Which flash for the G9?

[maxwolfie]

Which external flash should I buy? Something cheap, not over the top etc. Will be used mainly for hiking and mountain biking etc (fill flash in daylight).

Smaller is better as it will need to fit in my already-crammed bag.

[Bob_A]

The 430EX is a good choice if you ever want to eventually go the DSLR route. I use my old 420EX with my G9 ... works great and you can probably get a used one for a pretty reasonable price.

A 220EX is smaller/less expensive, but of course also has a lot less power.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the HF-DC1 since it's not compatible with my 20D and ETTL II.

[denncald]

You might be interested in this small Metz slave flash.

http://www.urban75.org/photos/metz-mecablitz-28-cs2.html

http://www.amazon.com/Metz-MZ-52822D-Digital-Flash/dp/B000IVMEBO

Dennis

[Bob_A]

You might be interested in this small Metz slave flash.

http://www.urban75.org/photos/metz-mecablitz-28-cs2.html

http://www.amazon.com/Metz-MZ-52822D-Digital-Flash/dp/B000IVMEBO

Dennis


Does the Metz that you linked to work in autoflash with the G9 or just in manual?

[maxwolfie]

Excellent, I don't know if I need the slave flash unit, but I will look into the 430EX (I may go down the DSLR route later :))

Any others?

EDIT: Sheesh, looks like I'm up for about $200 or more for a 430EX!

[denncald]

Does the Metz that you linked to work in autoflash with the G9 or just in manual?

According to all I've read, it will sync in either Auto or Manual flash with your G9 using your built-in G9 flash to trigger it, since there is no physical connection to your camera. This is not triggered by a radio signal.

Dennis

[mastertech01]

As Bob_A stated, you can find a 420EX for as little as 100.00 if you keep a sharp eye out. I recently purchased an entire G5 kit, which included a 420EX and a 250D closeup lens and a few other nice accessories on Ebay for 250.00. I can easily resell the G5 and other parts and end up with the 420EX for nearly free. You have to be flexible when money is tight sometimes. :)

[Bob_A]

According to all I've read, it will sync in either Auto or Manual flash with your G9 using your built-in G9 flash to trigger it, since there is no physical connection to your camera. This is not triggered by a radio signal.

Dennis

Reading further in the link you sent this is a fully manual flash, so it is not compatible with the G9's flash metering system. It is a cut above trying to control manual flash output from the G9 though as the manual output control is right on the flash itself.

Personally I wouldn't spend money on the Metz just to save a few $ over a Canon EX flash. The EX series flashes provide auto-flash control for the G9, you can get a new 220EX for $119.95, and as Mastertech01 said, you can get a used 420EX for even less.

[denncald]

I suggested the Metz, because it was quite small, and he indicated he didn't need all the power and features of the 430EX. It also offers off-camera lighting to supplement the G9 that the Canon flashes cannot provide without expensive extra devices like the ST-E2 speedlite transmitter.

Size of the unit seemed to be a primary factor in his request.

Dennis

[GordonSBuck]

For cheap off-camera flash with the G9 (well, other cameras also), try this
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2007/11/g9-and-flash.html

[maxwolfie]

Hmm.. OK. Down to the 420 and 430 then.

Is the 430 worth the extra? What's the difference?

[Bob_A]

Hmm.. OK. Down to the 420 and 430 then.

Is the 430 worth the extra? What's the difference?


If using auto-flash with the G9 both will give exactly the same results, so if that is the only camera you are going to use it with I'd say no. The 430EX adds manual flash control along with certain improvements when coupled with a Canon DSLR.

I typically use my 420EX with my G9 and a 580EX II with my 20D. Also with my 20D I use the 580EX as a master and 420EX as slave (firing into an umbrella) to do portraits of my kids. Just to check I just tried using both in the same manner with my G9 (580EX II master/420EX slave) and it works fine ... which is pretty cool.

[GordonSBuck]

I typically use my 420EX with my G9 and a 580EX II with my 20D. Also with my 20D I use the 580EX as a master and 420EX as slave (firing into an umbrella) to do portraits of my kids. Just to check I just tried using both in the same manner with my G9 (580EX II master/420EX slave) and it works fine ... which is pretty cool.

Wow, I have the same cameras, the same flashes and do the same things!

[maxwolfie]

Hmm.. Looking back, a small external unit such as the Metz might be good too.. So I can position the flash away from the camera and experiment with light more in this sense.

I will continue to look around at options. At this stage my MAIN concern is indeed size. I only just realised how big the 430EX was!! Massive! I don't need anything too flash (sorry). Just something that will be OK for fill light whilst out mountain biking (jumps drops etc)

With the Metz, is that designed to be used in CONJUNCTION with the G9's on board flash? If it is, that's a problem, mainly because the Lensmate adapter that I have on the camera 99% of the time actually blocks about 70% of the flash output.

[mastertech01]

The Canon flashes are huge mounted on a G9. I have had 580EX II, 430EX, 420EX, and 380EX and to the best of my recollection, the 420EX had the smallest footprint and the fact that it swivels and pivots won it over for me. With the lensmate it is a very good balance. Compare my G9 with an XTI/XSI SLR with a 580EX II on top...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h148/mastertech01/IMG_2421.jpg

[maxwolfie]

Thanks for the pic, it really puts it into perspective. I think all of the Canon flashes are just going to be too big to be practical. I'll never take the damn thing out riding with me!

I will have to look at other (smaller) options I think. *looks at Metz unit*

[Bob_A]

The 220EX is pretty small, but has less range and features. Bigger is due to a larger capacitor = more range. Choose a flash based on the Guide Number you need, not on its physical size.

Also, having a flash that can swivel/bounce is a huge advantage.

As mentioned above the 580EX II dwarfs the G9. The 420EX is a good compromise between physical size and reach. If you ever want to try home portraits and you potentially want to get a DSLR then pick up a 580EX to use as a master, and away you go. There's no problem using a 580EX on a G9 if you're using a tripod.

Any way you go you're not going to carry a G9 with external flash attached in your pocket :)

Also, remember that the Metz is manual flash. In other words the cameras flash metering system is not used. You become the metering system, and will likely have to take test shots and multiple images to get things right. In my opinion manual flash control is great for certain circumstances (such as for portrait photography), but is a waste of effort for candids.

[denncald]

Thanks for the pic, it really puts it into perspective. I think all of the Canon flashes are just going to be too big to be practical. I'll never take the damn thing out riding with me!

I will have to look at other (smaller) options I think. *looks at Metz unit*

You might want to (if you haven't already) read the two customer reviews for the Metz on the Amazon link;

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000IVMEBO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Dennis

[maxwolfie]

You might want to (if you haven't already) read the two customer reviews for the Metz on the Amazon link;

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000IVMEBO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Dennis


Thanks Dennis, good read. Seems as though it would be quite suitable for me!

Questions:

1. Is this a slave only flash? I'm not sure how all this extra flash stuff works. The issue is that when I have my Lensmate adaptor on, most of the flash is blocked out by the adapter itself. Does this mean that the inbuilt flash might have problems triggering

2. One of the reviewers mentioned that Canon have released their own P&S flash... which would this be? 220EX?

At the moment, the small size, small price and the fact that I can use it off camera are great bonuses!

Thanks for posting :)

[denncald]

Hey maxwolfie,

Yes, it is slave only, fired by your camera's flash. You can apparently reduce your built-in flash so it provides minimum light for your subject, but still fire the slave unit. The Metz unit is more sophisticated than the Canon unit (HF-DC1), thus the higher cost ($150 vs $90). You can attach these slaves to the camera using the tripod socket, or hold them in your hand for different lighting positions, or place them at a distance for side lighting or back lighting, etc...

Your adapter tube does block a lot of the light from your built-in flash, but these slaves can overcome that. You could also remove the adapter tube, since it is a bayonet style, so it does not block your built-in flash too.

Here's a couple of links with info on the Canon flash. Be sure to read the many user comments here too. This unit costs less, and may also be fine for your needs. The Metz has more features available, so is more attractive to me, but I haven't purchased one yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HF-DC1-Powershot-Digital-Cameras/dp/B0007MGFI2/ref=acc_glance_foto_ai_114_1_tit

http://products.howstuffworks.com/canon-hf-dc1-digital-slave-flash-review.htm (Canon unit)

http://products.howstuffworks.com/metz-28-cs-2-digital-slave-flash-review.htm (Metz unit)

Dennis

PS I forgot to mention another difference between these two slave units. The Metz uses AAA batteries, so you can buy NiMH rechargeables. The Canon uses a non-rechargeable battery, so you must throw them away when they run out of juice.

[Bob_A]

To summarize the differences:

The Metz and 200EX are almost identical in size, with the Canon 220EX being 19 grams heavier (i.e., no real difference).

- Both can use NiMH batteries (Metz: AAA; 220EX: AA)
- The Metz is manual only where the Canon can be used in manual (from camera) or fully auto
- The Canon 220EX costs $25 less than the Metz
- The Metz can be used off camera as a key light
- Both of these flashes are very low capacity, but the Metz is more powerful. Both are more powerful than the Canon HC-DC1.

If you are only going to use the flash mounted on the camera and don't want to take three shots every time to get the exposure right get the Canon 220EX.

If you like manual control of the flash, don't mind taking multiple shots to get the exposure right or need an inexpensive slave flash get the Metz.

Both are very inexpensive (but decent) flashes and will get the job done. A 420EX/430EX is significantly more powerful than either of these flashes, but you pay for the power and faster recycle time by the flash being much larger.

[denncald]

Bob_A has good points to consider. I didn't realize how close the Metz slave and the Canon 220EX where in size. The 220EX will do a much better job at fill flash, your goal, than the Metz slave. Here's one article I found related to the 220EX and fill flash.

http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/frary/canon220ex.htm

Edit: Here's another 220EX article;

http://www.powershotvalley.com/html/speedlite_220ex.html

Dennis

[mastertech01]

220EX would be perfect sized if they would just have made the head tilt for bounce like some of the aftermarket ones I have seen. There used to be an aftermarket one that looked just like the 220EX and was ETTL capable, with a bounce tilting lens. For some reason it disappeared from the market.

[maxwolfie]

Hm.. I'd rather use AA's instead of AAA's (as there are PLENTY around the house for other electrical appliances), and I'd rather have the option of Auto or Manual control instead of just manual (for those situations where time is of the essence). It would be a good thing to have a flash that I can use off-camera.. but in the end I'm not sure if I would use the feature that often to warrant buying the Metz. Again, size is the primary concern however it seems as though they are both in the same league in this regard.

Dennis, I'm a bit worried about the adapter tube. I like using my polarizer (for the sky) and UV filter (to protect from dust, rocks etc). Because of this I don't want to take it off. However, I am worried that having it on will not fire the slave flash..

Hrrrrrrrrm...

[denncald]

maxwolfie,

I'm 99% certain your adapter tube will not prevent the slave unit from responding. However, I do think the 220EX will be the best for your needs about 100% of the time.

There is also an option to use the 220EX off of the hot shoe. I believe this is the correct device for that. It's not the same as using a slave, and the distance off camera is relatively short, but it does offer different lighting angles.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html

Dennis

[GordonSBuck]

I've also been trying to learn G9 flash and flash techniques. Most of my "tests" and learning experiences are posted on my blog at these links

http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2007/11/g9-and-flash.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/05/g9-with-cactus-wireless-flash-triggers.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/05/g9-with-cactus-wireless-flash-triggers.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/05/g9-with-cactus-wireless-flash-triggers.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/01/g9-flash-sync-speed.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/01/g9-flash-list.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2007/12/g9-display-in-flash-mode.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2007/12/g9-and-canon-multiple-flash.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2007/12/g9-with-canon-external-flash.html
http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2008/04/g9-on-assignment.html

[Bob_A]

maxwolfie,


There is also an option to use the 220EX off of the hot shoe. I believe this is the correct device for that. It's not the same as using a slave, and the distance off camera is relatively short, but it does offer different lighting angles.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html

Dennis

Correct. Just to be certain I just tested my G9 with 420EX connected via the OC-E3 and it works perfectly.

[denncald]

Correct. Just to be certain I just tested my G9 with 420EX connected via the OC-E3 and it works perfectly.

Bob,

Thanks, while your at it, does the OC-E3 provide a method to use the 220EX as a bounce flash? That appears to be one of it's weaknesses people comment about.

thanks,
Dennis

[Bob_A]

Bob,

Thanks, while your at it, does the OC-E3 provide a method to use the 220EX as a bounce flash? That appears to be one of it's weaknesses people comment about.

thanks,
Dennis

The G9 still uses preflash metering, so tilting the 220EX when using the off-shoe cord to bounce the flash will work fine. The only problem is that the 220EX and small Metz flash are a bit underpowered for bouncing. However, they'll probably work fine for bouncing off of a ceiling in a small room.

The nice thing about using the 420EX (I know, I know ... it's too big for maxwolfie :) ) is that it has plenty of power for most people and the flash head both bounces and swivels.

[maxwolfie]

Cheers guys

The 220EX looks to be the best at the moment. I'm not really looking for something that I can bounce, as I NEVER take photos indoors - Always outdoors in sunlight. (Whether it be macros in the garden, or out mountain biking)

Therefore the flash really only need to serve as fill in sunny conditions, at up to 5m range to subject. (when mountain biking, flash probably won't be used for much else)

Can the 220EX handle this task well?

[BobsYourUncle]

Well, . . . . . speaking for myself, I found the onboard flash to do a pretty good job at outdoor fill, as long as the subject is within about 12 feet. However, indoors is a different story. It is hopelessly inadequate there. Most of my fill shots outdoors are in decent or bright light. The camera meters the background light well while the flash takes care of the shadows for closeup pics.

I first bought a used 380EX and the difference is night and day. Just a couple days ago I bought a 430EX and the shots are better yet. I am talking indoor shots here

Back to your original statements that you only want it for outside fill and you don't do indoor shots, I don't think there is any need to go really fancy with a flash, especially if you are riding or hiking or something and want to keep it simple for shots on the fly. I recently did a Mexico trip, before I bought the 380 and I used the onboard for fill and was actually impressed with the results. It shot enough light to fill the shadows and leave a clear image.

If you are riding and want to do some quick pictures, consider the time to mount the flash and get ready as opposed to pulling it out and shooting.

Just my opinion based on my own experience. . . .

[maxwolfie]

I'd stick with the onboard flash, however the Lensmate adaptor actually blocks about 1/3 of the flash light, plus it ain't all the powerful.

I've been recommended to look at the Pt-04 wireless triggers (< click) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Wireless-Hot-Shoe-Flash-Trigger-PT-04-2-Receiver-New_W0QQitemZ160264620306QQihZ006QQcategoryZ30088Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (they are cheap on ebay) so that I can run the flash off-camera (which would be cool to fiddle with)

[maxwolfie]

I bit the bullet and bought the 430EX II (the first version is no longer available, apparently), though i haven't received it yet. I was getting the impression that I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less. I'll just have to find a way to cram it into my bag now :)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0806/08061001canon430iiex.asp