Ouch: Nikon just became the #1 DSLR maker [Archive] - Canon Digital Photography Forums

davidinjp

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 06:48

Plant McCloud

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:39

Well thank god, it's about time! In another thread about the D700 comments were made about Canon's competition nipping at Canon's butt cheeks. Well, it appears Canon has lost more than just a bit of butt flesh - more like both ass cheeks, a leg, and half an arm.

This will only make them better, change what some perceive as a sluggish complacency and make them more responsive to consumers. If nothing else has managed to wake up the Canon leadership, that stat sure will.

Plant McCloud

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:45

TheHoff

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:46

How will Canon save face over this 0.1%? hmmm...

hommedars

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:50

As a consumer, I fail to see the problem.

Roy Mathers

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:52

Nikon outsells Canon? Who cares?

TheHoff

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:53

Nikon outsells Canon? Who cares?

Not to overstate cultural stereotypes, but wouldn't this be seen as a loss of prestige in Japan?

Plant McCloud

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:53

How will Canon save face over this 0.1%? hmmm...

Do I detect a little sarcasm? Perhaps saving face over a small margin is, indeed. laughable. But on a larger scale, from what was once a (I believe) 70% market share?? That, I am sure you would agree, IS a loss of face!

Plant McCloud

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 07:54

Nikon outsells Canon? Who cares?

I, the consumer, do because I benefit from it!

Boucher

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 08:25

I'm not actually suprised.

but this will only make canon want to work harder to regain there position.

Plant McCloud

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 08:27

But then again, we DSLR users may be a little arrogant in our perceptions of our own self-importance. On the whole, we (DSLR) people are only 5 percent of the market. The big banana is the compact market.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Digital_Photography/Still_Cameras/B9X7X5G2

A self-comment about this post.

In this article, the Canon marketing manager states they sold 100,000 DSLR's last year. 100,000?? I would think that B&H sold that many alone to POTN users! I'm a little disbelieving of this, but do not know.

Wilt

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 09:00

A self-comment about this post.

In this article, the Canon marketing manager states they sold 100,000 DSLR's last year. 100,000?? I would think that B&H sold that many alone to POTN users! I'm a little disbelieving of this, but do not know.

Consider this...

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Canon Celebrates Production of 40 millionth EF lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-40-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx).

...The production date of the 40,000,000th EF lens is just over two years since the 30,000,000th EF Lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-30-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx) was manufactured and just over 1 year since the 30,000,000th EOS camera body (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-EOS-30-Millionth-SLR-Camera.aspx) was produced.

EOS line was launched in 1989 with the EOS 1. So 1989-2007 resulted in 30 million EOS bodies, or an average of 1.7 Million bodies per year.

primoz

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 09:02

Not to overstate cultural stereotypes, but wouldn't this be seen as a loss of prestige in Japan?
Probably, but that's even better for us. It was about time that they got at least serious competition, and getting beaten is even better. They might finally stop fooling with us, and do some proper work. Until now, they didn't have to, because no matter what they did, everyone else were so far behind, that Canon could easily afford this. Now it's our turn to get some profit out of competition ;)

AnthonyLin

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 12:55

Right Cranium Imaging

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 13:23

I'm sure Canon outsells the competition on P&S cameras, so they might not be too worried, yet. Although that 2nd article Plant McCloud linked to said that Canon surveyed 43% of people interested in a DSLR.

Im not sure if this would be true. I have 0 statistical data to back this up, but just based on what I see around I would guess neither Canon nor Nikon would lead in the P&S field. Again, just what I have seen, but tons of Kodak and Olympus and I have probably seen more Casio than any of them.

HyperYagami

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 13:30

MattMoore

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 13:32

This is just for Japan, correct? And only from a sample?

Around, I see WAY more Canon DSLRs (although they are mostly XTs and XTIs) than Noinks.

nicksan

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 20:59

Wow, I hope this doesn't affect my images...

davidinjp

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 21:35

This is just for Japan, correct? And only from a sample?

Around, I see WAY more Canon DSLRs (although they are mostly XTs and XTIs) than Noinks.

Ya, it is for the Japan market. I did not catch that on first read. Anyway, I'm still curious to know what the market share trend is globally. Hard to find reliable data online.

EORI

5th of July 2008 (Sat), 22:39

Japan's Asahi newspaper reports that Nikon assumed the #1 position in DSLR market share for the first 1/2 of 2008.

I would venture to guess that that is more a function of pent-up demand among Nikon-users finally being met with their latest camera bodies.

Considering that Nikon has traditionally been the SLR of choice among photogs in Japan, it's really more of a gradual return to the status quo.

As others have stated, competition is a great thing.

Roy Mathers

6th of July 2008 (Sun), 04:27

Wow, I hope this doesn't affect my images...

:D:D

mspringfield

6th of July 2008 (Sun), 06:39

Im not sure if this would be true. I have 0 statistical data to back this up, but just based on what I see around I would guess neither Canon nor Nikon would lead in the P&S field. Again, just what I have seen, but tons of Kodak and Olympus and I have probably seen more Casio than any of them.

I think you are probably right. I see tons of Sony and Panasonics too.

elader

6th of July 2008 (Sun), 08:07

no wonder my cameras don't work as well as they did last week.

Lowner

6th of July 2008 (Sun), 11:24

We, the consumers, will eventually see the benefit of this competition. It can only drive down prices and improve the product. How can we loose?

But I hope Casio doesn't win, I like their watches, but not much else.

Richard

Boucher

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 00:05

I don't see why people are talking about P&S cameras here.

Does the title not say #1 DSLR maker

JWright

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 01:36

Japan's Asahi newspaper reports that Nikon assumed the #1 position in DSLR market share for the first 1/2 of 2008. The gory details:

Nikon　　　　 40.7%
CANON　　　 40.6%
SONY　　　　 8.6%
Olympus 5.3%
Pentax 4.4%

The newspaper article referenced http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0703/TKY200807030479.html

Anyone happen to know how much of a swing in market share that is over the past year or two?

Whether it's for Japan or the entire world market, I'm sure not going to get upset over a lousy one tenth of one percent difference...

EOS line was launched in 1989 with the EOS 1. So 1989-2007 resulted in 30 million EOS bodies, or an average of 1.7 Million bodies per year.

Actually the first camera in the EOS series was the EOS 650 released in 1987...

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1986-1990/1987_eos650.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=eos

cdifoto

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 01:51

Hasselblad's still better.

cyrn

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 06:21

Consider this...

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Canon Celebrates Production of 40 millionth EF lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-40-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx).

...The production date of the 40,000,000th EF lens is just over two years since the 30,000,000th EF Lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-30-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx) was manufactured and just over 1 year since the 30,000,000th EOS camera body (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-EOS-30-Millionth-SLR-Camera.aspx) was produced.

EOS line was launched in 1989 with the EOS 1. So 1989-2007 resulted in 30 million EOS bodies, or an average of 1.7 Million bodies per year.

Not sure how many ended up like this tho..

http://paradoxoff.com/mass-destruction-of-the-canon-cameras.html

hommedars

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 10:19

Hasselblad's still better.

For what?

My John Deere is better than a Ferrari.....if I need to move dirt.

Roy Mathers

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 10:22

For what?

For everything!:D

narlus

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 10:51

no wonder my cameras don't work as well as they did last week.

one of mine is at Canon's Service Repair Center. :(

actually, Nikon's been kicking sand in Canon's face for the last 8 months or so now...i hope Canon starts kicking back.

bwolford

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 17:15

I'm not actually suprised.

but this will only make canon want to work harder to regain there position.

They may want to, but can they afford to. In a down economy these kinds of things could, potentially, not be affordable to recover and the company may not perceive a change in position like this as worthy of an investment.

I've seen lot's of computer companies (HW) lose market share and keep on sliding...

Boucher

7th of July 2008 (Mon), 23:39

They may want to, but can they afford to. In a down economy these kinds of things could, potentially, not be affordable to recover and the company may not perceive a change in position like this as worthy of an investment.

I've seen lot's of computer companies (HW) lose market share and keep on sliding...

That is true. Let's hope for the best.

Pruddock

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 00:15

Hey, we could benefit from this. Maybe they'll drop the prices back to at least what they were to try and spark a few more sales.

Another big thing is that Nikon just started doing a lot of television marketing and I rarely see a Canon commercial. I'm sure that doesn't help either... Just a few thoughts...

Tee Why

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 02:37

I think in the US Canon still leads in sales. I heard that Nikon overtook Canon in dslr sales in Japan a long time ago.
Here are some stats for the US from PopPhoto
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5340/best-selling-digital-slrs.html
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5279/top-selling-digital-slrs-for-march.html
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5342/best-selling-digital-compacts.html

Personally, I wish Oly/Panasonic, Pentax, and Sony and to a lesser degree Nikon gain more market share as competition from a diverse source will serve to deliver better products at a lower cost than just two giants fighting it out.

fubarhouse

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 02:56

The way I see it, logistically,

People only spend as much on their camera's as they care about their photography.
P&S = Cheap convenience, and the photos come out as good as they want.
DSLR = Customisability and ultimate control for a passionate photographer. Not a cheap hobby however.

But hey, I don't give a flying **** if Nikon outsell Canon, I don't see why anybody should care - except for Canon of course. I consider myself a loyal and happy customer - and that's the way it should be.

Honestly, I doubt that people who went to Nikon actually tried a Canon. Honestly, they feel natural and so much better, they have a better lens range, full support system, reliable, leading market competetor. What's the issue?

This isn't a...
These guys sell more, so they must be better. It's not a debate for anybody who see's it this way. Are you happy with your Canon? Why change?

I'm sorry this was aimed at people who actually care that Nikon outsold Canon by 0.1%

plonker

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 03:25

Exactly as you said fubarhouse. :)
I`m not a shareholder of nikon and canon so I don`t give a c**p about that.
I tried and used both, my heart wanted Nikon, but my wallet could afford only Canon.

EORI

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 05:34

Personally, I wish Oly/Panasonic, Pentax, and Sony and to a lesser degree Nikon gain more market share as competition from a diverse source will serve to deliver better products at a lower cost than just two giants fighting it out.

My thoughts exactly. I would love to see a DSLR version of the original Olympus OM-4Ti or Contax RTS III film cameras.

Rudeofus

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 07:35

Of course one's pictures don't get worse just because Nikon pulls ahead. What hurts, though is this: some of us have invested quite some money in Canon compatible lenses, and the price for these on the used market will go severely down if the market share of Canon falls behind. It's as simple as this: 3 years ago I had a hard time finding decent lenses on the used market, now the market is flooded with them.

It's like the housing crisis: your house doesn't get worse from falling housing prices, but some folks do have a problem now.

Roy Mathers

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 07:59

Boucher

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 08:12

Isn't that a good thing?

I think so.

Rudeofus

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 09:22

Isn't that a good thing?
If you need lenses, it's great. If you already have some lenses, it's less than good. Just look at all these whiners who scream at the top of their lungs that their EF50 F/1.4 is the best lens in existence and that the 100-400L can't be possibly beat, just because Sigma brought in some serious competition ....

Wilt

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 09:23

My thoughts exactly. I would love to see a DSLR version of the original Olympus OM-4Ti or Contax RTS III film cameras.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! :-P

Canon was a distant second to Nikon for decades, then finally managed to sneak past with the dSLR. Does anyone ever doubt that a company which dominated the pro SLR market for so long, would remain an underdog forever?! And does it really matter who trails whom, if the company's products provide what YOU NEED???

nicksan

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 09:36

Personally, I buy my gear to shoot photos.

Should I need to sell one of my lenses to finance another, and I don't get as much because of this supposed over-saturation of the used market, then so be it.

I doubt this would happen anytime soon.

Of course one's pictures don't get worse just because Nikon pulls ahead. What hurts, though is this: some of us have invested quite some money in Canon compatible lenses, and the price for these on the used market will go severely down if the market share of Canon falls behind. It's as simple as this: 3 years ago I had a hard time finding decent lenses on the used market, now the market is flooded with them.

It's like the housing crisis: your house doesn't get worse from falling housing prices, but some folks do have a problem now.

Dragos Jianu

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 11:27

Oh dear! *nervous foot tapping* This is bound to affect the Image Quality of my 5D and 20D any minute now...*covers their ears affectionately so as not to hear the dreadful news* :)

Roy Mathers

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 11:34

I know English isn't your first language, but I love the idea of your covering your ears 'affectionately':D

Dragos Jianu

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 12:45

I know English isn't your first language, but I love the idea of your covering your ears 'affectionately':D

i was referring to the camera's, not my own :p

Roy Mathers

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 12:58

Oh, I see! Sorry!

mladams

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 15:06

I can definitely see both sides of the equation. On one hand it in no way effects the quality of the equipment I am using right now, and in no way am I going to change sides, but for me it's somewhat of a pride issue. I like knowing that the manufacturer I chose has the best reputation and best stats around. But in the long run it's only 0.1% in a market that's not even our own. And working as a salesman of DSLR's, I notice most of the Nikon's are purchased by those who have never owned an SLR before, and my return customers always chose canon.

Roy Mathers

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 15:18

But don't forget that being top of the table has nothing necessarily with reputation or quality. Amy Winehouse, for instance, may be top of the pop charts, whereas Beethoven never is - but has Winehouse a better reputation or is she of higher quality?:D

Rubi Jane

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 15:20

The 1.7MM bodies per year is likely a global brand figure, the 100,000 bodies quoted by Chris MacLeod (Brand Manager in Australia) is likely an Australasia figure.

Bottom line, market share to corporations is an ultimate measurement of brand health. Canon has lost share from the growth and strengthening Nikon brand. Kudos to Nikon! I'd expect Canon to look at it's offerings in DSLR bodies and step up to be a stronger competitor to Nikon. If they don't, they will undoubtably continue to lose market share. DSLRs are a very small component of Canon's product line-up, how much attention they pay to it will be interesting to see.

Consider this...

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Canon Celebrates Production of 40 millionth EF lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-40-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx).

...The production date of the 40,000,000th EF lens is just over two years since the 30,000,000th EF Lens (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-30-Millionth-EF-Lens.aspx) was manufactured and just over 1 year since the 30,000,000th EOS camera body (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/Canon-EOS-30-Millionth-SLR-Camera.aspx) was produced.

EOS line was launched in 1989 with the EOS 1. So 1989-2007 resulted in 30 million EOS bodies, or an average of 1.7 Million bodies per year.

cyrn

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 16:09

And working as a salesman of DSLR's, I notice most of the Nikon's are purchased by those who have never owned an SLR before, and my return customers always chose canon.

It could be due to Nikon's way of marketing and their product design. They tend to market for eg.. D700 a cam that shoots at 8fps (but in small prints mention only with batt grip attached) or their 14 bits processing, it really slows down the D300 and the D700. This is a real turn off, especially if I'm the first time buyer without experience.

rdenney

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 16:26

Isn't that a good thing?

Yes. The price of Canon lenses on the used market is ridiculous, often matching the new price from discounters.

Nikon has been a premium manufacturer for decades, making outstanding stuff. Canon has been more broad-banded, making cameras at a wider range of price points, though their high-end stuff was similarly excellent. It was Canon that brought out the Rebel and moved the SLR into plain consumer territory, and Canon has always shown the better corporate strategy, it seems to me. I think of Canon as a savvy multinational corporation that happens to make excellent cameras, and Nikon as a dedicated camera manufacturer. As companies, Canon's vastness completely dwarfs Nikon. But Nikon has been more focused and has always managed to capture the high-end SLR market, especially among pro photojournalists, until the last few years. I don't think it was the DSLR's that gave Canon the edge, but rather it was the L-series fast telephotos using special glasses and, later, IS. Canon has been a real leader in image stabilization and autofocus from their pro video cameras. Others are now catching up as the rate of advancement tapers off.

Canon users have always had an inferiority complex about Nikon, it seems to me. Let's get over it. Nikon stuff is excellent. Canon stuff is excellent. I prefer the Canon user interface, and I always have, but that is a preference. I hate it when my wife hands me her Nikon and asks me to make something work that she can't figure out--it never seems to make as much sense to me as my Canons.

By the way, I have owned Canon professional cameras since 1972--I have an original F-1, a TX, and a T-90 in the FD mount. And, yes, in those days, we F-1 owners were always on the defensive with our mates who were using their (much more expensive) Nikon F's, FTn's, and F-2 Photomics. And the arguments had no more basis then than now.

Rick "who'd rather spend the $3000 difference in price between a D3 and a 5D on lenses" Denney

scorpio_e

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 16:29

This will keep Canon on its toes;)

Dragos Jianu

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 16:58

I'm starting to think Canon made the right call.
Nikon put up a show (D3 and D300) and a rather desperate bluff (D700 - they basically sacrificed the D3 - a big risk/sacrifice business-wise). In their attempt to build image they completely neglected the entry level market (the D80 is outdated, the D60 is less of an upgrade to the D40X then the 30D was to the 20D).
Now, Canon had 2 main choices :
1) either pick up the gauntlet and enter the pissing contest on the pro market (which is rather plastic in nature - people with big investments in one system don't switch overnight) or
2) take their time on the high-end segment while ceasing the opportunity to strike Nikon at it's weakest link (the weak, outdated entry-level segment).

Apparently they choose the latter. And they did it in style : 1000D, 450D, 40D, 5D (after the price cuts) - cheap, great and miles ahead of Nikon's D40/D60/D80 offering. After all it was the D40 which brought Nikon back in the game in terms of market shares, not the D300-D3. And I doubt Nikon has the muscle power to counteract that in timely fashion after the huge D3/D700/D300 effort.

Canon just announced their intention of opening another production plant in Japan, with a 4million units/year capacity which should be fully functional by the end of 2009. I have a feeling they have some rather big plans for it :)

Right now they are taking back the entry-level segment from Nikon. Smart move on the long run if you ask me. That segment is the major cash cow and building on it was a shrewd move, especially given the heavy fire they've been under from both Nikon and the "lil ones" (Oly, Pentax, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic)
I'm confident they have more then enough muscle power to answer the D3/D700/D300 soon.

In the meanwhile we have some very affordable, wonderful cameras to play with while Canon cooks up revenge :)

Wilt

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 16:58

IAnd working as a salesman of DSLR's, I notice most of the Nikon's are purchased by those who have never owned an SLR before, and my return customers always chose canon.

Interesting that Nikon users have very extensive inventories of Nikon lenses and they continue to hold onto these because of the considerable investments amassed over many, many years, and their patience in waiting for a worthy candidate (D300, D3) to rival Canon's offerings has come along. That is loyalty!

EORI

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 17:16

Canon users have always had an inferiority complex about Nikon, it seems to me. Let's get over it. Nikon stuff is excellent. Canon stuff is excellent. I prefer the Canon user interface, and I always have, but that is a preference. I hate it when my wife hands me her Nikon and asks me to make something work that she can't figure out--it never seems to make as much sense to me as my Canons.

By the way, I have owned Canon professional cameras since 1972--I have an original F-1, a TX, and a T-90 in the FD mount. And, yes, in those days, we F-1 owners were always on the defensive with our mates who were using their (much more expensive) Nikon F's, FTn's, and F-2 Photomics. And the arguments had no more basis then than now.

I absolutely agree about the quality of both brands, and the traditional inferiority complex among Canon owners. These last several years of DSLR dominance have presumably given long-time Canon users confidence and bragging rights, while first-time SLR/DSLR users have never had their psyche damaged by being exposed to that myth. Canon has come a long way.

As for preferences, I too like the Canon ergonomics in general, with the exception of the Nikon shutter release, which I prefer for its better sensitivity.

I feel that Canon's strengths and advantages have been based upon their diverse expertise on the electrical side of the electro-optical coin. Novel features such as image stabilization, eye-focus, 45 autofocus zones, automated depth-of-field function, and a proprietary full-frame image sensor with superior noise suppression, to name several.

I'm frankly pleased that Nikon (or anyone for that matter) is giving Canon a run for the money. It eliminates complacency, encourages innovation, allows for greater choices (notwithstanding my 30 year allegiance to Canon), and places downward pressure on prices.

joshbroton

8th of July 2008 (Tue), 17:39

Guess this proves that a majority of people in this world are dumb... :)

haisai-ojisan

9th of July 2008 (Wed), 01:17

Don't think it was mentioned but the article is for DSLRs only and covers from January-June 2008. We'll see what the second half of the year brings.

I don't necessarily keep up with the market but don't these two companies go back and forth from 1st to 2nd?
Personally, I like Nikon cameras....but I love Canon cameras! Not that shooting with the other would make my photos better; but just a ****ty shooter either way.