Not convinced at all about a new 5d mkII

[bluefox9er]

That there will ever be a 5d mkII or whatever people want to call it??


Canon released 2 DSLRs(1000d/450xsi) aimed at the amature/first time buyer market ( ok, you're bound to get the occasional sap who buys a 450xsi after owning a 400d that thinks they have 'upgraded' but it's essentially the same camera)
2 cameras launched literally days apart aimed at the same sector whilst totally ignoring the consumer ff sector could suggest that Canon will be happy to leave the 5d as it's stand alone consumer FF camera and pour research and development into the more lucrative amature/pro markets whilst concentrating on the XXd product line as the serious amature/ in betweener market.
Theres nothing in my opinion to suggest that Canon have any urgency whatsoever to provide it's customers with a consumer grade FF DSLR apart form the antique 5d.

[ulrikft]

Right, canon would gladly let nikon's d700 take over that market share completely.

[Chris Dana]

This has to be one of the first times I've seen the 5D referred to as "antique."

[cyrn]

Right, canon would gladly let nikon's d700 take over that market share completely.

Dpreview link (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1000d/page34.asp)

Cameras are not just the product of engineering, they are also the result of marketing considerations - creating a product people will want to buy at a price they find attractive. The result is that many cameras in this market segment are shorn of some of the features of their big brothers in the name of 'product differentiation.' It's a reality that can upset some people (often the owners of more expensive cameras), but we, like the marketers, need to consider whether the removed features will have an impact on the buyer the camera is aimed at.

Unfortunately, it might be the only way to make Canon sit up and listen to photographers rather than marketers. :rolleyes:

[rexspangle]

This has to be one of the first times I've seen the 5D referred to as "antique."

Well most people seem to use the term dinosaur at least an antique isn't as old so we are all in luck...

Canon does seem to be a little behind the ball on releasing a 5dmkII for us impatient people.... However remember for the longest time Nikons users complained that they didn't have a FF camera. People assumed Nikon had no intentions of ever releasing a FF camera and they did. I guess the real question is why did Nikon take so long to release one after Canon did? and.. why does Canon appear to be taking so long to replace the 5d? Let's all hope they have something new up their sleeves... but on the flip side if they aren't releasing one then that really isn't Canons problem it is ours.

[Chris Dana]

Well most people seem to use the term dinosaur at least an antique isn't as old so we are all in luck...

Canon does seem to be a little behind the ball on releasing a 5dmkII for us impatient people

That's it exactly. People who think they know what Canon is doing (i.e., the various threads and posts about how Canon is "afraid of Nikon," "were caught with their pants down," and (my personal favorite) "are having to redo the 5D successor with the release of every new Nikon camera") have no more clue what they're talking about than those who spout off new rumors from "their nameless inside sources."

The pearl clutching is amusing though. For some, it's almost as if their world has come to and end and their cameras are complete crap now. Who cares that the 5D is still one of the best cameras out there, IQ wise, it's all about how Canon is "behind the times."

why does Canon appear to be taking so long to replace the 5d?

Because it could be that they decided to put the 5D on a 3 year replacement cycle from the start, like the do with 1 series cameras and they are doing things as their timeline dictates and not by their competitors?

[Dragos Jianu]

Well most people seem to use the term dinosaur at least an antique isn't as old so we are all in luck...

Meh, I'd rather refer to it as Vintage. Like a fine wine. ;)

[fumanchewable]

whatevah. the 40D is as close to the camera i reluctantly gave up to go digital... the nikon F80.

canon 40D = digital nikon F80

me no want 5DMkII.

[bluefox9er]

This has to be one of the first times I've seen the 5D referred to as "antique."

and so is a Mercedes 1960 gulwing classic...the fact that the 5d is OLD in terms of technology dosn't mean its incapable, hence my reason for guessing it will sit in their pro-sumer line up until it dies a natural death...

[Chris Dana]

and so is a Mercedes 1960 gulwing classic...the fact that the 5d is OLD in terms of technology dosn't mean its incapable, hence my reason for guessing it will sit in their pro-sumer line up until it dies a natural death...

That's an invalid comparison. The 5D is still selling quite well and isn't old in it's technology, really. Nikon isn't light years ahead; if anything, they're just a tiny bit ahead in IQ. A camera that still puts out the pictures that it does is not technologically old. If it was, you'd be seeing people dumping their 5D's left right and center on this and other forums. People I know aren't in any hurry to get rid of theirs.

I'm willing to bet you're very wrong with that sentiment, though. Whether it's the 5dMkii or the 3D/6D that is released at Photokina, I highly doubt that Canon will just let it "die a natural death," as you posit.

Canon knows exactly what it's doing, and just because they're not releasing products at the rate you (and others) think is necessary doesn't mean that they're behind the curve. They've been at this business for a long time.

[ohnnyj]

Theres nothing in my opinion to suggest that Canon have any urgency whatsoever to provide it's customers with a consumer grade FF DSLR apart form the antique 5d.

Just as there is no indication that Canon will replace the 5D, there is also nothing to suggest that Canon will not replace the 5D.

Everything is speculation and hearsay unless it comes from Canon themselves.

They are a smart company and as Chris Dana pointed out, "at this business for a long time." They are not late in releasing a 5D successor, in fact, if they release in September / October they will be right on schedule. If we do not have a new camera by the end of the year than one could begin to believe they are overdue.

[kevEOS]

They are not late in releasing a 5D successor, in fact, if they release in September / October they will be right on schedule. If we do not have a new camera by the end of the year than one could begin to believe they are overdue.

+1

:cool:

[JBaz]

:( I've been wanting the new 5D for so long... I've given up on it and might spring for the 1D variant. Really don't want to spend that kind of cash though.

[cyrn]

Canon knows exactly what it's doing, and just because they're not releasing products at the rate you (and others) think is necessary doesn't mean that they're behind the curve. They've been at this business for a long time.

Just as there is no indication that Canon will replace the 5D, there is also nothing to suggest that Canon will not replace the 5D.

Everything is speculation and hearsay unless it comes from Canon themselves.

They are a smart company and as Chris Dana pointed out, "at this business for a long time." They are not late in releasing a 5D successor, in fact, if they release in September / October they will be right on schedule. If we do not have a new camera by the end of the year than one could begin to believe they are overdue.

It's just sad for Canon supporters that Canon went from pole position with a very wide lead to 2nd, not forgetting 3rd (Sony) steadily catching up. Canon should have stretch their lead when competitors are behind. But they chose to milk their own supporters instead.

The race is still underway though, everyone is hoping Canon to climb back up to first. But it could be like F1 race, everyone is already pushing their own limits, any harder push and the car might spin out of control. Maintain lead is much easier than regaining it.

[cyrn]

:( I've been wanting the new 5D for so long... I've given up on it and might spring for the 1D variant. Really don't want to spend that kind of cash though.

I was contemplating the 1D too... but now the D700 tips the equation towards it.

[CanonXtiDude]

august will include the release of the D3X which is 24.2 megapixels when will canon reply

[rexspangle]

august will include the release of the D3X which is 24.2 megapixels when will canon reply

they already have:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=15710


Just because a lot of us can't afford it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[VTSHEP1]

As a public company Canon makes decisions to increase shareholder value, not to make the best FF camera at this level. Part of making a profit is stopping churn in this product line, especially when your B-C product has a "system" that creates a switching cost!

A couple of my thoughts.

-I can see the need for secrecy during product development...secrecy so competitors dont find out. However, once the competition has beaten you, churn is happening, and if you are close to a product release, holding back info is a bad business decision. A simple acknowledgement and timeframe for a response would be enough to keep most waiting.

-The "schedule" Canon is on is an antiquated way of doing things. If they are actually holding back releases for the big trade shows...that is the old way of marketing...pre-internet.

-The current 5D is old, it is beat by competitors and most of the current Canon line in one feature set or another. A lot of people here who defend it as such a great camera own one and my guess is they are justifying their equipment. I own one, and I will admit, it is a good camera and takes good pics but there isn't much if anything you can do with a 5D that you cant do with a 20D, and sometimes less (FPS). It is old, it is not the best, and i I cant wait to upgrade...to something. There are additional features in other cameras that I WOULD USE regularly if I had them.

That being said, maybe Canon has a knockout in cue and are maybe a little too overconfident to placate us.

[cyrn]

-The "schedule" Canon is on is an antiquated way of doing things. If they are actually holding back releases for the big trade shows...that is the old way of marketing...pre-internet.

-The current 5D is old, it is beat by competitors and most of the current Canon line in one feature set or another. A lot of people here who defend it as such a great camera own one and my guess is they are justifying their equipment. I own one, and I will admit, it is a good camera and takes good pics but there isn't much if anything you can do with a 5D that you cant do with a 20D, and sometimes less (FPS). It is old, it is not the best, and i I cant wait to upgrade...to something. There are additional features in other cameras that I WOULD USE regularly if I had them.



totally agree! especially the highlighted.

[bluefox9er]

Right, canon would gladly let nikon's d700 take over that market share completely.


as of right now, isn't that **precisley** what they have done? even more so when you consider the number of people who have either migrated to Nikon or seriously considering to do so in the abscence of either product or announcement form canon to develop it's 'pro-sumer' range?

I hope to god that there will be a new 5d mkII or whatever varient but im just observant of the fact that as of yet canon have made absloutley no suggestion that its a product line they wish to support ( or discontinue, for that matter)

[JBaz]

I'm not willing to switch to Nikon to be able to get a D300/700 mainly because of the investment in glass I currently have. Besides, by the time I'd get rid of everything and switch over, the new 5D would probably come out...

[dragulaz]

:( I've been wanting the new 5D for so long... I've given up on it and might spring for the 1D variant. Really don't want to spend that kind of cash though.

If you've been wanting the "new" 5D for that long, perhaps you should have considered the "old" 5D from the start. You realize that in only a couple of years there will be a new 1D.

[bomzai]

If you've been wanting the "new" 5D for that long, perhaps you should have considered the "old" 5D from the start. You realize that in only a couple of years there will be a new 1D.
Oh, but there is a big difference between 1D and 5D.

Any 1D can be "the last camera you ever buy", because it already has all there is to it - superb AF and outstanding rigidity.

What changes is just "digital film", and 21Mpix for 35mm sensor is pretty much as high as technically possible (not to mention that each subsequent 5Mpix increase means less and less - it was a big deal to go from 11 to 16, lesser so to go 16->21, and 21->26 in two years won't mean much at all).

Even if we look at ISO perf. That'll probably be the area of biggest improvement in future. But 3200 is quite usable already and you rarily need to go that high anyway, on the other hand the differences in noise at ISO 800 (very useful ISO level) will hardly be noticable between current and future versions.

[frankdatank]

don't worry... be happy... buy all the Nikon new babies..

[shuut]

Looking at flickr canon is still miles ahead in the consumer market, with XTi and XT leading the chart and 40D slowly eating into their share. It's going to take a lot more for Nikon to convert so many consumer level users who's invested in a system (free body with purchase of an AF-S could help... just a thought.). It will be unwise for Canon to disturb their planned product cycle, we all know how well that will go...

http://www.flickr.com/cameras

well guess I drifted further than the OT... I meant, Canon's not worrying about Nikon and FF might be just gravy for them...

[Dragos Jianu]

Nikon's only problem right now is the entry level market. 1000D/450D/40D vs D40/D60/D80. No competition there. Frankly I'm simply amazed at how much damage they've managed to inflict on the pro market. Will they have the sheer muscle power to refresh their entire lineup this year ? If they do launch the D65/D90, and if they are 1000/450/40 killers then they will cut off the bulk of Canon's sales. That's a big IF. Grab your popcorn. We'll have a major showdown in this year :)

[hai]

the 5d broke new grounds by offering full-frame to amateurs. think the replacement will take the next leap by offering medium format? only problem will be in the lens line up

[nicksan]

Damn Canon. Hurry up and release the damn 5D MKII already so we can stop all these threads...and start up new 5D MKIII threads. Yay!;):p:rolleyes::cool:

[Dragos Jianu]

to no particular poster
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3816/79171313qo4.jpg

[ulrikft]

some of us have time to take pictures AND bitch about it :P

[elysium]

This has to be one of the first times I've seen the 5D referred to as "antique."
Didn't you know, the 5D is ancient now and no longer can keep up with the new cameras? :lol:

I mean it cant even microwave popcorn! Who wants a camera that cannot do that!

[JBaz]

5D is still badass and I'd love to get one, but if the new 5d mkII's come out, that would be badass x2. And who wouldn't want to get a nice used 5d for sub 1k? :)

[AdamJL]

You know, for an "antique" camera, it fairs pretty well in this 450D review, where it's pitted against the xxxD series, and, more importantly, Nikon's D300/D700

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XSI/XSIA.HTM

IMO, it still rules the mid-range FF roost.
Weather sealing and AF would just make it the perfect camera.

[bluefox9er]

lets not kid ourselves...the 5d isn't even in the same ballpark as a nikon D700.

its not even in the same gene pool!

[CoolToolGuy]

lets not kid ourselves...the 5d isn't even in the same ballpark as a nikon D700.

its not even in the same gene pool!

Yeah, it's tough for Ni*on when they're on the wrong side of the tracks. . .

:lol::lol::lol:

Have Fun,

[nicksan]

Really? You got any proof?

I thought not...

lets not kid ourselves...the 5d isn't even in the same ballpark as a nikon D700.

its not even in the same gene pool!

[bluefox9er]

Really? You got any proof?

I thought not...


you really want to square the 5d with the nikon d700 feature to feature??

[CoolToolGuy]

you really want to square the 5d with the nikon d700 feature to feature??

I love the anticipation times. . .

What's next - "Let's step outside and discuss it. . . "? :rolleyes:

By the end of August, By the end of August. . .

Then we can start arguing about back-focusing, why no in-body IS, and how come the built-in MP3 player doesn't have controls like the iPhone. . . :lol:

Have Fun,

[markyb]

well the d700 is today at its lowest price of £1689 .
im sure canon wont want to out price its self against this with the mk11
unless its features are out of this world

[bluefox9er]

I was in Jacobs today and they were selling the 5d body only for £1390..

lol..no ones saying step outside, but to say a 3 year old 5d is in the same league as a nikon d700 is sooooo fanboyish..

IF canon decide to continue to support the ( growing ) ff consumer market, they realkly need to come out with somehting that's going to challenge the Nikon d700 in *features* as well as price. *IF* they decide to support the consumer ff market AND get it right, they could sell a LOT of 'L' lenses :-)

[Dragos Jianu]

lol..no ones saying step outside, but to say a 3 year old 5d is in the same league as a nikon d700 is sooooo fanboyish..


not any more fanboyish then :

the 5d isn't even in the same ballpark as a nikon D700. its not even in the same gene pool!

I think what he was trying to say is that you were grossly exaggerating. In any real world circumstances, shot side by side the old spartan would easily give the shiny "latest and greatest" a good run for it's money. And lets not even mention the studio ;)

[Permagrin]

you really want to square the 5d with the nikon d700 feature to feature??

I'd certainly square it IQ to IQ. and I like the new nikons but since it's all about image IQ and the 5D has some of the best ever, I think it would not only hold it's own but have a good chance of winning the battle.

As for features, even the 40D has better features since it's newer...but lets be real, we don't sell photographs based on camera features...rather the photo IQ.

[CoolToolGuy]

IF canon decide to continue to support the ( growing ) ff consumer market, they realkly need to come out with somehting that's going to challenge the Nikon d700 in *features* as well as price. *IF* they decide to support the consumer ff market AND get it right, they could sell a LOT of 'L' lenses :-)

Chill - we will know by the end of August (because the timing is all about Christmas) . . . :)

Have Fun,

[scokar]

lets not kid ourselves...the 5d isn't even in the same ballpark as a nikon D700.

its not even in the same gene pool!

perhaps there have been secret nightly rendezvous between Canon and Nikon, that would sure mix up the gene pool :eek:

[glawhon]

Well, according to Ken Rockwell, who shoots with them both, not even the new Nikon D3 can touch the IQ of the ancient 5D...

If you need the speed or the features, that's one thing. Many of us don't. I use my 5D for travel and landscapes, but not sports. I've never wished it could focus faster, shoot more fps, or do anything else more than it does. I actually have mixed feelings about a new model, because I'm still quite happy with this one and I know I'll buy the MkII or whatever else it is called just because I'll want it, not because I'll really need it.


I'd certainly square it IQ to IQ. and I like the new nikons but since it's all about image IQ and the 5D has some of the best ever, I think it would not only hold it's own but have a good chance of winning the battle.

As for features, even the 40D has better features since it's newer...but lets be real, we don't sell photographs based on camera features...rather the photo IQ.

[Permagrin]

please don't ever tell anyone Ken Rockwell and I EVER agreed on anything! :lol::lol::lol:

[ulrikft]

not any more fanboyish then :



I think what he was trying to say is that you were grossly exaggerating. In any real world circumstances, shot side by side the old spartan would easily give the shiny "latest and greatest" a good run for it's money. And lets not even mention the studio ;)

unless it is rain.. or you need fps.. or quicker af.. or or or... ;)

[ohnnyj]

...but lets be real, we don't sell photographs based on camera features...rather the photo IQ.

+1!

[markyb]

the one thing most people are forgetting is, the credit crunch is biting.
and so if canon out price the 5d it could have big impact on its sales.
oh i know most of us would rather buy a camera than pay the bills or buy food
but in reality. it could be launching at the wrong time
and if the nikon is better priced it could impact on people who maybe looking at a ff camera especially if its a newcomer or a nikon user who was maybe looking at switching to canon

[danielyamseng]

I predict there wont be revolutionary features.