ST-E2

[Jim Larson]

Hi.

A simple question: Is the ST-E2 a worthwhile gadget despite its relatively high cost?

My rig: A 10D, A 550EX, a 420EX, a bunch of lenses. I have been playing with wireless flash for about 2 months (since I got the 420EX) -> and I have been pleased. No, I don't earn a penny on photography. Photography is just an expensive hobby. . .and yeah, I have figured out how to get good results out of 10D ETTL :)

My shooting: Candid party shots. Walk around and take pictures of my friends. (yeah, I do landscapes and tourist stuff, but not with dual flash units!)

Why I want a ST-E2:

1) When shooting wireless ETTL, I find that with the 550EX on camera I frequently bounce the beam even with the second flash placed remotely. Sometimes, I really think positioning the 550EX off the camera (either closer or further from the subject, depending on situation) may yield better results.

2) With a ST-E2 attached, the camera would be a bit less intimidating. Also, when I do FEL (10D uses ETTL after all), it would be a bit less distracting to the subjects if the preflash does not originate from the camera.

3) The ST-E2 seems really cool.


The main disadvantages of the ST-E2 in my mind are;

1) 2CR5 battery. Gah. Why could it not be standard rechargable AA like I use in the flash units?

2) Working outdoors, the range of the ST-E2 is reportedly much less than a 550EX master unit. Not that I have ever done outdoor wireless flash (yet), but I suppose I would be better off buying a second 420EX, and using the 550EX as a master with the flash off when working outdoors.

3) The ST-E2 seems expensive. More expensive than a 420EX . . .but I somehow don't see buying a third flash unit.

Any thoughts for others who have used the ST-E2?

Thanks!

[CeeCee]

You forgot the option the transmitter to focus in almost pitchdark - custom setting. A feature which is great if you need that function.

I believe that the transmitter have a longer reach than that of the 550EX

I have the transmitter an was amazed with it on-camera - to guide my 580/550 setup. Also it can trigger my studio flashes - and THAT last bit is VERY nice. See mummy - no cables.

But I agree on the battery part - that is stupid, cause they are pretty expensive - and no rechargable ones.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'd get another 550 or 580 instead....

[sjprg]

I find my ST-E2 invaluable. (I shoot square dances and ball room dancing). I have two 550s and a 420 that I set up around a room in bounce mode. As I walk around the ST-E2 is much less conspictious, and when i shoot the control signals are IR and not visible so the subjects are not even aware I have shot the frame. With the flashes bounced they are hardly noticible when they fire. Also the ST-E2 projects a set of vertical and horizonal focusing lines on the subject that the camera sees even in very low light and produces a very accurate Auto focus. Granted the batteries are a dumb move but they do last a long time. Im so happy with this arrangement I plan to pick up more used 420s as I find them at a reasonable price.

[robertwgross]

The main disadvantages of the ST-E2 in my mind are;
1) 2CR5 battery. Gah. Why could it not be standard rechargable AA like I use in the flash units?

The power consumption of ST-E2 is extremely tiny, so Canon chose a lithium primary battery that would supply this tiny power for a long time. A standard rechargeable AA battery would have been a poor choice for this, partly because of self-discharge. Flash units are high power devices.

I shot a wedding one time using the ST-E2, and afterwards I put all of my gear away. Three weeks later, I was getting my gear out again for the next wedding, and I discovered that the ST-E2 had never been turned off. I tested the battery, and it seemed fine, so I put it back into the ST-E2 and haven't looked back. That was a year ago, and the thing still works.

---Bob Gross---

[Jesper]

I have a 550EX, 420EX and ST-E2. I haven't had it for very long, but I'll try to comment on your comments....

The main disadvantages of the ST-E2 in my mind are;
1) 2CR5 battery. Gah. Why could it not be standard rechargable AA like I use in the flash units?Well, the battery was not very expensive and I've read from other people who have the ST-E2 that it lasts a very long time (depends on how heavily you use it, but the battery lasts months).
2) Working outdoors, the range of the ST-E2 is reportedly much less than a 550EX master unit. Not that I have ever done outdoor wireless flash (yet), but I suppose I would be better off buying a second 420EX, and using the 550EX as a master with the flash off when working outdoors.I haven't tried to use it outdoors yet.
3) The ST-E2 seems expensive. More expensive than a 420EX . . .but I somehow don't see buying a third flash unit.I paid around US$ 200 for it, it's indeed not cheap... as an alternative you could use the Canon Off Camera Shoe Cord 2, but it's ofcourse a bit more limited than the ST-E2.

[Jim Larson]

Guys: Thanks for your responses! I am still pondering (mostly to see if Canon puts out any goodies at PMA.. . )

I am pleased that so many people have positive responses. I guess I just have to get over the battery thing. . .last I looked these batteries are like $10!

Cyberdyne: Yeah -> I hear you on buying a 550 or 580. The 580 is just ridiculously expensive relative to the 550 -> and I have neither a 20D nor a 1D-II. For remote flashes, a third unit would have it's merits, but I really wouldn't need anything with more oomph than a 420ex.

[DaveG]

Hi.

A simple question: Is the ST-E2 a worthwhile gadget despite its relatively high cost?

My rig: A 10D, A 550EX, a 420EX, a bunch of lenses. I have been playing with wireless flash for about 2 months (since I got the 420EX) -> and I have been pleased. No, I don't earn a penny on photography. Photography is just an expensive hobby. . .and yeah, I have figured out how to get good results out of 10D ETTL :)

My shooting: Candid party shots. Walk around and take pictures of my friends. (yeah, I do landscapes and tourist stuff, but not with dual flash units!)

Why I want a ST-E2:

1) When shooting wireless ETTL, I find that with the 550EX on camera I frequently bounce the beam even with the second flash placed remotely. Sometimes, I really think positioning the 550EX off the camera (either closer or further from the subject, depending on situation) may yield better results.

2) With a ST-E2 attached, the camera would be a bit less intimidating. Also, when I do FEL (10D uses ETTL after all), it would be a bit less distracting to the subjects if the preflash does not originate from the camera.

3) The ST-E2 seems really cool.


The main disadvantages of the ST-E2 in my mind are;

1) 2CR5 battery. Gah. Why could it not be standard rechargable AA like I use in the flash units?

2) Working outdoors, the range of the ST-E2 is reportedly much less than a 550EX master unit. Not that I have ever done outdoor wireless flash (yet), but I suppose I would be better off buying a second 420EX, and using the 550EX as a master with the flash off when working outdoors.

3) The ST-E2 seems expensive. More expensive than a 420EX . . .but I somehow don't see buying a third flash unit.

Any thoughts for others who have used the ST-E2?

Thanks!


I use a 550 as the Master and a pair of 420's as the slaves. I thought about the ST-E2 but decided against it for a variety of reasons. First it's performance in triggering the slaved flashes is inferior to the 550, even inside. Another shooter in town has the ST-E2 and he's always bitterly complaining how badly it works.

If you add another 420 you'd added another flash to your collection. A third light is a third light. I know that this sounds redundant but a second 420 will allow you do do things that you haven't been able to until now, and that would be to use the second 420 as a C group flash. With the C group you can have that flash overpower the mainlight and it's great for background or hair light.

The second 420 could also be used as another B group flash so the two "B's" (shall we say) output the same. I did some shots before Christmas where I put one 420 on a light stand on each side of the subject and used the 550 as the Master. I wanted to use a lighting ratio of about 3:1 and still needed fill light. Since fill light must be within 20 degrees of the camera being in a bracket on the camera is just fine. I got really good lighting from two sides of this lady and of course filled the shadows.

You also will need four more AA batteries to power up the second 420. I use NiMH batteries and they've been great. Now those extra AA's will give you spare batteries if you need to use them in the 550. I don't use the second 420 every day, but it is reassuring that I can swap batteries out of it if I need to, something that can't be done with the ST-E2. I was unaware of the expensive batteries required for the ST-E2 and I'd want to have a spare for THAT. I really like the idea of interchangability. I can swap the batteries from my 10D to my 20D if I needed to, and this is at least as important with the flash setup, I think.

I don't quite buy the anonymity of shooting with the ST-E2 at parties. I'd be concerned about where the slaved flash was placed and whether it was going to be a flare problem. I do a lot of corporate cocktail party shooting and I just couldn't use a second flash. The clients usually ask for me to shoot "candids" of the guests, but that's only what they think they want. People at cocktail parties stand in triangles so if I literally shoot them as candids, I'll get the back of someone's head, someone putting a bit of sandwich in their mouth, and one person looking OK. That's the reality of it.

What I do is I approach them, identify myself and ask if I can shoot their photo. Then I get them to line up so that I can see their faces and they are smiling. THAT is what the client really wants. My point is that they know I'm taking the picture, I could hardly be more obvious and a ST-E2 wouldn't help with that even if I could figure out how to use two flashes in such a fluid shooting environment. If the subjects are just your friends then they know what you are up too, so who cares.

[Jim Larson]

If you add another 420 you'd added another flash to your collection. A third light is a third light. I know that this sounds redundant but a second 420 will allow you do do things that you haven't been able to until now

This is very true. If only the ST-E2 cost LESS than a 420EX. . .my logic would work fine. But in many ways ADDING a 420EX is cheaper and does provides more capability.

The clients usually ask for me to shoot "candids" of the guests, but that's only what they think they want. People at cocktail parties stand in triangles so if I literally shoot them as candids, I'll get the back of someone's head, someone putting a bit of sandwich in their mouth, and one person looking OK. That's the reality of it.

OK. So it's not just my lack of skill. Everyone has this problem :) My keeper rate on "candids" is hideously low.

My point is that they know I'm taking the picture, I could hardly be more obvious and a ST-E2 wouldn't help with that even if I could figure out how to use two flashes in such a fluid shooting environment. If the subjects are just your friends then they know what you are up too, so who cares.

Very true. They know what I am up to. They expect it. They notice when I pull TWO flash units out of the bag. I don't *really* scare anyone anymore.

Hmmm. Stuff to think about.

By the way: what is "flare"? I suspect I know, based upon what I have seen in unsuccessful shots, but I want to be sure. Is "flare" what happens when you have an oject (or worse, a subject) too close to the slave unit and it catches a disporpotionate amount of light? I heard someone suggest velcroing black strips on the slave units to eliminate this problem (by keeping light away from the offending objects)-> and it sounds like a good idea.

[dphoto]

Also it can trigger my studio flashes - and THAT last bit is VERY nice. See mummy - no cables.Hey CeeCee, I tried this with my studio lights--Alien Bees, just got them this week! :D--and it didn't work. My idea was to put my 550EX in manual mode (so no ETTL pre-flash) and then use the ST-E2 to trigger it. This would be much lighter than using the 550EX on my camera... that thing gets heavy! However, the ST-E2 always chooses ETTL mode and fires my strobes too soon. Is there any way to get around this? Until then, it's either wires or a heavy flash for me!

Thanks!
-Deva

[DaveG]

This is very true. If only the ST-E2 cost LESS than a 420EX. . .my logic would work fine. But in many ways ADDING a 420EX is cheaper and does provides more capability.



OK. So it's not just my lack of skill. Everyone has this problem :) My keeper rate on "candids" is hideously low.



Very true. They know what I am up to. They expect it. They notice when I pull TWO flash units out of the bag. I don't *really* scare anyone anymore.

Hmmm. Stuff to think about.

By the way: what is "flare"? I suspect I know, based upon what I have seen in unsuccessful shots, but I want to be sure. Is "flare" what happens when you have an oject (or worse, a subject) too close to the slave unit and it catches a disporpotionate amount of light? I heard someone suggest velcroing black strips on the slave units to eliminate this problem (by keeping light away from the offending objects)-> and it sounds like a good idea.


Flare is caused when the light - either a flash or the sun - is close to the subject. Sometimes (and obviously) you can see what appear to be reflections as the light bounces off each element in your lens. Sometimes though flare shows up as just the gross loss of contrast.

I do use black cards that attach to the slaved flashes to prevent flare. When you use a card like this the card is referred to as a "flag". You "shade" a lens and "flag" a light.

For outdoor wedding group shots I like to top/back light them so the subjects aren't squinting into the sun. In order to do that I use a bellows lens shade that extends to just this side of vignetting. If I didn't use this shade I'd get flare.

Email me directly and I'll send you some shots with multiple flashes and some others (sadly) with flare. dgrandy@grandyphoto.com

[Valki]

However, the ST-E2 always chooses ETTL mode and fires my strobes too soon. Is there any way to get around this? Until then, it's either wires or a heavy flash for me!

Thanks!
-Deva

Have you tried to use the FEL first? In this way you first get the preflash and live the other stroves to recicle before the real flash.

If it works could you tell me? I´m thinking about buying the ST-E2 but only if it works with other studio strobes, actually I already ordered it but I´m still on time to cancel it if it doesn´t work.

Cheers.
Valki

[Jim Larson]

oh ouch. . .the ST-E2 can trigger optical triggers on strobes? ewwwwwh.

[dphoto]

Have you tried to use the FEL first? In this way you first get the preflash and live the other stroves to recicle before the real flash.Hey Valki, OK I just ran some tests and here is what I found. First of all, the ST-E2 has lights that are covered with red plastic used for AF. These lights don't affect the strobes at all. Then there is also a red light behind a darker panel... kind of like on a TV remote... I don't know if this is IR or "near-IR", but here's how it works. Whenever you take a shot with the ST-E2, that IR light goes off two times (I think... I suppose it could be more times but it seems like two), very quickly back to back. If this light is within line of sight of the strobe's slave cell, then the stobe pops twice. I don't get a proper exposure from those pops, but I do get some of the light in my shot (i.e. there is more light in the image than if shot with the strobe off). If I use FEL, the strobe pops once when I set FEL, but then it still pops twice when I take the shot. So, by itself, the ST-E2 does not seem able to control any strobes.

However... I did try this test, and it worked just fine. I also have a 550EX, so I set that as a slave and put it on manual mode. I set the power level to 1/128. Now, if the ST-E2 is not in line of sight of the strobe's slave cell, then it can be used to pop the strobe via the 550EX. In fact, it works beautifully. So, I positioned the 550EX so that the flash portion was directly facing the strobe's slave cell, and then I used a piece of paper to block the slave cell from me and my camera (and the ST-E2). This actually worked. The ST-E2 signalled the 550EX without interfering with the strobe, and then the 550EX caused the strobe to fire. If you had a multi-strobe setup, you would only need the 550EX to get one of them to fire and then the whole set of them would go off.

So there you have it. I don't know why I couldn't get this working the other day when I tried it, but I just tried it several times and it worked every time. If you have any more questions on this, just ask and I'll see what I can do!

-Deva

[Jim Larson]

Huh. Obviously the ST-E2 puts out light in the right part of the spectrum to trigger the optical slaves. Bummer. As for the pulses from the ST-E2, those are easy to explain: Command for preflash, followed by command for "group A", followed by command for group "B". Interesting.

Regarding Flare: Oh how silly of me. The "classic" definition. I have not really had that problem yet for a simple reason: I have been careful with slave placement to keep it out of the frame. Of course, that doesn't stop me from occassionally hitting a secondary object with waaaaay too much light.

[Tom W]

oh ouch. . .the ST-E2 can trigger optical triggers on strobes? ewwwwwh.

Like this:

http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/image/38616435.jpg


My friend apparently had his flash in some kind of optical slave mode (older Nikon flash) and it triggered when I took the snapshot.

[Tom W]

Huh. Obviously the ST-E2 puts out light in the right part of the spectrum to trigger the optical slaves. Bummer. As for the pulses from the ST-E2, those are easy to explain: Command for preflash, followed by command for "group A", followed by command for group "B". Interesting.

Regarding Flare: Oh how silly of me. The "classic" definition. I have not really had that problem yet for a simple reason: I have been careful with slave placement to keep it out of the frame. Of course, that doesn't stop me from occassionally hitting a secondary object with waaaaay too much light.

Now I wonder, is the output from the ST-E2 triggering optical slaves or the output from the preflash of the slaves themselves?

BTW, my image of the flash going off was taken with my 550EX. I doubt if it was the preflash that triggered that, since it would have been done by the time the shutter opened. Interesting.

[dphoto]

As for the pulses from the ST-E2, those are easy to explain: Command for preflash, followed by command for "group A", followed by command for group "B".That makes total sense. Thank you!

Now I wonder, is the output from the ST-E2 triggering optical slaves or the output from the preflash of the slaves themselves?The output from the ST-E2. It can trigger the optical slaves even when the slave unit (550EX in my case) is turned off.

-Deva