Are photocopied contracts legal?

[CanonLaw]

I was just wondering if they were. In the past I have taken the contract, scanned it, and kept the paper copy as well. In an effort to go somewhat paperless, I was thinking of digitizing all my contracts in PDF form and uploading them to my web server. I had been doing this already in the event my house burns down or something, but when I reprint it out, is it legal?

It seems to me it should be, but I just wanted to make sure before I start shredding my old contracts.

Thanks!

[sapearl]

Well Canonlaw, I've always assumed a signed contract, photocopied or original, was a binding legal document.

For every wedding or social event I shoot, I sign the original, have the client sign next to mine name, I keep the original and scan a copy for them. My thought is that I am bound by both. They would also have legal recourse if I failed to perform according to the terms of the original or photocopied contract. - Stu

[CanonLaw]

Well Canonlaw, I've always assumed a signed contract, photocopied or original, was a binding legal document.

For every wedding or social event I shoot, I sign the original, have the client sign next to mine name, I keep the original and scan a copy for them. My thought is that I am bound by both. They would also have legal recourse if I failed to perform according to the terms of the original or photocopied contract. - Stu

Thanks for the input. Kinda what I was thinking.

[sapearl]

Of course, I'm no attorney... just an engineer/photographer.... so hopefully wiser folks than I will chime in soon ;).

Thanks for the input. Kinda what I was thinking.

[sandpiper]

I'm no lawyer, but I would have thought it more likely to stand up in court if there is an original signature on the document. It is very easy to photocopy a document with a pasted on signature, which would be hard to spot. Therefore if someone contests it .....

Just my thought, I am happier with an original signature just in case.

My legal advice however, is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Pinto]

I believe if you have to appear in court that the only presentable documents are originals, so you better hang on to them.

[cdifoto]

Well you gotta have your source located somewhere. Whether it's a doc, pdf, handwritten note, or crayola scribble, doesn't really matter.

As far as copies go, I print out one for each member involved and just have them sign each one, and do so myself. No one has complained so far and since my office is the local coffee shop, it gives everyone a copy already signed and dated with inky signatures to walk out the door with in hand. Peace of mind all the way around.

[amfoto1]

Okay, I'm not an attorney either.... But I did work in real estate for quite a few years, as well as other businesses that used legal agreements... and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last nite.

It was drummed into us that only the original signature and document could be expected to hold up in court, if it ever came to that. Often faxes were used in real estate transactions for speed and efficiency in back and forth negotiations. But all those documents needed to be re-signed later before the deal could close. A copy should only be used in court if necessary, and was far more open to challenge.

Oh, and we also only used blue pens.

I was talking with a friend last evening who has run into a problem with copied documents... in particular her birth certificate. She's trying to have shares of a mining stock that she inherited some years ago but just recently found out about transfered over to her. Her grandfather bought them when they were literally penny stocks and no one knew suspected were diamonds in Canada! At this point, she can't even find out how many shares of stock are involved (probably a lot, because her grandfather invested in a number of other penny stocks, too), because the company and courts won't accept her birth certificate due to it being a copy of a copy that's barely legible, and no original has been found so far.

[cdifoto]

You can get original birth certificates from your state capitol's department of vital records. I had to get one for my passport application in April.

[CanonLaw]

You can get original birth certificates from your state capitol's department of vital records. I had to get one for my passport application in April.

Unless you were born in Louisiana, as was my mom. The building that held her birth certificate was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina :(

[tomd]

I'm not an attorney, but I took a Intro to Bus. law course 22 years ago.

I'd suggest keeping contracts for a year or two after the event. Then shred them, and retain digital copies.

Tom

[CanonLaw]

Okay, I'm not an attorney either.... But I did work in real estate for quite a few years, as well as other businesses that used legal agreements... and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last nite.


HAHA! I will take your advice above all others only because you stayed in a Holiday Inn last night.

Well, it seems that I probably should just hang on to the original, plus a scanned copy. Until the Attorney General of Washington State tells me I don't need to keep it, I think I will just do it.

Thanks for the input!

[cdifoto]

Unless you were born in Louisiana, as was my mom. The building that held her birth certificate was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina :(
Mine was printed on-demand. Well not quite on-demand. I had to kill an hour.

[CanonLaw]

Mine was printed on-demand. Well not quite on-demand. I had to kill an hour.

Were you born in Louisiana?

[cdifoto]

Were you born in Louisiana?
Oh yeah I forgot. Louisiana doesn't have technology.

[Tumeg]

I'm no lawyer, but I would have thought it more likely to stand up in court if there is an original signature on the document. It is very easy to photocopy a document with a pasted on signature, which would be hard to spot. Therefore if someone contests it .....

Just my thought, I am happier with an original signature just in case.

My legal advice however, is worth exactly what you paid for it.


Good point! I never thought about that...
+1

[DocFrankenstein]

I keep having to do copies of contracts and certificates.

They have to be notarized to hold up. You bring the original to a lawyer and for a modest fee of 50 bucks he'll throw it on the photocopier and will stamp and sign that it indeed a true copy.

[Pinto]

I keep having to do copies of contracts and certificates.

They have to be notarized to hold up. You bring the original to a lawyer and for a modest fee of 50 bucks he'll throw it on the photocopier and will stamp and sign that it indeed a true copy.

That makes sense, and a notary would be a lot less expensive.
But you'd obviously have to have the original document on file, so it looks like there's no avoiding it.

[sapearl]

All of this really falls under the umbrella of "records retention." Businesses and corporations typically follow a Records Retention Schedule which instructs them in proper storage and disposal of official documents.

One schedule I googled indicates 10 years "after termination" for typical ORIGINAL contracts.

[jgrussell]

when I reprint it out, is it legal?You betcha. The federal courts (and virtually every state has a similar rule to the federal rule) follow a rule of evidence which provides that: "A duplicate is admissible to the same extent as an original unless (1) a genuine question is raised as to the authenticity of the original or (2) in the circumstances it would be unfair to admit the duplicate in lieu of the original." (Fed. R. Evid. 1003). So the duplicate would be admissible in court (with your testimony as to what happened to the original).

However (and here speaks the law professor): it ain't a smart thing. Why invite a challenge based on authenticity or the circumstances? Keep the original until you've been paid in full. Then digitize it.

[aram535]

I believe if you use something like a PDF that is written to a read-only media than it is valid. I have helped many organizations with reduction of paper, scanning and moving all of their cabinets to WORM drives.

The only extra bit they did was digitally sign the PDFs. Not sure what the cost of that is, but its worth looking into.

[amfoto1]

You can get original birth certificates from your state capitol's department of vital records. I had to get one for my passport application in April.


We're highjacking a little bit here, but...

Yes, that was the very first stop my friend made. That's where she got the copy of a copy. But to make matters worse, the state of California has two different birth certificates on file for her.

It's a longer story.... But basically her real father is her mother's first husband. By the time she was born her parents were divorced, mom was remarried to her step father and the hospital issued an incorrect birht certificate under her step father's name.

Later her mother attempted to correct this but more mistakes were made and the originals of both documents appear to have been lost. Both certificates are now only on file as those old "negative" style photo copies, and are not very legible.

Even worse, for some reason someone at the records office decided to strike a large X through the correct certificate!

It's a real mess, there are no immediate relatives still alive who can attest to what's correct and the courts in Canada are refusing to accept the copies of copies as valid proof of identity.

My friend is a bone cancer survivor/amputee, can't drive and is in a motorized wheelchair full time, so it's difficult for her to get herself around to track down information and pound on record clerk's desks.

She has found a firm that specializes in recovering inheritances like this and is working with them. But, it will cost her 35% of whatever is recovered, if anything. Years ago she already received some other, similar inheritances from her grandfather, through her mother, but they were all holdings in US companies, not Canadian.

Just goes to show how important original documents can be, I suppose.