Bit of a dilemma: shoot not perfect...do you discount?

[Floriantrojer.com]

Hi ladies and gents :)

I'm in a bit of a dilemma right now.
Did a photoshoot for a company that's currently my best client last week, and while it all went smooth in general, it didn't turn out as good as possible.

Let me explain the situation:

I already did 3 other shoots with them during the last few months, all were really perfect, they liked my work and I was happy with the results too.

They were very precise about what they want (it's an aviation business)... jet reflection in the limo window, some staged shots, exterior shots looking at the aircraft from above, we needed a platform for that, I made that very clear in advance.

I was there at 6am as agreed, my contact only arrived at 7am because he was stuck in traffic, so we were an hr behind already.
Quite a mess in general, no one around to tow the aircraft out of the maintenance hangar. I didn't care, did the interiors in the meantime.

Finally, 8something AM, somebody is qualified enough to push the plane out, we start with some general shots, then we heard....no limo for the car shots available. Neither the platform for the top down shots.

I'm a bit pissed and let them know I can't deliver what was agreed on like that. They say we can do that elsewhere later in the afternoon.

At 930am we flew the jet to another airport, I accompanied them and did some in-flight shots with the crew etc. All good.

Arriving at destination, platform is there, but weather of course sucks. I do some shabby exterior shots, completely not to my satisfaction because of rather cluttered background and dull light.

Time passes and my time for the flight back comes closer. I asked them four times to get the limo, but no luck also there. No limo shots.

I leave them behind, packed up and went to check-in for my flight back.
---

Here's my problem..... (finally heh? :))
While actually none of the things were my fault as the photographer, I feel kinda bad to deliver a lot less than planned. The shots I have are good as usual, but what they wanted isn't there.

I know I can blame it all to their employees, but that's kinda not my thing to point fingers, so I thought about giving a bit of a discount on the price of the assignment.

What's your opinion on that? I'm not really sure, as the stuff I have is top notch, just not all they wanted.

I want to make sure to keep the relationship working as it is, but at the same time am not sure if that's good for my income, because after all, it wasn't my fault...


Awwww :D opinions pls!

[scotteisenphotography]

It wasn't your fault that there were those problems. I'd charge them in full. They should've had everything ready. The contact in the traffic is understandable, the other things are not.

[PhotosGuy]

I'd charge them in full. They should've had everything ready. I agree. The contact in the traffic is understandable, Disagree on this one. It's not as if "traffic" is something new & unexpected?

I've had the same problem with writers who are used to getting all their info over the phone & don't understand that you can't do that, & it's their business to know that?
Two examples:
The guy who called me Sunday AM & said we have to be there for a pipeline river crossing Monday AM. 200 miles away. Reality was that they started work at noon & the actual crossing wasn't 'till Wednesday PM.

Then another one scheduled a shoot of a guy who grew orchids. The shoot had been scheduled for two weeks & the problem was that he'd had a show the previous weekend & had forced the blooms. Four stinkin' 1/2" blooms were left for me to shoot. :D

I do understand how you feel, but you did the best you could. If they want a reshoot, charge them the full rate & the guys who screwed up will give you a bit more respect next time.

[scotteisenphotography]

Disagree on this one. It's not as if "traffic" is something new & unexpected?

I've had the same problem with writers who are used to getting all their info over the phone & don't understand that you can't do that.
Two examples:
The guy who called me Sunday AM & said we have to be there for a pipeline river crossing Monday AM. 200 miles away. Reality was that they started work at noon & the actual crossing wasn't 'till Wednesday PM.

Then another one scheduled a shoot of a guy who grew orchids. Problem was that he'd had a show the previous weekend & had forced the blooms. Four stinkin' 1/2" blooms were left for me to shoot. :D

I do understand how you feel, but you did the best you could. If they want a reshoot, charge them the full rate & the guys who screwed up will give you a bit more respect next time.


Hmm now that you put it that way....i agree with you

[amfoto1]

Hi,

I really have to agree with the others.

Not one thing you mentioned was anything you had control over or could effect. You were at the mercy of the client, the weather, availability of qualified people and equipment, etc. It was all out of your hands and you were flexible and did the best you could to meet their needs, in spite of all the "glitches".

I would meet with them, show them what you got and get their reactions. They may be happy with it, they may not. If so, great. If not, just say "I agree, it's not what I wanted to do, either. But it was the best I could get under the circumstances." Try not to get into the blame game.

Have they actually asked you for a discount? I'd try not to give it, since you showed up on time, did the best you could under the circumstances, did all you were personally responsible for (and could accomplish under the limitations) put in your time and found creative ways to work around the problems.

I'd be more inclined to offer a shorter reshoot to get the missed materials (through no fault of your own), perhaps offer to do that at a discounted, since it sounds like they are a really good, repeat customer.

At some point, if there continue to be any issues, you might be able to gently work it into conversation - tactfully without sounding like you are pointing fingers - that their contact was an hour late, their personnel needed to move the jet were 2 hours late, their equipment wasn't available as promised, and when you went to "plan B", the weather didn't cooperate.

Also, what if they look over what you got, say they are happy with it and write you a check for your work? Does it end there? It wouldn't if it were me. I'd say, "You know, before the shoot we talked about the reflection in the limo window. When the limo didn't show up and the jet wasn't available at airport A, we went to airport B and tried to get it, but the weather didn't cooperate. How important is that shot to you? Do we need to schedule another shoot? Let me look at my calendar."

In other words, this may be an opportunity in disguise, a chance to set up another paid job with them.

[Floriantrojer.com]

Thank you all really for the great advice!

As I said it's currently my best client, and we have two or three shoots yet to come during the next few weeks.

I see my problem in being way too self-critical (not sure if that's a good thing :)...).

I really personally feel bad about not getting all things done, even though it was out of control.

They did not ask me for a discount, I just get the pictures and the invoice ready until Tuesday and send them off to their office, so I've still got a bit of time.

I just felt like giving a small discount on the rather hefty assignment fee may just you know....kinda keep them happy, even though it wasn't my fault. I want them to understand that I really am into getting it all done perfectly, which imo can be very good for future assignments.

I thought along the lines of

"while we encountered problems that were out of my control as the photographer, I'm aware that I could not deliver all you wanted, and therefore am willing to give a small discount. For the next shoot we'll most certainly need etc.etc.etc. ready and I'm sure it will be more satisfying for the both of us".

Anyway, maybe I'm just being too kind for the business :oops:

Another thing coming into play is that I'm currently doing my flight training, and the good relationship with the (expanding at a quite impressive rate) company could well earn me a job next year :rolleyes:

I'll just put some more thought in it...awww decisions :cool:

Thanks again very much gents!

[cdifoto]

I don't discount or re-shoot on my own dollar unless it's my fault. You didn't drop the ball - they did. If they're really your best client (and that means more than just financially), they'll understand and would never expect or even want you to discount for their own mistakes in the first place.

[poloman]

If you made the arrangements and it falls apart...you eat it.
If they made the arrangements and if falls apart...they eat it.
You might be generous in offering them an avenue for recovery. Don't stroke them too hard perhaps.

[-MasterChief-]

i have to agree with everyone here. its not just your expertise theyre paying for ... most importantly, ITS YOUR TIME! :D

[tim]

Don't offer a discount, they stuffed up, not you. They caused you stress and wasted your time. I'd be inclined to charge them more, not less. They'll need to reshoot, charge them full rates.

[Dennis_Hammer]

No reason to discount. But now there is a reason to contact them a couple of days in advance go over a check list of what needs to be done and what time you expect it there and have them call you back to confirm everything the day before at least.

[markblanchard13]

I would not discount! As was previously stated, if THEY provided the things that went wrong, THEY should eat the cost.

If they gripe - tell them you'll handle it yourself, then give them a price with extra costs for time spent procuring said effects.

[PhotosGuy]

Also, what if they look over what you got, say they are happy with it and write you a check for your work? Does it end there? It wouldn't if it were me. I'd say, "You know, before the shoot we talked about the reflection in the limo window. When the limo didn't show up and the jet wasn't available at airport A, we went to airport B and tried to get it, but the weather didn't cooperate. How important is that shot to you? Do we need to schedule another shoot? Let me look at my calendar."

In other words, this may be an opportunity in disguise, a chance to set up another paid job with them. Excellent point!

[Floriantrojer.com]

I sent it off today and didn't discount, thanks very much for your help guys!
We'll see how it goes!

Cheers,

[jimmywires]

Dude..you shouldn't have done that. There is no way nice to say this "whats 50% of a $h!tsandwich...a $h!tsandwich. I would have shot what i needed again, on there dime; Give them 3 days no problem

[jimmywires]

come on now....

[PhotosGuy]

come on now.... What? You did some trolling & nobody flamed you?
If there's "no way nice to say this", maybe you should try harder next time, or just say nothing.

[jimmywires]

oh please i wasnt trolling 50% of crap is still crap

[sfaust]

I also agree with the majority. I wouldn't start pointing fingers, but just lay out the truth. Ie, you didn't have a limo as agreed, so there is no way you could have photographed one. They will know who was responsible, so no need to place any blame, they will do that themselves. Weather is weather. No one to blame there, it is what it is.

In my estimates, I have a section called 'Client responsibilities'. This where I list things that the client will need to do in order for the shoot to go smoothly. In this instance, it would have listed the platform, limo, time the airplane needs to be ready (push back, etc), and so on. Then it's in writing upfront.

This is more important when you are working with someone who reports up the management chain. If a shoot goes wrong, you don't want them blaming everything on you to their boss. If you have it in writing, and things go amiss, at least its documented somewhere so its harder to blame the photographer.

Usually its not an issue, but on a high pressure big budget project, where someones job is on the line, people tend to bend morals when faced with unemployment :confused:. So a little protection is good. Plus, its also just a good way to give the client a checklist of what you need in order to pull off the project.

Then I just do the best I can with what's ready and delivered, and charge the full rate. As long as the issues aren't your fault, you did the best you could with what was available, there is no reason you should discount your rate because they dropped the ball.

The best I would do under some circumstances, might be to offer a small discount on a follow up shoot to do those missed shots. It would depend on the client, past history, how much was out of their control, and so on. Its a case by case scenario. The more business they bring in, the more likely I am to do this.