D30 is dead... now what?

[Cecil Walker]

My D30 died on Saturday while shooting a motorsports race. The symptoms are:

- When shutter button is pressed, shutter fires then the camera immediately powers off. Camera will not turn back on for quite some time, then when it does, it immediately shuts off when the shutter release is pressed.

- Was using a battery grip with two fresh batteries in it and a 1gb microdrive.

- Removed the battery grip and put a different battery in the camera after reattaching the door.

- Moved all dials and controls to make sure something wasn't stuck half-way.

- Tried different modes and settings.

- Tried different lenses.

It also has a separate, but possibly related problem that started several days before the complete system failure. Whenever I try to take flash photos (with either the onboard flash or a 550EX) the images come out black or severely under-exposed.

Any ideas on what could be causing it? If not, what's the best way to get it to Canon for repair (it's still under warranty)? I'd like to find the most expedient way to get it to them and get it back as I have a lot more events to shoot this month!

Thanks for any help you can provide,
Cecil

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Cecil,

I guess it depends where you're based. I'm in the UK. I found the address of Canon Service, sent the camera to them by Royal Mail Special Delivery (insured, of course) on Tuesday, got it back Friday. This was only a clean and recalibration, so clearly repairs could take longer, but it was very simple - no prebooking just included a cover note with serial numbers and copy of invoice to ensure free service in warranty period.

Check the Canon web site for where you live, the details for servicing should be on the site.

Regards,

[Pekka]

Cecil Walker wrote:
It also has a separate, but possibly related problem that started several days before the complete system failure. Whenever I try to take flash photos (with either the onboard flash or a 550EX) the images come out black or severely under-exposed.


That problem is related to shutter. My guess is that your shutter is dead.

[Cecil Walker]

Pekka wrote:

That problem is related to shutter. My guess is that your shutter is dead.



I think you're right! I just turned ~48K photos since I got it in mid-December 2001. I think it's just tired... ;)

Cecil

[KHogan]

Pekka wrote:

That problem is related to shutter. My guess is that your shutter is dead.



Pekka, this dead shutter problem, is it a common problem with digital cameras or rather a rare occurence? The thought that such an expensive camera can die so quickly is depressing. :(

Cecil, about your other problem, it might be a problem with the connections on the on/off switch. I've been having a similar problem with my camera and took it in to Canon last week. A technician there looked at it while I was there and showed me the problem. One thing you can check is to turn the camera on and see if just pushing on the on/off switch causes it to shut off. In any case, they are repairing my camera now and it will be 2-3 weeks they said (and Canon is just a drive up the street for me, so this doesn't include shipping times).

Hope you can get it solved. At least it's still under warranty. Maybe they'll give you a new one if your shutter is dead. :)

Kharim

[Cecil Walker]

Sent it off today. Took it down to C.R.I.S. ( a local authorized Canon repair center) and they shipped it off to Canon on the East Coast. Said it would probably be 2 to 4 weeks.

The upside is, it is suppose to come back thoroughly cleaned as well (if they don't send a new camera). It really could use it after the trip to Antelope Slot Canyon and Monument Valley. Way too much blowing/falling dust!

C.R.I.S. seemed to think it was something pretty serious and beyond their capability to repair...

Thanks for all your suggestions!
Cecil

[Pekka]

KHogan wrote:
Pekka, this dead shutter problem, is it a common problem with digital cameras or rather a rare occurence? The thought that such an expensive camera can die so quickly is depressing. :(


D30 is quaranteed for 20000 exposures, D60 is 45000 and 1D is for 150000

Can't say about compact digitals - chances are that they are more durable than most SLR's as SLR shutter is so much bigger/complicated and needs to be moved with more energy (to gain fps and max speed).

[Cecil Walker]

Pekka wrote:

D30 is quaranteed for 20000 exposures, D60 is 45000 and 1D is for 150000

Can't say about compact digitals - chances are that they are more durable than most SLR's as SLR shutter is so much bigger/complicated and needs to be moved with more energy (to gain fps and max speed).



Pekka,

Can you tell me where you found the life expectancy figures? I'd seen them before but couldn't find them when I was discussing this with a friend that owns two D30's.

Thanks,
Cecil

[Pekka]

I got them from Canon repairman, who got them from Canon Japan (internally). Only public figure I've seen is 1D's 150000.

[KHogan]

Pekka wrote:

D30 is quaranteed for 20000 exposures, D60 is 45000 and 1D is for 150000

Can't say about compact digitals - chances are that they are more durable than most SLR's as SLR shutter is so much bigger/complicated and needs to be moved with more energy (to gain fps and max speed).



Thanks Pekka! This is interesting information. I wonder how it compares with non-digital SLRs. This is something I've never considered before as I'd never heard about it.

Kharim

[mrchips]

From what I understand those numbers are not a guarantee but a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) for the shutter. I have heard of the 150,000 figure but my understanding speaking to a tech in the US was that you can expect the shutter on a D30 or D60 (they are identical) to last for 75,000 to 100,000 cycles.

[marqui]

Now this has got me irate.

Are you guys saying we have purchased expensive disposable cameras?

Well Sod that, this is not on.

Pekka! Fill me in. PLEASE!

Regards

Mark

[mrchips]

....and how long do you think a shutter on a 35 mm lasts?? if you took 50 pics a day every day of the year for 5 1/2 years you might break a D 60 shutter and at that point a 5 year old Digital camera is pretty much old technology as far as I am concerned. I'm not following what you expect from a shutter in a camera?

Denny

[Cecil Walker]

mrchips wrote:
....and how long do you think a shutter on a 35 mm lasts?? if you took 50 pics a day every day of the year for 5 1/2 years you might break a D 60 shutter and at that point a 5 year old Digital camera is pretty much old technology as far as I am concerned. I'm not following what you expect from a shutter in a camera?

Denny

Denny,

It get's worse when you look at it from a working perspective, or avid amateur. I shot 48,000 photos in 10 months, which works out to something like 163 shots a day (even though thousands happened over a weekend).

At 50 a day, it would be a little over a 2 1/2 years before the D60 was in the danger zone (18,250 shots) and not 5 1/2 years! Definitely 3 years max.

Upside is that warranty should cover it and when the warranty expires, I heard it's not a terribly expensive thing to replace (all things considered).

Cecil

[Pekka]

marqui wrote:
Now this has got me irate.

Are you guys saying we have purchased expensive disposable cameras?

Well Sod that, this is not on.

Pekka! Fill me in. PLEASE!


Well, I had to replace the shutter and in receipt it says

SHUTTER ASS'Y 67,09E
FPC, SHUTTER 42,09

(plus work, which was in my case 134 euros (2 hours) - they replaced bent flash shoe and cleaned CMOS, too.)

They said the D30 shutter is replaced with D60 shutter which lasts longer.

Whatever the cost, I hope no one starts missing shots because they fear the camera will break. No matter how expensive the camera its moveable parts will have to be replaced some day. And 300 euros (with tax) every 18-36 months is not much if you think how much the whole thing costs. Not much, but still quite annoying I must say.

[mrchips]

Cecil;

ok I partly buy that .......but are you shooting that much BECAUSE you are shooting digital or if you were using film would you be shooting that much. If you did shoot that much film in 10 months you are saving enough in processing alone to buy 3 D60's.

If you shooting that much because it's digital then we must look at the old saying I can't have my cake and eat it too. Just because a digital camera gives us the ability to shoot without the overhead of film and processing doesn't mean that we can shoot till we drop. We stll need to pay the price for this ability. And that price is in repairs to our cameras.

There was an excellent artice on this in Shutterbug 2 months ago, I will look for it and send a reply with a quote from the article.

Denny

[kraterz]

Well, quite a long time. My Olympus OM2n has been going strong for over two decades of regular shooting. My Nikkormat has been gong strong since 1967. No trouble with either, except the occasional CLA. They may be obsolete technology but they are still solid capable performers which can produce images rivaling the latest greatest 35mm SLRs.

mrchips wrote:
....and how long do you think a shutter on a 35 mm lasts?? if you took 50 pics a day every day of the year for 5 1/2 years you might break a D 60 shutter and at that point a 5 year old Digital camera is pretty much old technology as far as I am concerned. I'm not following what you expect from a shutter in a camera?

[mrchips]

and you took 48,000 pictures with it in 10 months. ????

[kraterz]

I am not a pro. I don't shoot 48K pictures in 10 months. However, I have seen F2's and F3's put through hell for many years and never give up. My Nikkormat has probably seen around 80K frames through it over the last 35 years.

[Cecil Walker]

mrchips wrote:
and you took 48,000 pictures with it in 10 months. ????

Yeah, sad isn't it!

I shoot a lot of motorsports events on the weekends... cars, motorcycles, karts. I try and get out to shoot other things like landscapes and nature as often as I can when not shooting at a track!

Here's my motorsports page:
ProMotionPhoto.com (http://www.ProMotionPhoto.com)

Here's my regular photo web site:
Cecil Walker Photography (http://www.cecilwalker.com)

Cheers
Cecil

[mrchips]

Cecil Walker wrote:
mrchips wrote:
and you took 48,000 pictures with it in 10 months. ????

Yeah, sad isn't it!

I shoot a lot of motorsports events on the weekends... cars, motorcycles, karts. I try and get out to shoot other things like landscapes and nature as often as I can when not shooting at a track!

Here's my motorsports page:
ProMotionPhoto.com (http://www.ProMotionPhoto.com)

Here's my regular photo web site:
Cecil Walker Photography (http://www.cecilwalker.com)


Cheers
Cecil



Hi Cecil,

Is this new since digital or did you shoot that much with film? I know I do quiet a bit of shooting all outdoors and I doubt I do 20k a year.
Denny

[Cecil Walker]

mrchips wrote:
Hi Cecil,

Is this new since digital or did you shoot that much with film? I know I do quiet a bit of shooting all outdoors and I doubt I do 20k a year.
Denny

I had a fairly new Minolta Maxxum 7 system and was shooting SCCA Solo II events (autocrossing). I was starting to really go into the hole on developing and printing. Also, my scans looked horrible! I dumped that entire system because Minolta severely lags Canon and Nikon on digital SLR's. Switched to Canon and I've been extremely happy!

I'm definitely shooting way more, even exponentially more because I'm shooting digital. I'm also able to shoot more "experimental" type shots and not worry about the cost. I just delete them if I don't like them and tuck the lesson away for the next shoot.

Branched out from just Solo II events to covering road racing and motorcycles (my true love).

Hope this helps!
Cecil