New Versatile Studio Lighting

[Chris71]

I am about to order some new studio lighting, to replace my Novatron 240 kit. I have already decided on Alien Bees. The only thing I have not decided on, is softboxes.

I am going to buy three of the B800's, and then softboxes for each. My choices are:

Foldable Medium Softbox (http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html)
(24" x 36")

Foldable Large Softbox (http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html)
(32" x 40")

Foldable Giant Softbox (http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html)
(30" x 60")

Foldable Stripbox (http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html)
(10" x 36")

Foldable Medium Octabox
(http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html) (35")

Foldable Large Octabox (http://www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html)
(47")

I had originall planned on getting two giant boxes, and one stripbox. I then thought about getting the large octabox, a giant softbox, and a stripbox.

So, if you were planning on doing glamour photos, but also needed this kit to work with family photos, which three would you choose that would be the most versatile, and why.

I have really been going back and forth with this decision, and the time to order has come. I thought I would get some advice from those of you that shoot more glamour, as I am just getting into that aspect of photography.

Thanks,
Chris

[Chris71]

Ok, let me put this another way. Out of the six softboxes listed above, if you could have three (any combination) in your studio, which would you buy.

I really need some experienced help here, I need new lights.
I don't want to wish I had bought something else later.

[TMR Design]

Hi Chris,

Since it looks like you're going with AB products, if I was going to pick 2 modifiers I would choose:

1. Large Octabox - nice large diffused light source with great coverage and a natural looking catch light. Can be used for 1 and 2 person portraits. In a small space it won't give you the control and directionality you'll get from a softbox and you might want to pick up the grid to regain some of that control.

2. Giant Softbox or Large Softbox - it's hard to just give you a be-all do-all solution. If you were doing more full length, 2/3 body shots. or groups then I would probably go with the giant box but large is not always the best way to go and a 30" x 60" box may not be ideal. I would probably get the large 32" x 40" for general use.

3. Stripbox - very useful device. Can be used for the main light, hair light, accents and kickers. Great for directionality and control, while still giving you nice soft light.

Something you may want to think about getting is the set of 4 spot grids. They fit in your standard reflectors and cost $99 for the set of 4. You get a 10, 20, 30 and 40 degree grid. I find grids to be very valuable and some of the best tools in my lighting kit.

[tim]

I bought Photoflex softboxes from B&H, when I was buying the AB softboxes didn't have a great reputation for quality.

[Chris71]

Robert,

Thanks so much for your advice.
For the money, would the AB products be the way to go? Everyone who has them, seems to like them. I just think, they seem to be the logical choice for what I want to spend, which is about $1500.

[Chris71]

I bought Photoflex softboxes from B&H, when I was buying the AB softboxes didn't have a great reputation for quality.

Thanks Tim,

What sizes did you get? Is the build quality far superior to the AB softboxes?

[tim]

What sizes did you get? Is the build quality far superior to the AB softboxes?

I never got an AB soft box because of what people had said. I don't know what size I have, but in genera buy the biggest soft boxes you can fit into your room.

[TMR Design]

I too use other brands of modifiers and I'm not using AB's, but Chris had decided on AB's for his lights and posed the question asking us to choose from the AB modifiers listed.

If you (Chris) want input on other third party modifiers then we're going to see everyone chiming in with their favorite brand and type.

I tried to answer the question without veering off target. My understanding from many owners of AB modifiers is that they work well, the foldables are very convenient, although bulkier when collapsed, and are priced very reasonably. Quality of light is not an issue at all.

I have also heard and seen mention of the inferior stitching and build quality, which I'm not sure if it's an issue unless the gear is going to be setup and broken down a lot or moving with you on location. If that were the case I would look into some other products with better build and durability.

Also, if you were not buying AB for the foldable boxes then for the money I would seriously look into Photoflex as a very good, reasonably priced alternative. Personally I've never even understood why people talk about assembling a softbox as if it's a hassle. I put my boxes together and break them down easily and I do so on location without any trouble whatsoever, and I think it takes me about 60 seconds to assemble a box. Maybe a foldable goes up in 10 or 15 seconds but for an extra 45 seconds I think I'll survive :D

[tim]

The first time I tried to assemble a soft box it took ages, the instructions that come with them suck. Once I looked at the instructions online and a friend who happened to pop around had a look too it was pretty quick, now it takes me a few minutes to assemble a soft box.

[form]

I've had good luck with the quality and the price of amvona's dynaphos softboxes (ebay auction). They come with accessories like louvres and fabric grid. It's an inexpensive alternative and you can buy a new medium-sized softbox with dual baffling and accessories for less than $30 if you keep your eyes open.

Based on what I've read, I also agree that grids are an invaluable tool.

[Chris71]

Thanks everyone, for your replies.

form, I have two of the 3' octaboxes from Amvona. I like them a lot, they have served me well for the past two yrs. I may look into getting more, if I don't go with the Alien Bees.

Tim, thanks for your advice, and info you have provided.

Robert, I have just finished reading your thread, where you tested the various studio strobes, and I must say that I am now starting to rethink my Alien Bees idea.
The only thing I am worried about, is that I only have about $1500 to spend on three lights, and the modifiers. That also includes speedrings, which comes with the Alien Bees units. The D-lites seem the way to go, but how much are the modifiers going to cost me?

I have to stay in my budget, so I have to balance between lights and modifiers.

[form]

I know a photographer who believes firmly in speedotrons, and her reasoning is that they produce very consistent color temperature, much better than bees.

[TMR Design]

Thanks everyone, for your replies.

form, I have two of the 3' octaboxes from Amvona. I like them a lot, they have served me well for the past two yrs. I may look into getting more, if I don't go with the Alien Bees.

Tim, thanks for your advice, and info you have provided.

Robert, I have just finished reading your thread, where you tested the various studio strobes, and I must say that I am now starting to rethink my Alien Bees idea.
The only thing I am worried about, is that I only have about $1500 to spend on three lights, and the modifiers. That also includes speedrings, which comes with the Alien Bees units. The D-lites seem the way to go, but how much are the modifiers going to cost me?

I have to stay in my budget, so I have to balance between lights and modifiers.

Hey Chris,

There is no doubt the the entire line of Elinchrom strobes are outstanding and the D-Lite's are an amazing value. I use 2 D-Lite 4's and 2 D-Lite 2's and they are excellent. Pop to pop consistency is as good as it gets and color temperature shift is among the best.

When budget is a major concern then it's hard to get around the pricing on Bees and the modifiers made by PCB. Using standard modifiers on the D-Lite's requires the appropriate speed ring and unfortunately modifiers are not shipped with the speed ring. The AB foldable boxes have the speed ring attached, so there is an added expense in using other strobes inaddition to the cost of the modifiers themselves being slightly more expensive.

For me the difference is noticeable and I've chosen to buy Elinchrom and other products despite the higher cost.

As long as you have the appropriate speed ring you use just about any brand modifier you like including the Elinchrom proprietary Octa's, which are highly praised for the quality and evenness of light.

[Chris71]

Thank you Robert, you have been most helpfull in giving me the information that I need to make my decision.

Now all I need to do is make it!

[Rudi]

The D-lites seem the way to go, but how much are the modifiers going to cost me?

Like Robert, I couldn't go past the D-Lites. I shoot with 2 D-Lite 4's and the Portalite softboxes supplied with the kit (better than I expected). I added the 53" Octa Midi ($309 at B&H) and some bits and pieces - snoot and grid, standard reflector with a set of grids, and an umbrella reflector. I can shoot whatever I want with the gear I have, but to be honest with you - for portraits, the 53" Octa Midi is my bread and butter! I can (and have) made more money with that one light than the rest of my outfit!

I'm not saying that that is all I will ever need (or you for that matter), but a D-Lite kit and the Octa Midi is a great start, and might be all you need for quite a while. You can get all that for well under $1500, and let me tell you now - you will NEVER regret buying Elinchrom!

[Chris71]

Thanks for your input Rudi.

I am kicking around the idea, of just getting two D-lite 4's instead of three Alien Bees. There are just so many options out there, when it comes to softboxes and modifiers. I will most likely go with a big octabox, the rest I am still debating over.

[Rudi]

Chris,

A D-Lite 4 kit will set you back $850 - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=478443&is=REG

The Octa Midi is $308 - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/176942-REG/Elinchrom_EL_26184_Midi_Octa_Light_Bank.html

Another D-Lite 4 strobe is only $335 - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/478438-REG/Elinchrom_EL_20482_D_Lite4_400_W_S_Monolight.html

So all that is still under $1500 - all you have to do is get a cheap light stand, and you're on-budget (or only very slightly over), you have three Elinchrom strobes instead of AB, and you have three Elinchrom softboxes (instead of AB).

What is there to think about??? :D

[Chris71]

Rudi, on the kit you have listed, the boxes are only 21"x21" and 25"x25". They seem kind of small, are they very usefull?

One more question, does the D-lite 4 have an umbrella bracket?

[Rudi]

I have found the original Portalite softboxes more useful than I thought I would. A large softbox is not always the right answer! :)

The D-Lites do have a central umbrella fitting, but you will have to use umbrellas with a 7mm shaft. If you want to use an umbrella with an 8mm shaft (or thicker), just mount the D-Lite on an umbrella bracket (that's what I do). I highly recommend this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546375-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_026_026_Swivel_Umbrella_Adapter.ht ml

[Chris71]

Have you had any problems with yours getting hot, not being fan cooled?

[Rudi]

Mine are fan-cooled.

[Chris71]

On the BH website, it says that the D-lite4 is not fan cooled. Your saying they are?

[Rudi]

Mine are, and all the new kits are, AFAIK. I dunno if B&H have any old stock left...

[Chris71]

Ok, thanks for the info!

[tmonatr]

Have you looked at the Calumet Genesis 400's? I've seen alot of good reports about them. You can search "Genesis" on POTN.
Here's link to product page:http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0514K1/

[Chris71]

Not yet, I tried to get on their website earlier but it was not working. Looks like it is now, I will look into them.

[darktiger]

The first time I tried to assemble a soft box it took ages, the instructions that come with them suck. Once I looked at the instructions online and a friend who happened to pop around had a look too it was pretty quick, now it takes me a few minutes to assemble a soft box.

You mean you got instructions? They must of forgot mine.

[TMR Design]

Regarding D-Lite's being fan cooled. This is also something that's been discussed and we've found the answers.

All current D-Lite's in production are fan cooled. From what I've seen in my purchases and others here on POTN, we know that the individual strobes are the fan cooled version. We're not sure about old stock on the kits that B&H and Adorama have. Some people ordered the kit and got the older version. Unfortunately in all of this B&H isn't even aware of the product change and stock numbers are identical, so unless you can get them to do a physical check or you open the boxes in a store you don't know what you're getting. But that only goes for the kits, not the standalone lights.

[dragulaz]

Sounds like it's still a crap shoot which version you will get (if you order the kit) based on the previous posts. So I'll chime in with my experience with the non-fan cooled versions. My d-lite2 kit came with non-fan cooled lights and I have not had any problems. I stressed over it at first, but after using them for a few months I forgot all about it. They work great, and I haven't noticed any overheating. My Elinchrom purchase was one of the best decisions that I made when it comes to photography equipment.

[TMR Design]

Hey Bret,

I can say the same. I have a set of D-Lite 2's that are fan cooled and a set of D-Lite 4's that are not fan cooled and even with the modeling light on full the unit barely gets warm and I've had no overheating problems at all. I haven't tried using a grid or accessories that would tend to block the flow of air but I don't really see any issue. I wouldn't actually stress over it or make it the deciding factor.

[hawk911]

Chris, the D4 softboxes that come with the kit aren't wasted space; just not enough for more than 1/2 body shots. I bought a bigger softbox from backdrop outlet, and use the universal finger-clamp speedring until I buy some foamex rings to replace it. If you're buying the bigger octo, then you could sell the smaller boxes and offset the other costs.

[Chris71]

Chris, the D4 softboxes that come with the kit aren't wasted space; just not enough for more than 1/2 body shots. I bought a bigger softbox from backdrop outlet, and use the universal finger-clamp speedring until I buy some foamex rings to replace it. If you're buying the bigger octo, then you could sell the smaller boxes and offset the other costs.

Thanks for the info hawk!

I may have a little more $ in my budget, than I thought. I am seriously looking at the D-Lite 4 now.

I had found a site yesterday, that had a whole bunch of D-lite 2 and D-lite 4 combos, but I can not for the life of me, find it again.

On the other hand, I would hate to buy a kit, and get the non fan cooled version. I know ya'll have said that it is not an issue, with them getting hot, but I would just feel like I got ripped off if I paid the same price, and got the non version.

[TMR Design]

Your best bet is to locate a place that either you or a store salesperson can actually do a physical check. That is the only way to know for sure if you're getting the fan cooled version. One way that I've found to tell is that if the kit price is ultra good that usually means that they are the older ones.

If you know someone in a shop or retailer maybe you can work out a deal so that if you get the ones without the fans that he'll exchange or swap them out for you once he is shipped the newer ones.

[hawk911]

for the record, my D4 kit is NOT fan-cooled.

[TMR Design]

Hey Hawk,

By pair of D-Lite 4's are not fan cooled either. No problems whatsoever. The D-Lite 2's are fan cooled and to the touch there is a slight temperature difference of the bodies.

[hawk911]

oh- I'm not saying I've had a problem. I've had softboxes only on the lights, no snoots/grids, etc and never had one shut down on me yet. Shooterman has had his shut down, but just briefly.

[pepperoni]

Back to the softbox suggestion, I'd recommend these from AB:
Large folding Octa (it could be bigger, but it's pretty good as is)
Large folding softbox
Beauty dish (not on your list, but almost a must have IMO)

I've seen the AB strip box and it's pretty darn small. If you need a larger strip box on a budget, I'd go with the Photoflex half dome (15" x 55" vs. 10" x 36").

Just my $.02

[Chris71]

Ok, I want to thank everyone who has given advice on the strobes so far, but I would like to get back to my original dilema. I feel I have enough information, to make an informed decision on the brand of lights, but that still leaves me wondering which modifiers to get for them.

So far, I am pretty sure that I will be getting a large octabox. Something in the 53"-60" range. That still leaves me needing at least one more modifier, two more if I get three lights. I have heard a couple of suggestions so far, but I would like to hear more from you.

I have two shoot through umbrellas, tow bounce umbrellas, and two 3' octaboxes, so I am looking for either strip boxes, rectangle softboxes, or whatever would be the most versatile.

Thanks,
Chris

[Wilt]

My vote is for the medium softbox, the large softbox, and the stripbox!

[Chris71]

My vote is for the medium softbox, the large softbox, and the stripbox!

Thanks Wilt,

So your saying, that you would eliminate the octabox altogether?
Why do you like the rectangle boxes better than the octa?

[Wilt]

Thanks Wilt,

So your saying, that you would eliminate the octabox altogether?
Why do you like the rectangle boxes better than the octa?

I hate any shape which does not normally occur in the course of every day life! Rectangular boxes can appear to be windows in the catchlights of the eyes...what has an octagonal shape besides an umbrella?! And what umbrella emits light, apart from the one a photographer sets up :(

[Chris71]

Good point Wilt. Thanks for the input.

Chris

[Wilt]

I would suggest Photoflex softboxes over AB softboxes, too.

[Chris71]

I assume, that is because of build quality?

[Wilt]

Not that AB is 'not good'...I simply have no familiarity with them! And I know that Photoflex fits speedrings for many other brands of flashes, so there is no possibility of a dead-end expense.

[TMR Design]

Even if you went with the AB strobes I would go with Photoflex boxes. The AB speed ring works perfectly.

[Chris71]

So if I go with AB lights, and Photoflex boxes, I would still use the AB speedrings?

[TMR Design]

So if I go with AB lights, and Photoflex boxes, I would still use the AB speedrings?

Yup!! .. and the AB speed ring is only $30 compared to the Photoflex ring which runs about $50.

[Chris71]

Yup!! .. and the AB speed ring is only $30 compared to the Photoflex ring which runs about $50.

Nice!