90 degree bounce = crap at close range?

[smorter]

I do feel bad wasting time with topics covered ad nauseum but I think there is a bit of a twist with this post (hopefully...please flame me if not:) ):

The more I use bounce flash, the more I am convinced that bounce flash is terrible for close range shots of people

The noses and foreheads are always nuked, whereas the eyes, mouths, neck, bodies are always underexposed. This is a well documented problem, and often photographers use the white index card for a bit of fill, but that sometimes causes an even greater overexposure for the nose and forehead.

Maybe it's my 40D's fault, I don't find it as big an issue on my 400D whereas the 40D constantly blows the highlights and is way too contrasty, so contrasty I'm thinking of buying a really crappy lens with poor contrast...to offset the contrast I'm currently getting.

Any thoughts of the efficacy of the 90 degree ceiling bounce?

I'm thinking of experimenting with holding a second flash in my hand and using wireless ETTL or something because it's extremely frustrating dodging and burning like a fool for every photo in Photoshop.

(The strangest thing though is that the 400D seems to handle flash way better and holds onto highlights far better than the 40D...very odd...so odd I've stopped using my 40D as my primary camera for when I'm indoors and using bounce flash)

I generally try and shoot with FEB but it doesn't really do anything for the contrast between the nose/forehead and eyes, mouths, neck etc.

[PacAce]

If you're getting hot spots on the face with bounce flash, then that means that you are getting some direct light (not bounce) from the flash lighting your subject. Have you tried turning the flash head towards one side of the subject or the other (or point it towards the wall) so that you get some side lighting on the subject instead of the overhead lighting that tends to form shadows around the eyes and under the nose and chin?

[smorter]

I was thinking bouncing onto the wall behind me would be ideal, unfortunately most venues in Melbourne seem to have obscenely coloured walls and only the roof is usually white or grey or a neutral colour.

Thanks for the interesting point about the hot spots, I'll have to watch myself next time, maybe that's the reason why I'm getting horrid results :(

Thanks for the side lighting tip, will definitely try that out

[elysium]

I do feel bad wasting time with topics covered ad nauseum but I think there is a bit of a twist with this post (hopefully...please flame me if not:) ):

The more I use bounce flash, the more I am convinced that bounce flash is terrible for close range shots of people

The noses and foreheads are always nuked, whereas the eyes, mouths, neck, bodies are always underexposed. This is a well documented problem, and often photographers use the white index card for a bit of fill, but that sometimes causes an even greater overexposure for the nose and forehead.

Maybe it's my 40D's fault, I don't find it as big an issue on my 400D whereas the 40D constantly blows the highlights and is way too contrasty, so contrasty I'm thinking of buying a really crappy lens with poor contrast...to offset the contrast I'm currently getting.

Any thoughts of the efficacy of the 90 degree ceiling bounce?

I'm thinking of experimenting with holding a second flash in my hand and using wireless ETTL or something because it's extremely frustrating dodging and burning like a fool for every photo in Photoshop.

(The strangest thing though is that the 400D seems to handle flash way better and holds onto highlights far better than the 40D...very odd...so odd I've stopped using my 40D as my primary camera for when I'm indoors and using bounce flash)

I generally try and shoot with FEB but it doesn't really do anything for the contrast between the nose/forehead and eyes, mouths, neck etc.
I know what you mean. (below)

http://photos-265.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v253/42/99/506975265/n506975265_1243951_1706.jpg

I tend to have the flash head bounced from the ceiling but aimed sightly behind my head since it gives me a more even coverage.

[Vetteography]

Have you tried any of the various diffuser products available? Maybe a mini-softbox (or even a Fong Bong). If so, did they help at all?

Seems like something that limits the light going straight up and redirects a bit forward or at least softens the light a bit would help.

[AlanU]

Try a joe demb flipit with front diffuser. That'll bounce and thow some light forward.

If you want less light just flip the white card backwards in a matter of seconds. Want more light tilt the card forward. Again seconds. If that doens't cut it play with the FEC.

I was in a pitch dark restaurant at an engagement party. My flipit work flawlessly with my gear.My 580 head was tilted 45 degrees angle. Exposure was perfect with no shadows in the eyes and no blown out noses.

[smorter]

Thanks guys I think I'll experiment more with the slightly behind head bounce Elysium mentioned as well as try some homemade diffusers. What deters me from the diffusers is the extra attention unfortunately, but it might be inevitable if the quality doesn't improve because I've had a gutful with fixing this up (to some extent) in PP (Great shot of the lady btw!)

lol! fong bong! great name Vetteography!

Alan thanks, I've heard good things about the Demb flipit, might give that a whirl too

[dpds68]

Sorry for the n00b question but can someone explain "90 degree ceiling bounce" ?

[Vetteography]

Sorry for the n00b question but can someone explain "90 degree ceiling bounce" ?

I assumed he meant 90 degrees from horizontal (ie straight up)

[PacAce]

I assumed he meant 90 degrees from horizontal (ie straight up)

Or, another way to look at it, is to set the head 90 degrees up from its normal straight-ahead position.

[dpds68]

Oh I see , and since my flash head does not swivel I was even more lost .

Here is one of my first shots with my Flash this was bounced up on the ceiling.
Untouched out of the Camera taken with my 50mm 1.8

http://i37.tinypic.com/2gwym12.jpg