550 Flash and FPS Question

[MDJAK]

I have the 550 flash and the 20d which I use along with my 70-200 2.8 IS lens for indoor high school wrestling and swimming picture taking. I haven't tried it, but can the flash (or the internally mounted flash) keep up with the five frames per second speed of the camera? Would an external battery pack small enough to be carried on the hip be useful?

If not, are these speeds only to be used outside, or where there is enough light?

As a rank amateur, I am always amazed when I see that perfect sports photograph, but I tend to think that the photographer had his finger down shooting shot after shot to get that one good one.

[PacAce]

Maybe this might answer some of your questions:

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51638

[redbutt]

I haven't tried it, but can the flash (or the internally mounted flash) keep up with the five frames per second speed of the camera? Would an external battery pack small enough to be carried on the hip be useful?

I have a 1D MkII and the 550. Yes, it can keep up with the high speed mode, for a short time. It' can't go for ever though. I think the best I've managed was 4 frames on battery power, then it needs to rest for a sec. An external battery, like the Quantum Turbo or something is really helpful for this. The 550 manual has something in there about the max # of flashes that you can do in burst mode without burning the thing up.

[KennyG]

As a rank amateur, I am always amazed when I see that perfect sports photograph, but I tend to think that the photographer had his finger down shooting shot after shot to get that one good one.

Not true, good sports pros use burst mode infrequently, most work being done in single shot. It is a matter of learning to read what you are photographing, not taking a shotgun to it.

[DaveG]

I have the 550 flash and the 20d which I use along with my 70-200 2.8 IS lens for indoor high school wrestling and swimming picture taking. I haven't tried it, but can the flash (or the internally mounted flash) keep up with the five frames per second speed of the camera? Would an external battery pack small enough to be carried on the hip be useful?

If not, are these speeds only to be used outside, or where there is enough light?

As a rank amateur, I am always amazed when I see that perfect sports photograph, but I tend to think that the photographer had his finger down shooting shot after shot to get that one good one.

You need to re think using a flash from the camera postion to shoot sports. And that's any flash!

You really have two choices with a camera position flash: You either eliminate all of the ambient light (1/250 @ f8 ) and get flash fall off so there is only blackness behind the subjects; or you try to match the ambient light to the flash, 1/60 @ f2.8 which will cause ghosting. The first shots look like they were done in the 1950's and the latter shots have lots of blur. In any case they both suck.

The high speed flash capability of the 550 and 20D will both significantly weaken the flash output, and is VERY hard on your flash. Have a look at the 550's instruction book for that bad news.

Pro's as I've said here before, will use radio slaved strobes that they mount in the ceiling of professional sports arenas. The use at least two, the light is indirect and there is no background fall off. They recycle very quickly and have short duration flash pops. I used to think that the Sports Illustrated guys worked in wonderfully bright buildings, but they just had the toys, and more than a little talent.

Well that setup is impossible for most of us and all we can do is use a high ISO and fast lenses. That's it. I always found that I needed f2 to shoot in high school gyms. ISO 1600 (pushed Tri-X), 1/500 @ f2 and I got good results at basketball and volleyball games. I generally won't shoot sports at shutterspeeds under 1/500 of a second, but wrestling is slower so you might get the shutterspeed down to 1/250 if you pick your spots.

You almost certainly will have to go to ISO 3200 (H) to use the 70-200. If this still won't do it (that's some dark gym!) then walk away. My newspaper was always sending us to this rink, ironically called the Grey Rink, which was home to short course speed skating in my town. Well the lighting was about 1/60 @ f2 with ISO 3200. All I could do was shoot the start where the four skaters were motionless. The third time the paper sent me I asked why we just didn't use one from the week before, and the sport's editor took the hint! My point is that just because they have the sport it doesn't mean that we can successfully shoot it.

I've never shot sports by holding down the shutter button either. I generally shoot in bursts with a three shot burst being the longest, and even that was infrequent. The key is knowing the sport so you have some sense of what's coming next. And don't - for god's sake - move around! I'd go to a hockey game and watch my competition move from one side of the rink to the other. It always seems that the other man's grass is greener but you have to be patient and let the action come you you. Set up in a good place (and I'd be sitting right on the floor for wrestling) and watch - through the lens - until you anticipate the shot.

Now in spite of the great AF in the 20D, and it is very good, a whole bunch of your sport shots are going to be out of focus. This happens to everyone and you too will have your stories of the great ones that got away.

For swimming, flash actually looks good if you can shoot from the pool deck with the flash aimed down so there's no background. But swim races often start now with an electronic flash pulse rather than a gun. If you are shooting and your flash pops, this may give rise to false starts and you're likely to be chucked out, so ask first.

[MDJAK]

That was an extremely informative and thorough reply. Boy, would I like to sit at your elbow for a number of events.

Your comment about out of focus is right on. For some reason, I can't even get the hand-raising of the winner of the match in focus most times.

As far as your explanation about slave flashes, I have seen it at basketball games in Madison Garden, including the remote controlled cameras up on the backboard.

I went to World Championship Wrestling last year at the Garden (not the fake stuff) and there was a row of photographers, not moving around (just as you recommended), and I noticed one photographer who had a slave flash along the side of one mat, mounted high on a pole. I might give that a try because, as you noted, the pictures haven't been coming out good for the most part.

[alan sh]

I ran a test with my 580 and the 20D. I set it on continuous shooting and Large Jpeg and held the shutter button down. It shot off 25 photos, 4 of which had the flash NOT firing (so 21 with flash). It stuttered a bit at times but seemed to cope quite well.

Alan

[Longwatcher]

Not sure on 580EX flash, but my experience with 550EX is that range and batteries is a big factor in how many shots it will get off per second.

At short ranges (less then 2 meters), the flash will not fire off the whole charge and I will only drop about 1 in 8 pictures. at medium range (2-5 meters) I can usually get 3-4 pictures before getting every other one with flash. Beyond 5 meters (especially at beyond 10 meters) I can get two shots in a row, then a long (relatively) wait for the next flash.

Batteries and power packs also make a difference. Best results to date have been Kodak digital Max oxy-akaline batteries (get better as they heat up) and Duracell or Eveready (there green anyway) rechargeable NiMH batteries. Haven't tried a power pack yet, and probably never will as my flash are for travel and emergency backup.

I used to set my 550EX for 105mm manual on my 10D with 70-200/2.8 IS and fire away. I suspect that trick won't work as good with my 1DsMkII due to wider angles, but have not had the opportunity to try it out yet in a realistic setting.

[René Damkot]

Not sure on 580EX flash, but my experience with 550EX is that range and batteries is a big factor in how many shots it will get off per second.

Off course.. Will be the same with any flash not on M. Also the aperture and ISO set will make a difference... If the flashes output is higher, it takes longer to recycle. :rolleyes:

[PacAce]

If the flashes output is higher, it takes longer to recycle. :rolleyes:

Not necessarily. It's all a matter of the RC time constant which has nothing to do with output power. As a case in point, the 580EX supposedly recycles faster than the 550EX but it can ouputs more power than the 550EX can. :D

[René Damkot]

Not necessarily. It's all a matter of the RC time constant which has nothing to do with output power. As a case in point, the 580EX supposedly recycles faster than the 550EX but it can ouputs more power than the 550EX can. :D
Duuhhh. When using a specific flash, recycle time will be longer if flash output is higher. Of course, there may be another flash unit recycling faster. Adding a Quantum or Canon high speed power supply will also reduce recycling time. Obvious. :rolleyes:

By the way, when using quick bursts of high output flashes, the flash head needs to cool down after a while! Otherwise it will overheat....

[PacAce]

Duuhhh. When using a specific flash, recycle time will be longer if flash output is higher. Of course, there may be another flash unit recycling faster. Adding a Quantum or Canon high speed power supply will also reduce recycling time. Obvious. :rolleyes:

By the way, when using quick bursts of high output flashes, the flash head needs to cool down after a while! Otherwise it will overheat....
Duhhh to you to. You could have said that the first time instead of being so ambiguous. :rolleyes:

[René Damkot]

Xcuse me, but I think that's what I said... Must be English not being my native language. Sorry 'bout that :) As long as we agree, I'm happy :D

[PacAce]

Xcuse me, but I think that's what I said... Must be English not being my native language. Sorry 'bout that :) As long as we agree, I'm happy :D
:D :D :D

[MDJAK]

I like it when guys kiss and make up. I hate fights on my topics.