Don't want to admit it...new lens

[Longwatcher]

So there I was. Positively decided that I didn't have to have a new lens right now, I could wait a couple of months. All I needed was two new flash cards. I had even decided to buy from Adorama, because I knew of the evil temptation of BH.

And then it went down hill from there.

Adorama did not have the SD card I wanted in stock any more, but BH did. So I call up BH to order the cards, since I don't trust the Lexar I have and the standard Sandisk 1GB is way too slow. Both cards are Sandisk, One extreme III 1GB SD card and one ultra II 2GB CF card. And I, knowing I needed a faster card reader (my old ones being slower then the camera), asked if they had a recommendation. So while I waited for the sales rep to check for me, somehow my brain misfired and after he came back and I had decided to get two individual readers instead of a 5-in-1 (since it was cheaper that way) he asked if there was anything else. My mouth just opened and started speaking of its own accord. I know this because I had definately decided not to buy a lens at this time. When my brain worked again after giving him my credit card number, gotten a confirmation number and agreed to have it by Thursday; I found that I had ordered a new "L" lens. Yep, the TS-E 24mm/3.5L tilt-shift lens. :roll:

Nice sales rep also, asked about my camera told him I have D60, 10D and my newest toy the 1DsMKII. He said of course what other camera was there and then asked when I had gotten it and I told him that and some of the story to go along with it. He asked if I was in to architectural photography and I had to tell him no, I normally shoot models and was getting the TS because I had taken a few pictures with my 16-35 that it would have been nice to adjust the focal plane to minimize the distortion of the model in. That and it was the only lens that gave me something I did not have. He asked what other lenses I had and I said a range from 16 to 400 along with 2x and 1.4x extenders. nice long conversation. Even mentioned my thoughts on my trip to visit the store in person.

I really like the fact that when I call them up they actually spend a little bit of time talking to you, not a lot of companies do that.

Now if I can just figure out where my brain went during the few minutes I ordered that lens. All I can think is good thing I have no desire what so ever for a 500 or 600 lens. 8)

[dphoto]

Hey longwatcher,

Sounds like you have a nice setup there. I was curious about your tilt-shift purchase and how you are shooting your models. Are you shooting from a vantage point that is far below or far above them? Also, could you make the correction in PS? I understand that even if you could, you may not want to spend the time doing so if you are taking a lot of shots.

Thanks!
-Deva

[Belmondo]

Tim:
Congratulations on the new acquisition.

My 'live' experiences with B&H, really only pertain to the time I visited their store. It's a mad house, and it's hard to find people to talk to, although I'm sure the must exist. Although I've bought a lot of stuff from them, I always seem to do it online....the most impersonal way of all.

[CyberDyneSystems]

This is the trouble with finally working up the courage to lay out the cash for the big ticket items like the MkII....

Once you do that.. it just gets easier every time!!! :shock:

I mean.. a TS lens is a mere drop in the bucket compared to a MkII!!! :rolleyes:

Cut up your cards now! :lol:

[Longwatcher]

Hey longwatcher,

Sounds like you have a nice setup there. I was curious about your tilt-shift purchase and how you are shooting your models. Are you shooting from a vantage point that is far below or far above them? Also, could you make the correction in PS? I understand that even if you could, you may not want to spend the time doing so if you are taking a lot of shots.

Thanks!
-Deva

Thanks, My goal with equipment has been making sure that within my budget and technology limits that my equipment does not limit what I can do artistically, that rather I become the limitation to the equipment. I can take some great pictures with a 3.1MP P&S, but as my equipment has improved so has my photography, I presumed through my D60 purchase it had been 1 part experience and 9 parts equipment, Then after I got my 10D and studio lights it was 50/50 and now it is more 8 experience to 2 equipment. The equipment is still making a slight difference though, but less as I built up my collection. I consider the limts to my straight portrait-head shots to be 99% experience at this point and only on the artistic body shots do I see equipment still limiting me for what I shoot. I note though if I shot sports, I would be needing some slightly different tools.

I do most of the shots "tethered" as I call it, with my camera on a tripod, hooked up to the flash, with a remote switch in my hand. It is not hooked up to the computer. I usually use a 28-70L or for head shots my 70-200/2.8L IS. But every so often during the shoot, I will come off the tripod, lose the remote and do some close up shots with my 16-35. They are from all sorts of different angles. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. Some of my favorites have the camera looking up at the model, but a few have it looking down. I just a take a bunch and see what works out. The tricky part always being making sure I don't get in the way of the lights.

The reason for the TS is I noticed though that in some cases if I could adjust the focal plane a bit some of the ones that didn't work would have. And yes I know I could do some perspective correction in PS, but being the image analyst that I am, I would know I corrected it after the fact and it would reduce the area I could crop in. I would rather get the full range of the sensor from the get go.

Lastly I expect it to just give me some cool artistic abilities.

[dphoto]

Very cool! When you are taking "teathered" shots like that, is it a problem if the model moves around a lot, or do you direct him/her not to move so much? Or do you shoot with a lot of space around the model to allow some movement?

Hehe... yes you could get creative with the TS lens, and for the sake of humanity, at least go out and take a few architecture shots with that thing! :D

Thanks again!
-Deva

[iwatkins]

You are a very bad man !!! Good on you. :)

When you get the TS lens, can you put it on the 10D and do some shots of cars and buildings for me. Nothing fancy, just to show it will work a decent amount on the x1.6 factor.

I've been close to buying this lens for nearly four months now and still cannot decide.

Cheers

Ian

[Longwatcher]

Very cool! When you are taking "teathered" shots like that, is it a problem if the model moves around a lot, or do you direct him/her not to move so much? Or do you shoot with a lot of space around the model to allow some movement?
-Deva

The word "CROP" comes to mind

On most "tethered" shots I try to provide enough room for the model to move in about a 2-3ft radius from the center start point. More then that and the lighting changes too much, as well as I have to repoint my camera or move the model. I am frequently not even looking through the viewfinder for most shots, I just check occasionally to make sure she is still in frame and the camera is still set correctly. On the rest of the shots or when I know I have a good pose for that model I will slow down and look through my Angle Finder C (I forgot to mention that above) and make sure everything is just right and maybe even zoom in a touch so I have to do less cropping (or none) later.

On the other hand when I do head/portrait shots or am after something very specific (like for a set advert shot) then I will frame correctly for max resolution.

My target print size is 16x24, although I tend to actually only print them as 13x19 due to printer limits. So as long as I have enough pixels for that I am happy. With my D60/10D I would sometimes not be able to make it and still have it look nice, but with my 1DsMkII I so far have had plenty of room for cropping within the bounds I operate when needed.
For Trivia: I probably crop to some extent about 60% of the shots I print out and 90% if they are for web only (not counting for sensor format to print format (4x6, 8.5x11, 11x17, 13x19 all different).

An interesting semi-exception are my stich shots where I take about 10 shots of a model (2 across x 5 down usually at 150-200mm) and stich together is possible. In that case I only crop the final product the absolute minimum (to get rid of blank areas), because I know nothing extraneous is in those shots. You want to talk large file sizes. Stich 10 images together into even an 8-bit TIF (darn programs won't let me do 16bit) and my computer starts choking on it. But it is very cool when it works (ie the model didn't move - much) as I can print out a life size print at full resolution with no (or little interpolation)

I am rambling so I will quit for now.

[dphoto]

The word "CROP" comes to mindHehe... yes, you narrowed my question to a single word. I suppose I could have got right to the point and asked: Crop? :D

So when using your Angle Finder C, is the model lying down? That's a cool attachment!

My target print size is 16x24, although I tend to actually only print them as 13x19 due to printer limits. So as long as I have enough pixels for that I am happy.Wow! If you don't mind my asking, who wants prints that large? Is this for advertising or something like that?

An interesting semi-exception are my stich shots where I take about 10 shots of a model (2 across x 5 down usually at 150-200mm) and stich together is possible.Now that is cool! What size would you typically print something like this at? When you're shooting your individual frames, how much do you overlap them? About 50%? That must be a challenge on a human subject, but I bet the results are great. I am definitely going to give that a try!

I am rambling so I will quit for now.Hehe, no, I'm fascinated, so please, ramble on! :D It sounds like you are doing a lot of great stuff with your camera. Thanks for sharing!!

-Deva

[Longwatcher]

Now that I am home...
Overlap for stich shots seems to work best at about 20-25%, but it seems to be good enough with at least 15% and not more then 40% of overlap. At least with both PS CS and Canon's photo stich. More then 40% and especially in PS some strange artifacts start creeping in, less then 15% and sometimes it won't merge the two prints correctly.

For the times I have printed them I have used my Canon i9900 and glued them together with care, patience and an old photo interpreter mosaic trick*. I have checked into the cost of having them printed as a print or poster. The cost is prohibitive, unless I knew they were going to sale, I mainly have been doing them for fun.

As to print size, although my target size is 16x24 and I normally only print to 13x19. Those prints, when not for fun, are either for Advert posters or art prints. To date I have only had one print printed at 16x20 and it is hanging on a wall in a corporate office in Chantilly, VA. My standard is 8.5 x 11, which is what I mostly produce for the models for their portfolios. I will by request do 4x6 or 5x7, but avoid those because they just don't tend to do the photos justice and always look more like snapshots to me. Luckily it is mostly mom and girlfriend requesting the 4x6 of family outings 8/ I have done a few two-sided 5x7 comp cards for models though.

As to Angle Finder C
Nope the model is not necessarily laying down (although sometimes she is). I just found that at 6ft even (okay technically 5ft 11 3/4 inches, close enough) with the models at 5' 4" on average that my camera needs to be down at least 8 inches lower then I would like it, so with the angle finder C I save a lot of neck strain. Plus it is easier to focus and when I do go for a ground level shot it saves my neck even more pain. Smartest thing I have bought to date was the Angle Finder C (especially after I discovered the diopter had to be at 0 on the camera to get it to work as intended). I also found it is quicker to look where the camera is pointed at when it is on a tripod. The only negative if I loose a bit of viewfinder in the process (like all that data at the bottom) but since I am usually in Manual and can see it from the lcd at top anyway - no problem.

* This being a trick of illusion all I can tell you is it involves an exacto or industrial razor blade, a technique called feathering and learning that curves are harder to see then straight lines. Oh and a couple of spare prints to cover your mistakes :o

[iwatkins]

* This being a trick of illusion all I can tell you is it involves an exacto or industrial razor blade, a technique called feathering and learning that curves are harder to see then straight lines. Oh and a couple of spare prints to cover your mistakes :o

That old one ? I remember spending many a shift building mosaics from dye sub printer output (satellite imagery mainly). I still have scars between my fingers where I had the occasional slip (usually on a night shift with too little coffee).

Cheers

Ian

[Hellashot]

So there I was. Positively decided that I didn't have to have a new lens right now, I could wait a couple of months. All I needed was two new flash cards. I had even decided to buy from Adorama, because I knew of the evil temptation of BH.

And then it went down hill from there.

8)

Your mistake was buying memory cards from a camera store instead of a place that sells computer parts like newegg or zipzoomfly

[Longwatcher]

That old one ? I remember spending many a shift building mosaics from dye sub printer output (satellite imagery mainly). I still have scars between my fingers where I had the occasional slip (usually on a night shift with too little coffee).

Cheers

Ian

For me it was mostly airborne RF-4C imagery, while stationed at Zweibrucken Ab, GE, but I did put a U-2 IRIS-III panoramic camera set to good use once, now that's a lot of ground covered in a mosaic. It was one set I wished they had kept after its use as it had both the front lines of the Iraq border (Desert Storm) along with a few soon to be prisoners and almost the entire US VII corps on one mosaic. That was impressive. When I first saw the images it was one of the rare times when some very expressive words came out to the tune of "holy F*&^, somebody's going to get killed and its not going to be us!" I was always told to save those words for special occasions and I still believe that to be an appropriate circumstance for its use. You maybe had to be there.

[Adam Hicks]

You know more about this model shooting stuff than I, but if you are shooting models from the perspective that you need a TS-E, aren't you getting a lot of nostril shots? Can you post a sample or two, I think it's cool that you're trying out the TS-E lens, I just couldn't imagine the justification for a lens of that price considering the amount you'll probably end up using it.

Of course, if you already have everything else then that's the next place to play!

Adam

[Longwatcher]

And of course all of my examples that are online are at a minimum topless.

But here is the least offensive picture. The sample was taken with my 10D

*******warning link to topless picture******
----view at your own risk and only if legal for your country---.
http://www.longwatcher.com/images/CRW_6261-edit.jpg
there is also a sample on:
http://www.longwatcher.com/port_adult.html, which is my "best of" page.
******warning******

Why yes I get very close on some of my shots, that is why I like wide angle lens and a Full Frame camera that can use them...

The problem comes in because the head becomes too large or too small, while the rest of the effect is very cool (the bending on the sides) so I want to see what happens if I use a TS lens at those angles and yes they are fairly close (like about 1-2 feet from model). Even if it doesn't do what I want it to, it should still provide me with some interesting effects, which is what I want it to do.

And for a short synopsis, 16-35L, 28-70L, 50/1.4, 70-200/2.8L IS, 100-400L IS, 1.4x, 2x extenders, soon to have TS-E 24L. So I pretty much have the range covered. With 15mm fisheye, 85/1.2 and 135/2 remaining on my list. All currently for use on a 1DsMkII (or the XL2, ooh! that will be cool to see what the TS does on that); which is a way lot of money should I be stupid enough to total it up again, bad enough I have to come up with an answer for insurance purposes. See:
http://www.longwatcher.com/photoequipment.htm
for complete equipment list.

[robertwgross]

I really like the fact that when I call them up they actually spend a little bit of time talking to you, not a lot of companies do that.

That's what we call the yardstick effect.

A good salesperson can easily measure the depth of a customer's pockets that way.

---Bob Gross---

[Longwatcher]

That's what we call the yardstick effect.

A good salesperson can easily measure the depth of a customer's pockets that way.

---Bob Gross---

In this day and age all they need to do is look at my account information or do a quick internet search. I have bought a lot from BH in the past two years. I know they have my e-mail in their system even though I call them on the phone.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with Time-Life customer service a few years back, Which has always been good to me. I was thanking them for letting me know about some new CDs that had come out for a set I bought several years earlier (Yes he was trying to sell me some, but its okay I like their sets, but I almost never get the last one or two for some reason without asking) and he mentioned I was one of their premier customers. I retorted that I should be given how much I had spend over the years and he mentioned that he could see that on his screen. So I asked if it had a total. It did and it was not a small amount. I don't remember the total, but for quick math figure two 200 CD racks almost full of just TL cds at about $20 ($18-22) each CD, plus about 5 full book sets. They better like me. The only problem is their computer does not seem to remember which sets I have ordered.

[MarkH]

So there I was. Positively decided that I didn't have to have a new lens right now, I could wait a couple of months. All I needed was two new flash cards.

Now if I can just figure out where my brain went during the few minutes I ordered that lens. All I can think is good thing I have no desire what so ever for a 500 or 600 lens. 8)

The best thing would be to positively decide that you don't need either the 500 or the 600, then you'll be safe! Just make sure that your brain has no vacation plans before the next call to B&H.

[Andy_T]

Maybe it's time for you now to look up the telephone number of Cham camera in Korea :twisted:

They have some interesting offers in the used lens section now and then...

Best regards,
Andy

[Longwatcher]

It's here, It's here the new lens is here!!!

And it came with a lens ring. I can't in good conscience call it a lens hood. But it is cute.

I will get a chance to play with new toys tomorrow and maybe I will let you all see pictures (if I remember to transfer them)

For other trivia: why did the SD card come in a package that is bigger then the CF card package? Just makes you wonder...