Bokeh.....

[Zamora3]

...Will I get bokeh if I shoot in full manual mode or is that only in Av mode? Oh,and I'm using a Digital Rebel. Thanks for the help.

[cmM]

I think you have misunderstood the whole concept. Bokeh reffers to the characteristics of out-of-focus objects in an image. Whenever you have out of focus, you have bokeh, no matter what mode you're in.

here's an interesting read:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/bokeh.shtml
(I had to read it more than once to finally understand it)

[HJMinard]

Bokeh is not dependent upon mode ... it can be achieved in any mode except perhaps "landscape". However, you can ensure bokeh by using manual or AV and choosing a large aperature (small f-number).

[Zamora3]

Whenever I shoot in Tv mode I get no out of focus blur on the background (the entire image is sharp),I only recieve the blur on Av mode, but I have never tried using Full Manual mode.

[HJMinard]

Whenever I shoot in Tv mode I get no out of focus blur on the background (the entire image is sharp),I only recieve the blur on Av mode, but I have never tried using Full Manual mode.

When you use Tv you are allowing the camera to set the aperature size. Apparently in your examples the proper exposure required a relatively small aperature resulting in increased depth of field (and therefore no background blur). Bokeh can occur in Tv, but you can't control it. If it is a desired effect, you must choose Av, manual or - perhaps - "portrait" mode.

[Zamora3]

Ok, thanks for all the help.

[PacAce]

Bokeh is not dependent upon mode ... it can be achieved in any mode except perhaps "landscape". However, you can ensure bokeh by using manual or AV and choosing a large aperature (small f-number).

I think you are sort of misunderstanding what bokeh is yourself. You can not achieve bokeh because bokeh is an attribute or quality that describes an out of focus image. :)

[Jon, The Elder]

PacAce has got it closest.

"Good" Bokeh (see luminous landscape.com) has a buttery smooth softness to it and is a desirable but not necessary characteristic of a print.

Camera controls are used to achieve the required aperture/shutter combination, that allows the LENS to do its work. Bokeh is a product of the glass used in conjunction with the camera.

[PacAce]

PacAce has got it closest.

"Good" Bokeh (see luminous landscape.com) has a buttery smooth softness to it and is a desirable but not necessary characteristic of a print.

Camera controls are used to achieve the required aperture/shutter combination, that allows the LENS to do its work. Bokeh is a product of the glass used in conjunction with the camera.

Thank for that piece of clarification. And to further clarity what was stated, by "glass" we are talking about the lens and not the literal glass that makes up the lens. And, to be more precise, it's the make up of the aperture of the lens that determines the bokeh quality of the out of focus part of the image produced by the lens. :D

Although, in a cat lens, there's a little bit more involved than just the aperture, such as the mirror in the lens.

[HJMinard]

I think you are sort of misunderstanding what bokeh is yourself. You can not achieve bokeh because bokeh is an attribute or quality that describes an out of focus image. :)

And you cannot intentionally create (achieve) out of focus areas of an image?? Even if I'm missing the "essence" of bokeh :) - you're arguing semantics. I think we both understand what Zamora3 is trying to do ... and I think I correctly explained how to do it.

[TomC]

Very interesting.... symantics :)

[PacAce]

And you cannot intentionally create (achieve) out of focus areas of an image?? You're arguing semantics, but I think we both understand what Zamora3 is trying to do ... and I think I correctly explained how to do it.

No, it's not a matter of semantics. An out of focus image and bokeh are not the same thing. The original poster obviously did not ask the question correctly and the 2nd poster explained that to him.

Yes, you did answer the question that the original poster was actually trying to ask. I was just replying to your post regarding your use of the term bokeh, which is often times, but incorreclty, used interchangeably with "out of focus" and I just wanted to point that out to you. Didn't mean to offend you or anything (OK, my turn to apoligize :) ).

[PacAce]

Very interesting.... symantics :)

You mean as in the anit-virus company? ???

[HJMinard]

No, it's not a matter of semantics. And out of focus image and bokeh are not the same thing. The original poster obviously did not ask the question correctly and the 2nd poster explained that to him.

Yes, you did answer the question that the original poster was actually trying to ask. I was just replying to your post regarding your use of the term bokeh, which is often time, but incorreclty, used interchangeably with "out of focus" and I just wanted to point that out to you. Didn't mean to offend you or anything (OK, my turn to apoligize :) ).

Gotcha. No offense taken and none intended (in fact I just finished editing my reply a little because I decided it had an "offended" tone I didn't intend :confused: ). Perhaps semantics was the wrong word ... I was just trying to express that I understood what the originial poster was trying to ask (as opposed to words he/she used).

[pcasciola]

I have no problem typing bokeh, but how the hell do you pronounce it?

bo-kay?
Boca, like Boca Raton?
Or something else?

[PacAce]

I have no problem typing bokeh, but how the hell do you pronounce it?

bo-kay?
Boca, like Boca Raton?
Or something else?

The actual spelling is supposed to be BOKE but too many people were pronouncing it as a single syllable word like 'BLOKE" so the H was added to the end of the word to show that it's a two-syllable word.

BO = BO in Boca Rotan
KE = KE as in Keg without the G sound

[robertwgross]

Let me jump in.

If you had a perfect almost-f/1.0 lens, you might be able to perfectly control your depth of field. If the background were far enough back, you might be able to get it completely out of focus. That's a start.

If you have a really good lens, and the diaphram is really good, you might get the maximum degree of smoothness in the background. If you had a cheap, poorly designed lens, then you might get little awkward patterns of light showing up in the otherwise-blurry background. That's part of it.

However, bokeh can be deeper than that. If you might have some very blurry colors and shadows that might project the MOOD of the scene. The equipment will get you part of the way there, but you might have to apply some human creativity to the background to deliver that mood. Maybe it is turning up the backlight. Maybe turning it down. Maybe it is getting a texture, but nothing recognizable.

---Bob Gross---

[HJMinard]

Let me jump in.

---Bob Gross---

Got that, Zamora3? Thanks for clearing it all up for us, Bob! ;) :lol:

[robertwgross]

Thanks for clearing it all up for us, Bob!

My point was that there are some technical details in getting it right, but then there are some cognitive aspects to it that are difficult to quantify.

I guess you can just set up the Mood Compensation to +1 or +2.

---Bob Gross---

[HJMinard]

My point was that there are some technical details in getting it right, but then there are some cognitive aspects to it that are difficult to quantify.

Oh, I understand your point, Bob ... and I agree with it. I just think the thread has ventured beyond the intended scope of the original question (into philosophical territory). That's what Zamora3 gets for using the wrong terminology :lol: .

I guess you can just set up the Mood Compensation to +1 or +2.

:lol: I want that feature!!

[Bodog]

[QUOTE= :lol: I want that feature!![/QUOTE]

You'll need the latest russian hack for that!!
:lol:

[Zamora3]

Yes, thanks for all the help. I'm sorry for typing the question wrong...my bad.

[eric1]

bokeh pronounced like bouquet of flowers

[PacAce]

bokeh pronounced like bouquet of flowers

You mean like how the Spanish word "hombre" is pronounced like "umbray"? :)

[wintoid]

I work for a Japanese company, and when I mentioned the word "bokeh" to my boss, who is Japanese, he asked me to lower my voice as the word can be quite offensive. He said it means "out of focus", which can be applied as a term to a person, implying that they can't think very well, can't focus, or are just plain stupid! Apparently the origins of the word are from "pinbokeh", but at that point we got interrupted and I haven't had a chance to learn any more.

He expressed surprise that it was being used as a photographic term.

[cmM]

I work for a Japanese company, and when I mentioned the word "bokeh" to my boss, who is Japanese, he asked me to lower my voice as the word can be quite offensive. He said it means "out of focus", which can be applied as a term to a person, implying that they can't think very well, can't focus, or are just plain stupid! Apparently the origins of the word are from "pinbokeh", but at that point we got interrupted and I haven't had a chance to learn any more.

He expressed surprise that it was being used as a photographic term.Hahhaa. I like that!
From now on, when someone makes me mad, I'll just tell them "You're bokeh!"

[mdude85]

eh...this thread is bokeh.

[NILOLIGIST]

The better the lens, the better the bokeh. The boken on my 85 f/1.2L can not be matched. As for the settings you will get it easier if you shoot either manually wide open on apeture priority wide open. Shooting TV you will get motion blur more than bokeh blur. Of the 4 L lenses I have all of them have out of this world bokeh, but other lenses I have also give some nice bokeh too but not as nice to me.

What lens are you using?

Good luck,

NiL

[Zamora3]

All the lens' I use are listed in my signature below.

[monsieurhappy]

Am I missing the joke here, or is it really April 1st. not Jan 1st. But why so much fuss about taking a good out of focus pic. when we should be concentrating more about what we get in focus??

[robertwgross]

It's not a joke, so you may be missing the point.

Getting the subject perfect is what any photographer tries to do. Getting the background with the perfect degree of blur-texture sets the subject off. Getting all of that right the first time is what we strive for.

---Bob Gross---