Best way to back up

[ione]

I am sure that this subject has been discussed many times, but I couldn't find anything suitable to my situation.

I only use my internal HD for my apps, and downloading. I mostly used Ext HD. At the moment I have about 120 GB of dig images etc., and growing. I have 1-350 GB and 1-500 GB Ext. I also have a couple of old int HD that I'm put them into a case to use them as an Ext. HD. I have made extra copies to these old DR.

So here is my question. What is the best way to set up the primary Ext. HD. and how should I set up any other subsequent Ext HD as back up.

I am ambivalent relying too much on the couple old int HD, that now I'm using as Ext HD they have about 150 GB.

I am no interested in setting up a RAID system. I was also thinking getting a 1TB Ext Firewire HD, and using it as the primary Ext HD, and using the 500/350 as secondary back up. But I'm also looking for other options without the need to spend more $$ to buy another Ext HD.
:o

[jonnythan]

Another external hard drive.

It's good that you're not interested in RAID, because RAID is not a backup method. It's a redundancy method.

[ione]

Thank you for correcting me, so since you know the difference do you have a suggestion????

[CyberDyneSystems]

I agree with jonnythan

External drives,. but do make it plural.

[jonnythan]

Yes.

Another external hard drive ;)

[Wilt]

External harddrive, USB connection for max portability and independence from the harddrive controller used for direct-wired harddrives, which change standard completely every few years! USB has been a bit more enduring than harddrive controller protocols.

[ione]

I have decided to get a 1TB Ext Western Digital. I have read some reviews and they have been mixed.

I am wondering if anybody here has one and if so, what has been your experience.

I am wondering if you installed the software the came with it, or you are using a third party program to do the back up like SuperDuper (for Macs).

I am debating if I should format the Drive as FAT since I'd like to have access to the data in case of an emergency with my XP laptop. Altho, my primary computer is a Mac.

I'm aware of the limitations formatting as FAT drive you can only send files up to 4 GB. Are there any other limitations. I am also thinking of Partition this drive.

Any thoughts on this?

[jonnythan]

FAT32 should be fine.

I probably wouldn't use the software that comes with it. Microsoft's free Synctoy is all the backup tool I need.

[aridan]

on one is using online backups?

[Thrill]

I use Apple's Sync program to backup to my external and it works just fine.

If you are only backing up picture files the 4GB per file limitation shouldn't really hinder you. Unless for whatever reason you have a Windows OS older than XP then you wouldn't be able to see more than 32GB of the drive.

I have my external formatted in OS X extended, but I couldn't tell you if it works on my PC I've never tried.

Using internal drives setup in RAID level 1 would also protect you from a mechanical hard drive failure. But in the event that software, for whatever reason, messes up the data then you will have 2 sets of messed up stuff.

[ione]

I use Apple's Sync program to backup to my external and it works just fine.

If you are only backing up picture files the 4GB per file limitation shouldn't really hinder you. Unless for whatever reason you have a Windows OS older than XP then you wouldn't be able to see more than 32GB of the drive.

I am not familiar with Apply Synch, buy I used Super Duper a third party software.

I have my external formatted in OS X extended, but I couldn't tell you if it works on my PC I've never tried.

Using internal drives setup in RAID level 1 would also protect you from a mechanical hard drive failure. But in the event that software, for whatever reason, messes up the data then you will have 2 sets of messed up stuff.
_________________

Yes, I'm only backing up pictures. I have formatted my Ext as Journal and my XP laptop didn't recognize the drives at all period.

Yes, RAID set up sounds intriguing but I think it's way off my league for me though.

I'm hoping to hear from others here that are using the same Ext HD and if possible if they are sharing the same drive with Mac OS and Windows.

[PacAce]

If your primary system is an Apple, my recommendation is to use the 1TB drive partitioned into 3 logical disks as your backups for the 500GB, 300GB and the internal system drive. Use SuperDuper! or similar backup program to make clone copies of your work drives. With a Firewire attached external harddrive, you'll be able to boot off of the backup system drive should you lose your internal system drive and you'll be able to recover the internal system drive just as easily by doing a reverse backup (going from the backup to the internal drive). My Mac desktop computer is set up this way.

BTW, if you want to plug the external drives directly to the XP laptop, you'll need to format them as FAT32 as you suggested. But if it's fine to just connect the drives attached to the Mac via your internal network, then you can format the drives for the Mac file system.

[ione]

yes, my primary computer is my Mac but as I said I just hand an experience when I had to send my Mac to replace the HD, I couldn't get access to the data using my XP laptop because I had all my Ext HD formatted as Journal for the Mac vs FAT 32.

BTW, if you want to plug the external drives directly to the XP laptop, you'll need to format them as FAT32 as you suggested. But if it's fine to just connect the drives attached to the Mac via your internal network, then you can format the drives for the Mac file system

Leo, I am bit confuse what you are saying here. So if I connect the drive to my Mac via my network I can format the drive for the file system. I had the understanding that I need to format the drive once, and I usually do it going into the Utility portion, so I need to make a decision to format it as FAT 32 or Journal before start using the Ext Dr.

Somebody suggested to use crossover cable with hub, is that doable too?

As far as Partition, so it sounds like you are in agreement with me to divided into 3 parts 500/300/?

I also learned that by using a back up program is the safest way. I used it before and then was able to use all the data as though I never had replaced the HD.

[PacAce]

yes, my primary computer is my Mac but as I said I just hand an experience when I had to send my Mac to replace the HD, I couldn't get access to the data using my XP laptop because I had all my Ext HD formatted as Journal for the Mac vs FAT 32.

BTW, if you want to plug the external drives directly to the XP laptop, you'll need to format them as FAT32 as you suggested. But if it's fine to just connect the drives attached to the Mac via your internal network, then you can format the drives for the Mac file system

Leo, I am bit confuse what you are saying here. So if I connect the drive to my Mac via my network I can format the drive for the file system. I had the understanding that I need to format the drive once, and I usually do it going into the Utility portion, so I need to make a decision to format it as FAT 32 or Journal before start using the Ext Dr.

Somebody suggested to use crossover cable with hub, is that doable too?

As far as Partition, so it sounds like you are in agreement with me to divided into 3 parts 500/300/?

I also learned that by using a back up program is the safest way. I used it before and then was able to use all the data as though I never had replaced the HD.
What I meant by accessing the drive via the network is to have the external drives attached to the Mac. If both the XP laptop and the Mac desktop are attached to the same network, you can access the files on the external hard drive via the Mac. If the Mac is not turned on, though, you won't be able to access the external drives since it's the Mac that fetches the data from the external drive and passes it on to the laptop.

An external hard drive can only be attached and accessed to one system so you won't be able to use a hub to attach two systems to it.

[ZGMF-X20A]

You could use a NAS system that has RAID, or USB/firewire drives that has RAID. I find that RAID is essential if you really need security on what you have on the drive. I usually put important stuffs on a RAID 1+0 HDD on my server/desktop. Important but rarely accessed stuff on my NAS with RAID 1 and non-important stuffs on a regular USB drive.

[ione]

Leo,

I believe what you are saying to access the drive via file sharing right?. As far as the partitions, I am still debating to do it or not. What are the benefits? One thing for sure is that I'm not wasting any more time trying to decide how to format it as FAT32 or Journal.

I already plugged the EXT HD and it was quiet and it came formatted as FAT32. So far so good because other users complained that it made too much noise

Could you elaborate more what I need to do in order to make the Drive bootable.

RAID is not for me for now, I'm a bit intimidated may in the future

Thanks

[brecklundin]

nothing saved on a HDD is a true backup. HDD is archive/repository storage as they can fail as catastrophically as those in your system taking everything with them in the process.

Better back-up options are DAT tape or/and DVD's. I know DVD's are a PITA because of all the files and multiple diskes needed you have but keep a catalog and regular updated print outs of what is where. That way when your drive croaks or you need a file that has gone missing from your HDD and archive you can simply look up what you need and drag out that disk or tape.

I prefer multiple DVD's for more important info. Just be sure and enable compatibility mode or you might not be able to read it on other DVD drives/players.

I keep at least two DVD's for each project I am on...for daily stuff I use DVD-RW disks...for long term I use plain old write once read many DVD-R's...and I make 2-3 copies of the data on those if it is really important.

And more important, verify all back-up and make sure you can do a restore in the event of "the worst"...

I too have my eye on those new 1TB drives myself, but as an NAS option...

[PacAce]

nothing saved on a HDD is a true backup. HDD is archive/repository storage as they can fail as catastrophically as those in your system taking everything with them in the process.

Better back-up options are DAT tape or/and DVD's. I know DVD's are a PITA because of all the files and multiple diskes needed you have but keep a catalog and regular updated print outs of what is where. That way when your drive croaks or you need a file that has gone missing from your HDD and archive you can simply look up what you need and drag out that disk or tape.

I prefer multiple DVD's for more important info. Just be sure and enable compatibility mode or you might not be able to read it on other DVD drives/players.

I keep at least two DVD's for each project I am on...for daily stuff I use DVD-RW disks...for long term I use plain old write once read many DVD-R's...and I make 2-3 copies of the data on those if it is really important.

And more important, verify all back-up and make sure you can do a restore in the event of "the worst"...

I too have my eye on those new 1TB drives myself, but as an NAS option...
I think you have this backwards. HDD makes a good backup device but it is not good for archival/repository storage because, as you pointed out, it can fail catastrophically. A backup device duplicates what's already in another drive. An archival or repository storage does not and would require it's own backup in case of failure. :)

[Wilt]

nothing saved on a HDD is a true backup. HDD is archive/repository storage as they can fail as catastrophically as those in your system taking everything with them in the process.

Better back-up options are DAT tape or/and DVD's. I know DVD's are a PITA because of all the files and multiple diskes needed you have but keep a catalog and regular updated print outs of what is where. That way when your drive croaks or you need a file that has gone missing from your HDD and archive you can simply look up what you need and drag out that disk or tape.

I prefer multiple DVD's for more important info. Just be sure and enable compatibility mode or you might not be able to read it on other DVD drives/players.

I keep at least two DVD's for each project I am on...for daily stuff I use DVD-RW disks...for long term I use plain old write once read many DVD-R's...and I make 2-3 copies of the data on those if it is really important.

And more important, verify all back-up and make sure you can do a restore in the event of "the worst"...

I too have my eye on those new 1TB drives myself, but as an NAS option...

One might dispute HDD vs. tape, but one CANNOT think of backup on burnable DVD as archival, when DVD dyes are organic dyes which are attacked similar to organic dyes of color film, which is widely known to be affected by light and chemical fumes, etc. The ONLY DVD type which can at all approach 'archival is the DVD+R type. No one should ever think of DVD+-RW as anything but short term data redundancy. Magnetic recording (tape) is thus far the only storage proven for 50+ years in actual usage, the rest are artificial accelerated testing result theories only.

[PacAce]

Leo,

I believe what you are saying to access the drive via file sharing right?. As far as the partitions, I am still debating to do it or not. What are the benefits? One thing for sure is that I'm not wasting any more time trying to decide how to format it as FAT32 or Journal.

I already plugged the EXT HD and it was quiet and it came formatted as FAT32. So far so good because other users complained that it made too much noise

Could you elaborate more what I need to do in order to make the Drive bootable.

RAID is not for me for now, I'm a bit intimidated may in the future

Thanks

Which Mac system do you have? The older PPC-based or the newer Intel-based system? If PPC-based, you will need a firewire attached hard drive. If it's Intel-based, either firewire or USB attached will allow you to reboot from that drive. I use SuperDuper! to back up my system drive and it has a feature that makes the backup a bootable back up. I cannot say whether that's true with the other backup program, though, since I have no experience with them so you might want to check that out for the backup software you are using.

BTW, in order for the external drive to be bootable, it needs to be formatted as a Journaled drive.

[ZGMF-X20A]

And the easiest to boot into the USB or to try to boot into the USB, press the option key when you hear the apple boot chime. Also, instead of SuperDuper! you can try Carbon Copy Cloner. That's the one I use primarily.