best monitor

[THE TROOPER]

Hi, i plan on getting a 2nd PC at home. My question is simply what should i look out for in a monitor and what recomendations would you give as a good monitor.

My use will be for Post processing first and for the wife to do the accounts.

Thank you

Ian

[René Damkot]

What's the first PC?

[Irreverent]

Well, you can proably use any old rubbish for the PP, but for the accounts I'd make sure I get a decent S-IPS screen, ideally with an LED backlight (if they do those on S-IPS displays these days) ;)


MVA screens will probably provide more instant "wow" because of how outrageously bright and contrasty they are, but their colour accuracy leaves a lot to be desired when compared to a S-IPS panel.

Don't touch the TN screens with a 10 foot pole if you can possibly help it.

All manufacutrers probably offer a range including all different panel types, so look around. I'd say a 20" widescreen would be considered bare minimum for this kind of work these days. Ideally a 22-24" if you can afford it (and if you're minted why not just go for 2 x 30" displays - you know how much space those darned spreadsheets can eat up :) )

[shadowcat]

I use a samsung 46" lcd tv for my pc but thats me lol.

[Az2Africa]

What is your budget for a monitor?

[THE TROOPER]

Thank you guys for your replys.

I don't know what S-IPS is or MVA sorry.

I have a budget of about £300

I have not bought the PC yet and didn't realise there were such a great choice in monitors.

:)

Ian

[bacchanal]

HP LP2065 - 20" LCD at 1600x1200 resolution.

Part# EF227A4#ABA = S-IPS Panel
Part# EF227A8#ABA = AMVA Panel

The S-IPS version is preferable for photo editing, but is generally more expensive (unless you get lucky).

And it should be within or close to your budget. ;)

[Jryan]

Don't know if this is considered a good one for photography but Samsung syncmaster 906bw is about 200$ USD 2ms refresh and 2000:1 contrast.

[René Damkot]

From here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php): "Samsung 906BW (widescreen) has a 19 inch 2 ms (g2g) TN panel".

Forget about numbers for response time and contrast ratio. They are almost meaningless for a screen that's used for photo-editing. Only important for gamers.

[Jryan]

From here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php): "Samsung 906BW (widescreen) has a 19 inch 2 ms (g2g) TN panel".

Forget about numbers for response time and contrast ratio. They are almost meaningless for a screen that's used for photo-editing. Only important for gamers.

Ok.

[Irreverent]

IPS, MVA and TN refer to the type of panel used in the display.

The cheapest (and generally worst) displays use TN screens. The best (and usually most expensive) use some form of IPS.

I'm using an HP L2335 23" widescreen dislpay, which uses the same IPS panel as the Apple Cinema Displays (or at least it did at time of manufacture. I haven't checked if Apple still uses these panels).

Ironically, the new 24" version of my display uses an MVA panel, which is MUCH brighter, but not as colour accurate.

You might find it interesting to note that I picked an L2335 up off ebay for a friend last year for £320 - new with full 3 year on site warranty.

For reference, you can usually spot a non-IPS panel by its contrast ratio. IPS panels tend to have contrast ratios in the 400-800:1 region. Non-IPS panels always boast of much higher ratios.

The HP LP2065 looks like it might sit well in your budget, and would be a good choice for you as long as you didn't mind working on a non widescreen format.

[dave92270]

HP LP2065 (S-IPS); that's what I got some year and half ago, and couldn't be happier, excellent screen...

[Mike R]

I use an HP w2207h 22" monitor that can rotate to portrait mode, great for working on portrait files without (or very little) scrolling. I'm sorry but I don't have a clue whether its an S-IPS, TN or something else but I use a Spyper2 express for calibration and the prints I get form my lab are accurate

[Plant McCloud]

Well, you can proably use any old rubbish for the PP, but for the accounts I'd make sure I get a decent S-IPS screen, ideally with an LED backlight (if they do those on S-IPS displays these days) ;)


MVA screens will probably provide more instant "wow" because of how outrageously bright and contrasty they are, but their colour accuracy leaves a lot to be desired when compared to a S-IPS panel.

Don't touch the TN screens with a 10 foot pole if you can possibly help it.

All manufacutrers probably offer a range including all different panel types, so look around. I'd say a 20" widescreen would be considered bare minimum for this kind of work these days. Ideally a 22-24" if you can afford it (and if you're minted why not just go for 2 x 30" displays - you know how much space those darned spreadsheets can eat up :) )

Could you recommend a good 24" s-ips panel that is decently priced? Thanks.

[René Damkot]

From here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php):
HP w2207h (widescreen) has a 22 inch 5 ms TN panel.

[Andy_Cam]

I just bought a new 24" Samsung TN panel and cannot really see a difference in the colours.

It is only really worth spending the extra on the screen to get a S-IPS screen etc if you are really going to calabrate the monitor for post processing (IMHO!).

By not being too fussy about the panel, I get a much higher resolution screen than I could of afforded which makes working with the photos much more enjoyable! (Especially with the old 19" as the dual screen!).

For my purposes, the colours are good enough for me to work with and I am happy with what I see on the screen and what comes out when printed by comparison.

[bacchanal]

Could you recommend a good 24" s-ips panel that is decently priced? Thanks.

Not sure what decently priced means, but I don't know of any cheap ones.

The NEC Mulitisync series seems to offer some pretty solid values:
NEC LCD2490WUXi
NEC LCD2690WUXi

Not an IPS panel, but the Samsung 245T is a PVA panel and is pretty reasonable for a 24" panel.

Also see: The LCD Thread at Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206)

[Az2Africa]

In order of display quality vs.Cost, I would look at :
Apple or NEC $$
LaCie $$$
Eizo $$$$

[Irreverent]

I just bought a new 24" Samsung TN panel and cannot really see a difference in the colours.

Yes, but you can't see a difference in the colours when compared to what? What were you using in the past? TN panels generally are only capable of producing 6 bits per channel of Red, Green, and Blue. Doesn't sound like a huge difference, does it? Well, 6 bits equates to 64 different discreet levels per channel. When multiplied together this gives you a colour range of about 260,000 colours. So the average TN screen is capable of displaying just over a quarter of a million colours. They may try some fancy processing tricks to give the appearance of an increased colour range, but the truth is that you are generally limited to these colours.

Now, an 8 bit display gives us 256 discreet levels per channel. Multiply those together and you get something like 16.5 MILLION colours available to you - some quick math would suggest that's about 60x MORE colours available to you on an 8 bit display than a 6 bit display. Pretty shocking, huh? Where will you see all these extra colours? In much smoother gradations of tone across flat areas such as sky, better shadow and highlight detail and more natural colours in general. I have the same image open on my S-IPS display as I do on the TN display in my laptop right now and I can see noticieable banding on the TN screen where it can't reproduce the subtle gradations in tone due to its massively reduced colour set.

In short, the reason you can't see the difference in colours is probably because your older display wasn't up to the job either ;)


t is only really worth spending the extra on the screen to get a S-IPS screen etc if you are really going to calabrate the monitor for post processing (IMHO!).

Well, this is a forum dedicated to post-processing, so I think that's a reasonable assumption to make.

By not being too fussy about the panel, I get a much higher resolution screen than I could of afforded which makes working with the photos much more enjoyable! (Especially with the old 19" as the dual screen!).

While more resolution might be more enjoyable, and I can't argue that it isn't, you're effectively flying hlaf blind during editing because your dislpay isn't telling you the truth about what's going on in the image colour-wise. Would you edit images whilst wearing a pair of tinted sunglasses?

For my purposes, the colours are good enough for me to work with and I am happy with what I see on the screen and what comes out when printed by comparison.

Well, if you're happy with what you've got, that's fine. But please bear in mind the OP was looking for the best monitor, and, I'm sorry to say, no matter how you cut it, the TN technology is not up to the job of delivering results which could be classed as anything close to "best" by the standards we judge upon when performing colour critical work.

[Plant McCloud]

Here's the problem. I've read reports that say manufacturers are substituting panels on the assembly line - that the panel you think you are getting you may not get. Is there a website that keeps up with that stuff? Flatpanels.dk doesn't - they source their database from manufacturer's specs.

[Mike R]

From here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php):

Thanks for the link. Now that I know it's a TN, I don't understand whay people have a problem with the TN technology.

[Irreverent]

You mean apart from the fact that it can only display 262,000 colours?

TN screens are also notrious for suffering from shallow viewing angles and relatively low colour purity when compared to IPS screens.

Have you ever created a series of diferent coloured gradients, viewed them full screen and checked for banding? What about when you shift your head around from side to side? If you don't notice significant problems with viewing angles, then you're not using a TN panel.

Also try filling the screen with flat colours - varying shades of grey are good. Does the colour stay uniform all the way across the screen? TN displays are notorious for not being able to perform in this area.

But I have to keep coming back to the main reason why TNs are bad for colour critical PP work - 262,000 colour limit.

[Irreverent]

Another thing to consider is that the TN screen may well actually not LOOK bad. Images might appear to be well saturated, with good extension into black, and nice and bright.

The problem surfaces when your images get viewed on other displays. If your screen for example throws colours into black to quickly, or is overly bright, or even worse, a combination of both, what you are going to end up with is underxposed images that don't go all the way to black - in other words, overly dark, flat, and lacking contrast. I can almost always spot someone who works on a TN screen if their images consistently display these shortcomings. If you post images for C&C in these forums, and your feedback consistently suggests your images are too dark, then your screen is probably too bright. If you get consitent feedback about lack of contrast or images not going down to black, then your screen is probably too contrasty and is throwing colours into black way too soon.

Just something to keep in mind.

[Mike R]

Irreverent Thanks for the detailed info.

[Irreverent]

You're welcome :)
Please forgive my countless typos - I'm typing on a little bluetooth keyboard and it keeps dropping keystrokes. I would go back and edit, but frankly I'm feeling too lazy :D

[Irreverent]

Here's the problem. I've read reports that say manufacturers are substituting panels on the assembly line - that the panel you think you are getting you may not get. Is there a website that keeps up with that stuff? Flatpanels.dk doesn't - they source their database from manufacturer's specs.

I can imagine this going on to the extent of some panels from a certain manufacturer being used in some displays, and some panels from another manufacturer in others, but to be honest I'd be incredibly surprised to hear of IPS panels being replaced with TN panels. Firstly, the two require different powered backlights to operate, with the IPS displays generally requiring a much stronger backlight (which I assume is one of the reasons we don't really see IPS displays in laptops - the power consumption of the backlight would probably be a real battery killer. However, now that we're progressing more toward LED backlights, we may start to see some advances in this area).

The main reason however is that it's just be obvious. TN and MVA displays have much higher contrast ratios than IPS screens, and are generally much much brighter (apparently the MVA displays in the new iMacs are almost blinding when turned up to full brightness)

Lastly, putting a TN panel in a display that is advertised as an IPS screen would be dangerously close to fraud or false advertising. There's a price premium one pays for an IPS screen, partially I believe because the rejction ratio off the production line is so incredibly high, so the losses incurred during production are passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price on the street. To then replace this panel with one that is much more economical to produce and to carry on charging the premium would be an incredibly stupid and risky move on the part of the manufacturers imo.

[FloridaCamera]

I bought the Samsung T220. It is a 22" SyncMaster, IMHO this was the best bang for the buck in sub $500 value. It has a 20,000:1 contrast ratio, and 2ms refresh rate. Try and beat that for the money. Beautiful black to deep red housing and hidden feather touch power control on the front. The rest of the controls are hidden and with the software you install are not needed anyway. I am thrilled at the image! Picked it up for about $300 shipped after rebate which is good till end of the month. Got mine from Tiger Direct and took 3 days to arrive (Central Florida) anyway I am hard core looking at a second one to replace the 17" I am using as my second monitor, I will sell something to make it happen!

[Irreverent]

If money were no object I'd take 2 of these, thank you very much


HP Dreamcolor (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648397.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN)

[Andy_Cam]

Yes, but you can't see a difference in the colours when compared to what? What were you using in the past? TN panels generally are only capable of producing 6 bits per channel of Red, Green, and Blue. Doesn't sound like a huge difference, does it? Well, 6 bits equates to 64 different discreet levels per channel. When multiplied together this gives you a colour range of about 260,000 colours. So the average TN screen is capable of displaying just over a quarter of a million colours. They may try some fancy processing tricks to give the appearance of an increased colour range, but the truth is that you are generally limited to these colours.

Now, an 8 bit display gives us 256 discreet levels per channel. Multiply those together and you get something like 16.5 MILLION colours available to you - some quick math would suggest that's about 60x MORE colours available to you on an 8 bit display than a 6 bit display. Pretty shocking, huh? Where will you see all these extra colours? In much smoother gradations of tone across flat areas such as sky, better shadow and highlight detail and more natural colours in general. I have the same image open on my S-IPS display as I do on the TN display in my laptop right now and I can see noticieable banding on the TN screen where it can't reproduce the subtle gradations in tone due to its massively reduced colour set.

In short, the reason you can't see the difference in colours is probably because your older display wasn't up to the job either ;)




Well, this is a forum dedicated to post-processing, so I think that's a reasonable assumption to make.



While more resolution might be more enjoyable, and I can't argue that it isn't, you're effectively flying hlaf blind during editing because your dislpay isn't telling you the truth about what's going on in the image colour-wise. Would you edit images whilst wearing a pair of tinted sunglasses?



Well, if you're happy with what you've got, that's fine. But please bear in mind the OP was looking for the best monitor, and, I'm sorry to say, no matter how you cut it, the TN technology is not up to the job of delivering results which could be classed as anything close to "best" by the standards we judge upon when performing colour critical work.

They are all very valid points. I know about and appreciate the differences in the various panels.... but for people who cannot spend the extra cash on the best of the best, a TN panel can be a valid option.

[monions]

I have been trying to choose a monitor to go with a Dell laptop, however I have to admit to getting pretty fustrated. The general theme in the forum is to go for a IPS monitor, that is OK, but trying to find one is incredibly difficult.

The Flatpanels.dk is very useful but does not show the latest/current models which can be found in PC stores. For instance the Dell 2007WFP looks great, but you cannot buy it, the new one 2008WFP does not have any information so I am guessing it is TN.

If you go to the HP site and look at monitors, the specification say TFT LCD - wow great really useful.

I would like a 20" (figured to stay well clear of 22") and from this thread the HP LP2065 looks to be good, but is 4.3 any other recomendations? Preferably like to stay below £300.

[Irreverent]

Monions, I understand your frustration. If you want to stay under £300 you will *probably* have a pretty hard time finding an IPS screen because they generally carry a price premium, but myself and 4 other people I know have all gotten lucky on ebay and picked up HP L2335's for pretty much bang on that price. The sad thing is that I believe they've discontinued this model now, and the replacement 24" version would appear to use an S-PVA panel, which would seem to be becoming more and more frequent as S-IPS displays become rarer and rarer. Depending on who you speak to, the anecdotal evidence would suggest that some people are happy with the S-PVA panels, whilst others are complaining about poor viewing angles, too much brightness, and issues with black crush.

I think you'll be pretty hard pushed to find a new, reasonably priced S-IPS display at this point in time, but one thing to look out for is the contrast ratio. Anything over about 800:1 is almost definitely not a S-IPS screen. My display for example claims a CR of 500:1, which would appear to be about standard for S-IPS.

The second post in this thread makes for great reading

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=27439239

You may also find this helpful

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

[Irreverent]

They are all very valid points. I know about and appreciate the differences in the various panels.... but for people who cannot spend the extra cash on the best of the best, a TN panel can be a valid option.

Of course, financial concerns are an issue for many, myself included. I just feel obliged to point out in a thread looking for the best monitor that out of all the panel technologies out there, the TN displays probably have the greatest number of shortcomings when we approach the subject from a colour and blackpoint critical standpoint.

[Poaceae]

Irreverent, a number of the HP business monitors (including the 20" LP 2065) list the display as Active matrix TFT. Does that put it in the TN or IPS category?

[Irreverent]

It doesn't actually give you a clue either way I'm afraid, but the 800:1 contrast ratio will tell you for sure it's not going to be a TN display. It may still be an MVA or PVA panel however.

Upon further inspection. apparently the 2065 is one of those displays that makes you play the lottery. From what I can gather, if the revision number on the box starts with GSM, then it's a S-IPS display, if not then it's an MVA panel.

It would seem there are still a few S-IPS models out there for this screen. I guess you could find a co-operative supplier that will either agree to ship you a GSM version, or at least make an arrangement to accept a return on one that turns out to have an MVA panel in it.

In the UK our consumer laws dictate that if you state your requirements of the equipment at the time of purchase, and it turns out that those requirements cannot be met, then you are legally entitled to a replacement or refund. If a similar law exists in the US, you might wish to say whilst purchasing that you require a display for colour critical prepress work, that will display a full 8 bits per channel and give me a profesional level of colour accuracy. Then if it turns out to be a non S-IPS screen, you can argue that the panel is unfit for purpose and request a replacement.



If you check here (http://www.amazon.com/Promo-L2065-Monitor-Silver-Analog/dp/B000EORI1G), it's pretty obvious the first reviewer got an IPS screen, while the 3rd reviewer ended up with an MVA panel.

[Poaceae]

Thanks for the info and the link to the Amazon review - really interesting about the GSM

[Irreverent]

You're welcome :)

Edit as an afterthought: It really is a shame that choosing a display is this much of a minefield, and it's about the only purchasing decision I can think of where manufacturers do not provide you with the full details, or where some details may be subject to change outside of your control. For those people to whom this stuff is important, it adds a very unwelcome layer of complexity to the buying process.

[monions]

Irreverent - thank you for the help. I have just found a few places offering the Dell 2007WFP for ~£230 which would fit nicely and it is an S-IPS screen so I am going to go for one of these.

[Irreverent]

You're welcome Monions. Just please be aware that the 2007WFP uses 2 different panel types - S-IPS and S-PVA. Which one you receive will be a lottery. I would advise you to state at time of purchase you require a S-IPS screen for colour critical photographic work, this way if you end up getting an S-PVA panel you ought to be protected by consumer laws (namely the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 I think) and you should have solid grounds upon which to request a replacement.

[bacchanal]

Thanks for the info and the link to the Amazon review - really interesting about the GSM

As I stated earlier in this thread, as far as I can tell for the LP2065:

Part# EF227A4#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/LP2065-TC03-Monitor-USenglish-Localization/dp/B000EHNMJA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216496874&sr=8-4)= S-IPS Panel
Part# EF227A8#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/Promo-L2065-Monitor-Silver-Analog/dp/B000EORI1G) = AMVA Panel

I ordered pn EF227A4#ABA and did get the GSM box#. Fwiw, there was a $50 rebate on this monitor for awhile, the rebate only applied to EF227A8#ABA, which is the non S-IPS panel. The IPS version (EF227A4#ABA) typically sells for around $500, while the AMVA version can be had for $350 or less.
The lottery part of it is that some people who have ordered the AMVA version, get lucky and get the IPS panel. Though, from what I have read, this is happening less frequently in the last few months.

Also, AMVA and PVA panels are not a bad option for photo editing. The are generally 8 bit or higher panels and have better AOV than TN panels. Eizo actually uses 10 bit S-PVA panels in some of their monitors.

Another option is the NEC 2070NX (http://www.amazon.com/20IN-LCD-1600X1200-800-Adjustable/dp/B000V7RGJK/ref=pd_sbs_e_3), which is a little older, but it should be a gauranteed IPS panel (NEC doesn't switch panels as far as I know).

[Irreverent]

That's good info bacchanal, thanks for adding it to the discussion.

[Morriss]

As I stated earlier in this thread, as far as I can tell for the LP2065:

Part# EF227A4#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/LP2065-TC03-Monitor-USenglish-Localization/dp/B000EHNMJA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216496874&sr=8-4)= S-IPS Panel
Part# EF227A8#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/Promo-L2065-Monitor-Silver-Analog/dp/B000EORI1G) = AMVA Panel

I ordered pn EF227A4#ABA and did get the GSM box#. Fwiw, there was a $50 rebate on this monitor for awhile, the rebate only applied to EF227A8#ABA, which is the non S-IPS panel. The IPS version (EF227A4#ABA) typically sells for around $500, while the AMVA version can be had for $350 or less.

I'm also considering getting this monitor. bacchanal, did you
order from Amazon, and if so, how recently? Just want to make sure that their current stock of EF227A4#ABA models are all S-IPS panels.

I'm also looking at some of the NEC 2O" LCD models as well, since the prices for the HP and NEC LCD's are pretty close.

[fiveFPS]

exactly it's more of a budget issue.. if it's limitless you can always get the best =)

[Poaceae]

This thread has provided a wealth of information. Was wondering why no one mentioned Apple cinema? How do those monitors stack up to the NEC and HP units with the S-IPS panel?

[Irreverent]

The Apple cinema displays are S-IPS (or at least they used to be - I haven't checked recently but I'd imagine the pro brigade would be up in arms if they downgraded to another panel technology).

From what I can gather, they use the same panel as my HP L2335 display.

Edit: It's very possible the Apple displays have moved onto H-IPS panels by now. I'll have to look into it.

[Poaceae]

So you don't think that I would gain anything in going thru the hastle of going with a 20" Apple? After having read thru the threads and links and not wanting to spend the $2200 for your favorite HP Dream Color, I seem to be narrowing it down to $400 for Dell 2007FP or WFP, HP LP 2065, or NEC 2070NX and spending another $200 on a Eye 1 Display 2. My PC is a Gateway using Windows XP with a plug and play monitor using a NVIDIA GeForce 6150LE video card. Any thoughts or further advice is greatly appreciated.

[bacchanal]

I'm also considering getting this monitor. bacchanal, did you
order from Amazon, and if so, how recently? Just want to make sure that their current stock of EF227A4#ABA models are all S-IPS panels.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Yeah, I ordered from Amazon about a month ago and got the S-IPS with the EF227A4#ABA part number.

[bacchanal]

So you don't think that I would gain anything in going thru the hastle of going with a 20" Apple? After having read thru the threads and links and not wanting to spend the $2200 for your favorite HP Dream Color, I seem to be narrowing it down to $400 for Dell 2007FP or WFP, HP LP 2065, or NEC 2070NX and spending another $200 on a Eye 1 Display 2. My PC is a Gateway using Windows XP with a plug and play monitor using a NVIDIA GeForce 6150LE video card. Any thoughts or further advice is greatly appreciated.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices for the money. The NEC is a little older, but it is a sure thing as far as getting an S-IPS. I'm using the Eye1D2 as well (with my LP2065) and am really happy with the results. It is crazy how bright my monitor was out of the box...much, much better after calibrating.

[Poaceae]

Appreciate the imput. Is my video card o.k. for these monitors? Or do you only worry about that if you're into computer games?

[Irreverent]

Hi Poaceae, I won't answer your original question to me because bacchanal has already covered that ground, but as long as your video card has a DVI output on it, you'll be fine. You CAN connect to most if not all of these display via VGA, but DVI is eminently preferable. Any card manufactured in the last 5 years or so should be fine.

[Poaceae]

Many thanks to you guys for answering my questions. Now that I know the direction I just need to juggle some things to pay for the trip.

[Morriss]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Yeah, I ordered from Amazon about a month ago and got the S-IPS with the EF227A4#ABA part number.

Thanks for replying, bacchanal. I went ahead and ordered from Amazon (EF227A4#ABA) and just received it yesterday. It has the GSM# on the sticker so I'm assuming it's an S-IPS panel. I have an Eye One Display also on order, so I haven't set this thing up yet. Has anyone got a box with the GSM# on it and the panel turns out to be an MVA one? My main concern now is getting this calibrated and looking for dead pixels.

[monions]

Just received the Dell 2007WFP....wow

I am so pleased, even out of the box the colours are nice, the viewing angle wide, I am so pleased. The one I have is the S-IPS, the retailer guaranteed that it was S-IPS.

I will also calibrate it over the next week or so.

Final cost was £240 including shipping which looks like a good deal on this monitor in the UK.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

[Irreverent]

Glad to see you got something you're happy with Monions.

I know the research and hunting around can be a real drag, but when it's for something that you're going to be spending huge amounts of time with over the next few years, I personally feel that effort is well justified.

Enjoy your new display :)

[futura]

Just received the Dell 2007WFP....wow

I am so pleased, even out of the box the colours are nice, the viewing angle wide, I am so pleased. The one I have is the S-IPS, the retailer guaranteed that it was S-IPS.

I will also calibrate it over the next week or so.

Final cost was £240 including shipping which looks like a good deal on this monitor in the UK.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

Hi Monions, where abouts did you get your monitor from, I'm on the market as well.

[monions]

Hi Monions, where abouts did you get your monitor from, I'm on the market as well.

Futura - here you go.
http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/cheapdellultrasharpmonitors.html
Nice fast service and they seem to know what they are talking about. The monitor is from the Dell outlet but comes with warrantee to April, 2011.

Hope this helps.

[futura]

Futura - here you go.
http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/cheapdellultrasharpmonitors.html
Nice fast service and they seem to know what they are talking about. The monitor is from the Dell outlet but comes with warrantee to April, 2011.

Hope this helps.

Fantastic! Thanks for the link. Just realised they are based just down the road from me, so hopefully they still have stock for pickup.

[Art Rodriguez]

I've been looking for a monitor too for post processing. I have an HP w1907 that I bought because my old monitor died on me and I was desparte for a new one. Anyway, I really don't like it and that's the reason I'm looking for a new one.

I've read all the reply's here and I'm confused. So from what I can tell, a good monitor for PP is one that has a contrast of 800:1? Mine is 1000:1. Is that the reason I'm having a very hard time matching the prints with the monitor? I also got a Pantone Huey because of the price and that hasn't done me a bit of good. My main problem with the prints are that they are coming out too warm and a bit darker than what I see on my monitor.

I thought I would ask this question here instead of starting another thread. Sorry if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I just want a better understand about this monitor issue.

What happened to the good old CRT's?

Art

[Siphanh]

Ok, I'm totally lost!

So, this wouldn't make a good monitor for viewing and editing photos? (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-T190-19-Widescreen-Monitor-T190/sem/rpsm/oid/213987/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

[foxx]

For the last three months I've done the research. Go and get the NEC 2490WUXi-SV and be done with it.

Don't over think the room.

[bohdank]

As I stated earlier in this thread, as far as I can tell for the LP2065:

Part# EF227A4#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/LP2065-TC03-Monitor-USenglish-Localization/dp/B000EHNMJA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216496874&sr=8-4)= S-IPS Panel
Part# EF227A8#ABA (http://www.amazon.com/Promo-L2065-Monitor-Silver-Analog/dp/B000EORI1G) = AMVA Panel

I ordered pn EF227A4#ABA and did get the GSM box#. Fwiw, there was a $50 rebate on this monitor for awhile, the rebate only applied to EF227A8#ABA, which is the non S-IPS panel. The IPS version (EF227A4#ABA) typically sells for around $500, while the AMVA version can be had for $350 or less.
The lottery part of it is that some people who have ordered the AMVA version, get lucky and get the IPS panel. Though, from what I have read, this is happening less frequently in the last few months.

Also, AMVA and PVA panels are not a bad option for photo editing. The are generally 8 bit or higher panels and have better AOV than TN panels. Eizo actually uses 10 bit S-PVA panels in some of their monitors.

Another option is the NEC 2070NX (http://www.amazon.com/20IN-LCD-1600X1200-800-Adjustable/dp/B000V7RGJK/ref=pd_sbs_e_3), which is a little older, but it should be a gauranteed IPS panel (NEC doesn't switch panels as far as I know).

That's not correct. I received an "A8" LP2065 last week... manufactured in March 2008, REV GSM002. I checked the service menu which gives you the panel model number and it is the IPS.

The only way to tell, site unseen, is to ask if the box has a sticker outside stating a rev number that starts with GSM. If so, it is IPS, if it starts with AMA, it is an M-PVA panel.

[bohdank]

I've been looking for a monitor too for post processing. I have an HP w1907 that I bought because my old monitor died on me and I was desparte for a new one. Anyway, I really don't like it and that's the reason I'm looking for a new one.

I've read all the reply's here and I'm confused. So from what I can tell, a good monitor for PP is one that has a contrast of 800:1? Mine is 1000:1. Is that the reason I'm having a very hard time matching the prints with the monitor? I also got a Pantone Huey because of the price and that hasn't done me a bit of good. My main problem with the prints are that they are coming out too warm and a bit darker than what I see on my monitor.

I thought I would ask this question here instead of starting another thread. Sorry if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I just want a better understand about this monitor issue.

What happened to the good old CRT's?

Art

Either the monitor has not been or can't be accurately profiled and/or you are using a printer without using the printer profiles, assuming the ones that came with the printer are relatively accurate.

[Irreverent]

His problem could also be colour profile related - either monitor profile or working colourspace. It's really impossible to tell with such little information, and I guess that's a part of what makes the whole display question such a minefield.

Art, I think you've misapplied a few of the things you've read around here. No one has claimed that a good monitor has a contrast ratio of 800:1. I have stated that certain ranges of contrast ratios can be used as a rough indicator to gauge what type of panel technology is likely to be used in a given screen.

If you're getting confused with all this stuff - then you're not alone, it IS confusing. The only cure is to read more until you "get it" I'm afraid.

If you have questions about your display post your make and model number and we ought to be able to get a rough idea of whether or not your colour issues might be an inherent problem with the panel. However, that still wouldn't discount other factors from causing your colour issues.

[René Damkot]

I've read all the reply's here and I'm confused. So from what I can tell, a good monitor for PP is one that has a contrast of 800:1? Mine is 1000:1. Is that the reason I'm having a very hard time matching the prints with the monitor?
I'd think not.

I also got a Pantone Huey because of the price and that hasn't done me a bit of good. My main problem with the prints are that they are coming out too warm and a bit darker than what I see on my monitor.
Display too bright perhaps?
Do you soft proof?
Color settings right, and right printer profile used (when printing at home), does the lab "auto correct? (When sending off for printing)

What happened to the good old CRT's?

They went the same way the dinosaurs did...
Shame really, but you might still be able to pick up a decent used one...

Ok, I'm totally lost!

So, this wouldn't make a good monitor for viewing and editing photos? (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-T190-19-Widescreen-Monitor-T190/sem/rpsm/oid/213987/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)
Cant find it here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php), but from the specs (response time: 2ms), I'd say it's a TN screen...

[bohdank]

The 24" Apple Cinema uses the same panel as the 24" Dell. Neither are IPS panels. Not sure if this is still the case.

[Irreverent]

Apple doesn't do a 24" Cinema Display. It's 23". It's been 23" in for the past 5 or 6 years. And it is an IPS panel (170 degree viewing angle, 16ms response time, 700:1 contrast ratio)

The Dell is a 24" and uses an S-PVA panel.

[Art Rodriguez]

bohdank, believe me, I've read up on monitor profiles and don't have a clue about it:oops:

Irreverent, my working color space is sRGB is that's what you mean. See my confusion:) That's what I read into it when I made the comment about the contrast ratio. Sorry, forgot to say what kind of monitor I have. It's an HP w1907 that I bought from BestBuy. LOL! Well I'm glad I'm not the only one confused.

Rene, yes I believe my monitor is too bright but I'm having a hard time adjusting it. It's hard to explain. I don't know how to soft proof much less know what it is:oops: I believe the color settings is right as I explained about I use sRGB. I stopped using my printer at home a long time ago. I get my prints from Sams Club. The main reason I use Sams is because they are less than a mile from my house. I don't use auto correct because I have had some very bad experience with it. Yea, it's a shame about the CRT's. I had a really good one and no problems at all with it until it took a crap. I'm keeping an eye out for a good one and when I do find one I'm snatching it up:)

Thanks guys for your responses.

Art

[René Damkot]

I don't know how to soft proof much less know what it is:oops:

It's done in Photoshop.

A few links explaining it in the link from my sig ;)

[Siphanh]

Cant find it here (http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php), but from the specs (response time: 2ms), I'd say it's a TN screen...

Thanks for the respond. I suppose I'll wait a few weeks and grab a new 20" iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 20" imac displays are S-IPS?

[René Damkot]

The 17" is TN, according to flatpanels.dk The others aren't mentioned.

According to this link (http://randominactivity.com/2007/10/03/why-the-hue-and-cry-over-imac-screens/) and this one (http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac-and-mac-mini/368203/new-imacs-screen-quality/), there are 20" models with a TN screen. No idea about the new ones.

[bohdank]

Thanks for the respond. I suppose I'll wait a few weeks and grab a new 20" iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 20" imac displays are S-IPS?

Yes, it's an IPS.

[bacchanal]

That's not correct. I received an "A8" LP2065 last week... manufactured in March 2008, REV GSM002. I checked the service menu which gives you the panel model number and it is the IPS.

The only way to tell, site unseen, is to ask if the box has a sticker outside stating a rev number that starts with GSM. If so, it is IPS, if it starts with AMA, it is an M-PVA panel.

Yeah, from what I can tell, this is where the lottery part comes into play. People who order the A8 version do get lucky and get the S-IPS. So far, I haven't seen any reports of the opposite happening.

[René Damkot]

Yes, it's an IPS.

Did a bit of Google-ing, and it appears it isn't:

From everymac (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/faq_cd/imac-core-2-duo-aluminum-glossy-screen-pros-cons.html):

The display used by the 20-inch "Aluminum" Core 2 Duo models is lower quality than the one used by its predecessor -- as the reduced viewable angle attests -- and some customers were disappointed enough regarding the quality of the 20-inch displays to file suit against Apple over the issue.

[Plant McCloud]

You know, this is really getting to be a drag. There's postings all over the net about multiple companies, not just Apple, substituting lower quality panels in the manufacturing process without proper consumer notification or correction of specs.

I'm still looking for a recommendation on a good 24" S-IPS monitor. However, my priorities have changed. Initially my priority was getting the best panel. Now my priority is just getting an S-IPS panel when the specs say that's what I'm getting.

[bacchanal]

You know, this is really getting to be a drag. There's postings all over the net about multiple companies, not just Apple, substituting lower quality panels in the manufacturing process without proper consumer notification or correction of specs.

I'm still looking for a recommendation on a good 24" S-IPS monitor. However, my priorities have changed. Initially my priority was getting the best panel. Now my priority is just getting an S-IPS panel when the specs say that's what I'm getting.

NEC LCD2490WUxi

If you want the best, go Eizo (http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/cg241w/index.asp).

...and yes, it is a drag. It shouldn't be so difficult to be certain of what you're buying.

[Irreverent]

Yes, it's an IPS.

The 24" is an H-IPS. The 20' is almost certainly an MVA or TN.

[Irreverent]

Plant McCloud - what's your budget? Or what are you willing to spend?

[jdlloyd67]

Thansk everyone for the great information here on this thread. I had been reading review after review on 24" monitors and had figured that the Dell 2408WFP was a good buy. From what I understand it is a S-PVA monitor which I know have learned, thanks to this thread, is not what you really want in a monitor for editing digital images. Unfortunately my budget isn't $1,000+ for a new monitor so I am stuck, I believe, with an S-PVA panel. Is that correct?

I do have one other question. The majority of people that view my images online are using TN panels. Will a photo edited on an S-PVA, or S-IPS for that matter, look acceptable on a TN panel or will their be color distortion (mis-match) issues?

[bacchanal]

Thansk everyone for the great information here on this thread. I had been reading review after review on 24" monitors and had figured that the Dell 2408WFP was a good buy. From what I understand it is a S-PVA monitor which I know have learned, thanks to this thread, is not what you really want in a monitor for editing digital images. Unfortunately my budget isn't $1,000+ for a new monitor so I am stuck, I believe, with an S-PVA panel. Is that correct?

I do have one other question. The majority of people that view my images online are using TN panels. Will a photo edited on an S-PVA, or S-IPS for that matter, look acceptable on a TN panel or will their be color distortion (mis-match) issues?

S-PVAs are not bad for photo editing. As far as I know most or all S-PVAs are at least 8 bit panels. The main thing is that you don't want to end up with a 6-bit TN panel with horrible viewing angles.
Obviously the best panels (IPS or PVA) are the 10 and 12 bit panels, and those aren't cheap.

As far as others viewing your images, you can only do your best to get the colors correct on your system (which ideally would be calibrated), and convert to sRGB for the web. If the web user's monitor is way off, your photo will appear off on their monitor...as will every other photo.

[bohdank]

Did a bit of Google-ing, and it appears it isn't:

From everymac (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/faq_cd/imac-core-2-duo-aluminum-glossy-screen-pros-cons.html):

The article talks about Imacs and not the Cinema Displays that don't have the actual computer built into them.

[René Damkot]

The article talks about Imacs and not the Cinema Displays that don't have the actual computer built into them.

I know, but since the question was:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 20" imac displays are S-IPS?
To which you responded:
Yes, it's an IPS.

It seems you misread the question ;)

[Irreverent]

The article talks about Imacs and not the Cinema Displays that don't have the actual computer built into them.

I'm confused. You were talking about the imac:


Originally Posted by Siphanh
Thanks for the respond. I suppose I'll wait a few weeks and grab a new 20" iMac. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 20" imac displays are S-IPS?


Yes, it's an IPS.

[Siphanh]

I guess, the Cinema displays is the best Apple has to offer.

[Plant McCloud]

NEC LCD2490WUxi

If you want the best, go Eizo (http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/cg241w/index.asp).

...and yes, it is a drag. It shouldn't be so difficult to be certain of what you're buying.

Thank you for your reply and recommendation. Unfortunately, $1,050+ is a little out of my budget. I was hoping to spend a little less, perhaps $500 - $650 at most. To get a 24", perhaps I'll just have to settle for a VA panel.

[Plant McCloud]

Plant McCloud - what's your budget? Or what are you willing to spend?

I'm trying to be realistic. I know I can't get an IPS for the same price as a TN, but I really can't spend more than about $500-$650 USD for a 24" panel.

[Plant McCloud]

I had been reading review after review on 24" monitors and had figured that the Dell 2408WFP was a good buy. From what I understand it is a S-PVA monitor which I know have learned, thanks to this thread, is not what you really want in a monitor for editing digital images. Unfortunately my budget isn't $1,000+ for a new monitor so I am stuck

Yea, me too. Can't afford more. If you saved bookmarks while researching this monitor, could you post them? Things like how to make sure you get one with the correct panel inside, reviews, etc. Thanks.

[bohdank]

I know, but since the question was:

To which you responded:


It seems you misread the question ;)

My mistake.... sorry for being confused.... ;)

[bacchanal]

Thank you for your reply and recommendation. Unfortunately, $1,050+ is a little out of my budget. I was hoping to spend a little less, perhaps $500 - $650 at most. To get a 24", perhaps I'll just have to settle for a VA panel.

The closest thing to what you want is probably the 23" Apple Cinema Display. If you don't mind S-PVA, the Samsung 245T is often recommended.

[jdlloyd67]

Yea, me too. Can't afford more. If you saved bookmarks while researching this monitor, could you post them? Things like how to make sure you get one with the correct panel inside, reviews, etc. Thanks.
From everything that I've read the Dell 2408WFP is a S-PVA monitor so that's what you'll get if you order one.

[Art Rodriguez]

It's done in Photoshop.

A few links explaining it in the link from my sig ;)

Thanks Rene. I'll read up on those and see if I don't become more confused:D

I never realized how hard it would be to find a good monitor for post processing with a low budget as myself.

Art

[Kent Clark]

I was in the same confusion as Plant McC and jdlloyd. I had used a NEC monitor at work and really liked it but couldn't swing $1000+ for the wide screen I wanted.

I bought the Dell 2408 about three months ago for $600 and free shipping and overall I'm very happy with it.

Pluses: lots of connection options, built in USB ports and a card reader, gorgeous color, excellent design and adjustability.

Minuses: it's a very bright panel but it also has very deep blacks, if I try and reduce the brightness there is a noticeable loss of detail in dark areas. I've finally decided that having detail in dark areas is more important than excessive brightness and I've settled on a calibration that is pretty much full strength. In a dark room it's overpowering so I calibrated with lights on and always use it that way.

I bought the Spyder3 Pro for calibration but it doesn't have any luminance adjustment, if I were doing it again I'd go with the eye1 calibrator.

[bohdank]

The Elite version does have luminance control, I believe.

[ImRaptor]

70lbs Trinitron CRT beast.
Haven't found an LCD yet that can give me the same colour, brightness and resolution as my trusty beast. And at $200 the price was right.

[Plant McCloud]

70lbs Trinitron CRT beast.
Haven't found an LCD yet that can give me the same colour, brightness and resolution as my trusty beast. And at $200 the price was right.

And in wintertime they're just like having a space heater right there with you! :)

[bohdank]

I had a large Mitsubishi (Trinitron) for many years. I could never adjust it perfectly. I think it was incapable of rendering a straight line. Paid over $600 for it, new in about 8-10 years ago.

I hung on to it forever, not trusting LCD's. I finally bought one last week, a HP LP2065. Now I am wondering why I waited so long.

For one thing, I am wondering how many shots I deleted because I thought they weren't sharp enough. Strangly enough, the HP is so sharp that shots that looked sharp on the MB actually aren't and in some cases, some that looked slightly blurry/out of focus, aren't.

I'm an LCD convert, now, but like ahthing else, you usually get what you pay for.

I'm also REALLY glad for all the additional desk space.

[Dimethyl]

I found this thread on Google while researching the LP2065. I ordered one from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431061-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_EF227A8_LP2065_20_LCD_Computer. html) over the weekend and it arrived today. The details are:

Mfg. Part Number: EF227A8#ABA
Revision: GSM002
Manufactured: April 2008
LCD Part Number: LPL LM201U05-SLA1
Firmware Revision: REV.119

So it's an S-IPS panel :).

[bohdank]

btw... the software that comes with it does a very good job, for a software-only solution, calibrating the monitor.

Select "plugins" from the Display Assistant and not the other adjustment options. It will create a profile for the monitor.

[jdlloyd67]

I found this thread on Google while researching the LP2065. I ordered one from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431061-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_EF227A8_LP2065_20_LCD_Computer. html) over the weekend and it arrived today. The details are:

Mfg. Part Number: EF227A8#ABA
Revision: GSM002
Manufactured: April 2008
LCD Part Number: LPL LM201U05-SLA1
Firmware Revision: REV.119

So it's an S-IPS panel :).

Appearently that's what www.Flatpanels.dk (http://www.Flatpanels.dk) says...

HP LP2065 has a 20 inch 8 ms (g2g) S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U05) eller et 8 ms (g2g) A-MVA (AUO M201UN02-V6) panel.

[ekie]

anyone have experience with the Planar 26"?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824016084

it has the same S-IPS panel as the NEC ones minus the bells and whistles that NEC offers. wonder if thatd be a better buy than the dell 2408 .. not like ill be buying anytime soon but who knows! :D

[Morriss]

Appearently that's what www.Flatpanels.dk (http://www.Flatpanels.dk) says...

HP LP2065 has a 20 inch 8 ms (g2g) S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U05) eller et 8 ms (g2g) A-MVA (AUO M201UN02-V6) panel.


"eller et" means "or", in danish. Thus, the lottery aspect in buying this HP model. The A4# have all been S-IPS panels, as far as I can tell, while the A8# could be either S-IPS or A-MVA. There is a $100.00 price difference between the 2 model#, so I wonder if there is any difference in the specs other than panel types.

[cdesperado]

Just to add a little something to this... Ive been searching for a good quality 24" monitor for awhile now. I was very excited about the Dell 2408 but DO NOT buy this monitor!

Both versions of the 2408 (Dell 2408 A00 and the Dell 2408 A01) are not, in my opinion, suitable for anyone who wants truly accurate color. There are several serious problems with the 2408s posted in the Dell forums, so I won't go over all of that here. To summarize, there are uneven brightness issues with the panel, odd color shifts across the screen (particular with pinks in my case), as well as issues with VA washout.

The Samsung 24" uses the same panel as the Dell 2408 and reportedly does not have these kinds of problems. I can't say for certain yet because I havent personally tested it yet; however, I am planning to pick one up today or tmrw.

Also, just to add this to the mix... do NOT buy the Samsung 25.5" Syncmaster 2693HM. This is a gorgeous monitor and has a great display - it is perfect for a gamer or general computer user. However, it is not suitable for digital photography despite all of their marketing propaganda about "improvements" to their TN panel technology.

I decided to buy one of these a few weeks just to try it out. Like the Dell 2408, it is blindingly bright out of the box, but the colors looked pretty good. In fact, I'd even say they are fantastic.

The problems began after I calibrated, which I did a LOT, trying to find the sweet spot of this monitor. My conclusions:

1. Brightness has to be turned down to around 15 or you will basically lose any hope of detecting light greys to dirty whites. (Roughly Steps 0 thru 20 on the C1 Pro TIF checker).

2. Colors and screen brightness are pretty dang even across the screen. I was surprised, but they really are very very even. Solids and gradients all look great.

3. There is a MAJOR problem with displaying flesh tones. (This is what killed this monitor for me.) For some reason, the monitor tends to saturate reds and pinks a little more than it should. No matter what I tried, I could not get flesh tones to look accurate. They either looked too pink or looked muted and washed out. (Even my Dell 2001FPs are far more accurate than this monitor is.)

Like most people, I am reluctant to shell out more than $1000 for a monitor. However, I refuse to believe there isnt a VERY GOOD 24" monitor out there in the $600-700 price range.

Other monitors worth mentioning:
Doublesight 26"
Samsung 245T
Samsung 244T

There were two others I was looking at experimenting with, but I dont remember them off hand.

[cdesperado]

Oh... one other Con I forgot to mention about the 2693. The buttons are IMPOSSIBLE to use. This is hard to explain, but basically they used a very very VERY light color text to denote the buttons and on the gloss black of the monitor, you cannot see the text at all.

I have resorted to using a flashlight whenever I need to nav the monitor menu. My eyesight is very good, so this isn't an "age" issue Lol.

IMO, I think is a design flaw. Other monitors have the button text lit up or they use a white or grey color for the text. The Samsungs don't... I think the 245T also has this issue, but Im not certain. It wouldn't be a major issue since normally one doesnt mess with the buttons all that much after you get the thing calibrated, but after calibrating 40+ times I found it to be rather irritating.

[ekie]

^^^^ interesting info! .. it does seem pretty hard to find a good 24" LCD for a good price it seems, specially for photo editing without spending over $1k. ive heard good things about that doublesight 26" at a good price but its no longer available at newegg and i guess thrres a new model coming out?

[cdesperado]

Yes, the new Doublesight is the DS-263W. From early reports, its basically the same monitor with a different stand (improvements to height adjustments, etc).

[cdesperado]

Oh, PS - the DS-263W is an IPS Panel :-)

[ekie]

Oh, PS - the DS-263W is an IPS Panel :-)

i guess it should be available anyday now .. end of july was what i was able to find lol. hopefully its around same price as their previous model (or cheaper would be nice lol).

have u tried the DoubleSight DS-245W? its a S-PVA panel unlike the 26" version but seems comparable to the dell 2408 and cheaper. I wonder how that compares to the Dell 24"

[cdesperado]

Ok... I thought I would post this just because I found it interesting.

On Newegg.com, there are no search results for the Doublesight DS-263W (the new one that is supposed to be available at the end of July). However, the DS-263N is showing as in-stock, which is odd considering its been out of stock for a long time.

Then I clicked the image pictures... and sure enough, they are showing images of the NEW monitor!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185007R&Tpk=DS-263n

That may mean the new one really is coming very soon!

[cdesperado]

No, I havent tried that one yet, but I've been researching for six months and have spent the last month testing various monitors. I've tried out quite a few and have been continually disappointed. This isn't because I have unrealistic expectations either...

I'm actually using the Samsung 25.5" right now because this really is a cool monitor, unfortunately, I just can't edit my photos with it, which defeats the purpose of getting a new monitor. (My current monitors are old and the colors are finally starting to drift.)

Please bear in mind, Im not saying the colors on this monitor are bad. A casual user would not even notice the saturation, but I do notice it very much. It would be a great monitor for gamers, older folks who need a fat screen, and anyone who is using a monitor that needs a fat screen.

With games like COD4 and MoHA: Airborne, this Samsung freaking rocks my face off. I even bought Crysis just to see if I could MAKE this monitor lag and I couldn't notice any. (I'm not anal enough to do the hardcore lag testing in milliseconds... to me, I either notice it or I don't.)

I'm gonna hook it up to my cablebox this weekend bc Im thinking about keeping it as a TV. It's got an HDMI input.

[-Douglas-]

I was wondering if any of you friendly POTN family members could take a look at this (http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/microtek-201sd-flat-panel/1995-3174_7-31884602.html?tag=sub) 20", sold by these guys (http://www.microtekusa.com/201sd.html) and give us/me your thoughts.

[bohdank]

Hard to say anything... there is not enough info although it suggests that it is an IPS but for that price, I seriously doubt it. Can't find anything about Microtek monitors on any of the LCD panel info sites. Maybe someone else can.

Call Microtek and ask what manufacturers panel is in that monitor and the model number.

[cdesperado]

About the Microtek you just posted... one review says "Burning smell from flat-panel display "

That can't be good!

Ok, turns out that post was a misplaced comment. Turns out a gecko had crawled into the Power Unit of the computer (not the monitor), died, then got roasted. (At least, I hope it was in that order).
That still gave me a good laugh, so Im leaving it.

[cdesperado]

Ok, I just got back from my latest foray. It appears the Samsung 245T was not available at the store (even though they told me, oh yeah, we have that). Im going to try a few more stores this weekend.

What they had is the Samsung 2493 HM. I did some quick research on it.
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=computersperipherals&type=monitors&subtype=lcd&model_cd=LS24KIEEFV/XAA

Quick research notes:
TFT Panel Type (supposedly)
Full 1080p HD
10,000:1 (dynamic) contrast ratio
1000:1 contrast ratio (found this buried in text)
5ms response time
Note: Marketing text says "Fast response time" (Faster than what? doesnt say LOL)
Resolution : 1920 x 1200 (YAY)
Brightness : 400 cd/m²
Viewing Angle 160*
Inputs are D-sub, DVI, HDMI

As of March 08, people are referring to it as a noob, so that's interesting. I can't find any meaningul reviews though. Does anyone want me to buy this just to test on it? Price at BestBuy in Dallas was $480.

[-Douglas-]

That still gave me a good laugh,

:lol::lol::lol:

[Picture North Carolina]

The Samsung 24" uses the same panel as the Dell 2408 and reportedly does not have these kinds of problems. I can't say for certain yet because I havent personally tested it yet; however, I am planning to pick one up today or tmrw..

What is the model number of the samsung? Please let us know how it looks when you test it.
.

[cdesperado]

The Samsung 245T uses the same panel as the Dell 2408, but I havent found one yet to test. From other reviews I have dug up, it's getting pretty good marks from fellow shooters. Apparently Dell is doing _something_ to that panel that is causing problems.

I'm gonna be searching more in depth today and tmrw for a local store that has the Samsung.

[cdesperado]

The Dell 2408 and the Samsung 245T both use a Samsung S-PVA panel, by the way. I dont think I mentioned that.

I'm also planning to evaluate the LG 246WP.

[Picture North Carolina]

Cdesperdo,

All info and perceptions are appreciated. Many of us do not live in major metropolises where we can find advanced / pro panels on retail shelves. Most of the office supply and electronics retailers such as Office Depot, Circuit City, etc. no longer shelf these items. About a year or two ago they all began to replace the more expensive panels with the cheaper TN panels because that's what the majority of the consuming public wants.

[cdesperado]

You are very welcome. The search has definitely been frustrating for me. I've been looking for a LONG time. I like the Lacie and Eizo monitors, but they are just so expensive that Im reluctant to shell out the money for them without exhausting all other options. Here in DFW, I have access to pretty much every major retailer out there, but they tend to only carry 2-3 types of 24 inch monitors. The only 24+ I have seen are the Samsung, LG, and Hanspree.

As far as actually _getting_ the monitor, I would suggest NewEgg. Fast shipping and great company to work with for anything computer related.

The TNs are just cheaper to make and the overwhelming majority of users would never notice the difference. They certainly arent performing color calibration and other color tests, etc, which digital shooters will clearly want (need) to do.

For example, the Samsung panel I am using right now is a TN panel, but this is a GOOD monitor. I am seriously debating keeping this and using it on one of the PCs that I dont do photography work with or using it as a TV, but I will probably end up taking it back. If I want a TV, I may as well get the Samsung 26" TV, so I havent decided yet.

[Picture North Carolina]

The TNs are just cheaper to make and the overwhelming majority of users would never notice the difference. They certainly arent performing color calibration and other color tests, etc, which digital shooters will clearly want (need) to do.

That's exactly the point. Retail shelf space is premium. The 8-bit panels were more expensive, but customers didn't understand why and didn't purchase them. Understandable - office workers, gamers, and internet addicts don't have the same monitor needs we do.

That's why forums such as potn and the users in them are so important. Testing / selecting monitors gets complicated when it all has to be done on a UPS truck. Forum photogs trading info is invaluable.

Let us know what you find out. I personally would like to get a good panel at the lowest price possible (of course!) but understand I may have to pay up to $700-$750 or so to get one. That's a lotta bucks, and why making the correct decision is so important. Thanks.

[cdesperado]

This is just personal opinion, and I wouldnt have said this six months ago, but having a 24" monitor DEFINITELY is a plus. Prior to this little foray, I have been using two very good 20" LCD monitors, which several years ago seemed like a HUGE leap forward (coming off of two 17" CRT's and a 19" LCD that was a PoS.)

Coming off those 17s, the 20" seemed HUGE. Now that I have used these 24s, I wonder why I waited so long. These are very very useful. It makes digital editing MUCH easier and gives me a much bigger workspace. Having now used a 25.5, I am definitely going to go with a 26" monitor. For some reason, the 26 feels much bigger than the 24. I can't explain why or how, but it does. The 30" monitors are almost too big and to get a really good panel, you need to drop some major coin.

I accepted that I will be spending $700-800 each for my next monitor set, BUT, these monitors should last several years so it works out for me.

[wallybud]

Not sure what all the abbreviations in this thread mean and I know nothing about the technology of monitors but I have been looking at the

Color Edge CG241W LCD
It has 12 bits
1920x1200 resolution
178 degree viewing angle
24in widescreen
It also reproduces 96% of adobe RGB
and a contrast ratio of 850:1

its also $2400 but you get what you pay for

www.eizo.com

looks like a beauty anyone have any experience with it

[nodoubt]

Not sure what all the abbreviations in this thread mean and I know nothing about the technology of monitors but I have been looking at the

Color Edge CG241W LCD
It has 12 bits
1920x1200 resolution
178 degree viewing angle
24in widescreen
It also reproduces 96% of adobe RGB
and a contrast ratio of 850:1

its also $2400 but you get what you pay for

www.eizo.com (http://www.eizo.com)

looks like a beauty anyone have any experience with it
best of the best........what else do you need to know ????

[Littlefield]

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

[Az2Africa]

Not sure what all the abbreviations in this thread mean and I know nothing about the technology of monitors but I have been looking at the

Color Edge CG241W LCD
It has 12 bits
1920x1200 resolution
178 degree viewing angle
24in widescreen
It also reproduces 96% of adobe RGB
and a contrast ratio of 850:1

its also $2400 but you get what you pay for

www.eizo.com (http://www.eizo.com)

looks like a beauty anyone have any experience with it

That's the one I use. You will not regret spending the money. It's a whole different world.:) PM me if you want more info.

[Picture North Carolina]

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

Thanks for the link. Very useful list.

Does anybody know about the two at the bottom:

Philips 230WP7NS, Size: 23", Resolution: 1920 x 1200, Price Range: $900

Planar PX2611W, Size: 26", Resolution: 1920 x 1200, Price Range: $800, Note: Uses an H-IPS panel, a newer IPS tech that improves upon S-IPS.

Both decently priced.

[wallybud]

wow glad to have hit the nail on the head! I am going to be going to the brooks institute next year and when I take loans out Im going to try and grab that Mac Pro desktop along with the Coloredge (along with selling my 40D for the new 5DII ;))

Africa - is the clarity of the screen just so intense that it hurts?! haha

[Az2Africa]

It is clear, but what you notice the most is the smooth gradual tone transitions on things like skin in protraits. If you made a good image, you will see it perfectly represented. It also has the lookup tables in it and software for Spyder2,3 and iOne calibrators. It does not use the video card for colors.

[cdesperado]

Eizo (and Lacie) are the cream of the crop in monitor world. But anything over about $1,000 is going to be beyond the reach of the many shooters. Where did you see a price of $2400? Im seeing more like $1700.
http://www.itechnews.net/2007/06/17/eizo-coloredge-cg241w-lcd-display/

Eizo is the ferrari of the monitor world, so if you can afford it, go for it!

[wallybud]

Just a quote from a like 9ish month old magazine or w.e haha, im sure the price is way down by now. I see 17 and 18 as well

[cdesperado]

Ok, so I (reluctantly) returned the Samsung 25.5" Syncmaster 2693HM today and came home with a Samsung 24" T240HD. Please note that there is a Samsung T240 (non HD) that is also available, but I assumed the more expensive model would be a better monitor. This monitor was not on display in the store and I found very few reviews of it.

Please note that this monitor is probably intended for peolpe who intend to use it as a TV and PC monitor or Game Monitor and PC Monitor. It has a built in tuner for TV and does support 1080p. This is a TN panel.

Initial impressions:
1. Be prepared to buy a longer DVI cable. This one is short (like 4 feet max..?)

2. There is a red "bar" that spans the bottom of the display that looks like it would light up. It doesn't. That's actually a good thing bc I think it would be very distracting, but now Im wondering why they even bothered to add it and market this as "Rose Black". Whatever. It's ugly and it shouldnt be there. (In most Asian cultures, red means luck or happiness, but in Western culture red signifies danger.)

3. The monitor is bright out of the box, but nowhere near as blinding as the Dell 2408 or the Samsung 2693.

4. Colors look pretty good, but I haven't measured anything yet.

5. The menu buttons are on the side, not the front, which makes it a pain in the ass to see the monitor AND nav the buttons. (Samsung... its about Usability people!). The menu itself is a little confusing, but they always are when you first play with a monitor.

6. Inputs: 2 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 VGA. However, the 2nd HDMI is hidden inside a small door on the left side of the monitor (as you are looking at it left side), which means to use it, the door would always be open.

7. All of the other inputs are located on the back, which makes them very easy to get to (as opposed to being placed on the bottom, which Ive always found to be a PITA).

8. The bottom third (to the bottom half) of the screen is <i>noticeably</i> brighter than the top half of the screen. I don't see how an average consumer would not notice something like this and be troubled by it. (To be honest, this is really throwing me off and I already know I will definitely not be be keeping this monitor.) I'm tempted to box this up and go back and get the 2693 and just hang on to that for awhile.

9. Flesh tones look better than they did on the 2693, but still do not look quite right.

10. There is no height adjustment and no angle adjustment. However, it does swivel side to side.

Without testing this monitor further, I can already tell you... as a photographer, you don't want it to for PP work.

[Picture North Carolina]

Ok, so I (reluctantly) returned the Samsung 25.5" Syncmaster 2693HM today and came home with a Samsung 24" T240HD. Please note that there is a Samsung T240 (non HD) that is also available, but I assumed the more expensive model would be a better monitor. This monitor was not on display in the store and I found very few reviews of it.

Please note that this monitor is probably intended for peolpe who intend to use it as a TV and PC monitor or Game Monitor and PC Monitor. It has a built in tuner for TV and does support 1080p. This is a TN panel.

Initial impressions:
1. Be prepared to buy a longer DVI cable. This one is short (like 4 feet max..?)

2. There is a red "bar" that spans the bottom of the display that looks like it would light up. It doesn't. That's actually a good thing bc I think it would be very distracting, but now Im wondering why they even bothered to add it and market this as "Rose Black". Whatever. It's ugly and it shouldnt be there. (In most Asian cultures, red means luck or happiness, but in Western culture red signifies danger.)

3. The monitor is bright out of the box, but nowhere near as blinding as the Dell 2408 or the Samsung 2693.

4. Colors look pretty good, but I haven't measured anything yet.

5. The menu buttons are on the side, not the front, which makes it a pain in the ass to see the monitor AND nav the buttons. (Samsung... its about Usability people!). The menu itself is a little confusing, but they always are when you first play with a monitor.

6. Inputs: 2 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 VGA. However, the 2nd HDMI is hidden inside a small door on the left side of the monitor (as you are looking at it left side), which means to use it, the door would always be open.

7. All of the other inputs are located on the back, which makes them very easy to get to (as opposed to being placed on the bottom, which Ive always found to be a PITA).

8. The bottom third (to the bottom half) of the screen is <i>noticeably</i> brighter than the top half of the screen. I don't see how an average consumer would not notice something like this and be troubled by it. (To be honest, this is really throwing me off and I already know I will definitely not be be keeping this monitor.) I'm tempted to box this up and go back and get the 2693 and just hang on to that for awhile.

9. Flesh tones look better than they did on the 2693, but still do not look quite right.

10. There is no height adjustment and no angle adjustment. However, it does swivel side to side.

Without testing this monitor further, I can already tell you... as a photographer, you don't want it to for PP work.

Thanks for your effort. I, for one, look forward to any additional reviews you might do.

Even if you had evaluated the colors to be better, to me the tuner would kill it. A photog looking for a good post processing monitor may never use the tuner. I have no idea how much cost that would add, but I would imagine adding a HD tuner to any device would probably add $100 or more to the cost. That's money wasted on a function that may never be used.

When I purchased the monitors I currently use, I looked at but rejected a well-reviewed HP 21" monitor that had a good 8-bit panel (forgot the model #) solely because it had built in speakers. Speakers couldn't add much more than 25 bucks to the cost, but it was still wasted money. Why would I use silly 3" monitor speakers when I have a 5.1 system?

[cdesperado]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. The only difference between the HD version and non-HD version (from what I could tell) was the non-HD had a 20,000:1 DCR (which means nothing to us) and the HD had a 10,000:1 DCR. (Why the HD version had a lower DCR, I dont know, but it did.) And the price difference was exactly $100. :-)

There may have been a few other differences, but they were minor. It was essentially the same monitor in the exact same case. I evaluated the colors a little bit, but I usually like to let the monitor run for 20-30 hours of normal use before I do too much testing or calibrating. With that monitor, 2-3 hours was enough. I returned it to the store.

Oh, the brightness level of the 25.5" Samsung was also rated higher than the 24" (300 to 200 I think?), but they were still both much brighter than they needed to be.

[lui-même]

I have a 600 CAD budget and I want to buy an I-SPS panel.
I searched the Internet for a HP LP2065, the one who come with 2 panels.
Considering what Bacchanal said
Bacchanal
HP LP2065 - 20" LCD at 1600x1200 resolution.

Part# EF227A4#ABA = S-IPS Panel
Part# EF227A8#ABA = AMVA Panel

I’ve found a considerable difference between the 2 panels, somewhere around 150$.
I wrote to HP Canada customer support asking their opinion regarding which of the 2 monitors has an I-SPS panel.
Here is their answer:
The features for the HP LP2065 (ef227a8) 20" Flat Panel Monitor and the HP LP2065 (ef227a4) 20" Flat Panel Monitor are the same. The only difference is the place of purchase. The difference in panels is very small and rarely noticeable. The quality between the two is exceptional. Some of the shared features include:

- 20.1" display
- 1600 x 1200 @ 75 Hz (analog), 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz (digital) resolution
- Two VGA to DVI-I and two DVI-D to DVI-I (cables included)
- Brightness up to 300 nits
- Contrast ratio up to 800:1
- –5° to 25° vertical tilt, ±45° swivel, pivot/landscape rotation
- 13 cm height adjust
- Warranty - Limited three-year warranty parts, including backlight, and on-site labor or 48 hour direct unit replacement.



Sincerely,

Debra
HP Presales Representative
Hewlett-Packard

My question for you guys who have the HP LP2065 with I-SPS panel is it ok if I buy the one with Mfg. Part Number # EF227A4#ABA?

[bohdank]

I bought the A8 early last month and it came with the IPS panel. Depending who you buy it from, ask if on the outside of the box there is a sticker (there are more than a few), that says "REV.GSMnnn". If the number starts with "GSM" it is an IPS panel, if "AMA", it is the MVA panel.

That's all you need to know. I am very happy with my A8. It also comes with an excellent software plug in to calibrate the colors. Works so well that I doubt I will bother buying a hardware calibrator now.

[lui-même]

Did you buy it from Montreal?

[bohdank]

Tigerdirect.ca..... took a chance since everybody seems to have been receiving IPS panels this year. $493.98 cdn delivered to Montreal.

[Poaceae]

Back when I was looking for a monitor I asked Amazon to put me on the list for a 24" Lacie. To day I got notice they have one and more on the way. Passing this link along for anyone looking. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LH52C/ref=pe_11480_10347100_emwa_email_title_1

[Picture North Carolina]

Here's a new alternative (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=569657) for those looking for a good performing, low cost IPS monitor.

[Ingsy]

I'm looking for a new monitor, but after reading this thread a question instantly comes to mind: How come you can set your graphics card to work in 32-bit colour space, if some TN monitors (i.e. the cheaper ones you get with PCs I guess?) only supports 6-bits?

[jmik26]

I have the Samsung Syncmaster 245t and can verify that its a great monitor. I have had 0 problems with it so far. After some ambient lighting issues resolved it calibrated very nice also. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=530648&highlight=245t)

[garbidz]

I took a shot at a refurb Syncmaster 245T at about 653 dollars (delivered here) instead of getting a new one at 1180 dollars.

30-day money back guarantee.
Cannot edit photos on the Mirai screen I got from the supermarket. Nobody can tell what is black and what is white as the angle of viewing is so narrow.
Which again explains why it was for sale here at a reasonable price.

It is getting harder and harder to find excuses for not making beautiful pictures...

[jmik26]

You can get the 245t brand new at B&H for $650 and free shipping. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/525155-REG/Samsung_245T_SyncMaster_245T_24_Widescreen.html) :o

[garbidz]

free shipping for continental USA only
leaves me about 150 dollars on the positive
not much...

[pigtailpat]

I got a dell 2709W - it's beautiful. I will have to probably calibrate it, but it blows me away in terms of being able to clearly see the whole photo the way it was meant to be seen. Very helpful on these creeping into the late forties eyes (alright, I'm already in the late forties :D).

But now, I need a bigger wacom tablet :rolleyes:

Pat