My first ballet...request for advice please

[phantomdilbert]

Well it's my daughter's first ballet but I digress:

Myself and another one of the dads will be taking shots. All I know so far:
-lighted stage/auditorium
-we have fairly free range
-no flash

My equipment:
-40D, all of 3 days old (woohoo)
-tamron 24-75mm 2.8
-borrowed 70-200 2.8L IS
-50mm 1.8
-I might have my old XT body if I haven't sold it yet either

My experience:
-Mostly my kids, assisted in one wedding. Early amuetuer. Had my XT for two years. Shot mostly in Av or Tv. Just now shooting in RAW.

Advice requested:
-What are the technical things I should watch out for, such as use awb or tungsten, iso setting in such environments, shoot all in RAW, etc?
-What types of artistic recommendations would you have...(I'm fully aware beauty is in the eye of the beholder but still would love to get your take).
-Anything else I should know?

Thanks!

[René Damkot]

WB: tungsten
Raw: Yes
ISO: Probably around ISO 1600
Aperture: Probably wide open to get high enough shutterspeeds.
Fill those CF cards ;)

Have a look in the FAQ

[alan_potter]

My standard recommendations:


Shoot RAW and expect to post-process
Shoot at your highest acceptable ISO. Noise is easier to ameliorate than motion blur
Shoot Av, and set it to the widest aperture that you can be comfortable about getting an adequate DOF. Probably no narrower than f/4
Shoot slightly wider than you think you need to. Dancers move fast, and it's easier to crop than to add a missing hand, foot or head
Shoot in burst mode, take two or three of every shot. People turn quickly, blink and have unfortunate expressions on their face - burst mode lets you throw the bad 'uns away
Think carefully about focus points and maybe use AI Servo
Take as many cards and batteries as you can, and shoot lots of photographs
In post, look for nice arm, leg and body lines. Dancers will thank you for that :)


And enjoy it!

regards,
/alan

[Walczak Photo]

Well, the first thing I would suggest is to see if they will allow you to come in sometime before the actual ballet (maybe the day before or during a dress rehersal) and do a few test shots with the lighting they will be using. If you can do this, it will tell you a lot of what you will need to know as far as white balance, ISO, aperture, shutter speeds, etc.. On that same note, if you can catch a dress rehearsal this will give you the advantage of knowing where a given dancer or dancers will be at any given point of the show so you'll know where you should be for an optimum shooting angle. This will help you to avoid things such as "gee...that would have been a really great shot if only I had of been on the other side of the stage".

If you're going to be shooting with the 40D, I would suggest getting out and shooting with it a little more so you -know- how to work the camera when the big day comes. It can be really frustrating doing an important shoot with a new camera if you end up loosing shots because you can't remember how to "adjust such and such" (I had this happen at a zoo shoot recently with my new 40D...couldn't remember how to change the aperture in manual mode, didn't have the manual with me and ended up shooting wide open all day). With that said, for an indoor shoot, I'd crank up that ISO...the 40D's seem to do remarkably well at ISO 1600 and even the extended 3200 (certainly as compared with the Rebel XT). I would however turn the in camera noise reduction off so it doesn't slow down your shooting speeds. Tis better to have to clean up a little bit of noise later in pp then to loose the shot all together because the camera was "busy". Do what you need to do to keep that shutter speed up! Most definitely shoot in RAW and that way if your white balance is off or something, it's much easier to correct later. I would also have LOTS of memory cards too and shoot A LOT of pictures to make sure you get some good keepers (see Alan's comment about burst mode and such in the response above). Shooting with the AF in servo might not be a bad idea either but if you can do a test shoot the day before, I'd try it both ways and see which works better for you. Personally I find that servo mode can be a little "hit or miss" with both my Rebel XT and my new 40D.

Also, if you do have that XT with you, I'd have that one setup with the wider angle lens (the mighty nifty fifty perhaps since it's your fastest lens) and shoot your wide angles with that and use the 40D with the 70-200 f/2.8 for getting the tighter shots. This will avoid having to swap lenses back and forth while you're shooting. Also if you use the nifty fifty on the XT, remember that you won't need as fast of a shutter speed as you will with the longer lenses so you might be able to get away with a lower ISO setting (since the XT tends to get rather noisy at ISO 1600).

While you're shooting, keep an eye on your picture count. Another thing that is really frustrating is when you are ready to catch the lead dancer in mid jump for example, you click the shutter and nothing happens because the camera display is flashing "CF Card Full". If you have a short break in the action and you see your card is down to only 8 or 10 shots left, change it...it's not like you're wasting film :D.

Don't forget to charge up all your batteries and clean all of the lenses the night before and then get everything organized so you don't have to go "searching" for things like your spare batteries or memory cards during the shoot! Check and double check -everything- the day of the shoot...there's nothing worse than getting to the gig only to find that you left that 70-200 f/2.8 lens sitting on the coffee table!

Now as far as "creative" shots go, I would go for shots that involve moment...dancers jumping caught in mid air and such and or shots that may convey any sort of artist lighting (such as a single lead dancer in the spot light). A few wide angle shots are good, but I'd focus primarily on tight shots of individual dancers and such. If these are younger children, also be on the look out for funny/goofy expressions as well.

Good luck and have fun!
Jim

[phantomdilbert]

Wow thanks for the advice, very useful! Just this morning I had an opportunity to view some of the photos from a previous year on disk and noticed the attributes from the shooter:
Shot with a 5D in Tv mode.
Typically was wide open (f/2.8), ISO 1600, focal length anywhere from 28mm to 70mm. Shutter speeds were quick to stop motion (1/160 onward). At 70mm still got multiple people in frame so looks like the 70-200 might be useful.

We will have an opportunity to go to the dress rehearsal one night prior so I will get to test out settings, placement, etc. As far as equipment preparation, my spare battery just arrived today, extra CF cards arrive Friday. Is it wrong to use my kids to justify my camera fetish =)?

I have another friend, much more talented than I, that I am trying to talk into coming as well. It's his 70-200mm, so I may have him use it instead depending on the setup.

I talked to the dance studio owner and part of what she wants to shoot include backstage , getting ready, flowers, the costumes, etc. Details that she never gets to really sit back and enjoy.

What about 'motion' shots? One where the arms are spinning or legs in motion? It's probably difficult to get that motion and keep face in focus?

[Walczak Photo]

Just this morning I had an opportunity to view some of the photos from a previous year on disk and noticed the attributes from the shooter:
Shot with a 5D in Tv mode.
Typically was wide open (f/2., ISO 1600, focal length anywhere from 28mm to 70mm. Shutter speeds were quick to stop motion (1/160 onward). At 70mm still got multiple people in frame so looks like the 70-200 might be useful.

The 40D is a good camera and may serve you even better than a 5D in this case as the 40D (supposedly) have quicker AF. With the gear list you said you were bringing, you should be able to pretty much shoot at close to those same settings.

Is it wrong to use my kids to justify my camera fetish =)?

I'd say as long as your not taking food off the table or sacrificing the rent money over it, I see no problem at all :D. Of course, this comes from a guy who's been known to skip car payments to buy a new guitar so please take my opinion there with a grain of salt! LOL!!!

I talked to the dance studio owner and part of what she wants to shoot include backstage , getting ready, flowers, the costumes, etc. Details that she never gets to really sit back and enjoy.

Well what I would suggest here is to look around on the internet (including here at POTN) and look for similar shots to use as "inspiration". In other words, use a little artistic flare and don't shoot just "snap shots" of the people getting ready. Look for interesting lighting, good close ups, etc.. One thing I would be on the look out for particularly is facial expressions...again I don't know how old these kids are but generally speaking many people get a bit of stage fright just before a big performance...and it can make for wonderful pictures (insert evil grin here). The best analogy I can give you is to think of it like you were shooting the preparations just before a wedding...you get those moody shots of the bride deep in contemplation where the viewer is wondering if she's having second thoughts! LOL!!!

Shooting stuff like the flowers and such back stage are pretty easy for the most part...use simple backgrounds, shallow DOF and if possible try and light the flowers some what from the top and side. If you can get the flash off camera via triggers or something similar, so much the better. There should be plenty of good flower shots both here on POTN and around the internet to provide inspiration. The same sort of thing applies to costumes too...a ballerina outfit with leg warmers and slippers gently draped over a chair with a very simple background usually works very well. If the costumes are on a rack of some sort, a nice side shot with a limited DOF usually makes for a nice composition. Of course since these are for the studio owner, do get at least a few "candids" as well just don't make them all snap shots.

What about 'motion' shots? One where the arms are spinning or legs in motion? It's probably difficult to get that motion and keep face in focus?

Well as the old saying goes, "it's always harder to hit a moving target" and this certainly applies to photography as well. My suggestion here would be to use a single auto focus point (as apposed to having them all turned on) that you can keep trained on the face/eyes of the intended subject. Again a fast shutter speed is important but also remember that you don't necessarily want to "freeze the action"...some motion blur in the hands and legs is usually acceptable and often even preferred. Again here using servo mode on the AF could be an advantage but as I've said before, my experience is that it can also be real hit or miss, so make sure you take -lots- of shots to make sure you get some keepers. What I might almost suggest is taking the kids to the park and practice a little first...get the feel of tracking the subject as it were. Shooting while "panning" is almost something of an art unto itself and is very different from shooting a stationary object (or person). Get the kids to swing back and forth on a swing and when you can actually catch the shot with their face in focus, you'll know you're going in the right direction! I do the same thing at local no leash dog parks...great place to practice panning techniques with the servo.

I kind of hate to say this but most people who are really good at capturing shots of this nature have usually been doing it for many years and this sort of thing is often their specialty. It's not so much a matter of "talent" as much as simply experience. I'm honestly not trying to be rude and I don't want to discourage you, but I seriously wouldn't set your expectations too high...just do the best that you can. Trust your instincts. Again I would look around on the internet for good shots (use Google Images and do a search for "ballet") to provide you with some inspiration so you'll know what kind of shots to look for when the time comes (and read the EXIF data on those shots where possible so you'll know how they were captured).

Peace,
Jim

[phantomdilbert]

Here's a few sample shots from the rehearsal...getting the right exposure was tricky with the constant lighting changes. This one is also a bit off angle, the front row is open but I am thinking about standing in the far back w/ the 70-200 to get head to toe shots. When in the front row, it's impossible to get floor (toe) shots without blocking the audience. Comments/feedback welcome.
SAMPLE1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2607155008_db6970020b_b.jpg
Camera: Canon EOS 40D
Exposure: 0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture: f/3.5
Focal Length: 28 mm
ISO Speed: 1000
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Flash did not fire

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 72 dpi
Y-Resolution: 72 dpi
Software: Digital Photo Professional
Date and Time: 2008:06:23 16:49:08
YCbCr Positioning: Centered
Exposure Program: Aperture priority
Date and Time (Original): 2008:06:23 16:49:08
Date and Time (Digitized): 2008:06:23 16:49:08
Shutter Speed: 483328/65536
Sub-Second Time: 40
Sub-Second Time (Original): 40
Sub-Second Time (Digitized): 40
Color Space: sRGB
Focal Plane X-Resolution: 4438.356 dpi
Focal Plane Y-Resolution: 4445.969 dpi
Compression: JPEG
Image Width: 3888 pixels
Image Height: 2592 pixels

[phantomdilbert]

Second picture. See how the lighting from a side spotlight throws off exposure for the feet in the back? Any way to balance that out or will I have to live with that?
SAMPLE2
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2606330379_0f7b32392e_b.jpg
Camera: Canon EOS 40D
Exposure: 0.008 sec (1/125)
Aperture: f/3.2
Focal Length: 28 mm
ISO Speed: 1000
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Flash did not fire

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 72 dpi
Y-Resolution: 72 dpi
Software: Digital Photo Professional
Date and Time: 2008:06:23 19:05:24
YCbCr Positioning: Centered
Exposure Program: Manual
Date and Time (Original): 2008:06:23 19:05:24
Date and Time (Digitized): 2008:06:23 19:05:24
Shutter Speed: 458752/65536
Sub-Second Time: 00
Sub-Second Time (Original): 00
Sub-Second Time (Digitized): 00
Color Space: sRGB
Focal Plane X-Resolution: 4438.356 dpi
Focal Plane Y-Resolution: 4445.969 dpi
Exposure Mode: Manual
Compression: JPEG
Image Width: 3888 pixels
Image Height: 2592 pixels

[phantomdilbert]

One more. I am borrowing a 10-22 tomorrow for the recital, in case I decide to try and take shots at the front row at least I have a bit wider range. The 28mm was close and I lost a foot in this shot. That and I think some cropping could be done with this photo.
SAMPLE3
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2606338775_5f0f1280c4_b.jpg
Camera: Canon EOS 40D
Exposure: 0.005 sec (1/200)
Aperture: f/3.2
Focal Length: 35 mm
ISO Speed: 1600
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Flash did not fire

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 72 dpi
Y-Resolution: 72 dpi
Software: Digital Photo Professional
Date and Time: 2008:06:23 19:58:59
YCbCr Positioning: Centered
Exposure Program: Aperture priority
Date and Time (Original): 2008:06:23 19:58:59
Date and Time (Digitized): 2008:06:23 19:58:59
Shutter Speed: 499712/65536
Sub-Second Time: 00
Sub-Second Time (Original): 00
Sub-Second Time (Digitized): 00
Color Space: sRGB
Focal Plane X-Resolution: 4438.356 dpi
Focal Plane Y-Resolution: 4445.969 dpi
Compression: JPEG
Image Width: 3888 pixels
Image Height: 2592 pixels

[alan_potter]

Good start! Was it fun?

I think you are absolutely right about going further back and using a longer lens. It may be just me, but I don't like pictures taken from the front looking up at a stage. They're seldom flattering; it's bad enough if you're looking up my nose but in the setting you're in you're going to end up shooting up people's skirts, or shooting at their crotch... even if you avoid that you're going to end up with big-looking legs and small heads. As I say, I'd go further back.

The next issue to deal with is colour balance. Did you shoot RAW? There's a perennial tension about whether to make the picture reflect what the lighting designer wanted, or to make the people look good. Of course, these are not always in conflict, but when they do diverge I tend to go for the "make the people look good". I found that a tweak to the colour balance and then some levels to bring the midrange back up made a big difference to #1, but then realised you don't allow image editing...

You don't have any EXIF information, so we can't see how much light there was. Was it bright?

As for the lighting being on the people in the back and highlighting them, there's not much to do for that. If it's a special shot, I am sure that some significant time spend with burn & dodge could help, but you wouldn't want to do that for hundreds of images...

Anyway, it's a great start - let's see how you get on tomorrow :)

regards,
/alan

[phantomdilbert]

It was fun but challenging =). Especially because my daughter was against some harsh lighting so her photos did not turn out well.

Manually added EXIF data.

When I shot in Av, I had some interesting challenges when the stage lighting changed or flashed, it would throw off the camera metering and I'd go from shooting 1/200 to 1/60.

Tried manual, but exposure bounced around a bit, of course for the same reason. Right now I am not fast/accurate enough to adjust shutter speed to light conditions and catch that right shot/pose.

I did shoot RAW, donno if it's possible to edit since the post above is a URL? I could send you to the original size jpg if you wanted to tweak it...would understand 'how' as well =).

Thanks!

[letsmakeart]

Jeez I wouldn't want to be doing that in highheels!

Applying some bluey green to the highlights in some of these can take the edge off red lighting if it ever bothers you. Some people like to keep it and some people hate it.