This is Bad! (Exposure)

[marqui]

Or is it? I don't want to get too heavy on my first post so here goes.

A wedding party sitting in one place, overcast day, four pictures are taken in a row, 3 seconds apart. ISO set to 400, D60 set to fully auto (P-Setting) and voila, out comes:
image 1. perfect,
image 2. 1 stop over
image 3. 1 stop over
image 4. perfect.

The setting is at single shot, the camera has had time to power between shots but still the problem happens. A 1GB microdrive and shooting in Large jpg

My wife has been taking professional photos for 20 years and we have used to D30 for over a year but the D60 seems so unpredictable.

Any ideas?

P.S. the forum is great, keep up the good work

Regards

Mark (N Ireland)

[Morden]

I can't say too much about this as I've only just (finally) got my own D60 this afternoon, but I have already noticed that the majority of my 'test' photos so far are roughly 1 stop underexposed when using my 420EX flash.

Also, I don't like the way that the camera doesn't appear to take the presence of the flash into account when determining the correct aperture or shutter settings in Tv an Av modes respectively. But then, I'm nowhere near used to the camera yet, so I may well have missed something.

Neil D.

[adamsmith]

The setting is at single shot, the camera has had time to power between shots but still the problem happens.

"time to power..." do you mean you are using a flash? If so, which one?

Can you tell us the shutterspeeds and aperature that got used with each of the 4 photos mentioned, i.e. are they the same (indictating a flash problem). I have used my D60 indoors with the built-in flash, and I'm having a lot of trouble with the exposures. The majority of my flash photos are way underexposed (more than a stop), beyond what is salvagable. I've gotten consecutive great and way-underexposed shots, just like you're experiencing, with no changes in camera-to-subject distance, shutter or aperature between the shots. It's almost like the flash is mis-firing a lot of the time. I haven't figured out exactly what's going wrong yet.

-Adam

[Morden]

This sounds more and more like what I am seeing, and I've read numerous posts on this forum in which this underexposing problem is mentioned. Often, it is attributed to shortcomings in the ETTL system, although I do not see the same problems with the same flash (420EX) on my G2.

Neil D.

[marqui]

Sorry, i forgot to include that flash wasn't used. I know that we have had to set flash to 1 or two stops difference to compensate for the ttl metering so this isn't the issue. And the shots haven't been underexposed but rather OVERexposed. Stranger still!

No, the 4 shots were taken at the same location. The two good shots had exif readings of 1/180 shutter speed, f/6.7 and ISO@400. The other two had 1/125 shutter speed, f/5.6 and ISO@400, one had even an ISO of 200 even though the ISO setting hadn't been changed.

As you can see, the light conditions were very good and a similar reading replicated using film would have been very positive producing good prints. My ultimate question is why the variance when in ideal conditions and furthermore why the camera have the inkling to even change the ISO when not instructed to do so.

Don't get me wrong. Additional photos were taken to remedy the situation and because my wife spotted and checked the images on the LCD (A good practice to carry out in a wedding shoot) the situation was saved.

It's the potential danger of not having confidence in a camera you have paid £2 grand for is the annnoyance.

As said earlier, we have used the D30 camera for over a year and it has been stable but within 2 and 1/2 months of using the D60, (OK, albeit on a permanent, daily basis[it's our livelihood]) we have went to extremes and the problem just crops up for no reason. It's impossible to replicate. I'm just glad we're not shooting in RAW. This would end up being worse from what i've heard.

BTW, I came across this excellent site giving a great impartial view on the new 1Ds camera. Check it out. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds/1ds-field.shtml

Regards

Mark (N Ireland)

[Morden]

"It's the potential danger of not having confidence in a camera you have paid £2 grand for is the annnoyance."

Believe me, my friend, I relate. After using numerous 'compact' digital camera for several years, I am generally pleased to have finally made the leap to more 'professional' kit, but I am concerned about some things that I have witnessed (only used my D60 for a few hours) and, moreso, what I have read here and elsewhere.

Having said that, a lot of the photos that I have taken today - even though I only just received the camera - could not have been captured using my G2.

I'm sure that this and other well documented issues will be discussed at length, but I had not previously heard of the 'automatic' ISO switching that you describe. That is wierd.

On a positive note, since you may have discovered the phenomenon, it should be named after you?

Neil D.

[marqui]

I THINK(Note Capitals ?) we have sussed it out. When in "P" Program mode, when the shots are being set up, the camera is automatically in "evaluative" focusing.

This is not necessarily a "Good" exposure setting to be in, as is obvious we need Centre-Weighted focusing. If I am trusting my camera to the evaluative qualities of the camera it is going to stray, so we decided to st the camera to AV/TV modes and we haven't had the problems since. This is because WE determine the focusing instead of letting the camera do it.

Hopefully this will help someone else

Regards

Mark

[oops]

marqui wrote:
I THINK(Note Capitals ?) we have sussed it out. When in "P" Program mode, when the shots are being set up, the camera is automatically in "evaluative" focusing.

This is not necessarily a "Good" exposure setting to be in, as is obvious we need Centre-Weighted focusing. If I am trusting my camera to the evaluative qualities of the camera it is going to stray, so we decided to st the camera to AV/TV modes and we haven't had the problems since. This is because WE determine the focusing instead of letting the camera do it.

Hopefully this will help someone else

Regards

Mark


Mark,

I think you may have the problem isolated to the "P" Mode selection. Good detective work. Roger Cavanah (Thanks, Roger) challenges me to stay out of this mode whenever possible and I will put this in the "Reasons Why" column.

You used the word "focus" and I know you mean "exposure". Again, good job! Thanks.

Chris

[marqui]

We had this demon of a wedding today.Used AV/TV exclusively and the overexposure came right into play again. 2 shots good, 2 shots bad.

We have worked and worked on these settings and every time we were able to replicate good exposures. So armed with this knowledge we went into todays wedding on a high. It ended up we had to shoot some of the shots in "Program" mode, coz these were the only ones that showed correct exposure. WHAT GIVES?

Again we were able to remedy the situation by taking extra "GOOD" photos but this IS getting out of hand.

As I say, we have enough for a decent wedding album but we have to suss this out.

Regards

Mark

P.S. I just want to point out that the light was full sun, everywhere and even the best of us have problems with it but "P" mode seemed to cope better than the AV/TV we used but out of it these tended to fare better. It gets stranger by the day. However overturning our previous use of flim and Bronica we WON'T go back.

Sorry oops to dampen your day.

[oops]

marqui wrote:
Sorry oops to dampen your day.


No 'dampen' at all. You folks have the 'clouds' on this one.

Just curious, Mark. You and your wife are pro photographers, you have doubtless worked with the very best and worst of equipment over the years, and you have chosen a digital camera not endorsed or designed as a pro model by its manufacturer. (You're not alone here by a long shot, from what I hear!:) )

Will this D60 experience, if unresolved, send you back to film? Up to mega-buck pro digital like the 1Ds? On to another system, altogether?

Again, just curious. I hate the thought of your exposure problems as a novice; as a pro it would be inexcusable. Canon is already walking a tight-rope in my book.

Chris

[marqui]

Chris,

No way! If even the sky fell in we would NOW NOT go back to Film. I'd like to stress my wife takes the photos(Having come from 20 years of film) and now my involvement is the downloading, re-sizing, retouching, special effects, etc. etc in Photoshop.

Having said that, one of the major problems is the "Digital Darkroom" ethic. I swear it's a bummer. In the past it was lick the film seal and hand it to the lab, pick it up and then give over the prints for viewing.

Now it's sort out the images, client preview via slideshow and album is done and dusted in about 2 weeks. No waiting till they get back to us and they love the sepia, Black and White and special effects already made up. Brilliant control!

No, if we think we feel the need we MAY go for the 1Ds but we are more than happy with the quality of the D60 for pro prints. There is only a slight difference in quality, i.e. straight lines on trouser suits which tend to come out very slightly pixelly but over and above the serious lack of grain, colour saturation and sharpness that comes from the D60 is superior to film. Dear knows what the 1Ds is like

Regards

Mark

[iamhives]

I use manual mode for flash pictures and get great results.. I use the ST - E2 and 420ex