No professional cameras allowed????

[cactusjak]

My daughter was told by the photog that there would not be any "professional" cameras or equipment allowed at the ceremony. Its a package deal in Fl. I thought even a P&S in the right hands could make a professional picture and that because I have a 30D with a 70-200 2.8 does not make me a professional. Guess we'll see what happens. Is this a common statement form "professional" photogs, if so I'm not sure I want to get into this line of work.

[TheHoff]

I've seen that mentioned in another thread here; personally, I'd find another photographer. The photographer is my employee, I'll determine what is or isn't allowed at my wedding. They aren't paying for an exclusive contract to shoot my event.

Unless you're hiring a very high-end name photographer who is really in demand, I'd bet there are others in the area equally as good who would like to take this job without such limits. Especially if it is a "package" deal, shouldn't everything, like prints from the ceremony, be included already?

[sam0329]

LOL, I heard about it but I will never make a statement like this. Everyone have their freedom to do what they want. Most of the time my clients family will take photos but when they know who is the "official" photographer than they will show some kind of respect but I do mention to my clients I will expect nobody will block my way just like I don't stay in front of anyone. ;)

[grissomchick23]

Lots of people have this in their contract, but don't really enforce it. Personally, as long as the other folks there have respect for the fact that there is paid shooter for the event and not to get in the way of their job, there really shouldn't be an issue - regardless what skill level over gear the family/ friends bring. The bride has already seen the paid shooter's port and know what she's getting. It's ridiculous for a photog to feel threatened by another photographer shooting the same event. They've already got the job. And if they really do suck, then a good wake up call never hurt anybody.
On the flip side, and the only reason I see having such as rule, is when the family/ friends start ruining the paid shooter's shots. I've done a wedding where a family friend brought her professional gear and flashes to the wedding. The only problem I had was that she was taking SO many pictures (with the flash) it was actually jacking up the pictures I was taking. I took me a minute to figure out why my settings would work for one shot and then TOTALLY suck for other shots... and it was because I would chimp and see the pictures that had her flash in it and then erroneously change my settings to eliminate what I thought was blow out. I missed a lot of shots with underexposure because she was insanely trigger happy. It was a good lesson learned and I will never make the same mistake. Next time, I'll just polite ask that they wait until I'm done before they take their pictures. Shouldn't be a big deal, they want the bride to have good pictures too.
Hope that helps.

[howzitboy]

never heard something so silly! what he gonna use, disposable camera? hannah montana digital camera? lol

[collierportraits]

Usually, I'll just tell those pesky relatives, "Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't mean to get in your way!! So sorry!" And they'll laugh sheepishly and back away. I don't know that it ever gets to more than that. If you can't handle pushy people with charm and grace, you probably ought to find another career.

If I were you, I would seriously rethink the choice of photographer. There are a few out there (it seems to me) that seem entitled to time and exclusivity and, I don't know, just arrogance in general. This Wedding, hey, it's NOT about the photographer. But that's just my .02

[_aravena]

Seriously, change people. The only thing a pro you're hiring has the right to ask is that people do not continuously get in the way and they should respectfully stay out of the way. That's just so he can take the photos you're paying them for.

Although I've gotten so many photos from family from my wedding, yeesh.

[tsw910]

i've seen the B&G ask to have no one to bring cameras to their weddings .. but never heard of a wedding photog asking / demanding to have no professional'ish equipment there ..

but i would understand why he would ask .. cuz at my wedding, there was alot of "people" in our shots ..

[Colorblinded]

I've heard through friends of stories about wedding photogs making similar demands. I think it's fully reasonable for them to ask that people give them space and not get in the way of their shots, but demanding that no one else bring "pro" equipment (such a pointless and arbitrary term) is laughable. I'd find someone else.

[Mr. Clean]

Technically your 30D isn't a professinal camera so you should be fine :D

[cdifoto]

Is this a common statement form "professional" photogs
Only the insecure ones. I have a "if people get in my way preventing me from doing my job I'll stop" clause but I could care less what cameras people bring and I'll even give guests time to shoot their own groups before (or after depending on time constraints) I get to work doing my thing.

[ofdphoto]

I have a "guest photography is at the discretion of the photographer" clause in my contract. I just explain that it gives me the right to tell Uncle Bob to move if he's impeding me, but I couldn't care less what cameras people bring and what they take photos of. I'm pretty sure my photos will look better than the guests', whatever equipment they might have.

It's worth querying how "hard and fast" the policy of this photographer is ... i.e. he may be protecting himself contractually but not be so fussed on the day.

[SuzyView]

Sometimes, at really posh weddings, it is distracting to have relatives and friends running down the B&G. If they are hiring a pro crew, that's already 3-5 or more people shooting. I went to a nice wedding at a gorgeous hotel and there were 4 pros and 1 videotographer. I didn't bother taking my camera because I knew they'd have it all covered. It just was not tasteful for me to jump in on the picture taking, already had too many. But if it's not so, just one shooter, I don't think it's unreasonable to call the pro up and ask.

[cactusjak]

OK the consus is pretty much the way I feel, there will just be the B&G both sets of parents,and 1 sister from each side, on the beach at sunset. I only have the on camera flash, which pretty much sucks, and all I really have any experience with is indoor sports that don't allow flash anyway. So the worst that can happen is thr "pro" will get a little pi$$ed, and after all in the long I'm paying the biggest part of the bill anyway. Thanks all for the input, I'll post how it all comes out! Not till after the 25th though. Again thanks loads to everyone

[_aravena]

Piss off the person taking the photos of a once in a lifetime event. Yeah sure, have at it.

[TheHoff]

I don't understand why you'd want to duplicate the pro's shots while a guest at a wedding. Why bother getting duplicates of the posed groups? It is an opportunity for you to shoot something else that the pro is currently missing. Tell a different story of the wedding, don't try and mimic someone else's.

[_aravena]

Who said that?

[pixelharmony]

My daughter was told by the photog that there would not be any "professional" cameras or equipment allowed at the ceremony. Its a package deal in Fl. I thought even a P&S in the right hands could make a professional picture and that because I have a 30D with a 70-200 2.8 does not make me a professional. Guess we'll see what happens. Is this a common statement form "professional" photogs, if so I'm not sure I want to get into this line of work.

Hire a new photog or have them remove that statement from the contract.

[lkorell]

I'd rent me a Hasselblad H3D for that one just to mess with him! :D

It's your daughter's wedding...you should be able to bring anything you want.
If you were a professional wedding photographer you should still be able to shoot a few at your own kid's wedding. Please! It is only insecurity that makes photographers do that, not competition.

I have shot many, many weddings where some of the guests had better cameras than I did. But they were coming over to me for advice on how to use them!

The really good ones don't worry about that stuff. The only thing I stipulate is that I am the only professional photographer working at the wedding. Guests can bring any camera they want as long as they don't get in my way.

I hope you get things sorted out so you can have some fun with your camera.

Lou

[cyrn]

My daughter was told by the photog that there would not be any "professional" cameras or equipment allowed at the ceremony. Its a package deal in Fl. I thought even a P&S in the right hands could make a professional picture and that because I have a 30D with a 70-200 2.8 does not make me a professional. Guess we'll see what happens. Is this a common statement form "professional" photogs, if so I'm not sure I want to get into this line of work.

I guess it's the photog's way of telling the B&G that if he/she is required to deliver then it's absolute no distraction or blocking the chosen perspective during the ceremony.... unless everyone is willing to wait or re-do the ceremony. :D

However, IMHO the phrasing is outdated, nowadays with the likes of 1000D and such, what defines a "professional" camera? In my contract, I only have a disclaimer to say if I'm blocked, I'm not liable for not delivering my usual standard as shown in my portfolio. That's because firstly, I'll miss "that moment" and secondly I've to find a less desirable perspective since I will then be a secondary photog instead as my primary "position" have been usurped.

[cyrn]

I don't understand why you'd want to duplicate the pro's shots while a guest at a wedding. Why bother getting duplicates of the posed groups? It is an opportunity for you to shoot something else that the pro is currently missing. Tell a different story of the wedding, don't try and mimic someone else's.

That's because everyone likes to be the "Pro" at the event. :D

[cyrn]

The really good ones don't worry about that stuff. The only thing I stipulate is that I am the only professional photographer working at the wedding. Guests can bring any camera they want as long as they don't get in my way.

I hope you get things sorted out so you can have some fun with your camera.

Lou

While I agree the really good ones aren't worried about other "professional" cameras... they are mostly concerned about distractions to subjects or missing the critical moment.

[Lunajen]

The only time I had a problem with people ruinging the shot was the wedding planner...she is a second shooter for her daughter as well and she was constatnly trying to tell me "here is a good shot, no here, aren't you going to get that shot, etc." and I finally said to her."I have done this before but thanks...."
Still got in at least three shots of the birde and groom...

[cyrn]

The only time I had a problem with people ruinging the shot was the wedding planner...she is a second shooter for her daughter as well and she was constatnly trying to tell me "here is a good shot, no here, aren't you going to get that shot, etc." and I finally said to her."I have done this before but thanks...."
Still got in at least three shots of the birde and groom...

You haven't met children with cams yet. :lol:

[DocFrankenstein]

Most of the time the good photographers have that in their contract. It's no reason to change a photographer.

[howzitboy]

ive shot a wedding and one of the guest brought a 4x5 camera! i was like "wow!". i even gave him chance to shoot and boy did he take long time.... but i bet the shot came out awesome!!

and its not the "pro" camera that id worry about. usually people who own "pro"camera gear will respect the photographer and not get in the way. its the people with those pesky point and shoot cameras that always get in the way. i did one wedding and after the kiss, i was trying to get the recessional shot but couldnt cuz the whole isle was filled with people with those rotten little cameras!!!

[PaulBradley]

Piss off the person taking the photos of a once in a lifetime event. Yeah sure, have at it.

Piss off the couple paying you good money for your services - sure, go ahead, it's not my business you'll be ruining.

[LBaldwin]

I've seen that mentioned in another thread here; personally, I'd find another photographer. The photographer is my employee, I'll determine what is or isn't allowed at my wedding. They aren't paying for an exclusive contract to shoot my event.

Unless you're hiring a very high-end name photographer who is really in demand, I'd bet there are others in the area equally as good who would like to take this job without such limits. Especially if it is a "package" deal, shouldn't everything, like prints from the ceremony, be included already?


Yup you're right. And the first time Uncle Fred jumps up in front of you with his "gear" and blocks your shot you will get really PO'd. Especially if it happens multiple times at the same wedding.

If I contract to shoot the wedding, then I am the photographer - no if's ands or butts. I do use an exclusive contract, and I enforce it. It is no good having a contract unless you intend to enforce it's agreements.

Many times the B&G appreciate the clause, and have the BM help me should someone make a fuss.

I really do think that most photographers that are afraid of using this clause or disagree with it fall into the lesser expense catagory. They use give aways to get business and a CD full of images are often on the table.

[TheHoff]

Yup you're right. And the first time Uncle Fred jumps up in front of you with his "gear" and blocks your shot you will get really PO'd. Especially if it happens multiple times at the same wedding.

Then you might as well include a clause of "NO CAMERAS" allowed whatsoever because someone being in your way has nothing to do at all with the type of camera they are using. As someone noted above, the point-and-shooters are probably more disrespectful than those you might find here with real SLRs.

Do you disallow ALL photography at the weddings you shoot or do you set an arbitrary level of camera sophistication that will be allowed?

[PaulBradley]

I do not permit anything with a flux capacitor, it screws with my memory cards.

[TheHoff]

How else will I manage the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity I need to power my strobes?!?

[PaulBradley]

How else will I manage the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity I need to power my strobes?!?

1.21 gigawatts? 1.21 gigawatts? 1.21 gigawatts?

Good god man, you're insane. We'll never make it out alive.

[Alexajlex]

It's been covered before but anything beyond the token statement in the contract regarding no other pro photogs hired for the same gig is ridiculous.

I think a lot of people are geeting confused when they "I have that in my contract as well"
You probably have the no other pro photog hired clause, not the no Pro camera allowed.

I've always been of the opinion that going beyond the statement will make you look like the non-Pro.

After all what does that statement even say ("I'm not certain of my skills and don't want someone else to show me off").

Seriously think about it when is the last time the BG hired 2 pros from separate companies at the same time? Believe me there are better things they will spend the money on.

Now a guest with a DSLr taking pics is common and not much you can do about it if you still want to be a Pro ( I guess you can put in that statement).

Look at it this way.
There are always red flags when it comes to anything.

When I read a contract that has a $150 fee that can be charged if a guest interferes with the photog, or brings a "Pro" camera big red lights go off in my head.

I feel that the photog may have strong beliefs of "creative control" and there may be even bigger issues later on. The usual one that happens a lot is the delay in delivery by months past the deadline (because they want to get the album "just right", translation: lack of motivation).

[pcunite]

Is this a common statement form "professional" photogs, if so I'm not sure I want to get into this line of work.

It is not commonly enforced. Something is going to give in the next two years. I am not sure but I would look for some camera rage to start being reported with everyone's bad attitudes these days! :)

In the case of the photographer I understand his viewpoint. I don't enforce this in my contracts... I have made a point in my mind to not care what people do at weddings. Hey bring your 5D's and distract everyone while I try to photograph them. I have already been paid!

In a formal shot I was taking the groom was looking at someone else. Go for it man! I have already been paid!

Of course I really do care but what can you do I not be considered a jerk?

[TheHoff]

I'm sure some people thought we were *******s for saying "no kids" at our wedding or reception. Fine, but it was our wedding and we didn't want the distractions. The difference here is that it is the photographer setting the rule and not the people throwing the event.

I understand how it can be distracting, but then you should speak up and have a relative or groomsman ask the annoying guests to stop interrupting the professional. It has nothing to do with whether it is a 5D or a Casio point and shoot. Only those worried about losing print sales would be concerned with the level of cameras present.

[cdifoto]

what can you do I not be considered a jerk?
Simple: politely but firmly say to the lingering camera guests:

"Hey guys I want to get my groups in here and then it can be your turn" or vice versa "Hy guys go ahead and get your shots in and then it's my turn."

If there's an open bar I'll let the guests shoot first so they can scurry off to drink. Trust me - as soon as they get their pics, they're outta there!

[LBaldwin]

Then you might as well include a clause of "NO CAMERAS" allowed whatsoever because someone being in your way has nothing to do at all with the type of camera they are using. As someone noted above, the point-and-shooters are probably more disrespectful than those you might find here with real SLRs.

Do you disallow ALL photography at the weddings you shoot or do you set an arbitrary level of camera sophistication that will be allowed?

I used to have a No camera policy. But the begining of the end started with disposables and then more and more P&S started getting in the way.

Alot depends on what the B&G want too. Some just like me, had several photographers at their wedding. Some have asked me advance to allow some specific persons to shoot, or even assist me. I am flexible to an extent. But I start out with the clause and work to an agreeable point.

But I let the B&G know that I will not be followed around by another shutterbug making copies of all my shots. I have had it too many times.
Then you get the inevitible "I got shots just as good as the pro". It really does cut into print sales. My customer average for weddings started going down with the advent of digital cameras. So I did an about face and only went after mid to hi $$$$ clients. My current average is just under 4k per wedding, so it is back up where it was before digital. I only shoot a few a season now and pick and choose the ones I really want to do. I am the point in my career where I only shoot what I want to do, weddings are no longer a major portion of my workload. I had a client fly me from San Jose to Orlando to do their wedding, and there was one other person with a DSLR beside my assistant. He had wanted to shoot candids only for the B&G and I said yes. It turns out he did a good job and took the pressure off of me for shooting all the cute kids in suits shots. It was preplanned and he did not interfer with me and I did not interfer with him.

BTW the MiL had a P&S and started to shoot during the ceremony. But she was crying so hard she could not use the camera. She gave it to me. I had printed a custom album just for her, with some of her shots. I just booked her step daughters 18th birthday party in TX...

[rklepper]

If it is your daughter's wedding you really should not be thinking in terms of taking your own photos. You will have way too many other things to think of that day. Just make sure that you have the right photographer.

[zelseman]

I agree with the above comment. I never knew there was this much drama in the business of photography. I have read several instances on this site about people getting dramatic about photos, its madness. Good luck though.

[cdifoto]

Just today there were some guests shooting random group shots between mine. No big deal really since they were the front-of-church grandma's groupshots, but instead of getting all artist arrogant on 'em, I stepped out of the way and made asked them if they got what they needed...even for a little girl with her camera phone.

By doing so, I created good rapport instead of bad blood. Since every guest got a business card with the couple's gallery/proofing/ordering link on the front with my logo and contact information on the back, it's hard to tell how much future business I may get.

My pics may not be the best in the world but some people would rather have good photos from someone they like than great photos from someone they despise.

[PhotoJourno]

The only situation where I have been really encountered with such a paranoic proposition (please excuse me for labeling the photographer's statements) was at some private event of diverse dimensions but poorly staffed, where the contracted media wanted to keep 100% control of the images. (High School or college play, some weird concerts -mostly B list and below- etc).

In my ignorant observation this is only reserved to things like Music Concerts and other Plays, live performances, etc.

On the scenario that is proposed here, it is just unrealistic. a 40D is not a Professional Camera (Arguably the 1D Series is). And while Canon L series was designed for Pros, you could use a Sigma 70-200 2.8, and still do a lot of damage. So wait, I am guessing this guy or someone on his posse will end up deciding what cameras are on which side of the very intangible line he is trying to set.

Uhm, a recipe from disaster. I usually turn into an arse in these cases. I just take one photo, and I make a comment along the lines of "I can do with just one and get paid as much as you do", or other slightly condescending comments.

One thing is common sense (Say you are hired as a wedding photog, and while you arrive at the reception you see another photog with a dual 1D rig and white glass, six alien bee lamp sets, and an assistant. Heck, even then I would probably not care so long as I was paid for it). Another thing is getting touchy.

Stay clear from those folk. No good can ever come from it. (Unless it is sir Elton John, and he asks that you give up all cameras before playing 3 hs in your living room piano... then it's your choice).

Best of luck.

[cdifoto]

One thing is common sense (Say you are hired as a wedding photog, and while you arrive at the reception you see another photog with a dual 1D rig and white glass, six alien bee lamp sets, and an assistant. Heck, even then I would probably not care so long as I was paid for it). Another thing is getting touchy..
In the first scenario, I'd ask if he had an extra trigger. :D

[PhotoJourno]

In the first scenario, I'd ask if he had an extra trigger. :D

:lol::lol::lol: Spoken like a true professional [Bows]...

[LBaldwin]

It really can go either way. In only few instances have I had an issue. In 30 years I have only had to speak to one or two hard headed folks. But who here, who shoots for pay has not been elbowed out of the way by an over aggressive aunt to get a cake shot?

How about the ever present self appointed director of photography that insists that you shoot their child dancing with the wedding party and then never leaves you alone.

Or better yet how about the drunk Uncle that junps in front of your camera each time you raise it up to do the table shots. I gotta tell ya sometimes I have needed a bouncer to stay with at some events. When I was a teenager and just starting out I had a lady puke wine and cheese all over my A-1!!

So maybe I am the cranky old guy now, but once you have your share of battle scars, who's to tell you, you're wrong? :-P

[cdifoto]

It really can go either way. In only few instances have I had an issue. In 30 years I have only had to speak to one or two hard headed folks. But who here, who shoots for pay has not been elbowed out of the way by an over aggressive aunt to get a cake shot?

How about the ever present self appointed director of photography that insists that you shoot their child dancing with the wedding party and then never leaves you alone.

Or better yet how about the drunk Uncle that junps in front of your camera each time you raise it up to do the table shots. I gotta tell ya sometimes I have needed a bouncer to stay with at some events. When I was a teenager and just starting out I had a lady puke wine and cheese all over my A-1!!

So maybe I am the cranky old guy now, but once you have your share of battle scars, who's to tell you, you're wrong? :-P
I can honestly say none of the above have happened to me thus far. I dunno I guess my number hasn't come up yet but I seem to be afforded quite a bit of respect despite only being 27.

[LBaldwin]

I can honestly say none of the above have happened to me thus far. I dunno I guess my number hasn't come up yet but I seem to be afforded quite a bit of respect despite only being 27.

God help me, I hope it doesn't. I assisted at a wedding for dear friend that was feeling ill and he had a doozy.

It seems that the B&G both had parties the night before the wedding and were not feeing too hot. It was very warm outside (outdoor wedding) and my friend had his gear bag, front row last seat. I was right behind it changing lenses on his 2nd body. The maid of honor was green and started to gag, that caused a chain reaction for two others including the bride. She left the flower trellis and went right to the bag. Two L lenses, his meter, a Q flash and several CF cards got it, with a direct hit. One MOH got nailed on the dress and several in the chairs were green.

My buddy got it ALL. Never missed a frame - guess who had to do wet clean up on aisle 3.... You guessed it the @#%$_)( assistant. But like the GREAT assistant I am (TFPIC) I had wet wipes and dry towels in my Kit and out within 30 sec. Wiped up the princess and back to the prince - exchange vows kiss on the cheek. YEA YEA It was in the can. Cleaned up the gear after the ceremony, no serious harm done. I added fabreeze to my kit.

If you shoot long enough, could be your first or the thousandth you will have the same issues. We are dealing with humans under serious stress. I put everything in writing. If it not on the contract it did not happen. And after so long, I get very few changes to my contract. How each of you run your business is up to you. Nothing for me is writen in stone, if the client wants something I am happy to provide just about any service. Except lowering my prices.

[hibiscusroto]

Wow Les, I've shot 7 weddings and have yet to experience a barf-a-thon. Plenty of "Uncle Bob" photogs with pro gear blocking my shot...so far all of the Uncle Bobs have moved out of the way when I've asked them to. I shot a larger wedding and had no fewer than 20 Uncle Bobs standing just behind/next to the bridal party clicking away the whole time.

At the last two weddings I've identified the Uncle Bobs in advance and asked them to keep an eye on me and stay out of my shot.

[LBaldwin]

Well by the time you get a few thousand shoots you will have several good stories...
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I also have had BM's pass out. video guys infront of ALL my shots, preachers bail at the last second, brides and grooms late, bad directions from google and mapquest - you name it.

I was at a wedding where the photog was in one car and shooting a moving shot of the limo - crash. Tables collaspe, drunk family members, fights, arguments, attitiude of kids, lots of tantrums of all shapes and sizes....

[hibiscusroto]

Ha ha! As crazy as that sounds, sign me up! I love shooting weddings.

[cactusjak]

I should post a replyto this . After my daughter threatened to disown me and since I'm such a nice, sweet, understanding father(boy its getting deep ) and after the photog reminded " everybody there" that there would be no other photos allowed during the ceremony, I caved. However everybody there was in the "wedding party" so it would have been hard to take pics anyway. I have attached the best one from before the ceremony, straight out of the camera, the wind was blowing, and my daughter was getting upset at everyone, and wanting to get started. The whole wedding ceremony took literally 15 mins. She hasn't got all the pics back from the photog , but got a few proofs that came out good. Again the pic attached is one of mine, not the photogs. But all in all my daughter was happy with how it turned out, and that was all that mattered, Thanks loads everybody!

[OdiN1701]

Geez...everyone is all CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!!

Why not give the guy a call and see if he'd have a problem?