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Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 10:59
Pleeease, Thankyou!

Ok so my first wedding on saturday. I'll tell you what lens' I have- (quite a few- so dont want to be constantly changing - it will annoy me my sensor and my clients)

I have the

85L f1.2 mk 2, 135L, 50f1.4, 70-200 f2.8 is, tamron 28-75mm, and wide angle 17-40 by sigma - (will mount this as neccessary) also a sigma 105mm macro.

My cams are 5d and 40d....

Pivotal points in the day i'd like opinions on....

1) Bride getting ready - thinking 5D with 85L and 40D with 135f2- nice and fast and destroy bits and bobs lying around in the background of shots...
Also thinking maybe change to the 50 f1.4 for a few of them on the 5d at times...

I will also be taking some shots of her and bridesmaid in the garden at her parents

2) arriving at the church bride arriving... (i have a second shooter from this forum who will already be at the church) im thinking 5D with wide angle (want some nice church pics--- its a GREAT church with a nice path) and 40d with the 50 1.4 maybe?

3) bride walking down the isle?
- i will chase ahead before she goes down to wait at the end. thinking 5d with 85f1.2 and the 135L on the 40D - not sure if i should use the 70-200 or not here (if the church is longer than i though i will use the 70-200 on 40d)
Might alternate on the 5D during the ceremony with 70-200 and 85L so i can get closeups (depending how far away i am might need the crop factor)
....
would like to have second shooter hold a flash as she first starts to walk down the aisle behind the bride and light her up with my radio triggers (any comments on this?)

4) for guests milling around thinking 85L / 135L on the 40d combination... might give the 40d to my girlfriend who is assistant at the wedding to just see what she gets and i will hae the 5D with 85L and 501.4/WA in my pocket

5) I will have my bag for the formal shots and will change as neccessary (people can wait)




Sorry for the longwinded post. Can anyone see a floor in my plans? Would anyone change anything. I should be able to shoot nearly everything natural light maybe with some fill. The more i type the more i think DO i need the 70-200 at all? maybe for reach... depends how big the church is...

AS you can see my brain is on OVERDRIVE! Any help really welcomed!

wedding is for these fine people :D
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2548627827_6a68a550ab.jpg

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:07
Be sure to check with the pastor to see if you are allowed to use flash during the ceremony.
And don't be afraid to get your shots during the ceremony but PLEASE don't be annoying and obtrusive.
Annoying & Obtrusive = non-stop flashes going off during the ceremony, walking down the isle during the ceremony, loud shoes, keys in pocket, getting in front of the guests.
(don't want to ruin it for any of the pros).

You can plan on what lenses to use all you want now, but when it comes down to crunch time you will probably throw your whole plan away.

Weddings can go one of two ways.
They can be easy to plan out and you will be able to follow your plans easily.
Or they can have your whole world twisted and backwards leaving your plans out the window.

Try not to get your brain in overdrive or you will just get yourself extra nervous and you will be running around like a mad man on the day of the wedding. Stay calm, cool, and collected together.

Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:13
Be sure to check with the pastor to see if you are allowed to use flash during the ceremony.
And don't be afraid to get your shots during the ceremony but PLEASE don't be annoying and obtrusive.
Annoying & Obtrusive = non-stop flashes going off during the ceremony, walking down the isle during the ceremony, loud shoes, keys in pocket, getting in front of the guests.
(don't want to ruin it for any of the pros).

.


Thanks for the tips! I will check with the pastor about flash.... I hope to go au natural but its good to check first. The only flash would be 3 shots as she walks down the isle...

Re ruining it for the Pros... I am the main photog. should have mentioned that.

staceyann
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:21
Just wanted to say good luck on your first wedding on Sat! BTW, my husband is from Manchester.

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:28
Re ruining it for the Pros... I am the main photog. should have mentioned that.


Yes I noticed that, but as a main photog, if you're unexperienced you can still do things to ruin it for everyone else in the future.

For example, lots of priests and pastors don't mind if you use flash, but the few that don't allow photographers to use flash probably don't allow flash because at one point they experienced a photographer shooting flash rapid fire during the ceremony. Ruining it for the rest of the pros.

Yeah 50 and 85 would be good to use for the getting ready shots. The shallow dof will eliminate any messy and distracting things in the background. During the ceremony you will probably need the 70-200 if you are shooting from the back. If you can get up on the balcony with your wide angle and get a shot of the full ceremony that might be a good idea too. Or send your second shooter up there with a long lens and a fisheye to get these shots for you. During the reception you will probably be good with the 24-70 or a 16-35 or whatever combination you have in that focal range. Be sure to bring at least 2 flashes and plenty of extra AA batteries!!

Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:51
thanks. i understand what you meant now
I HOPE to be up front during the ceremony... to the side... we shall see... i will call the pastor to ask.

by the way i have a 580ex2 430ex and 2 vivitar 285s

Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 11:52
Just wanted to say good luck on your first wedding on Sat! BTW, my husband is from Manchester.


thanks very much i'll be sure to post the results here... its for these fine people...

http://tobiahtayo.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/charlotte-jason-e-session/

ndelacova
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 12:28
If it is not too far, you should probably check out the church to see if it is large, dark, etc. You can get a feel for it. Also, it helps in not getting lost. I have seen posted here how a photog was lost an his way to the reception. It does not hurt.

candjphoto
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 12:39
Hey, Tobiah - good luck. My word of advice after six years of wedding photography is to keep it simple. Don't get too bogged down with lens choices or you'll go crazy. The 70-200 is my main lens, and it stays on the Mark III till the reception. The 5D has the 24-105 for the wider shots in all situations, but I might throw on the 35 1.4 if lighting is dark and to throw the background out-of-focus for getting ready shots. I generally don't change this till the reception, when the 70-200 comes off the Mark III, and on goes the 35 1.4 full-time for the rest of the night, and the 5d keeps the 24-105 for cool flash shots during the dances. Once you do enough of these and can track the "rhythm" of the event, you'll find time to change lenses - but even then you might miss some cool stuff while messing around with changes. Go simple and have fun... it'll be a whirlwind, but hopefully one you can enjoy.

Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 12:47
thanks v much for the tips :D! much apprecuated

TeeJay
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 13:26
Tobia, Just wanted to say good luck for Saturday!

Try not to get too nervous (leave that to the B&G!!) - as I say to couples; relax, and you will look back on it and wonder a) why you got so tense, and b) where the day went!

Enjoy the day. It will fly by!

TJ :-)

Tobiah
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 13:33
thanks :D

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 14:01
Hey, Tobiah - good luck. My word of advice after six years of wedding photography is to keep it simple. Don't get too bogged down with lens choices or you'll go crazy. The 70-200 is my main lens, and it stays on the Mark III till the reception. The 5D has the 24-105 for the wider shots in all situations, but I might throw on the 35 1.4 if lighting is dark and to throw the background out-of-focus for getting ready shots. I generally don't change this till the reception, when the 70-200 comes off the Mark III, and on goes the 35 1.4 full-time for the rest of the night, and the 5d keeps the 24-105 for cool flash shots during the dances. Once you do enough of these and can track the "rhythm" of the event, you'll find time to change lenses - but even then you might miss some cool stuff while messing around with changes. Go simple and have fun... it'll be a whirlwind, but hopefully one you can enjoy.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/LowLikeWhoa/wavey.gif Oh hai there, mk3 + 5d crew sign in! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/LowLikeWhoa/biggthumpup.gif

I keep 70-200 on mk3 and 24-70 on 5D, covers basically the whole focal range!

candjphoto
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 14:52
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/LowLikeWhoa/wavey.gif Oh hai there, mk3 + 5d crew sign in! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/LowLikeWhoa/biggthumpup.gif

I keep 70-200 on mk3 and 24-70 on 5D, covers basically the whole focal range!


Ah- and the 24-70 is something I've been thinking of for a while now... soon it just might be mine!

thelightofsound
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 16:22
you know the old saying about what happens when you ass-u-me?

in my experience (as the son of a priest and having spent a lot of time in churches behind the scenes), flash photography is not allowed because you are in a place of worship and it is distracting. i have never once been told or heard that flash is no long allowed because the last photographer popped his flash one too many times and ruined it for the rest of those who really know what they are doing.

judging by his work, i think tobiah has a pretty good idea of how to conduct himself as a professional.


but the few that don't allow photographers to use flash probably don't allow flash because at one point they experienced a photographer shooting flash rapid fire during the ceremony. Ruining it for the rest of the pros.

form
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 17:30
How horrible it must be to have such a large selection. I have three lenses and I only use two of them anymore: Tamron 28-75 and Sigma 10-20 (I never use the 50 f/1.8 II). The tamron is going on my new body to stay, and the Sigma on my old one. I'm not plagued with decisions here, though I might wish I was if the decision included an 85mm f/1.2 L II or 135mm f/2L.

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 18:03
You would be surprised!!

I was hired by a person that spoke of themselves as a pro to second shoot a wedding for him. The whole time during the ceremony the guy was RIIIIGHT UP FRONT in front of EVERYONE!! walking around, crouching down, crawling on the floor as the priest was speaking. Everyone noticed him. I was just standing back in amazement. At one point he was snapping rapid fire while the priest was speaking. (i will never forget this) The priest stopped talking and looked down at the guy STILL SNAPPING AWAY and laughed, and the whole audience laughed too. Stupid guy didn't even know that EVERYONE at teh church was laughing at him for being an idiot, he was still snapping away trying to get a shot!! ...

You never know... People who are new to certain things make mistakes.

You might be a great photographer yourself. But if I tell you to go shoot a hockey game without any advice you will probably get hit with a puck, stick, or worse....






you know the old saying about what happens when you ass-u-me?

in my experience (as the son of a priest and having spent a lot of time in churches behind the scenes), flash photography is not allowed because you are in a place of worship and it is distracting. i have never once been told or heard that flash is no long allowed because the last photographer popped his flash one too many times and ruined it for the rest of those who really know what they are doing.

judging by his work, i think tobiah has a pretty good idea of how to conduct himself as a professional.

thelightofsound
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 18:26
i hear ya. i'm sure you were trying to give helpful advice; i just get turned off by the whole "don't ruin it for the rest of us" routine. i hear it all the time and think it is a cop out. with concert shooters especially, they jump all over the kids who sneak their camera into a show with that same excuse. i just think it is pointless negative energy. i try to focus more on bettering my skills than making excuses and pointing fingers on why things may or may not happen.
i also think that no flash in churches has more to do with it being a place of worship, than what the previous photographer might have done.

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 18:50
i hear ya. i'm sure you were trying to give helpful advice; i just get turned off by the whole "don't ruin it for the rest of us" routine. i hear it all the time and think it is a cop out. with concert shooters especially, they jump all over the kids who sneak their camera into a show with that same excuse. i just think it is pointless negative energy. i try to focus more on bettering my skills than making excuses and pointing fingers on why things may or may not happen.
i also think that no flash in churches has more to do with it being a place of worship, than what the previous photographer might have done.


Well when you start doing more weddings you will eventually run into some pastors that have a HATRED for photographers.

You go up to politely introduce yourself and ask about using flash and they will snare at you and tell you plain out "I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU AT ALL DURING THE CEREMONY" or something similar. Some priests have a rotten attitude towards photographers at the get go. I know I'm not an a-hole or anything and I come off very polite/professional in-person. But I've experienced rude priests before, I've seen newbie photographers piss off priests first hand, and heard stories. Maybe it is not a novice photographer to blame, maybe it was a videographer? Just the other day there was a thread of a photographer complaining that a videographer was standing at the very front of the isle blocking the view for everyone. Maybe the priest didn't save 10% by switching to geiko. Who knows..

Yes few may not allow it because it is a place of worship, but there are billions of other places of worship that allow flash... dunno...


Either way, i was just trying to offer friendly helpful advice.

:D

Philco
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 19:09
I have to say I haven't mounted my 50 f1.4 since going FF over a year ago, not since I got an 85mm...I'll be surprised if you use it all day.

Not knowing the size of the venue, this is my best guess:

Getting Ready:

5D+ 85L
40D + 28-75 or 17-40

Ceremony

5D+ 28-75
40D+ 70-200

Reception

5D+85L
40D+17-40 @ 17mm

It's easy to be so in love w/ a lens that you want to use it, even when it's not an ideal choice. I stick to zooms for most ceremonies, just because things move so fast and I need the reach of 200mm.

SDJNJ
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 20:20
I use the 24-70 in small areas, the 100 macro for rings, and the rest of the time, the 70-200 IS. I like that lens because you don't have to be right on top of people to get a good shot. And, it's a very, very good lens. As Adaptive said, always check with the officiator about flash. That's a must! You'll be so busy, you won't be able to change lenses much. Stick with your best one for the situation. Do a pre-survey and attend the rehearsal. Hey, go with your creativity... you'll do great! Have fun and good luck!

Kaya75
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 23:22
Hey Tobiah - Good luck on Saturday man - just have fun - i've seen your work in the past and it rocks so youse defo got the skills that pay mate.

Just try to keep it simple- i only use the standard two - 24-70 and 70 - 200 2.8's no need for flash anywhere really.

Apart from the church mostly i'll be in the middle of the action with my 24 - 70 at about 35 - 50mm nice and crisp with shed loads of detail. mind a wide angle is a good choice and those primes are something else ;) you don't have to be in everyones face all the time (no offense meant SDJNJ just different styles of working) with short lens you notice a nice group / shot and you can go over take the shot a leave - one shot one kill - no worries. If i use long lens i can feel out of the action and rooted to one place so i kinda lose the atmosphere and get loads of shots from the same angle which can make for a boring set. But if you don't mind me judging you, you seem the type who's happy in the mist of the action anyway.

Here the best tips i ever got - get a good watch that doesn't beep! turn off your phone, and leave plenty of room for crops - it's unlikely you'll blow up wedding photos beyond 10x12 so you can crop down a bit at PP stage.

Also if you've got a requested shots list expect to do plenty of adhoc "additions" from family members n the day - this eats into your time so stand firm and get the requests in the bag as the priority. Sometimes you just have to say "we are running short on time at this location, but i'll try to get this shot for you at the next location.. blah blah.

oh yeah it's well hectic mate and you gotto check and recheck your iso's from inside to out if it's a nice day - you'll be shooting in bright conditions then dark then bright i know you know the score here but it's easy to forget esp when you've had about a hours sleep the night before!! :lol:.

You'll hit loads of images the first wedding you do so keep a check on those megabytes! i use 2x 4gigs with a spare 2gig that just kicks around incase. i found i'd fill up my cards no matter how many i took with me and all i ended up with was loads of duplicates of the same image and no social life for about a week trying to cut them down! drop a spare battery in and alls good.

Can't wait to see your take on a wedding - good luck :)

Adaptive
26th of June 2008 (Thu), 23:48
Here the best tips i ever got - get a good watch that doesn't beep! turn off your phone



:lol::lol::lol: Oh my god, this one time I was shooting the girls getting ready, there was 8 girls getting ready in this one tiny room.
Then all of a sudden this girly song starts playing and all the girls start looking around at each other asking "who's phone is that?"

Then I realized it was me and I turned bright ass read!!! :oops: dam custom ringtones.. :lol:
It was super embarrassing but everyone got a good laugh at my expense. :lol: :lol:
At least it didn't ring during the ceremony!!! Jeez that would have SUUUCKED! :oops:

drogos
27th of June 2008 (Fri), 11:12
1) Bride getting ready - thinking 5D with 85L and 40D with 135f2- nice and fast and destroy bits and bobs lying around in the background of shots...
Also thinking maybe change to the 50 f1.4 for a few of them on the 5d at times...


I would say 50 on 5D for tight preaparation rooms ..35 1.4 would be perfect to be honest and 85L on 40D . So you have both whole length and candid portraits covered



2) arriving at the church bride arriving... (i have a second shooter from this forum who will already be at the church) im thinking 5D with wide angle (want some nice church pics--- its a GREAT church with a nice path) and 40d with the 50 1.4 maybe?



40D with 85 so you don't have to "invade" their ceremony and you will probably want to consider 70-200 to get nice portraits of bride and groom



3) bride walking down the isle?
- i will chase ahead before she goes down to wait at the end. thinking 5d with 85f1.2 and the 135L on the 40D - not sure if i should use the 70-200 or not here (if the church is longer than i though i will use the 70-200 on 40d)
Might alternate on the 5D during the ceremony with 70-200 and 85L so i can get closeups (depending how far away i am might need the crop factor)
....
would like to have second shooter hold a flash as she first starts to walk down the aisle behind the bride and light her up with my radio triggers (any comments on this?)


Dependengly on lighting condition 5d might have issues with focusing with 85L...make sure to use center point only.

Above all don't get cought in 'lens change paranoia" ..you will loose to many good shots if You go that path. Been there did that. Prepare a plan on what lenses will be used in certain situtations and stick to it. Good luck. I am sure you will do great job

Tobiah
27th of June 2008 (Fri), 12:00
thanks for the tips....

im not AS keen on the 85L on the 40d cos the bokeh on the 5d destroys the same shot on the 40d...

drogos
27th of June 2008 (Fri), 15:36
thanks for the tips....

im not AS keen on the 85L on the 40d cos the bokeh on the 5d destroys the same shot on the 40d...
:) VERY TRUE but in a church the extra reach might be beneficial
Good luck again !!!

Tobiah
27th of June 2008 (Fri), 19:12
think its gonna be 70-200mm just found out that all official photogs have to stay at the back and none official photogs cant photograph during cermeony

u think would be ok to get her walking down the isle from the top then move to the back for the ceremony?

or just stay at the back maybe?

also would it be wise to get the annoucer to ask people to stay in their seats and get a staged first kiss shot from the front?

drogos
27th of June 2008 (Fri), 21:26
why you want to stage it??? you should be able to get close enough for 200mm and its stabilized so 1/125 maybe 1/160 is pretty safe. Make sure you will talk to the priest/pastor before the ceremony to be clear on you limitations. Also keep in mind that even if church is pretty strickt about you moving around they will still alow pretty much anything for procession and recession. I always stay in front of the altar ..somewhere on the side of the isle, kneeling down not to draw attention. I wait for the bride to come down, than I move to the side (if bridal party allows) to get the groom greeting the bride and than I usually back up to the back of the church. Make sure you know the rules and share them with the bride to keep her informed what you are going to do.

Tobiah
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 03:15
yes i will/ going to call the pastor at about 9.15am about doing that. being trying to call the pastor with no such luck.

Ryan W
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 11:18
How'd it go :D ?

Tobiah
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 18:45
absoluteley amazing!!! just got back! things went so fast and didnt get to do any formals with bride and groom as no time but they wanted to enjoy the do so that was fine...

i got sooo many good shots (by the lcd screen) so we shall see!
took about 18-20gbs worth so lots of work ahead...

i know i have at least 2-3 AMAMAMAMAMAZING shots which will help me quadruple my prices... they are going up RIGHT now

by the way my assistant Chris Rustage from the forum was AMAZING!!! helped out sooo much. Definately hope we can shoot together again. Hopefully soon 'll be earning enough to pay!

Tobiah
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 20:01
snaek preview... http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2618968083_0f1423b073.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/2619035903_73a71a54a1.jpg

no escape!

Adaptive
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 20:35
OUCH! You didn't get bride and groom formals?
They might not b!tch now but the day will come...

18-20 gigs? holy crap, sounds like the plan of the day was spray and pray!

Tobiah
28th of June 2008 (Sat), 20:40
not really i just didnt want to miss anything. the formals really wasnt my fault. i offered to go do some but they couldnt be bothered. (they wanted to hang with guests) - theyre perogative. i worked super quick and am surprised i pulled off ay strobist style shots at all.

thanks for looking

ChrisR
29th of June 2008 (Sun), 05:43
I just thought I'd say my little piece. I think you acted as a true professional throughout the entire day Tobiah. You were chatty, polite and quick to move things along. I honestly do believe that you have found your true calling and you should do everything in your power to move yourself along the path to becoming a full time wedding photographer.

With regards to spray and pray - I dont think that was Tobiah's attitude at all - however I do think that there were times when in reality we knew that the shots were in the bag, but we'd carry on regardless. I think the true aim was to shoot more than was needed to ensure a successful result.

Missed bride and groom is a nightmare, but the bride and groom were a super couple and I'm sure a re-shoot could be arranged for a staged bride and groom shot should it be required.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to 2nd shoot Tobiah. I found it hard, but really enjoyed it. I'd love to assist / 2nd shoot at your next wedding should the opportunity arise. With regards to me doing a wedding on my own - I think its something I would love to do and something I think technically I am capable of doing - however a few more 2nd shooter spots for experience will ensure a successful result of my own.

Ryan W
29th of June 2008 (Sun), 06:06
Pretty sweet man! Looks like you had an awesome day lol!

I've been looking forward to the results all yeaterday lol. So could you run through the set-up of that first shot, whilst you're downloading all those cards! lmao.

I'm sure the B&G will be very happy with what you've acheived! :D

Tobiah
29th of June 2008 (Sun), 08:30
view my flickr for the setupinfo... all very simple....

www.flickr.com/tobiahtayo

Ryan W
29th of June 2008 (Sun), 08:54
Just what I needed thanks!

Tobiah
29th of June 2008 (Sun), 09:37
glad i could help!