To charge or not to charge? (really long post)

[mamato3]

First of all, I'm a Mom to 3 small children and I don't work outside the home. My job before my babies was unrelated to photography, although it's been a passion/hobby for a long time.

About a year ago, some family members/friends started asking me here and there if I would be willing to take some photos for them (family photos, babies), and insisted on paying me.. it was like "Alright fine, how about $40?".

Fast forward to present and now I've been doing little sessions here and there for friends of friends, etc., and raised my fee. OK, this is embarassing, my last few I've done, I've been paid $75. I've given them no prints, but a disc with full res, edited images. The problem is now some of my "clients" are becoming people I don't know, who are happy to be getting a great deal rather than family/friends who are happy with my photos and want to pay me a bit for my time. Are you still with me? (sorry)

I know I've gotten myself into this and should have thought this through long ago. I still feel like I'm not good enough to get a website and really promote myself as a "pro". I'm way better than I was, but the more I learn and more time I spend on here, I know I still have a ways to go.

I'm sure you know where I'm going with all this babble:

Should I:

a) Stop charging people entirely and wait until I'm really good before I set up shop, so to speak. This would be really hard, because the money I've made has allowed me to purchase a 24-70L, and I really want a 5D;) I would do it, if I figure out it's the right thing to do.

b) Keep doing what I'm doing, and slowly raise my rate as I get out of "practice mode"

c) Charge more now, becaue my time is worth it and if people like what I do, they'll pay me for it.

If you're still reading, thank you.
If you wish to offer helpful advice, it would be most appreciated.
If you wish to see the type of photos I take, I have a few on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/images_by_vicki/)

Thanks for reading my novel. I know that no one can tell me what to do, I'm just hoping maybe someone has been in a similar situation and can offer a little advice.

[elysium]

Congrats on your little setup Vicki.

Keep charging people even if you don't know since they will most likely expect to be paying for a shoot.

I say go for option b. Keep charging what you are, let people have shots taken for the price you are charging now since it seems to be working. If they wish to have prints, inform them that this will be an additional fee. That way they have the option.

Once you are more established and have clients on a more regular basis, then I would see yourself charging more.

Do let us know how you get on.

[Jim G]

Looking at even the first page of photos you have up on your Flickr your work is better than some of the local portrait/wedding photogs I know and they charge $150-250 per 2-hr portrait session (Australian dollars in the largest non-capital city in the country for some perspective).

I'd draw up a pricing scale and let people know that you've set up shop properly; even if you don't want to increase the amount you're charging I'd stop giving out cds of high-res stuff, perhaps offering that as an additional extra for $$.

My 0.02, anyway.

[mamato3]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys. I think you're both basically saying the same thing.
Charge extra for prints, or high res images. I do like the idea of charging for prints for the quality control aspect. I know many people will go print at Walmart or somewhere and then who knows how the photos will look?
I guess the longer I wait to change things, the harder it will be.
hmmm... food for thought.
Thanks again

[tim]

Keep charging, raise your prices or stop giving out a CD and charge for prints. Pro's rarely offer disks from portrait sessions, and good portrait photographers can make sales of thousands of dollars. Some of the really good ones (not the absolute best) charge $1000 for a single framed wall image. A single 6x4 can cost $50-$150 - you're not charging for the paper, you're charging for your talent and your time.

You might want to change things gradually - maybe to start with offer digital files with prints.

[Wazza]

If you're pleased with your results, fast forward to C :)

[riyazi]

I have to agree with Jim G - your flickr pics look great and I am sure there are a lot worse photographers out there who charge much more than you do

My opinion (even though I am not a professional)
I think you should start structuring your charges in to 2 categories - those you know personally and those you dont.

For those you know personally - keep increasing the charge slightly while giving them the cd - after all its through them that you got such oppurtunities to shoot and improve and also they are the ones who give you referrals to more business. However, make sure that they know they are getting a discoutned / special rate not available to otheres

For those you dont know / referred by others - you should give a set of options such as 10 pics, 20 pics, etc with the highest price for CD option so that they can choose the package they want. You could also give them the option of discounts for future shoots based on their own referrals.

[neilwood32]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys. I think you're both basically saying the same thing.
Charge extra for prints, or high res images. I do like the idea of charging for prints for the quality control aspect. I know many people will go print at Walmart or somewhere and then who knows how the photos will look?
I guess the longer I wait to change things, the harder it will be.
hmmm... food for thought.
Thanks again

If your worried about people printing your photos at cheap outlets and making them look bad, try doing it yourself at some of the online printers who will do a brilliant job quality wise. Not sure whos available over there but i reckon theres a lot of them. Plus you can get the printing done without any overhead cost (printer and ink are expensive)

[tim]

People often say they're worried about bad prints, but i've never had even a one hour photo place really stuff up a properly prepared image. If they printed it at home, maybe, but most labs are at least competent - at least where I am.

[Lunajen]

I would charge them $75.00 sitting fee and then they can purchase the prints separately. Never give them high Res pictures on CD. I do that for friends but that is about it.
I have a Pro account with smugmug and people purchase directly from there after viewing their images. Then I get a check in the mail later.

[mamato3]

Keep charging, raise your prices or stop giving out a CD and charge for prints. Pro's rarely offer disks from portrait sessions, and good portrait photographers can make sales of thousands of dollars. Some of the really good ones (not the absolute best) charge $1000 for a single framed wall image. A single 6x4 can cost $50-$150 - you're not charging for the paper, you're charging for your talent and your time.
That kind of blows me away, even though I've seen those kind of prices listed on some websites. I don't see many that offer discs, and I do understand why now.

I have to agree with Jim G - your flickr pics look great and I am sure there are a lot worse photographers out there who charge much more than you do
Thank you, prehaps there are.

My opinion (even though I am not a professional)
I think you should start structuring your charges in to 2 categories - those you know personally and those you dont.

For those you know personally - keep increasing the charge slightly while giving them the cd - after all its through them that you got such oppurtunities to shoot and improve and also they are the ones who give you referrals to more business. However, make sure that they know they are getting a discoutned / special rate not available to otheres

For those you dont know / referred by others - you should give a set of options such as 10 pics, 20 pics, etc with the highest price for CD option so that they can choose the package they want. You could also give them the option of discounts for future shoots based on their own referrals.

Thanks for your ideas, they make sense to me. I couldn't start charging more to the people who I've practiced on and who've given me referals. I live in a city where businesses very much rely on word of mouth, and where there is a lot of competition - that's why I want to be careful about jumping in too soon.
I like your ideas of giving package options, too.

If your worried about people printing your photos at cheap outlets and making them look bad, try doing it yourself at some of the online printers who will do a brilliant job quality wise. Not sure whos available over there but i reckon theres a lot of them. Plus you can get the printing done without any overhead cost (printer and ink are expensive)
They're mostly in the US, I think, and they charge big shipping $ to Canada. We do have a local pro printing shop, though, they're very good.

People often say they're worried about bad prints, but i've never had even a one hour photo place really stuff up a properly prepared image. If they printed it at home, maybe, but most labs are at least competent - at least where I am.
We have one or two places who do nice "one hour" prints - I always recommend these places to my clients. There are a few others that are questionable, though. In all fairness, I haven't used them recently, so perhaps they deserve another chance, since my pp has improved (slightly).

Thanks so much for the great replies. You are all so nice and supportive. This site has been the source of the most useful photography info I've ever recieved.
I just want to know that every time I show up at a session, that I'm going to be able to produce something my clients will love. Right now, I may get some images that they love, but it takes me forever to walk around, find the right light, set up, find the right exposure, etc. I suppose it's the end result that's most important. I also take many, many hours to edit, because I approach every set of images as a photoshop lesson, I try to learn a few new things each time.
For this reason, it will take me up to a month sometimes to get people's images to them. I don't have any idea how this compares to others, but I would really like to improve so I can be faster and all these things become more intuitive.

[scorpio_e]

Your work looks professional and certainly worth the money. I would go route B and proceed slowly:)

[Floriantrojer.com]

Only just briefly looked at your first page of photos at flickr.....very beautiful work, certainly competitive imo!!

It's more or less all been said, just another word.....be confident. :)
I learned the hard way that one as a photographer is W A Y to self-critical, and people who don't know anything about using a cam professionally LOVE (and willingly pay for) photos you personally don't like very much.

Your photographs are excellent, charge for them and get yourself a nice 5D ;)

[Billo78]

I have to agree with Jim G - your flickr pics look great and I am sure there are a lot worse photographers out there who charge much more than you do

My opinion (even though I am not a professional)
I think you should start structuring your charges in to 2 categories - those you know personally and those you dont.

For those you know personally - keep increasing the charge slightly while giving them the cd - after all its through them that you got such oppurtunities to shoot and improve and also they are the ones who give you referrals to more business. However, make sure that they know they are getting a discoutned / special rate not available to otheres

For those you dont know / referred by others - you should give a set of options such as 10 pics, 20 pics, etc with the highest price for CD option so that they can choose the package they want. You could also give them the option of discounts for future shoots based on their own referrals.

Riyazi took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm in a similar situation to you, started doing a few portraits for mates for cheap lately, haven't done any friends of friends yet though. My view is that if I can get some beautiful family photos done for a friend at a discount rate then they're happy because they've got a good deal and I'm happy because my friends now have some memories of their kids that they'll treasure for ever and I've at least got some payment for it.

When it comes to people I don't know I'm far less concerned about giving them a warm fuzzy feeling. The bottom line is I'm not going to spend a couple of hours after work (or on a weekend) going to a stranger's house, shooting their family, another few hours editing the images and burning them to disc unless it makes sense financially.

As a side note my most recent family shoot was on Monday of last week, the day before I'd taken 1100+ images at the Wimbledon final, and the day before that I'd taken 1200+ images at my first wedding. Having 20Gb of photos to go through wasn't a particularly appealing prospect and if the family portraits weren't for friends I wouldn't have been feeling that good about receiving minimal payment.

[mamato3]

Your work looks professional and certainly worth the money. I would go route B and proceed slowly
__________________
thank you, that sounds good.

Only just briefly looked at your first page of photos at flickr.....very beautiful work, certainly competitive imo!!

It's more or less all been said, just another word.....be confident.
I learned the hard way that one as a photographer is W A Y to self-critical, and people who don't know anything about using a cam professionally LOVE (and willingly pay for) photos you personally don't like very much.

Your photographs are excellent, charge for them and get yourself a nice 5D
__________________

Thank you so much for the compliments- I really wasn't expecting that. After some of the threads I've read on this forum, I was expecting much different responses. I sometimes wonder if I'm just one of so many people who get a decent camera and they take a couple of good shots, and they say "oh, I think I'll become a photographer now". I like your advice, though - i think i'll just go ahead and get that 5D (I'll think I'll get it before i make that money, then my images will be better sooner- hehe.
You're so right, though - deep down I know that with more confidence I could make it all happen for me!

Riyazi took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm in a similar situation to you, started doing a few portraits for mates for cheap lately, haven't done any friends of friends yet though. My view is that if I can get some beautiful family photos done for a friend at a discount rate then they're happy because they've got a good deal and I'm happy because my friends now have some memories of their kids that they'll treasure for ever and I've at least got some payment for it.

When it comes to people I don't know I'm far less concerned about giving them a warm fuzzy feeling. The bottom line is I'm not going to spend a couple of hours after work (or on a weekend) going to a stranger's house, shooting their family, another few hours editing the images and burning them to disc unless it makes sense financially.

As a side note my most recent family shoot was on Monday of last week, the day before I'd taken 1100+ images at the Wimbledon final, and the day before that I'd taken 1200+ images at my first wedding. Having 20Gb of photos to go through wasn't a particularly appealing prospect and if the family portraits weren't for friends I wouldn't have been feeling that good about receiving minimal payment.

Interesting.. I can totally see where you coming from there. I guess I have a ways to go before I'm in that situation. Right now, i do still enjoy giving even strangers that warm fuzzy feeling. I'm sure as I go, I'll start to get more into the business/making money aspect, that could all change. I just figure as long as I still love doing it, I'll be happy. That probably makes me sound naive. I just know that I'd rather do this than anything, I just need to combine that with a better business sense, i think!!

Thanks again everyone for all your comments.
I really thought I would hear don't charge money until you're really as good as a pro.
I still don't think I am, but maybe with a ton more practice and a bit more confidence, I'll get there! I am going to start charging for prints, I think. I'm going to figure all that out real soon!!

[melissaandkris]

Keep charging, raise your prices or stop giving out a CD and charge for prints.

I say follow Tim's advice. I asked a quesion about what to charge a while back and he said my prices were way to cheap. I had done quite a few cheap shoots for friends and families at church and then others saw them and wanted to schedule a shoot so I raised my prices quite a bit but still not high enough to be "professional" prices since Im still learning. I still see things in my pictures that I need to work on but I am the most critical about them...the customers have loved them. I put my final images up for them to preview and then get their package order and then I order them from MPIX. This has worked out really well.

Your work is beautiful and definitely worthy of being charged for.

[mamato3]

I say follow Tim's advice. I asked a quesion about what to charge a while back and he said my prices were way to cheap. I had done quite a few cheap shoots for friends and families at church and then others saw them and wanted to schedule a shoot so I raised my prices quite a bit but still not high enough to be "professional" prices since Im still learning. I still see things in my pictures that I need to work on but I am the most critical about them...the customers have loved them. I put my final images up for them to preview and then get their package order and then I order them from MPIX. This has worked out really well.

Your work is beautiful and definitely worthy of being charged for.

Thanks very much for your response. I've still been struggling with this. I talked to a couple of friends about what I was thinking of doing. I said I might start charging for prints instead, and they both said " oh ,I hate that!"

Now, this is a tough call.

Do I give my clients what they want (the CD), or do I structure my business to make money? I think I need to improve my business skills along with my photography and pp skills. aaaah!

The last session I did, I gave her more than 100 images at full res on a CD, plus a slideshow. When I worked it out to hourly, I think I made about $2 an hour. Nevermind about wear and tear on my gear.

I have lots more thinking, planning, and learning to do!

[melissaandkris]

Thanks very much for your response. I've still been struggling with this. I talked to a couple of friends about what I was thinking of doing. I said I might start charging for prints instead, and they both said " oh ,I hate that!"

Now, this is a tough call.

Do I give my clients what they want (the CD), or do I structure my business to make money? I think I need to improve my business skills along with my photography and pp skills. aaaah!

The last session I did, I gave her more than 100 images at full res on a CD, plus a slideshow. When I worked it out to hourly, I think I made about $2 an hour. Nevermind about wear and tear on my gear.

I have lots more thinking, planning, and learning to do!

You sound like me...Trying to please everyone! I know it's nice to do something for friends and family but if you've given them a few shoots and now your ready to start charging they should be supportive of you, otherwise there kinda taking advantage. If they owned say a restaurant...would they let you come eat for free all the time? No, probably not. Photography is hard work, there is a lot that goes into it that people dont see. Then if your like me and want it to be perfect or near perfect, especially when people are paying their hard-earned money for it, there is a certain amount of stress that goes along with it as well.

Start charging, stop giving away CDs and feel confident that you are providing families with great photos to remember and cherish!

[tim]

To build up a photography business you need a great portfolio and a great business model. Until you take great photos consistently you can't charge top $$$, but if you start out charging peanuts you'll have have to find a whole new set of customers once you increase your prices. Since we haven't seen your photos we don't know where you are.

My suggestion is to never give out digital images. You never know how badly people are going to stuff things up when you give them out. A more polite way of saying it is something like "I put a lot of time and effort into making prints, if I give you a CD that doesn't get done and the quality suffers. Since the photos are often displayed and my name associated with them this makes me look bad to potential customers, and I can't take that risk". I wrote that quickly, it's not worded well, but you get the idea.

Summary: no digital images for portraits, or if you do price them higher than your biggest print, include full retouching and a print with it. Charge well for your prints, remember they compensate you for your time, equipment, and investment in learning how to take good photos.

[mamato3]

To build up a photography business you need a great portfolio and a great business model. Until you take great photos consistently you can't charge top $$$, but if you start out charging peanuts you'll have have to find a whole new set of customers once you increase your prices. Since we haven't seen your photos we don't know where you are.

Well, I agree with this. I am working on getting to the point where my photo quality is consistent. I do worry that I'll have to find a whole new set of clients once I raise my prices. And yet I don't feel ready to really put myself out there. Maybe it's lack of confidence, maybe lack of skills, experience,or bit of it all. I was thinking maybe in a year I'll put together a website and raise prices. I know I have to work my butt until then to improve. I guess I take the risk that once I do raise my prices, all my past clients won't want to pay that much. In the meantime, I have 2 clients booked this weekend, who I've never met before and I've already promised them full res on discs for peanuts!!

Ahhhh...

Here's my Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/images_by_vicki/collections/72157605325721773/) again

[tim]

It'd be easier to find new customers with a great portfolio than be cheap with a poor portfolio. You need a website NOW. I get 90% of my business though my website, 10% from referrals but they visit my website before they call me anyway.

[mamato3]

It'd be easier to find new customers with a great portfolio than be cheap with a poor portfolio
I'm not sure I follow - do you think I'm cheap and have a poor portfolio? Or that whatever portfolio I have should be on a website?
I guess it's pretty tacky to give clients my flickr site, isn't it? Regardless of quality.

I know this has been asked a thousand or more times, but how much will a decent website cost me to have built? Perhaps I'll just check that out myself. Just bought a 5D, so cash is tight!!

[tim]

Flickr isn't professional. I have no idea if you're cheap or if you have a poor portfolio, you haven't given us that information. You said you're new so I assume both ;)

A bludomain website costs $200-$800, you can let them host it but they're absolutely shocking at it, if you host at the same place as me it's about $100/year, plus $10 for domain registration.

[dbvirago]

I agree with Tim. Easiest thing would be to keep your price the same, but start charging for prints. Now your $75 becomes a sitting fee and hopefully, you make your money from selling prints

[mamato3]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Tim. Easiest thing would be to keep your price the same, but start charging for prints. Now your $75 becomes a sitting fee and hopefully, you make your money from selling prints
Yes, that would be the easiest. Thanks.


Flickr isn't professional. I have no idea if you're cheap or if you have a poor portfolio, you haven't given us that information. You said you're new so I assume both

A bludomain website costs $200-$800, you can let them host it but they're absolutely shocking at it, if you host at the same place as me it's about $100/year, plus $10 for domain registration.

I realize flickr isn't professional. If you're assuming my portfolio is poor (I did supply the closest thing I have - flickr) and I'm cheap (I did say exactly what I'm charging), then why would you say I should have a website now?
I don't understand what good it could possibly do to have a website up which contains a poor portfolio? And how could I possibly expect people to pay the same way other pros are being paid when my portfolio is poor? I don't understand this reasoning. Maybe you could explain please, Tim?
Thank you

[tim]

If your photos are that bad why are people hiring you? I assume you have some good photos in your portfolio. Since you haven't shown us photos or told us your prices we're flying blind here.

[mamato3]

If your photos are that bad why are people hiring you? I assume you have some good photos in your portfolio. Since you haven't shown us photos or told us your prices we're flying blind here.

OK, for what it's worth...
My "portfolio" at this point is here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/images_by_vicki/collections/72157605325721773/) I do have a lot more images that I could add to a portfolio if I were to create a website.

Right now I'm charging $100 (just raised from $75) for a session (includes a disc of high res edited photos, not prints). We've already established this needs to change somewhat.

I think people are hiring me because they see images I did for a friend, they think they're nice, and I think because the price is right. My worry is that if I raise my price (or start charging for prints), that those clients won't hire me and the ones that can afford me have a big selection of photographers who are better than me. I sound whiny, and I don't mean to. I guess what this means is that I need more confidence/skills before I spend the $ on a website.
I think I do understand what you're saying about the wesite , though. Even if my portfolio isn't great, I still need to have something professional for clients to look at when they want to see my images. I get it.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this.

[tim]

Your work is worth more than $100, as people have said. Even if you just stop selling CDs and price your prints reasonably you'd be doing a lot better than now.

[cheson74]

Your work and time is worth more then what they're paying you. Yes it's difficult because there are some family involved. However, through word of mouth, there will be people who don't know you that will expect the same pricing plan.

I'm no professional but I was in a similiar situation as you a few years ago. Friends and family would ask me to come shoot as a second shooter for weddings. In many cases, my photos were much better then the hired photographer. I was usually never paid because they're friends or family. As you can probably guess, friends of friends called and asked me to shoot their weddings and some portrait work. They expected to basically pay next to nothing because they know my friends/family members.

I didn't want to charge them anything outrageous because I didn't consider myself a pro. It got to the point where I was getting frustrated and eventually stop taking photos altogether for several years. In other words, they wanted some quality work, lots of images (instead of a select package from pro's) but not pay for it.

Raise your prices but include high quality prints. Offer them the digital files to the prints they selected. If they want all the files, charge a seperate price for that too.

[cheson74]

My worry is that if I raise my price (or start charging for prints), that those clients won't hire me and the ones that can afford me have a big selection of photographers who are better than me.

Trust me. The ones that you think are better then you usually are not! Yes there are some outstanding talent out there. A lot are on this board. However, a lot of local photographers I've seen in several states are not that good and they'll charge A LOT more then your $100 and get it.

[Steeltowndubber]

webserve.ca (http://www.webserve.ca) has some decent prices for web hosting. I use them for the 2 sites listed in my sig. Haven't had any problems with them for the 1 1/2 years I've been using them.

Note - the 2 sites are NOT photography related.

[PhotosGuy]

I have a few on flickr
How Every Flickr Photo Ended Up on Sale This Weekend (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=536358&highlight=Flickr)

Getty Images Begins Licensing Flickr Photos (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/08/AR2008070802332.html)

People often say they're worried about bad prints, but i've never had even a one hour photo place really stuff up a properly prepared image. If they printed it at home, maybe, but most labs are at least competent - at least where I am. Anyone ever have print quality issues with small shops ? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=325056)

[tim]

webserve.ca (http://www.webserve.ca) has some decent prices for web hosting. I use them for the 2 sites listed in my sig. Haven't had any problems with them for the 1 1/2 years I've been using them.

Note - the 2 sites are NOT photography related.

Hostgator (http://secure.hostgator.com/cgi-bin/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=m96rty-hr) is also great for web hosting. I host 12 sites with about 2 million hits a month, cost me US$10/month! Great service too.

[mamato3]

Thanks so much for all this info and suggestions, guys!
I'm definitely going to get a website done soon - I have a lot to learn about that (thanks for the links). I'll be sure to post it here when it's done.
I'm feeling better about raising my prices too.

I'll keep you updated.
Thanks again for all the support and advice!

[Steeltowndubber]

Also forgot to mention that webserve.ca is located in BC, just incase that makes any difference to you...

[Fingertip]

Well, if you are in "practice mode" then I must be in "duh, how do I open this box to get the camera out?" mode:lol:

I am a dad of 5 in a very similar situation, except I don't shoot nearly as good as you. I have accepted some paying work, and am getting ready to sign up with the local photo store to post my stuff on thier website, and then people go there to buy any pics they want. It's perfect for me because then I can charge very little (or nothing) and if the pics don't look good, they don't have to buy them.

Thanks for starting this thread, it has been really helpful to me. I need to go back and read a couple of pages I skipped over now.

[mamato3]

Also forgot to mention that webserve.ca is located in BC, just incase that makes any difference to you...
Oh yeah, good to know! I'll check them out.

Well, if you are in "practice mode" then I must be in "duh, how do I open this box to get the camera out?" mode
That's funny!
Thanks for your reply and compliment.
Good luck with the photo store set-up, it sound like a really good way to start out.
I'm glad someone else was helped by this thread, too. I know it's helped me a lot.

My husband gave me the green light to spend some $ on a website. Now I need to do my research and figure it all out!
Thanks again

[Kadath]

Keep in mind that I am NOT a pro nor do I intend ever to be. But.

From what I can tell the actual 'shooting' is only a fraction of what being a pro is all about. And it is these other areas that most people forget about but which convince me that doing this for money is a giant rabbit hole I want nothing to do with. If you are convinced that this IS something you want to get involved in you need to step up your game in the areas you havent even thought about yet.

One thing that has been glossed over completely in all of this conversation is that what you are asking about is a business. You need to be professional. You need to be thinking about acting like a professional off and on the actual job.

Do you have the accounting accounted for. Do you have the proper paperwork signed with clients to ensure that you are both protected. Are you handling the taxes correctly.

Do you have backup gear for on location shoots. Extra batteries, cards and other accessories to back up your camera so you dont look like a noob when something inevitably goes wrong with your gear.

One good place to start thinking about this 'stuff' might be Becker's B School Blog:
http://thebschoolblog.com/

[mamato3]

From what I can tell the actual 'shooting' is only a fraction of what being a pro is all about. And it is these other areas that most people forget about but which convince me that doing this for money is a giant rabbit hole I want nothing to do with. If you are convinced that this IS something you want to get involved in you need to step up your game in the areas you havent even thought about yet.

One thing that has been glossed over completely in all of this conversation is that what you are asking about is a business. You need to be professional. You need to be thinking about acting like a professional off and on the actual job.

Do you have the accounting accounted for. Do you have the proper paperwork signed with clients to ensure that you are both protected. Are you handling the taxes correctly.

Do you have backup gear for on location shoots. Extra batteries, cards and other accessories to back up your camera so you dont look like a noob when something inevitably goes wrong with your gear.

One good place to start thinking about this 'stuff' might be Becker's B School Blog:

Thanks for bringing this up. I have addressed most of this, other than the paperwork, which I did know needed to be done. For me I glossed over this simply because I've had my own business in the past and I come from a family of business owners. My brother is a CA, so I get free accounting. Having said that, with every type of business, there are new things to consider, and so I'm doing my research, asking questions, and mulling it all over many times through. I didn't realize it sounded as though these were areas I "haven't even thought about yet".
The business end of things where I feel very green is the marketing and promotion end of it- that will come.
I'm in my thirties, and since having children have really come to realize what's important to me. Without getting all philosophical, I'll just say that I don't want to spend another day doing something for money that I'm not totally passionate about on all levels.
Perhaps on here I don't seem like I'm thinking and acting like a professional, but that's because I'm here to learn from others who've been there. This people on this site are a wealth of information and are very generous in sharing that information.
I appreciate your comments. For me and others who are reading this, it's an excellent point to look at that side. It balances out the discussion.

[Steeltowndubber]

Any updates?