Starting a very small business?

[J.Lynn.R]

Based on the success of my last shoot (http://picasaweb.google.com/macilwen/SaraFinals), I'm thinking about starting a very small business...seeing as I'm only just graduated from high school and don't have a huge amount of either equipment or money -- especially not enough money to set up a studio -- I was thinking of making it a get-your-own-prints kind of thing.

I was thinking of charging:
$40 base fee (2 locations, 2 hours, 3 outfits)
Transportation fee (amt of money I need to get wherever)
$25 per extra hour
$25 per extra location
Includes 5 hi-res images, $5 per extra image

I really need about $500 to pay for college books and dorm stuff. Even if I only get 5 people, it'd be enough.

Now, my question is, is this a good idea? Or is it something I should wait on doing until I have a bit more money?

The thing I'm most afraid of is getting someone who I have no idea how to shoot...or a location I know nothing about...

The dilemma I have is that I don't have enough money to buy a really good lens (all I have is a Rebel XT and its kit lens) that would be helpful for portraits. But, if I started the business, I would be able to get a new lens...

[vgk1nka1dx]

I'm pretty interested in seeing what some of the members suggests to you. I'm not a pro by any means, but I would suggest to you to scout your area and find places to do shoots at (parks, historical areas, schools of course).

[basroil]

My first suggestion, double the base price. The 5 people will still come to you, and you'll have made twice as much. If you don't want to go that route, charge the same 40, but get a sumgmug/other pro-oriented printing/gallery site and charge for photos rather than giving them away. It will give you a bit more revenue, and it'll give them better prints. Why let them go to walmart and print them for cheap, just to tell you how much they sucked because colors are off or other weird things happened. Perhaps give one free 400x600 "profile" picture, but if you give away everything all the time, you'll need far more than a dozen folks to reach 500.
Second suggestion, advertise. If no-one knows you are there, no-one will hire you, that simple. Go make fliers, use facebook, check out craigs list, etc.
Third piece of advice, don't get new equipment if you know and trust your current stuff. Buying a new 85L but not knowing how to use it when the time comes will bring you ruin. If you must get something, get a 50 1.8. It won't break the budget and it's amazingly sharp past f2.8 (though bokeh leaves much to be desired).

Fourth suggestion, raise your needed 500 to at least 1500. Unless you plan on taking only one or two classes a semester and like sleeping on walmart $3 sheets (trust me, not a good idea in college, though they make great backdrops when muslin is too expensive), it's not even enough. First semester of last year, I ended up paying about 600 in books, and that's because one of my books was reused in a higher level class. Dorms generally use twin XL, so old sheets generally don't cut it either, so look for new sheets, etc.

[J.Lynn.R]

Oh geez, college...y'know, I have a job but it's minimum wage ($5.85) and a tax refund check from government that should be on its way ($161)...but college will still need extra funds, even if it's only to pay interest on loan.

Yeah...the thing with the base price is that I'm a total amateur and I don't want to overcharge people....
About prints: I was going to make a deal with Meijer, which is walmart-like but does a much, much better job with photos. I also belong to a website called DPChallenge, where a $25 membership also comes with a 75% profit on prints. I'm thinking about using that for printing, but I'm not sure how ethical that would be or how well it would work.
Definitely doing craigslist, starting a facebook group, photographing close friends for free and then sending them out to do some advertising for me, etc. etc.
I love my kit lens! When I make enough money, I'm probably getting either the 55mm f/1.8, 55-250mm f/4-5.6, or the 75-300mm f/4-5.6.

[PhotosGuy]

The thing I'm most afraid of is getting someone who I have no idea how to shoot... Find out what they're interested in. or a location I know nothing about... Don't fall into that trap. Find locations that will work & "suggest" them. That's what you're being underpaid for. ;)

Angeline outdoors (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=483975)
The dilemma I have is that I don't have enough money to buy a really good lens The 300D & kit lens paid for my 20D, 28-70 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8,...
Post your best shots from the "kit lens"-EF-S 18-55 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185522)

Because you have a descriptive title, you can look at the "Similar Threads" links at the bottom-left of this page!
Each link you visit should provide more links at the bottom.

[TheSportsGuy]

Im in your same position...

Im about to start college in the fall, and thinking of setting up a small sports freelance here at my house, but don't know how to set charges and how to go about to do it..

Sorry to hijack your thread.

[aram535]

I suggest doing a bit of research in your area, how much do the local pros charge for a sitting fee in studio? Without the equipment and location you can comfortably charge around 60-75% of their rate. Assume that you will have to work longer for the same shot, since people not showing up, weather, etc. all are going to eat into your schedule.

[amfoto1]

The most amateurish thing you can do is fail to make your price structure profitable. It's a sure way to go out of business in a hurry! There are thousands of amateurs who get the bright idea to make some extra money who take this route every year and end up crashing and burning in no time, losing money rather than making any.

Price yourself on par with others, and don't worry about the "ethics" of making a profit on prints, too.

If you wish to offer a discount, perhaps in exchange for a signed model release that would allow you to freely use the shots you take in advertising, or in exchange for customer referrals, etc., that would be cool.

Do not fall into the "cheapest in town" category. That will attract the worst possible type of clients and you will be labelled that way for the rest of your very short and unprofitable career.

Charge fair prices.... That means prices that are fair to yourself as well as fair to the customer.

Don't be too quick to allow people to take and print your images on their own. That's a dangerous area, as others have noted.

There are plenty of online services you can use, such as Smugmug, Printroom, etc. Let people view and order there, to lighten your load. I'm not sure if Smugmug does the same, but Printroom has a "default" pricing structure for portraiture/weddings, other events and sports photography. You can just use their recommendations, or restructure prices as you see fit. There's a free account, but to sell effectively you'd need their $99 a year "Pro" account at least. They also charge 16% of your gross sales on top of the "wholesale" print price. The rest is sent to you as profits the middle of each month.

Discount your prices for friends, if you wish.... But think long and hard about "free".

Ummmm... Craigslist... Not sure I'd want to be alongside all the $200 wedding photogs (or worse, the "will shoot for free to get experience" photogs). I guess I'd have to look at the local Craigslist and make a judgment call... just be careful.

Act professional and you will be viewed as a professional, no matter what lens and camera you use or how much experience you actually have. Professionalism is confidence in your own abilities, enthusiasm for meeting the clients needs and efficiency that gets the job done well and on time, no matter what, as much as it is equipment and years in the business.

I used to dread new clients and situations, too. Doing the same old same old day in and day out leads to less than inspired work. Eventually I realized that often I was doing my best work when I was out in uncharted territory having to really step up and put some effort into figuring out how to get the job done well. I bet you find this, too.

Just taking this first step and giving serious thought to making a business out of your passion is a solid start.

Be aware that there are many successful photographers who are sort of "adequate" in their photography, but really savvy in business. At the same time, there are more than a few brilliant photographers who have failed miserably, because they were poor at the business side of it.

Any photo-related business is 80 or 90% about the business side of things, and 10 or 20% about taking good photos.

The very first thing any new business should do is carefully check out the market to see what competition and, realistically, what customer demand there might be for their goods and services. You might stop by the library and look for a book on putting together business plans for more ideas of things you need to consider, then put together a more detailed plan for yourself. But don't get too bogged down in any plan... Keep it simple... It's just a roadmap and subject to constant change as new things crop up).

Go for it, have fun, and a little luck is a great thing!

[J.Lynn.R]

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I did a bit of research, and this place (http://www.ptps.com/ptps/) is the only portrait studio in town -- Personal Touch. They're exorbitently expensive (I know one girl who did her sitting there and then didn't have enough money to buy the $800 print package) and everyone thinks they're really really lame. Everyone gets them so everyone's portrait is the same...this lady (http://www.portraitsbylori.com/index.htm) also does portraits in my town. I think she's a lot cheaper but not significantly less lame.

I know someone who I could ask for help with business plan. There are at least six high schools around, and three of them are very large indeed, so there's a big demand.

[jackies35]

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I did a bit of research, and this place (http://www.ptps.com/ptps/) is the only portrait studio in town -- Personal Touch. They're exorbitently expensive (I know one girl who did her sitting there and then didn't have enough money to buy the $800 print package) and everyone thinks they're really really lame. Everyone gets them so everyone's portrait is the same...this lady (http://www.portraitsbylori.com/index.htm) also does portraits in my town. I think she's a lot cheaper but not significantly less lame.

I know someone who I could ask for help with business plan. There are at least six high schools around, and three of them are very large indeed, so there's a big demand.

I wish you all the best! Your images are ok! Great for a beginner! What type of machine are you using? I see that you have an eye for angles and composition. By the way, I love you energy and your passion for photography.

I just took a peek at Personal Touch and they are serious! Their website is hot... They also offer a special from May to July... It could be very challenging since they already have the equipment, experience, and time.

Keep believing and reading everything about photography. Every new equipment, workflow, and style, that would keep you in the "KNOW HOW"! Stay updated! Personal Touch has been around for a while and their site looks hot! Looks could be deceiving though!

You have your work laid out for you.... So, go and start shooting! :eek::lol::eek:

[madhatter04]

Great advice on this thread!
A friend of mine and I are also working on starting a portrait/event/wedding business and something we had to overcome was setting prices that reflected the quality of our work. We both do pretty sweet work, and getting over the "We're just starting out..." mindframe was liberating!!

My advice: don't underestimate yourself and bookmark www.half.com!! ;):D

[bieber]

To be honest, looking at your last shoot photos, I wouldn't recommend charging people for your services at this point. You need to make sure that you've really got the basics of exposure, light and composition down before you go trying to be professional about it...

[flaneur]

If you wish to offer a discount, perhaps in exchange for a signed model release that would allow you to freely use the shots you take in advertising, or in exchange for customer referrals, etc., that would be cool.

This is an interesting idea, makes me consider getting more involved in "people" shots. Getting people to sign away photo rights has always seemed pushy to me, but if there's a discount involved, basically they are selling their rights at the price of the discount. That somehow seems more agreeable to me. (Even if I wind up making more from the deal than they paid.)

I'm also in Indiana, and also interested in the small business aspect, but my interests are nature and architecture. I'm sure the market is somewhat different than studio portraits, but still there's alot of great business advice in this thread.

[turbo212003]

Be picky. I like some of your shots but not all of them. I'd rather get a customer 10 quality photos than 20 so so shots.

[WillMass]

I did a bit of research, and this place (http://www.ptps.com/ptps/) is the only portrait studio in town -- Personal Touch. They're exorbitently expensive....

I love comments like this!

First (copied from their site); School Portraits 2008
Packages Start at $25

So apparently they do offer packages for less than 800 beans.

Second, You proudly proclaim you have a Dreb and kit.

I'll bet they've got a studio they pay rent on, and B/G's and sets and props. Not to mention strobes, PW's assorted modifiers. They probably pay employees, and have to pay health care and benefits for them, and an accountant, and lawyer to pay.

Don't forget about liability and equipment insurance, and taxes.

You are insured, right??

And you will collect sales tax from your customers, and pay income tax on the money you make...right?

Oh and let's not forget hard won experience...Chances are the owner of that "exorbitantly priced" business, more than likely, has been taking photos more years than you have in school.

No offense intended, but start a business from nothing. Pay for all the equipment, and necessary fees, taxes, etc. Then come back and tell everybody what what the real prices should be.

[Alleh]

How long have you had a camera?

[strmrdr]

I love comments like this!

First (copied from their site); School Portraits 2008
Packages Start at $25

Here are the so called packages and don't include prints.
http://www.ptps.com/Session_Guide.pdf

[WillMass]

Here are the so called packages and don't include prints.
http://www.ptps.com/Session_Guide.pdf

Your point?

I think their prices are quite reasonable, considering the points I made in my earlier post about overhead. One package even includes a MUA.

I charge $65/hour for a session, which works out to slightly more than what they charge.

Are you suggesting the photographer's time is worth nothing?

[Fihiro]

Your point?

I think their prices are quite reasonable, considering the points I made in my earlier post about overhead. One package even includes a MUA.

I charge $65/hour for a session, which works out to slightly more than what they charge.

Are you suggesting the photographer's time is worth nothing?

He is suggesting that the other persons implication of 25$ for a package of photography was false. He provided evidence in the form of an PDF from website stating that the 25$ only covers make up.

THAT is what he is suggesting.

[LW Dail]

A lot of interesting things being discussed in this thread!

I poked through your Picassa and loved a few (dog swimming!).

I hate to be the old person, but please really consider why you want to start a portraiture business. You're in college, hopefully studying business.

You understand about insurance for your equipment, breakage, broken contracts, paying lawyers, buying backgrounds/lighting, renting studios, paying models. And taxes, those pesky things, which mean you'll need some sort of accounting methodology. Which leads to expenses and proper documentation, devaluing of equipment, capital purchases, etc.

And don't forget marketing. Fliers and facebook are fine, but have you priced a yellow pages ad? Radio? Networking events?

I say these things because you've taken some great shots and it's easy to get swept up in the idea of opening a studio. But if this is not a passion to you (eat, sleep, breathe it) you will not do well. It will quickly become not fun. You will be spending more time doing other stuff, not shooting.

That is true of any pursuit in life - if you do not love it, it will always be work. I love photography and have a dream of opening a business related to arts and teaching. I also have a hefty sum saved up to cover a year's worth of expenses, insurance, staff, etc. My husband and I have also owned/operated two businesses as well as 25 years of professional experience.

Both businesses SHOULD have done well but neither of us LOVED them.

My strongest suggestion to a young woman just starting out is to have fun! If you need to raise money, hold a 'Snap a thon' and do a one day event. Or do a Christmas card session for the dorm for $20/person for a ten-minute sitting and one .jpg file (prints extra, of course!).

I would sincerely hate to see you take something you are good at that you enjoy and turn it into something you come to despise.

And you're young! Get out there and enjoy life and take pictures. Practice your trade, read the books, shoot the shots, take the classes you'll need (business, photography, marketing). If this is your path, it won't go away, it will always be there with you.

Gee, I'm verbose! I just wish you all the best and wish there was some way to take my years of experience (read: mistakes!) and download them to you so I could save you the heartaches!

[LW Dail]

Oh yes, and to the IRS, there is no such thing as a 'very small business!'

They will be involved from day one! Along with your state and local taxing authorities!

[strmrdr]

He is suggesting that the other persons implication of 25$ for a package of photography was false. He provided evidence in the form of an PDF from website stating that the 25$ only covers make up.

THAT is what he is suggesting.
exactly.
The way most of these places work they sucker you in with a low session fee then hit you with outrageous print prices.
One here is town has a $35 basic session fee but the smallest amount you can get a print for is a $350 package and they don't tell you that up front.
They suckered in a friend of mine and he had to tell his daughter she couldn't have any prints because if he paid the $350 he wouldn't be able to pay his mortgage.
I rounded up a p&s and did them for free and had them printed at mpix and my shots were better than the ones the studio did.

Notice there are no print prices anywhere on the website.

$65 an hour is fair I don't get out of bed for less than $60 an hour and corporate clients pay $120 whether im taking photos with their equipment or fixing their computers.
But advertising $25-$150 sessions then turning it into emotional blackmail for several hundred dollars is wrong.

[WillMass]

$65 an hour is fair I don't get out of bed for less than $60 an hour and corporate clients pay $120 whether im taking photos with their equipment or fixing their computers.
But advertising $25-$150 sessions then turning it into emotional blackmail for several hundred dollars is wrong.

I agree with most of what you've said, and in fact publicly post our pricing structure, and make all of our customers aware of our prices well in advance of them hiring us.

What I was addressing in my post was the OP's naivete, about the business of photography, and commenting on someone else's pricing, without looking at (or knowing) all of the costs associated with such a business.