wearing the cup cake and cross bones is wearing a shirt from my friends company =]

right now oklahoma city.
it's a 2 man band, and he's the front man. "the secret handshake"

[scotteisenphotography]

oh cool. i'm glad to see his clothing making it out there!

[funk1196]

should i really not use a flash?

[johnstoy]

Say funk... Hate to say this but we have a limit to post 8 pics per thread... We only post more when in reference to questions and answers... Give the FAQ's by Dwight McCann, and Pekka's guidelines, (Pekka owns this forum,) a once over, at the top of this forum page...

Otherwise, your shutter drag pics, are fairly colorful... Try, just to post your very best ones... Often, less is more... Save the others for another thread.

[funk1196]

yeah i just figured that out today, ive gotten a few people to say something...
my mistake, i saw it done before in a different post and didnt think it'd be that big of a deal...
i'll make sure i keep it to 8 max next time..

[Kevin]

funk1196, you better take a few minutes and read the image posting rules, I think you missed this http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=194511

[Maureen Souza]

Keep 8 photos up for viewing and convert the rest to links, please.

[funk1196]

okay.. now that i've followed the rules..... help?
how do i make the flash shots look better? am i just not close enough? do i need a speelite? is 3.5 not a wide enough aperture?

[johnstoy]

The cost of a speedlite is close to the cost of a fast prime... The 50mm f1.4 and the 85mm f1.8 are sharp, fast lenses... If you intend on working with shutter drag, than invest in a lite... However, most artists and venues restrict flash... You might be best off saving for the best glass you would like to use.

I try to save, save, save and buy once...

[funk1196]

The cost of a speedlite is close to the cost of a fast prime... The 50mm f1.4 and the 85mm f1.8 are sharp, fast lenses... If you intend on working with shutter drag, than invest in a lite... However, most artists and venues restrict flash... You might be best off saving for the best glass you would like to use.

I try to save, save, save and buy once...

I have yet to try my 50mm 1.8 ..... you think it'd do pretty good?

I'm kinda skeptical cause i wont be able to get any full body shots with it though.. 50mm is pretty close when youre under or on the stage.

[johnstoy]

I have yet to try my 50mm 1.8 ..... you think it'd do pretty good?

I'm kinda skeptical cause i wont be able to get any full body shots with it though.. 50mm is pretty close when youre under or on the stage.

The primes work when you can use your feet to manuver... Your legs will serve as your *zoom*... The 50mm f1.8 isn't too bad for shows... but when you find that it hunts for contrasts in order to focus, it might slow you up... There is a considerable difference when upgrading to the 50mm f1.4... Obviously it costs a lot more, but the results are quickly noticable...

Plan on being able to step back a step or two, and you'll be fine...

It's only when you get frustrated about the occasional slow focus, that you will wonder what to do next... and that would be... save, save, save for faster glass...

[René Damkot]

Flash or no flash will give an entirely different image. Up to you to choose what "effect" you want...

The 50 is quite a bit narrower, and will yield very different images because by moving further away to get the same framing, the perspective will change.

Then again, IMO most of the images you posted could use a crop ;)

IIRC I commented in another thread with these images, in another part of the forum?

[Walczak Photo]

If i dont make it to the front of the state (which i often don't), but still want to use my flash, is there a way that i can have the camera shutter be slightly behind the flash, so that it waits for the flash to reach the stage to open up the shutter?

The light coming from your flash is going to travel at the speed of light which equals 299,792,458 m / s...that's much faster then any setting you are going to be able to adjust on your camera. More directly this doesn't even begin to touch on how light disperses as it travels. Even if you are using a high end flash such as a 580EX, the light from the flash is only going to "travel so far" and still be effective.

There is a -ton- of information out there on this particular issue...stuff like why using a flash at a football or baseball game is completely ineffective, etc., which is the same issue here. While I'm not going to address your other questions, the answer to this specific question is "no".

Peace,
Jim