A Question for you guys

[Penguin_101_1]

When I bring my camera out and take pics (like in a resturant or mall) people look at me like "what?". This kind of makes me want to put it away and not take pictures where people are. Do you ever get that "why is he taking pictures" look and how do you get over it?

[CyberDyneSystems]

This is why I like birds..... ;)

[Pugdaddy]

...and powerful zoom lens'

[Belmondo]

I use an empathetic approach to the subject. I think about where I am, what I'm doing, and when it's obviouswhether or not I'd want some stranger taking my picture at that moment. If it's something like a sporting event or other public venue where there are lots of people, I don't have a problem with it, nor do I expect anyone else to. In fact, I can't recall anyone ever taking exception to me pointing a camera in their direction.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd be very thrilled about someone photographing me in, say, a restaurant or out for a walk with my wife.

I guess it boils down to the reasonable man approach.

[mikesd]

Agree with belmondo, unless someone can fill me in on how to be discreet with a 10D+grip+lens. I hate that look!

[neil_r]

I just ignore it


N

[Belmondo]

Somewhat off topic, but I discovered a couple kids using a cell phone camera in the men's room at the local mall. I must've given them enough of a dirty look that they got out of there very quickly.

[IndyJeff]

Somewhat off topic, but I discovered a couple kids using a cell phone camera in the men's room at the local mall. I must've given them enough of a dirty look that they got out of there very quickly.


Package shots for the magazine Gay Man Living?

[Penguin_101_1]

I am not taking pictures of people. I am talking about more of these shots: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52670(mall) and http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52352&highlight=market. I was in a Chinese place yesterday and they had a chocolate fountain and chefs cooking. Shots like those. Most of the time I don't want people in the pics I take. :lol:

Another of the mall:
http://tinypic.com/17rc76
(I know the guy who designed the mall and I am sending it to him)

[Steven M. Anthony]

Package shots for the magazine Gay Man Living?

Very crude and very unfunny, Jeff.

[ohenry]

Question for you....why do you care what they're thinking? Unless you're taking pictures of them, whatever they think of you is irrelevant.

[sGu]

I just ignore it

Ditto ...

Unless it's some fine looking girls request to have their photo taken ;)

[Pekka]

Penguin,

Be careful about shooting in malls. That's a good way to get security upset. I've shot fashion in malls but every time -- except once-- I called security first. I was shooting in front the storefront of a jewelry store that had been robbed only a month before. The shoot was a joint clothier-jewelry store ad and I assumed that the jewelry store would call security, but they didn't. The security guys were REAL unhappy about it, and they put me AND the model in their car and drove off with us to their awful little room where their water cooler was and grilled me and the girl.

Can't believe this can happen in civilized country. Here in Finland security guards can only hold you while the police arrives (if needed), they do not have rights to take you to another location for interrogration! Sounds like Russia.

There a laws in every country which say where you can shoot without permission and where you can not shoot anything without permission. Here the main rule is that private properties and closed events needs a permission from owner or represetantive. Of course there is often debate about what a private property means in some borderline cases: if situation is not absolutely clear then it is only polite to ask permission. Other than that I can shoot anything and anyone as much as I like - of course interacting and communicating with people as is any social happening - either with eye contact and small gestures or small talk. Communicating with people is one of the reasons I shoot so I take it more as fun as a neccessity.

[Penguin_101_1]

Penguin,

Be careful about shooting in malls. That's a good way to get security upset. I've shot fashion in malls but every time -- except once-- I called security first. I was shooting in front the storefront of a jewelry store that had been robbed only a month before. The shoot was a joint clothier-jewelry store ad and I assumed that the jewelry store would call security, but they didn't. The security guys were REAL unhappy about it, and they put me AND the model in their car and drove off with us to their awful little room where their water cooler was and grilled me and the girl.

WHO DO YOU TWO THINK YOU ARE? DO YOU KNOW WE CAN HAVE THE PO-LICE COME FOR YOU? YOU GOT CREDENTIALS? WHAT AGENCY? NEVER HEARD OF THAT. SOUNDS LIKE A CAR DEALERSHIP. blah blah blah

It turned out that security was a little sore over the fact that their guy wasn't where he was supposed to be at the time of the robbery, and they wanted to show that they could respond FAST. ALL OF THEM. Eight burly guys, a wimpy-looking photographer and a drop-dead gorgeous girl (alright, she was cute.okay, okay, she didn't have any tattoos) crammed into that tiny room...


That is 100% illegal. You had every right to not go with them, call the police and your lawyer. Security has no power except to stop people stealing and calling the police.


--

I don't shoot in malls a lot, and I won't after this. Unless it says "no cameras" I will still bring them in and the only thing they can have me do it turn it off (which I would). I am *pretty* sure they have no legal action. It also bothers me that they spend $xx million of tax payer dollars and I can not take pictures. But, lets not get into that, that is another place, another time.

[tim]

I was taking photos at a fire last night. I'd have liked to get a full frame photo of a fireman in full gear (gas masks etc), with flash, but I was kinda scared (not scared, can't think of a better word though) what their reaction might be. Of course I didn't get in their way.

[Penguin_101_1]

I was taking photos at a fire last night. I'd have liked to get a full frame photo of a fireman in full gear (gas masks etc), with flash, but I was kinda scared (not scared, can't think of a better word though) what their reaction might be. Of course I didn't get in their way.
My guess is that they would say "don't do that" and go back.

[Scottes]

It also bothers me that they spend $xx million of tax payer dollars and I can not take pictures. But a mall is private property. What does this have to do with taxes and/or the government?

[sdommin]

That is 100% illegal. You had every right to not go with them, call the police and your lawyer. Security has no power except to stop people stealing and calling the police.

I agree. Regular "security guys" have no right to take you to some room against your will and grill you. That's kidnapping (no kidding).

They can call the police and/or tell you to leave the mall. That's it.

[Penguin_101_1]

But a mall is private property. What does this have to do with taxes and/or the government?
Around here the city helps pay for the malls.

[IndyJeff]

I agree. Regular "security guys" have no right to take you to some room against your will and grill you. That's kidnapping (no kidding).

They can call the police and/or tell you to leave the mall. That's it.

So if your shoplifting your saying they can't do anything but call the cops and you can just drop the merchandise and run out the door? Bwhahahahahaha

A lot of security guys may have special deputy powers and yes they can detain you until authorities arrive. It is not kidnapping as you are on private property and they are charged with enforcing the laws/rules of that property. The reason for getting you off to a private room is just that...privacy. They don't want to be asking you questions and having a scene out in the middle of the mall.

If you resist them and try to escape this will only work against you when the real cops show up. They will want to know why your trying to escape, what do you have to hide.

I agree that it may have been a liitle over the top to drag someone off to a secluded room and giving them the 3rd degree. Explaining that you were only photographing your model should have gotten a "Well don't do it in here" response and you should have been released. Remember, if your on private property, such as a mall, they have a right to control the images of that property. They own it, you don't.
Then again if you clam up and refuse to answer any questions until you can contact your attorney they might backoff. Just answer every question with, "my attorney will address that, may I call him now?" Of course they may get frustrated and beat you with a rubber hose or a sock with a bar of soap in it.

[Penguin_101_1]

They still have no right to detain you for photographing unless you still do it. No mall I have been to has givin be a list of rules at the door. Stealing is way diffrent.

[Steven M. Anthony]

Around here the city helps pay for the malls.

But that is because the mall ends up making money for the city...

And most malls have a set of terms that you, by entering the mall, agree to. One of those terms usually spells out the authority you, by entering the mall, grant security personnel.

Many of the terms are selectively enforced--they are there to keep some creep from taking pictures of all the little kids... or one retailer from photographing another's selection of products, displays, etc. (this is where palm-cameras work out great!).

[IndyJeff]

They still have no right to detain you for photographing unless you still do it. No mall I have been to has givin be a list of rules at the door. Stealing is way diffrent.


Penguin if I were a mall cop, I would beat you with a bar of soap in a sock as soon as you walked in. LOL

[perfectpixel]

Penguin,
I can relate to you! I feel exactly the same way.
Read somewhere that photographers were "professional noticers". You and I are out in the world. We notice things that would make a good shot (maybe) but somehow feel restrained from taking that step. I try to smile and not look like a perv but I still don't do it much.
It might be a reflection of how I would feel if the situation was reversed.
I have a good friend on the otherhand who has no hangups. Takes the shot, maybe chit chats with the subject and takes more. It does not hurt that she is a she. I think people feel less threatened by a she.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not shy. But this is a real problem. I am afraid if I don't reconcile this it will have a severe impact on my future as a photog.
If you find a magic potion, send me the formula :)
(Oh, and it's A LOT harder to blend in with a white lens. TG my pocket book cant support those!)

[Pugdaddy]

Here's something I was wondering about. What if you take pics with some strangers in it and you sell the photo without getting their permission? Can you be sued? I see people blurred out on TV all the time. I figured the station wasn't given permission by the individual so they can't legally show them.

[perfectpixel]

Here's something I was wondering about. What if you take pics with some strangers in it and you sell the photo without getting their permission? Can you be sued? I see people blurred out on TV all the time. I figured the station wasn't given permission by the individual so they can't legally show them.

YES! there's lots of rules about model releases etc. Basically you cannot benefit financially from someone else's image without their concent.

[Steven M. Anthony]

YES! there's lots of rules about model releases etc. Basically you cannot benefit financially from someone else's image without their concent.

This is so not true.

You can sell a photo as art without a model release. A photo should not be used for commercial purposes (art is NOT considered a commercial purpose) without a release because the person in the photo could sue. If you make it clear to, say, an ad agency that you do NOT have a release (and, for your own protection, get them to sign off on it (not that any would)), and they get sued for using it, you are not at risk.

This happened to me over a property release. A company bought some of my images--one of a recognizable building in town. I told them I had no property release for that particular shot. They said they didn't care. I had them sign a statement acknowledging that I told them there was no release for the image. They signed it. They used the photo "for commercial purposes," in a brochure. They were sued by the owner of the building. Their lawyers contacted me. I sent them a copy of the signed statement. I never heard from them again.

[DeeplyDigital]

Penguin, just go out and shoot. There is nothing like the regret of a missed shot.
Best to shoot with a short-ish black lens.
I take my camera almost anywhere and frequently take photos of my food in restaurants.
I have yet to ask the chefs if I can take photos of them working. When I do, I'll keep it down
to a minimum of time and maybe three different shots, but I'll be cute and friendly...

J.

[Penguin_101_1]

Penguin if I were a mall cop, I would beat you with a bar of soap in a sock as soon as you walked in. LOL
Then I could afford a lot of white lenses. Where are the smilies?

[sdommin]

So if your shoplifting your saying they can't do anything but call the cops and you can just drop the merchandise and run out the door? Bwhahahahahaha

A lot of security guys may have special deputy powers and yes they can detain you until authorities arrive. It is not kidnapping as you are on private property and they are charged with enforcing the laws/rules of that property. The reason for getting you off to a private room is just that...privacy. They don't want to be asking you questions and having a scene out in the middle of the mall.

Security people can detain you if you have committed a crime, like shoplifting. Photographing in a mall is not a crime, no matter what the guys with "special deputy powers" say. The fact that you're on private property doesn't matter one bit.

You might want to check this out:
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

[perfectpixel]

.... but I'll be cute and friendly...

Well, I can be friendly, but am genetically prevented from the cute part :)

[Longwatcher]

The only time I get dirty looks is when I set up with my long lens at a local beach (no it is not a nude beach), But I also get a lot of compliments and looki-loos. I suspect the long white lenses of causing this. On the other hand I am fairly and blatantly obvious. On a hill with a tripod and a long white lens and a camera bag with more long white and black lenses.

I have even taken pictures in a casino or two (Sienna in Reno and Monte Carlo in Vegas)
The first was with the permission of security since I wanted a few of the gaming floor with flash, the second was just family pictures in the reception area. No problem with either.

I haven't tried inside a mall yet, but very few ever strike me a photogenic. I have caught some outsides though.

And lastly, although I haven't noticed one in my area. What do they do if the camera store is in the mall. Reminds me of the shopping center with prominant signs saying no bicycles allowed on the property and they had a bicycle dealer in the center (like how do I get my bike from there to home). I ignored those signs since at the time I used my bike to go shopping with (large basket on back, great for daily groceries). I suspect they humored me.

[Steven M. Anthony]

"(like how do I get my bike from there to home)"

Didn't you notice that guy just kept selling the same bike over and over...?