When to stop giving away photos and start selling?

[drandtus]

My dear POTN'ers-
I recently took about 600 shots at a local paintball field during a scenario game ( an all day woodsball affair). Some I think are pretty good. The field owner said that I should sell some to the players. Originally, I was just going to host them somewhere and just let people have them.

Same type of thing last wrestling season. My kid has been wrestling for years, so my skills at this are getting better. Once again, I gave pictures to other parents. Two different sets of parents said I should be selling. Well, about 10 of my photos ended up in the yearbook. I was flattered and bummed at the same time, does that make sense? I would like to sell some images just to keep this hobby going. BTW this happens to me during football season, too.

Did a friends wedding for free. I suck. No weddings for me anytime soon. I still ended up with plenty of good images for them and I learned A TON.

So, how do I hit the brakes on the charity and charge? I really enjoy seeing the parents with pics of their kids, but at the same time I feel I might be screwing myself in the years to come. Surely, some of you were in the same quandry?

[Bishop Gideon]

I've got the same type of problem.

I've been taking pictures of my sons swimming lessons and the other kids mothers and fathers have asked me to take some shots for them. Originally I was going to give them away for free (and that's what my wife says I should do...) but these people have said "I want to buy some of your shots off you."

When do I say "No no, this is just for practice." Vs. "Sure, go to my website at www.xxxxxxxxxx.com and order some from there. The shots will be up in a few days."

[S.Horton]

If you really intend to sell, it will require a few things of you, all of which may act to reduce your enjoyment of the hobby.

1. Pro level website, minimum right-click protected
2. Discipline to inform people of the website (sales, marketing)
2a. Formal announcements and support of the athletic organization
2b. A cut of sales to the athletic organization
2c. Blowback from the professionals who have contracts with the athletic organization
3. Work to ensure that the shots are on the website
4. Work to ensure that what you post can be printed at the sizes you sell
5. Discipline not to give things away
6. Discipline to provide no-questions-asked refunds when prints are poor

I have done this. With all the parents, their cameras, their video cameras, even when they are "in awe" of your work they do not buy, because they just enjoy the web view for free. Often, they'll take a screen print of the photo when they do print. And, often, they just print at home no matter what you do from that screenprint, even if you use watermarks.

FYI, FWIW, and good luck.

[hommedars]

Just remember that there is a huge difference between people saying "you should charge" and someone saying "I will pay". People are free with their praise but very tight with their dollars.

Also ask yourself if it is photography or business that you like? The process of making a few bucks on the side can quickly turn your hobby into drudgery.

[drandtus]

If you really intend to sell, it will require a few things of you, all of which may act to reduce your enjoyment of the hobby.

1. Pro level website, minimum right-click protected
2. Discipline to inform people of the website (sales, marketing)
2a. Formal announcements and support of the athletic organization
2b. A cut of sales to the athletic organization
2c. Blowback from the professionals who have contracts with the athletic organization
3. Work to ensure that the shots are on the website
4. Work to ensure that what you post can be printed at the sizes you sell
5. Discipline not to give things away
6. Discipline to provide no-questions-asked refunds when prints are poor

I have done this. With all the parents, their cameras, their video cameras, even when they are "in awe" of your work they do not buy, because they just enjoy the web view for free. Often, they'll take a screen print of the photo when they do print. And, often, they just print at home no matter what you do from that screenprint, even if you use watermarks.

FYI, FWIW, and good luck.

Thanks for all this. I have read and reread your list and am still comfortable ( for now :rolleyes:).

I see that you use smugmug and have begun my research into this. The cost of the site is fine, although I may be in the red for a while it seems a chance I have to take.

[drandtus]

Just remember that there is a huge difference between people saying "you should charge" and someone saying "I will pay". People are free with their praise but very tight with their dollars.

Also ask yourself if it is photography or business that you like? The process of making a few bucks on the side can quickly turn your hobby into drudgery.


Wise words, for sure. It seems I have to take some initial risks to learn a bit more about my locale. I am willing so far ;)

[drandtus]

I've got the same type of problem.

I've been taking pictures of my sons swimming lessons and the other kids mothers and fathers have asked me to take some shots for them. Originally I was going to give them away for free (and that's what my wife says I should do...) but these people have said "I want to buy some of your shots off you."

When do I say "No no, this is just for practice." Vs. "Sure, go to my website at www.xxxxxxxxxx.com (http://www.xxxxxxxxxx.com) and order some from there. The shots will be up in a few days."

LOL. I clicked that link. :lol:

[airfrogusmc]

Never start giving it away then you wont have to stop.

[Joe300]

I do the same thing give them a free photo from time to time....if they only want one or two no big deal...
but now if they want a whole series of photos pick out in different sizes then I will charge them for that...


I do tell them to pass my name around for other events and weddings...its networking and PR work for a few free photos to them too!

baseball, football, dance, etc....

thanks,
Joe
"I would give them away, but my wife wont let me"
'I need the $$$ to buy more cmera gear....like the Canon 300 2.8"

[Bishop Gideon]

LOL. I clicked that link. :lol:

LOL. I was considering putting my link in there, but figured, eh, everyone will get what I mean.

So here's the new revised sentence, just for you... :)

"Sure, go to my website at www.digitalfreeze.com and order some from there. The shots will be up in a few days."

[S.Horton]

Thanks for all this. I have read and reread your list and am still comfortable ( for now :rolleyes:).

I see that you use smugmug and have begun my research into this. The cost of the site is fine, although I may be in the red for a while it seems a chance I have to take.

If I wanted to make real money, I'd be shooting video.

:eek:

In stills, if I wanted to make any money, I'd take books of prints for sale, sell them right out of the book at 5x7, take orders for 8x10, and take orders for CDs.

;)

Go get 'em!

[Mike R]

Just remember that there is a huge difference between people saying "you should charge" and someone saying "I will pay". People are free with their praise but very tight with their dollars.

Also ask yourself if it is photography or business that you like? The process of making a few bucks on the side can quickly turn your hobby into drudgery.

Speaking from experience, I agree with this statement.

I only give things to people who have already ordered from me and many become repeat customers. I have a HS football team that places a large order each year, in addition to orders form parents, and also orders a slide show for their annual banquet. They wanted to purchase a shot for the school year book, I gave it to them along with a few other shots. This year they want me to do the T&I shots, which someone else was doing for years. Good deeds, get rewarded.

[Biffbradford]

I love to shoot bicycle racing and this is the first year that I've sold any pictures. I setup a Smugmug page and have shot almost every race this season so far (>15). There are plenty of other folks at each race shooting pictures, but they are just 'snap shots' of their team, or friends. I carefully crop each picture to try and make it more 'art' than just another pic. In the last 3 months, I've had > 3,000 hits on my page, and have sold enough to almost pay for the page in the first half of the season, with the big races still to come. Even though my prices are dirt cheap, and people really seem to like them, sales are not through the roof, although several teams have purchased special pictures directly from me that they use on their web pages. If I post a few free samples to forums, they surely show up on someone's blog in a few days time so I know the demand is out there. I had some cheap business cards printed up that I hand out at races, and even had some magnetic signs that I put on my car which I conveniently park where riders see it, promoting my page. That helped web page traffic a lot!

How much to charge? Depends upon your target audience. Bike racers are not rich, most in college, but will fork over a few bucks if the picture is good. Take good pictures and you should sell some. Give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Good luck!

[TeeJay]

I've got the same type of problem.....
When do I say "No no, this is just for practice." Vs. "Sure, go to my website at www.xxxxxxxxxx.com (http://www.xxxxxxxxxx.com) and order some from there. The shots will be up in a few days."

Right now!

TJ

[Bishop Gideon]

Right now!

TJ

Well, ok then. :)

I sold 1 photo so far to my buddy, but I don't think that really counts. I get a lot of people looking, but nobody buying. I don't know if it's price or what...

[Biffbradford]

I have some pictures that I think are really great, but the subject says "aw, my arms are too straight" or my "shoulders look stiff", yet other pictures which look run of the mill to me, have sold quickly. One particular shot from April which truly was "WOW!!" went untouched for 3 months until the subject finally bought it plus several others. So, you can't make 'em buy, just shoot your best and move on. http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/images/smiles/cool2.gif

My question: How long do you leave them up on your page? I'm thinking one year, then down they come to be replaced by the same event, next season.

http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/images/smiles/hmm2.gif

[Mike R]

. So, you can't make 'em buy, just shoot your best and move on. http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/images/smiles/cool2.gif

My question: How long do you leave them up on your page? I'm thinking one year, then down they come to be replaced by the same event, next season.

http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/images/smiles/hmm2.gif

At the end of June, I posted a notice on my site that all photos will be removed on Aug. 15 to get ready for the 2008-2009 school year. This had led to a spike in site activity along with additional sales averaging $70 per order. My average sale during the season was $50.

[drandtus]

Thanks everyone for all this wonderful feedback/information. I am happy that I did pose this question to my POTN'ers.

Talked it over with the wifey and I will be setting up a site this weekend. I won't get into the smugmug/ zenfolio deal. I am just so happy all of you took your time and shared information. It has really, really helped.

Thanks,

DAVE

[S.Horton]

Good luck! Have fun, no matter what!

[inthedeck]

Here's a very informative, but very long, thread. Click here. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=474480)

[morlia]

Here's a very informative, but very long, thread. Click here. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=474480)

I just read that thread...boy that was long.

I know all of our sports guys here print on site. The prints are not great by any means, but their sales are through the roof. Alot of people just want the photo to share with grandparents, friends, etc...so they look online and share the link with who ever they want. you will get a lot of spending if people only have that day to look at the photo, and then it's gone no other chances.

just my two cents. Seriously these guys make a killing.

[drandtus]

Here's a very informative, but very long, thread. Click here. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=474480)

Thanks for that link. Great info.

[inthedeck]

anytime...good luck with the venture...should it take off.

[limited_10]

We have people all the time tell us to sell photo's of the wife..... just not sure we want to do that, I agree a lot of people tell us to sell them but dont offer to purchase them...

[zelseman]

limited_10; I have ran into the same thing with HS sports images. They can run down to the floor and tell me to take pictures of #99 and i'll make lots of money...right. I have yet to have a sale from one of these types of people.

[stillinamerica]

I think by putting a price on your photos you are putting value in your photos. When people see value they will pay.