Sunny Shooting, advice welcome.

[LexLuther]

Well, I think I have all my ideas thought out for my brother's up coming wedding in Cuba. Much of what I have figured out is greatly attributed to this great forum. I still have a little question though.

Since he's getting married on the beach, and it'll probably be very bright with much moving around (sun behind, infront, off to the side) I'm figuring I'm going to use fill flash. This puts me into the Av and Tv modes correct?

Now, the problem I do not want to encounter is having lots of photo's with DOF problems. I understand there will be a few shots of the bride and groom where I might slap on the 50mm 1.8 and actually use the f1.8, but I think the majority might end up being taken with the 17-40 f4L. So I guess my question is, if you wanted maximum DOF, and were going to use Fill Flash, would you go with Av mode and pick something like f11 or go the other way and pick Tv mode and pick 1/125 or 1/250?

I'm sorry but those number are a real stab in the dark for me, seems everything I get to take pictures of is by candle light and it'll be a real change for me.

After the ceremony and family photo's are over with, the reception will be in a dimly lit grass shack on the beach that has very high grass thatched roofs. I figure a pocket bounce from lumiquest will do great in this condition.

[robertwgross]

Sunny beach, right?

You want to get maximum depth of field, right?

Well, in bright light like that, your camera is going to want to go to the higher f numbers anyway, so that will get you to deeper depths of field. If you want to make that go more, then change your ISO. Larger f numbers means that you are letting in less light, so you have to push the ISO higher (more sensitive) to correct for that.

---Bob Gross---

[dphoto]

Hey guys, great topic, mind if I join in with another question instead of an answer? :D

When you're out in that exposed sun with no shade around, how do you position the subjects relative to the sun? On the one hand, you don't want them facing the sun because then they will be squinting. On the other, if the sun is behind them, then aren't you going to need a lot of fill flash to light them up since your lens will be stopped down so much already? Maybe a reflector would help? If the subjects were positioned so that the sun came in from the side, this would create some harsh shadows on their faces. But once again, a reflector could probably fix that. Actually, with sun from the side and a reflector, you could possibly set up nice lighting ratio. Or, with sun from the back and two reflectors of differing reflectiveness, you could also set up a nice lighting ratio. Wow, could reflectors be the answer? :D

Oh, and can you do anything at all if the sand reflects too much light and causes the subject to squint?

Thanks,
-Deva

[slin100]

On a 1.6x format camera (300D, 10D, 20D), you don't have to close down the aperture much on a 17-40 to get everything in focus. For example, when zoomed to 24mm, the DOF is 9.5 ft @ f/4, 16.6 ft @ f/5.6, 43.9 ft @ f/8, and infinite @ f/11 when focused to 10 ft. You'll have to decide if you really want everything in focus. That might make for trouble-free shooting but pictures usually look better when not everything is in focus. Personally, I think f/5.6 should suffice most of the time.

I suggest using Av mode. For maximum predictability while outdoors, I would recommend disabling Auto Reduction of Fill Flash and explicitly setting your own Flash Exposure Compensation. On a 10D, do this by setting C.Fn 14-1. Check your manual or with others if you have a different camera model. Using FEC between -1 1/2 to -2 stops is a good starting point. Indoors, bump FEC to +1 to counteract the tendency of Canon's flash system to underexpose.

[robertwgross]

If I had to shoot a beach wedding, I would pose the B&G facing toward the sun, but with a very large thin white awning overhead. So, diffuse light would be coming through it and onto the subjects. Then, in the background, you would see brightly lit surf. I would keep the awning out of the frame.

I had to do this for a mountaintop wedding one time. We had to carry in everything some miles, so weight was a huge factor. So, I got some jointed aluminum backpacker tent poles (as the supports), and a piece of thin white nylon mylar (as the diffuser).

The only big problem was carrying in the studio lights. <joke>

Seriously, a strobe flash underneath the awning might brighten it up somewithout doing too much.

---Bob Gross---

[dphoto]

Bob, wow, that's a pretty cool setup you built there! Where did you get the mylar piece? How did you know it was going to work? If it's too thin, it won't diffuse enough,and if it blocks too much light, then your background will be blown out. Wow, that is a great idea though. <Logging idea in back of mind for possible future reference.> :D

I was going to start a new thread with this question, but it seems to relate closely to this, so perhaps it's better to bring it up here. I was shooting during an overcast day, and then the sun came out. I moved my subjects into the shade of some trees (this was not a "wooded" area), but I think it was a little too shady because the sunny strip behind them was too bright. I was using my digital rebel with 550EX for fill. In hindsight, I probably should have put the 550 into manual mode with full flash. But even if that had not been enough fill flash, is there anything I can do to avoid that? I guess at the root the problem is that if your subject is too much darker than some of the background, there are going to be problems. Also, if I had reduced the exposure but kicked up the fill flash, the areas under the trees that would not have been illuminated by the flash would have looked very dark. Then instead of having blown out areas, there would have been underexposed areas. What to do? Any ideas when I'm in the sun and there is only minimal shade and the sun is shining on everything else? This is kind of like when there is only one or two trees around.

Hey, and as for those studio lights, if you use white lightnings or alien bees, then vagabond portable power is only $350 away. :D

Thanks!
-Deva

[PacAce]

Since nobody mentioned it, I guess I will. When shooting in bright sun, especially at or near the beach, I'm going to assume that you're also going to be shooting at high shutter speeds, higher than the flash sync speed, at one point or another. Don't forget to set the flash for high-speed sync, as appropirate, when using it for fill-flash. Otherwise your shutter speed will be limited to your sync speed in Av mode or you won't get a uniform flash exposure across the frame in Tv mode. I think in P mode, the camera won't even bother firing the flash if ambient lighting is adequate.

[dphoto]

Thanks Leo!

If shooting in high-speed sync mode, then I assume that the flash output will have to be reduced since high-speed sync is achieved through multiple pops of the flash. This could have consequences for your flash if done too rapidly or over an extended period of time. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken. :D

-Deva

[robertwgross]

Bob, wow, that's a pretty cool setup you built there! Where did you get the mylar piece? How did you know it was going to work? If it's too thin, it won't diffuse enough,and if it blocks too much light, then your background will be blown out.

The effort that was going to have to be expended getting all of my gear up to a mountaintop (on foot) was not insignificant. Therefore, I gave it a lot of thought.

The white piece was something I found at a surplus store, and it was once a big white beach awning or cabana cover. Cheap. Lightweight.

If it blocks too much light, then get somebody to hold up a reflector and bounce some extra in at the faces.

---Bob Gross---

[PacAce]

Thanks Leo!

If shooting in high-speed sync mode, then I assume that the flash output will have to be reduced since high-speed sync is achieved through multiple pops of the flash. This could have consequences for your flash if done too rapidly or over an extended period of time. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken. :D

-Deva

The reduction will be done automatically for you by the flash so you don't have to worry about reducing it yourself. But how much this reduction will affect the flash picture will depend on how far the subjects are from the camera. Of course, the farther the subject, the less effective the reduced flash output will be. But then, the other althernative would be to not use HS sync and instead reduce the aperture value to account for the lowered shutter speed. But reducing the aperture will also reduce the working distance of the flash.

I know that if you use the stroboscopic effect of the flash, especially at full power, that there may be consequences if you don't give the flash a chance to cool down. However, I don't think that that is a concern when using HS sync because basically, it's like shooting the flash normally at full power. That's because the total poower put out by the bursts of flash in HS sync mode never exceeds the output of a full power flash. So, whatever precautions you would take for normal full power flash use is what you would observe for HS sync use.

[sparker1]

I won't add any advice to the various approaches recommended, but I will suggest that you test your favored approaches in advance. It may be the day before, or just an hour before, the wedding to ensure similar conditions. Will there be a wedding rehearsal? That may be the time to rehearse your plans.

[dphoto]

However, I don't think that that is a concern when using HS sync because basically, it's like shooting the flash normally at full power. That's because the total poower put out by the bursts of flash in HS sync mode never exceeds the output of a full power flash. So, whatever precautions you would take for normal full power flash use is what you would observe for HS sync use.

Ah, that is a good point. The worst that will happen is that your flash will deplete its charge before it's done strobing and part of your image will come out darker. But you're right, it won't spend more than one full charge.

Stan, I took a look at your gallery and love your photos. I like your style... it looks like you have a lot of color saturation compared to what I usually do. It looks very nice. I've been to many of those places that you shot, but it was before I was into photography. Now I need to get back there with my digital rebel and lenses. :D

-Deva

[dphoto]

Oh, and thank you Bob for the info. I've always got my eyes open for material that can be used as backdrops or reflectors. Now I'll have to add "giant sun diffuser" to my list. :D

-Deva

[robertwgross]

White mylar is best, and a simple white fabric might be another idea. Next time you are at the fabric shop, see what they have in a very wide fabric that is very sheer like ladies nylon stockings. I have a narrower piece like that which I purchased to make a light tent for shooting wildflowers.

---Bob Gross---

[PacAce]

Ah, that is a good point. The worst that will happen is that your flash will deplete its charge before it's done strobing and part of your image will come out darker. But you're right, it won't spend more than one full charge.
-Deva

No, that won't happen either because the flash will distribute the pulses evenly across the whole frame so the whole frame will be equally lit. The only time you will get uneven flash lighting in a frame is if you shoot with shutter speeds higher than sync speed but the flash is not in HS sync mode.

[LexLuther]

Bob, wonderful ideas, many of which I've never seen much less tried, and probably wont be able to touch upon while in Cuba. It's my brother's wedding and well frankly, I think what I can hopefully pull off with just the 20D and 580EX might be a tad bit better than other people attending the ceremony with their disposables.
Thankfully I will have 4 full days of being down there to experiment before the event. I'm hoping they can make up their minds as to where they want their pictures taken so I can go to those spots days before, and use my wife as a model to get my settings down pat. All luxuries I never had for my own wedding in Cuba back in June when I just handed the camera over (in full auto mode - crosses fingers) to a family member with P&S experience.

I'm leaning towards putting the camera in Tv mode and setting it to 1/250, and then putting the flash in HS mode. I'm hoping the 17-40 has enough stops to compensate.

PacAce and Slin100, I will look into/read up on what I can do to get fill flash at 1/1000 and above for when I need f4 to get some nice DOF effect. I'm a little unsure on how to go about forcing flash but will read what you suggested (reading the manual for the 4th time.)

(Why can't it be sunny here in Canada.. for just 1 day!!)

[slin100]

Lex,

Unless overridden by Custom Function, the flash will always fire in any creative (M, Av, Tv, P) mode when turned on. Same thing for the built-in flash. It will always fire when popped up. I'm less certain about the basic modes, like the green box, because I never use them but I believe the flash may not always fire.